Who has a narcissistic mother?

[GeorgiaGirl160]

Dear OP,

 

First, hugs.  I've been there.  I am 45 with a diagnosed NPD father and enabling mother, and I mean enabling to the point of psychosis.

 

Ex.  Last year, Dad was in the hospital, and had one of his rages.  Mom is angry with the hospital because she's sure they gave him some "bad medication" that made him act that way.  I've been hearing similar excuses since I was little.  I'm an only child.  She's even blamed the time he tried to kill himself and us by crashing the car we were all riding in on an "accidental overdose". 

 

I moved five years ago and left no forwarding info.  My mother has my cell number, and I meet her for lunch occasionally, but it never goes well. 

 

I am also a Christian, and I agonized over the "honor your parents" commandment for years.  I've spent a lot of time talking with my pastor and my small groups. 

 

Here's where I've arrived: I'm following my pastor's instructions: pray for your parents from a distance.  Some people in the Christian community will pressure abused wives, husbands, and children to reconcile out of "respect", but I do not believe this is Biblical where abuse continues.  We are called to try, hard, but when abusers are unrepentant, I believe it's perfectly appropriate to walk away. 

 

I found "The Five Languages of Apology" by Gary Smalley and "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend (actually every book they've ever written) tremendously helpful.

 

I have two kids now, ages 7 and 9.  They've never known my parents.  We finally went no contact when my oldest was a baby.  I dreaded for years what they would think of our decision to keep them away from my parents for their own safety.  They physically endangered my baby once, and that was enough for me. 

 

When my children were old enough to ask me where *my* parents were and why they'd never met them, I told them the truth in an age-appropriate way.  They understood, and have supported our decision.  I have no doubt in my mind that contact with my parents would have been emotionally and financially harmful, and possibly physically dangerous.  No good would have come of it. 

 

As a Christian, I felt a lot of inapproprate guilt for a long time about cutting them out of my life.  That has finally changed, mostly.  :-)  I think we all want to love our parents, and it does hurt when they don't love us.  I'd be lying if I said their behavior hasn't affected me, but I am very happy I got out.  Putting my kids and my husband first was absolutely the right thing to do.

 

Hugs and prayers.  Good luck to you.  Please do read those books, and consider seeing a Christian counselor *without* your parents. 

 

GA Cub Mom

 

 

[foxbridgeacademy]

Not my mom but her mom is definitely NPD. She ignored her children to the point of causing serious health issues.  As an adult my mom tried to have some kind of relationship with the woman.  Her mother tried to control her and when that didn't work she tried to take me from my mom, which also didn't work.  So they went years hardly speaking.  I was the only reason they communicated.  She loved having me over.... all the time. I spent almost every weekend and vacation with her, she'd pick me up from school and we'd do things she liked to do.  We visited her friends a lot so she could show me off (I was a cutey).  When I was 10 my mom tried to get my g-mother to take my sister who was 4 for a afternoon too.  She wouldn't do it, she only wanted me.  My mom let me decide if I wanted to stay without my sister, I chose not to.... after all I was the only one who was allowed to be mean to the kid.  I didn't spend any time with my g-mother for years. When I was 25ish I went  to visit, to see how she was doing, she was still so wrapped up in herself she couldn't take 5 minutes to sit down and talk to me.  I gave up, my mom makes excuses for her and I understand but I can't do it.  The woman has treated her so badly through neglect and favoring my aunt that I consider her a lost cause.  My mom on the other hand is great.  She made a lot of mistakes and does have trouble showing affection but she loves us and gave ALL of her attention, still does in fact.

[rmtzc2009]

