I need some kind of long-term plan for my dd.

[....]

Ok, I basically stopped teaching my 11 yro (turns 12 in a few weeks) a couple of months ago.  Looking back on it, it was gradual...as in we would homeschool for a few weeks and then I would give her a week or two "off".  Now, I'm just done.  I don't know if I'm doing the right thing here and thinking I need some sort of long-term plan for my daughter.

 

She went to ps for a year (loooong time ago - back in 1st grade) and she was tested there by a gifted specialist.  She scored in the top 1% of whatever test they used.  I don't think I want to have her tested again, because I don't think it will help.  I also can't afford any special programs, etc.  And our public schools are beyond awful, so that's not an option.  

 

I've been doing math with her and that's it.  She spends hours researching, reading, making things, setting up plants outside (she's really interested in botany), trying to hybridize plants...  She has started to read my old college biology textbooks.  I have a degree in biology and she knows more than I do about plants and animals.  She's even starting to delve into genetics and talking about starting her own nursery (with her own hybridized plants).  She was planning to start some online seed business at one point.  Lol.  I mean, she is just really out in left field.  I've looked around for student internships (like at the botanical gardens) and no one lets students volunteer until they're in high school.

 

She has zero friends.  I mean, zero.  She does not even like other kids.  I'm a little worried about that, too.  She does not watch TV/play games or do things that normal kids do.  

 

I intended to let her start high school work early, but now that I think about it, it would take away from her time researching/reading/experimenting.  It's like having a mad scientist in the house.  She becomes very fixated on a topic and will spend her entire day on it.  It's hard to draw her away from what she's doing.  Also, the stuff she is researching is way above any curricula I would "teach" her with (rolling my eyes, because I don't feel I can "teach" her anything anymore).

 

So, I don't even know what I'm asking.  What do other people with kids like this do?  Do I just leave her alone to self-study until high school?  And then what?   :confused1:   

 

Thank-you for reading if you've made it this far.  Also, thanks for any advice.

 

:svengo:  

[Cera]

What about focusing on the skills she will need for any placement or entrance tests for community college with a plan to dual enroll her when she hits 13 or 14?  If botany/biology is her passion you probably don't need to teach her those things.  It sounds like she will put plenty of effort into learning them herself.  But as much as she knows on those subjects, she will need a solid foundation in math and grammar/writing to be able to get into college (and in most cases a college degree will be necessary to develop a solid career in the sciences).

[....]

What about focusing on the skills she will need for any placement or entrance tests for community college with a plan to dual enroll her when she hits 13 or 14?  If botany/biology is her passion you probably don't need to teach her those things.  It sounds like she will put plenty of effort into learning them herself.  But as much as she knows on those subjects, she will need a solid foundation in math and grammar/writing to be able to get into college (and in most cases a college degree will be necessary to develop a solid career in the sciences).

 

Hi, I looked around at dual-enrollment (because I also started college during my high school years) and they have to be 16 yrs old here to take classes.  :(  That was actually a good idea, though. 

 

Math...she enjoys math.  She uses AOPS Pre-algebra and we're doing Life of Fred on the side for fun.  The other stuff?  She's "ok" with writing, but her writing isn't exceptional or anything.  She's been writing alot about her interests.  She made up some care sheet for certain plants last week.  She also has lists everywhere.  She will make colored pencil sketches of different flowers and write their species name with some descriptions about them.

 

Sheesh, what is it with the plant fixation?   :confused1: 

 

Thanks for replying.  I do agree with you about skills. 

[Crimson Wife]

If you're okay with "unschooling" everything but math, I would go with it. I have seen that "unschooling" can be very successful with a self-motivated gifted kid (unfortunately I have also seen a lot of educational neglect called "unschooling" as well). Some of the "unschoolers" I know always have the most interesting things to say when I ask what they've been up to lately.

 

What I would be concerned about is the lack of friends paired with the obsessive interest. Trying to say this gently, but has she ever been evaluated for Asperger's Syndrome? http://autismdigest.com/girls-with-a/

[....]