My MIL is narcissistic.  It manifests itself with her being controlling, manipulative, acting very child like to try to get her way, lying and or embellishing events to make them fit her story causing much hurt and division.  For 10 years we tried various methods to deal with her all under the idea of we have to find a way, we are told to honor our parents.  We tried being overly cooperative and kind, we got frustrated and put up boundaries, we tried ignoring bad behavior and treatment, we tried talking to her kindly & in love and at times my husband was frustrated and he got angry with her.  Over the course of the 10 years we have seen two family counselors.  The first counselor my MIL liked until they saw her behavior and wanted to help her with it.  She ditched that counselor and found another whose advice was all we needed was love and we could not work on things with my MIL if we weren't spending more time with her.  We decided not to continue with that counselor-they had no realistic idea of what the situation was like.  Lastly a 1 1/2 years ago we got counseling from our church Pastor.  He helped us (most importantly my husband) see that my MIL was being very destructive in our lives and that it was his duty to leave & cleave and stand in honor for his family.  (meaning me and out kids).  He counseled my husband how to assert himself with his parents and but in heavy boundaries- we have no contact with them.  My MIL & FIL met twice with our Pastor.  Interestingly enough, our issues aside our Pastor saw in her what we deal with.  She was aggressive jumping up during her meeting with him, expressing that she has never ever done anything that she could possibly have to say sorry -everything is done in love, and ultimately completely twisting her meeting with the Pastor.  The letter also blamed the Pastor for keeping our families apart and said things were fine before he got involved.  It got to the point that for his protection he could not meet with MIL & FIL privately any longer because of her lying about what he said.  He advised them he would need to have another elder present going forward.  We were not surprised that the Pastor received an email from MIL & FIL saying they do not wish you continue counseling with him but they will be pursuing a family counselor.  Our pastor warned us that she is a great actor and will probably be able to convince many that her stories are true.

 

I do believe many things can and should be tried before going to no contact.  My MIL had no boundaries.  During times of us not communicating with them she would go to the kids school to deliver private messages to them, She has and still does believe and verbally expresses it to everyone she knows that I have brainwashed her son and that he is not at fault for this I am.  She had started involving the children and she always lied about it.  We sheltered our kids from all that was going on which is making our time apart now very difficult as they just do not understand what went wrong.  I have been called names, my dh aunts (who live out of state) have contacted my aunt and my best friend trying to see if they would "help me" realize the errors of my ways.  My MIL finds great strength in numbers so we are often attacked by various family members.  My dh says his mom was always this way and his father is completely passive.  In the past dh has had many good conversations with FIL but it all changes once FIL goes home and talks to MIL.

 

So to answer how we are dealing with the "honoring" her part.  We have put in place healthy boundaries.  At this time because she feels she has done nothing wrong and we are wrong we can not possibly work on things with her.  The boundary is that we are not having any contact with her however if at any time she changes her mind she can contact our pastor to begin counseling with him again.  We did extend a list of things that we could have done better and apologized for them.  Even upon that they were firm everything they have ever done has been in love. The time when mil put her hands up towards my neck to choke me and I threatened to call the police didn't "feel" loving but we clearly have a different idea of love then they do.

 

Despite the horrible last 10 years If she truly was sorry we would forgive her and move forward.  To me that is a heart that is loving.  I have also learned so much through this process.  Getting outside help with our Pastor helped me tremendously.  I questioned myself constantly to the point that I didn't know how to act around other people.  Was I really as horrible as they say I was, was I not fun like they said, did I not smile enough like they said?   I realized I had absorbed all the negative things they had said and I partly believed them.  It took the Pastor seeing with his own experience that my MIL was aggressive, she spoke very ill of  me and my parenting choices, she clearly expressed only wanting to reconcile with DH & grandkids, lying about things the Pastor did & said, and she was excessive with communication with the pastor expecting him to reply immediately to all her notes and or requests.   Through the loss of my husbands entire extended family I've learned to never hear one side of a story and form judgement.  I now know more than ever that their are two sides to every story and for me to have any input that is helpful I need to know the full story.  Otherwise I remain pretty neutral on things.

 

This has gotten far longer than I anticipated so I'll close with this.  My heart breaks for anyone who has someone in their life who is a Narcissist.  The hurt they cause and the self doubt they create in people is very real and can be hard for others to see since they can be so manipulating.  My encouragement for those in this situation is to never make decisions out of guilt, protect yourself and your family, and to put boundaries in place that allow for healthy contact and if with all that they still find ways to to hurt & try to control then no contact may be needed.  Our hearts break for not having them in our life but the "them" that we want in our life is a fallacy.  We do have to except people for who they are, not who we desire them to be, and in our case we just can't allow the ugliness and hurtfulness to continue any longer. We would even settle knowing they despise me but if they could be civil -so far they cannot.   We pray for them every day and we wait on the Lord now, it's in his timing.  We feel a great sense of peace and are constantly amazed that our life has no more drama.  My DH and I are beginning to love each other again and enjoying our time together and with our kids.  Before the MIL took up all our time and energy.  

 

I pray for anyone who is dealing with this that you would find a path to give you peace.

 

Blessings,

Melissa

[Anne in CA]

I love that you point out that your MIL was never sorry for anything. IME, (my step dd's mother is probably Borderline Personality Disorder) forgiving such people is generally not biblical in the sense that they NEVER REPENT. They blame other people, deny what they have done, make excuses when truly caught out, but they do not repent, so forgiving them is not really the issue. Protecting yourself is.

[gardenmom5]

 I also put away pictures of them and anything else that brought back bad memories.

oh, the pictures.  I had to get rid of my grandparenst 50th anniversary picture.  it was *that* smile.  she's been dead 20 years, and *that* smile can still make me shudder.

 

I am also a Christian, and I agonized over the "honor your parents" commandment for years.  I've spent a lot of time talking with my pastor and my small groups. 

 

btdt.  some of the things I came to were: not allowing grandmother to continue to abuse me was "honoring" her. . refusing to play her games allowed me to treat her better than she merited. (though it did tend to irk her.) letting go of the hurt so I didn't have a heart filled with animosity was "honoring". it allowed me to see her good points (she was hardworking, etc.) and even have some compassion for things that probably happened in her life that this was the person she became (still her choice), but . . . that didn't mean I needed to have more than 15 minutes of phone contact with her a week.  (as long as she behaved.  if she didn't, I said goodbye and hung up.  the quickest was three minutes.)

 

Not my mom but her mom is definitely NPD. 

 

most people underestimate how much damage a NPD grandparent can do because you don't live with them.  my mother was so beaten down - she couldn't protect us.  the most she did was move away from the same neighborhood to about 30 minutes away.  while it was an improvement, it wasn't far enough.

I love that you point out that your MIL was never sorry for anything. IME, (my step dd's mother is probably Borderline Personality Disorder) forgiving such people is generally not biblical in the sense that they NEVER REPENT. They blame other people, deny what they have done, make excuses when truly caught out, but they do not repent, so forgiving them is not really the issue. Protecting yourself is.

I believe forgiveness and reconciliation are two different things.   we forgive becasue we need to let go of the hurt and heal the damage, and those two things are intertwined.   and most important of all - we must get them out. of. our. head!   God will forgive (or not) whom He will. that kind of forgiveness also requies us to have faith in God - that He will be eminently fair. we forgive so we can live free of the mind games and pavolvian responses. we can forgive, and still have no contact.

 

we can't be reconciled to someone who is incapable of sincere remorse for abuse they inflicted.

 

In my experience, my forgiving someone doesn't depend upon their remorse.  there was a stage in my healing/forgiveness process where I used to contemplate what would happend if she recognized what she did, confessed all and came to me and begged my forgiveness? not much would have changed.  I'd still have the damage and hurt.  healing me was what I wanted, and i needed to forgive in order to let it go.  that was something that was not dependent upon her.

 

Learning about NPD allowed a major piece that was hiding away to be exposed and things just fell into place. it was an enlightening moment. 

[I.Dup.]

I think the "just laughing it off" plan doesn't do justice to how vile these people are. Their entire existence is to hurt and be cruel to others. If just laughing it off were truly possible, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

 

Wouldn't this be more along the lines of sociopath??

 

I suspect both of my parents are narcissistic in that they think only and primarily of themselves- and always have. They are always the victim of everything, everything they do is primarily for themselves with no real thought of others.

 

But they are not mean-spirited or vile. They're too wrapped up in themselves to go out of their way to hurt others, and they truly are not vile people. Just very, very selfish.

[LaxMom]

Wouldn't this be more along the lines of sociopath??

I suspect both of my parents are narcissistic in that they think only and primarily of themselves- and always have. They are always the victim of everything, everything they do is primarily for themselves with no real thought of others.

But they are not mean-spirited or vile. They're too wrapped up in themselves to go out of their way to hurt others, and they truly are not vile people. Just very, very selfish.

No. NPD isn't about being self-absorbed. There are plenty of self-absorbed people around who are not pathological. NPD goes beyond that to manipulation, damage, and destruction.

The way I describe the way my mother interacts with the world is that all other people are simply cardboard cutouts on her stage. We exist as simply props for the play that only she knows and controls the script to, and if the props try to arrange themselves differently or be what they are instead of what she has decided, she has a meltdown and has to destroy them.

[Alicia64]

Wouldn't this be more along the lines of sociopath??

 

I suspect both of my parents are narcissistic in that they think only and primarily of themselves- and always have. They are always the victim of everything, everything they do is primarily for themselves with no real thought of others.

 

But they are not mean-spirited or vile. They're too wrapped up in themselves to go out of their way to hurt others, and they truly are not vile people. Just very, very selfish.