What I would be concerned about is the lack of friends paired with the obsessive interest. Trying to say this gently, but has she ever been evaluated for Asperger's Syndrome? http://autismdigest.com/girls-with-a/

 

OK, this has been bothering me for a long time.  Fixating on a topic and researching it to death does not seem normal to me.  I have not had her evaluated, but we suspect our 8 yro daughter (Kid #3) is mildly on the spectrum.  She is also very fixated on something.  For her, it's not plants...it's art.  She spends 4-5 hours a day creating artwork, looking at artwork, watching online "how to draw" videos, etc.  But, for some irrational reason it's been easier to accept the 8 yro's art fixation than it has the 11 yro's "plant researching".  

[kiana]

I think not starting high school work early except in plant biology (which she's doing independently) and math (math, only because she'll need some chemistry to continue and she'll need some math to understand that) is fine. She doesn't have to be across-the-board in all subjects.

 

I do think she should be working on some academic writing. It doesn't have to be accelerated, it can be a git-r-done program, but it's the other subject I'd make sure to include.

[dbmamaz]

Honestly, i'm thinking this girl is going to go far and make a difference in the world.  If friends are not a priority for her, thats fine.  This world needs devoted, single-minded scientists!  Have you introduced her to coursera?  that might be of interest to her.  there are also other MOOCs (free online college classes, which dont count for anything, so there's no risk in trying)

[....]

Honestly, i'm thinking this girl is going to go far and make a difference in the world.  If friends are not a priority for her, thats fine.  This world needs devoted, single-minded scientists!  Have you introduced her to coursera?  that might be of interest to her.  there are also other MOOCs (free online college classes, which dont count for anything, so there's no risk in trying)

 

Awww...   :001_wub:   I think so, too.  

 

No, I haven't looked at Coursera.  I'm not even sure what that is!  I'm going to google that one.

[JennW in SoCal]

I had a kid who got fixated at 11, had very few friends.  As his fixation wasn't on anything academic we were very worried and frustrated.  He tested as 2E, gifted but with some learning challenges, but with his fixation we wondered how he would ever get educated, much less get through college and get a job.  I wondered how I would survive!  Fast forward 10 years...............he is a college graduate who just started his dream job.

 

Here's some things I learned from surviving this journey.  Perhaps it will be of help.

 

The extreme fixation and social withdrawal was at its peak during puberty.  I noticed that lots of kids tended to withdraw in one way or another at the same age.  I knew kids who "hid" by wearing the same hat day in and day out, or wearing a hoodie, or one boy who grew his hair long and hid behind that.  All of them, including my ds, came out of their shells and are now engaging young adults.  My ds was just more extreme, just as he was during all the major childhood transitions and milestones.   

 

Finding some adult mentors was the best thing I ever did.  Not only did he get training I couldn't provide, the adults he worked with were much more forgiving of his social ineptness than any teen could ever be.  He had positive models of social behavior and of professional work ethics, and he built a very impressive resume.  It was also really good for me to see him from a different perspective, to see that other adults weren't worried about him, that they were impressed and excited for him.   His work with adults was a huge asset as he entered the work world as a teen.  He was comfortable talking with adults, understood the need to be on time and to be responsible on the job, all of which are basic skills too many teens lack.

 

By the time the standard high school years arrived he was ready for traditional academics after mostly unschooling the middle school years (except math).  He had matured enough to understood the need for a well rounded education, but did best when his subjects and assignments were designed around his interests.  And, thankfully, his interests broadened with maturity!  He continued honing his skills in his primary field of interest, which is theatrical lighting, and by the time he was 16 he was being hired by local schools to light their productions.  He graduated early, but was sad to discover that the 18 and 19 year olds he was with in college were still "dumb" teens!  I haven't heard him fuss about that issue in a while -- perhaps he is finally on par with his peers, and as an adult your peer group tends to have a much, much broader age range.