 

Hmmm. You've given me something to think about. I honestly thought that many people with NPD could be quite mean spirited. But you could be right. I've always wondered if my dad veers into sociopath. My mom isn't cruel, but can be mean in that she's very, very catty towards me, her friends, relatives etc.

 

Does "catty" count as mean? But you're right: I could always laugh my mom off much more easily than my scary dad.

 

This makes me sad. Because my golden child sister is much more like my dad: down right mean. I never thought of her as a sociopath. My young son sure realized that she wasn't right though. From the beginning.

 

Alley
 

[gardenmom5]

Wouldn't this be more along the lines of sociopath??

 

I suspect both of my parents are narcissistic in that they think only and primarily of themselves- and always have. They are always the victim of everything, everything they do is primarily for themselves with no real thought of others.

 

But they are not mean-spirited or vile. They're too wrapped up in themselves to go out of their way to hurt others, and they truly are not vile people. Just very, very selfish.

there are different degrees.  some are far worse than others.

 

I have a vivid memory of Kalanamak commenting upon this subject, while those of us with NPD relatives were sharing our experiences.  her comment has stuck with me. 

"those are the minor cases".

 

(she saw the ones who were locked up in the state mental hospital.)

[I.Dup.]

Hmmmm. I'm not sure then.

 

I will add re: siblings or this running in families, my sister is very narcissistic. Almost as much as my dad, but not quite (that could be because she does have the maternal instincts toward her kids). But the thing is, she didn't grow up with him. Yet she is his spitting image.

[Alicia64]

Hmmmm. I'm not sure then.

 

I will add re: siblings or this running in families, my sister is very narcissistic. Almost as much as my dad, but not quite (that could be because she does have the maternal instincts toward her kids). But the thing is, she didn't grow up with him. Yet she is his spitting image.

 

Wow! Your sister didn't grow up with your dad? But she's just like him?!

 

I always thought that my gold child sister is NPD because of the environment. Meaning she's like my dad because she was raised by my dad. You think there's a genetic component?

 

Alley

[gardenmom5]

my grandmother could be very mean spirited.  and she definitely took pleasure in the discomfort/humiliation of those she went after.

[I.Dup.]

Wow! Your sister didn't grow up with your dad? But she's just like him?!

 

I always thought that my gold child sister is NPD because of the environment. Meaning she's like my dad because she was raised by my dad. You think there's a genetic component?

 

Alley

 

Yep. She's my half sister, and she lived with her mom, only visiting during the summer (and my parents worked, so they were hardly around when she was home). She is JUST like him. Down to the way they chew ice, the way they adjust themselves in their seat, the way they eat, and definitely the narcissistic component.

[G5052]

there are different degrees.  some are far worse than others.

 

I have a vivid memory of Kalanamak commenting upon this subject, while those of us with NPD relatives were sharing our experiences.  her comment has stuck with me. 

"those are the minor cases".

 

(she saw the ones who were locked up in the state mental hospital.)

 

Yes, I remember that too. It was some comfort, as odd as that sounds.

 

Mine never harmed me physically as an adult (although that was threatened), and being many states away meant no more visits.  It was easy enough to block calls and throw away letters.

[gardenmom5]

Yes, I remember that too. It was some comfort, as odd as that sounds.

 

Mine never harmed me physically as an adult (although that was threatened), and being many states away meant no more visits.  It was easy enough to block calls and throw away letters.

 

I told that to my sil (mil is nuts) and while she laughed, she doesn't want to hear that her mother is a "minor case". 

unfortunatley, our neice-in-law overheard and thinks it's because we are blowing everything out of proprotion and making mts of molehills.  (dnil is about the only one in her generation that thinks mil is "just" how old ladies are.) I later clarified with my sil that the "bad" cases (among others) are parents who try to physically harm their children to feed their own ego.  (though could that make munchausen by proxy an extreme case of npd?) or otherwise do things to control their kids.

[DawnM]

This was my mom's mom as well.  To this day her children say she was mean.  Apparently my grandmother's mother was even worse.  Mean women who verbally tore down everyone in their path.

 

I guess in comparison, my mother is better, but not by much.  She is much nicer to people outside of her own family.  To us she is unkind by her manipulation, verbal accusations, and pretty much everything else on the list.

 

Dawn

 

 

my grandmother could be very mean spirited.  and she definitely took pleasure in the discomfort/humiliation of those she went after.