 

I found the best mentors and internships for my kids just by talking with people, and letting my kids talk with them, too.  My kids tended to "sell" themselves.  Formal internships usually do have age restrictions, but it doesn't mean she can't informally interact with and be mentored by experts.  Let whoever you do meet and talk with know you and/or your dh will accompany your daughter.  It does mean lots of extra time on your part, which of course is hard with younger siblings, but they can learn, too.   

 

My friends have always envied that I had a kid who was so focused and driven while their own kids are still groping to find their way in the world.  As with most things, it is both good and bad, but today I'm feeling like we made the most of the good and have launched a talented, thoughtful and kind young man into the world.  And, if you happen to ever be at Disneyland and marvel at the lighting effects -- well -- those may well have been the work of my son!!

 

[Dmmetler]

I'd suggest trying to find a mentor.

I'm guessing that if you got your DD involved in something like a local garden club focusing on heirloom seeds and heritage plants, or a horticulture group, or, really, almost any group of serious hobbyists involved in backyard science, she'd find a mentor, and that you'd see her thrive and that, maybe, she'd also be more able to give her obsession a focusing lens and not let it dictate her entire being.

 

 

And here's why:

 

I have an 8 yr old with similar focii in bio, except hers is snakes.  About a year ago, I subscribed to a couple of online forums for herpticulture and reptiles in general, and picked a couple that were well moderated and seemed professional, yet friendly, and e-mailed the moderators about letting DD share my account, so all messages would go through me, but so she could read/post. That led to us attending a couple of regional herpetological group meetings, and through that, to DD being asked, last year, if she'd like to sit in on a college (online) class that the professor was teaching for the first time. She enjoyed it, participated in the discussions, and did her first research paper. I wouldn't call it college level, but it was a distinct step up over her prior level of writing (which was almost none becuase I was not pushing technical writing at all-she was only a few months after age 8, after all).

 

This fall, she got a chance to work with a college professor closer to home, and has now participated in a field study, lab work and herping with her mentor (and her mentor's husband, also a bio professor). It helps that her mentor also has a similar aged, extremely intelligent child, so for some of the weekend trips, there are two similar aged kids who can go from actively trying to find and track and catch/label lizards for the study to playing in the mud at the edge of the lake. She is currently working on planning a study for this spring, and will attend her first professional conference this coming summer, with the hope that, if her research goes well this Spring and next fall, that she may have something that she can work into presentable content next year (which will basically be a large scale writing project and require a lot of work).

 

I've scaled way, way, way back to allow the time for this. Right now, she's doing AOPS with me and about an hour of math at night each day with DH which is more focused on fun, problem solving type stuff. She does her literature and history through Athena's Academy, which is lower level than I'd place her at skill-wise, but also requires that she pay attention to and respond to others, get used to participating in a group discussion both online and in speech without it being on snakes, and that she write for those classes. She's scaled back on languages, although she is working through Cambridge, using the online materials more than the book. She's still accomplishing a lot, almost 100% independently. She participates in a rec cheer team, and takes a couple of additional tumbling classes a week. She also takes piano lessons/theory class and participates in a weekly physics co-op.

 

The real benefit, though, has been socially and emotionally. She's just plain a happier, less stressed, less focused on perfection child than she was a year ago. She's more able to be social with others, because she has people to talk about her interests with, including a child her age, who take her seriously, and one result is that she seems to be more able to talk to anyone, and more able to give and take conversationally.

 

We've worried about aspergers as well-DD has been screened/tested twice, and both times, she's come up simply as being on the extreme end of the IQ scale and very, very quirky, but not clinically anything but PG. And honestly, even though her life is less "normal" for her age than it's ever been in the past, this year is the first year that I really CAN see that she's just plain exceptionally gifted and focused, as opposed to just plain strange.

 

 

[kbutton]

Your daughter sounds like a very interesting person. 11/12 was a very difficult age for me, so hats off to you for looking into the future and finding ways to guide her. If you find a mentor as previous posters have recommended, this may be a moot suggestion as they may take care of these same areas in their own work with her.

 

I was a tech writer. If you want her to write more, you might capitalize on the fact that she likes to write about her interests. It won't help with literary analysis, but outside of that, writing is largely organizing information to present to an audience. To present information effectively, you must select and use the most appropriate format for both the information and the audience. Even the care sheets she makes for her plants can take a great deal of care to craft and develop if they are done well. If you found a good text on technical writing/communication or report/proposal writing, you could help her develop some great skills. Scientists need to know how to research and write good papers, write up their own research, give presentations of their work (charts, data points, etc.), and sometimes write grants proposals. They need to persuade others that they have a valuable idea or marketable product. They need to write lab procedures and checklists when they are collaborating or to automate their own work. You can find good books that teach how to write scientific papers as well, but they may give less writing instruction than a tech writing book would give and focus more on the format of the paper. The tech writing books also focus on interpersonal communication with collaborators and other people you need to work with (many of whom may not understand your job or the importance of your work).

 

I used this textbook in college http://www.amazon.com/Technical-Writing-John-M-Lannon/dp/0673524728, and I think this might be an updated version of it http://www.amazon.com/Technical-Communication-13th-Edition-Lannon/dp/0321899970/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_2. I also recommend http://www.amazon.com/Style-Lessons-Clarity-Grace-11th/dp/0321898680/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1382365520&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=style+and+mechanics+ten+lessons for any form of writing.  

[JennW in SoCal]

 And honestly, even though her life is less "normal" for her age than it's ever been in the past, this year is the first year that I really CAN see that she's just plain exceptionally gifted and focused, as opposed to just plain strange.

 

I think the point of my long post could be boiled down to this sentence.  Letting our kids out of the box, allowing them to do their thing and nurturing their deeper exploration of their thing is often the best for everyone.  It is hard to do, it is very frightening to be "not normal" but it really is wondrously wonderful.

[....]

You guys have been just extremely helpful.  Thank-you!!  And what you're saying about mentoring is making a lot of sense.  

 

I'm afraid to see what high school will look like in a couple of years, but for now...I think I am going to have her do math, some writing every day and leave her to her self-study.  It's weird to tell her to stop doing her science, so she can do MY science.   :tongue_smilie:

 

JennW - how old was your son when he started high school?  You mentioned that he finished early.  Did he start early, too?

[JennW in SoCal]

 

JennW - how old was your son when he started high school?  You mentioned that he finished early.  Did he start early, too?

 

The kid I described started at 14 and finished in 3 years.  But he did not follow the typical college prep track, planning instead on going the community college/transfer route.  He wound up at a professional school.

 

My advice is to not start worrying about high school.  Really.  There is no rush and trust me that an almost 12yo is a far different creature than a 14yo or 17yo.  She will mature into the understanding the need to do the variety of coursework she will need to get into college.  (Mentors will help here -- they will be full of stories of their college days, or will talk about their outside interests.)  

 

Also. You do not need to decide that next year or the year after is the official start of high school.  Keep records -- lists of books, a calendar, samples of work.  If in a few years it seems time to send her off to college you can put together a transcript, organizing all she has read and done into courses.  It may be that she doesn't settle down for a year or two for formal history or English, but that is ok.  The transcript can be organized by subject so that it doesn't matter what year something was done.  Think of it as packaging -- you will want to present all the fabulous work your dd has done in a format that colleges understand.   I've got a kid in college whose tidy high school transcript belies a wild variety of work from unschooling to community college courses and everything in between.  He also graduated early, but didn't know when he was 12 that work he did when he was 13 would be on his high school transcript, never imagined he would be starting community college classes at 14 and university at 17. 

 

It's all part of the wild life outside the box!  

[kiana]

I'm afraid to see what high school will look like in a couple of years, but for now...I think I am going to have her do math, some writing every day and leave her to her self-study.  It's weird to tell her to stop doing her science, so she can do MY science.   :tongue_smilie:

 

100% agree with this.

 

If she's just getting into genetics, you might consider getting Call Me Gene for her to read. It's a an introduction for students just at her level. http://www.amazon.com/Call-Me-Gene-Second-Edition/dp/0967381126 Maybe also the cartoon guide to genetics. Again, these are just if she's interested -- if she's not interested I'd let her do as she likes.

 

I used to read genetics textbooks as a child but all of mine were more aimed at animal breeding because that's what I was interested in.

[....]

Also. You do not need to decide that next year or the year after is the official start of high school.  Keep records -- lists of books, a calendar, samples of work.  If in a few years it seems time to send her off to college you can put together a transcript, organizing all she has read and done into courses.  It may be that she doesn't settle down for a year or two for formal history or English, but that is ok.  The transcript can be organized by subject so that it doesn't matter what year something was done.  Think of it as packaging -- you will want to present all the fabulous work your dd has done in a format that colleges understand.   I've got a kid in college whose tidy high school transcript belies a wild variety of work from unschooling to community college courses and everything in between.  He also graduated early, but didn't know when he was 12 that work he did when he was 13 would be on his high school transcript, never imagined he would be starting community college classes at 14 and university at 17. 

 

It's all part of the wild life outside the box!  

 

If we homeschool like this long-term, how do I know what constitutes a high school course?  Is there a book you could recommend or a website that explains it?  Also, what would we call that kind of homeschooling?

 

Once again, thank-you!!!  I don't want to be an internet stalker, but it may help me to read some of your older posts.

[....]

100% agree with this.

 

If she's just getting into genetics, you might consider getting Call Me Gene for her to read. It's a an introduction for students just at her level. http://www.amazon.com/Call-Me-Gene-Second-Edition/dp/0967381126 Maybe also the cartoon guide to genetics. 

 

She would probably really like this!  I showed her how to do a Punnett Square the other day.   :thumbup1:

[quark]

I think the point of my long post could be boiled down to this sentence.  Letting our kids out of the box, allowing them to do their thing and nurturing their deeper exploration of their thing is often the best for everyone.  It is hard to do, it is very frightening to be "not normal" but it really is wondrously wonderful.

 

Yes, yes, yes! Oh boy, yes! I'm getting emotional but I'm so glad someone is saying this. There are days when it feels so lonely and so scary. More so because I love reading homeschooling forums. And I keep having to close the window so I won't be swayed once again to try something that is not right for him just because it's right for SO many others. But I can't imagine it any other way for DS right now. Thank you Jenn!

 

You guys have been just extremely helpful.  Thank-you!!  And what you're saying about mentoring is making a lot of sense.  

One more plug for mentoring. My son's mentor is his peer right now. Wait, I need to rephrase that but I'm not sure how. Son's mentor has so much more experience than son does. But son is getting the same fix chatting with his mentor that many kids will get chatting with same-age pals. Even his similar-age best pals don't chat about math the way son wants to and it hurts to see him do all the listening and not the talking when he is with his (very very smart, nevertheless) similar-age pals. But when he is with his mentor...that light in his eyes...it's just completely different.

 

If we homeschool like this long-term, how do I know what constitutes a high school course?  Is there a book you could recommend or a website that explains it?  Also, what would we call that kind of homeschooling?

Not Jenn but I'll add something I have been trying.

 

I learn by stalking and lurking on the high school board. When a boardie I respect posts about the same curriculum/ resource we are currently using I read as much as I can about that member's experience and come to a decision whether or not to call it high school level. I also check other forums e.g. the hs2coll yahoo group and once in a while college confidential. So basically I am looking at the resources we are using, looking at what level people consider such resources to be then I keep careful records about what DS is doing, and come up with an estimate of how much time he spent vs quality of his work compared to other high school students working at a high level (not same age accelerated students). Of course, it's hard to be accurate because I cannot be a fly on the wall in these other students' homes or schools. But if it feels rigorous to me, I note it in an Excel spreadsheet.

 

Once he finishes the course, I print and keep the grade report (if outsourced) in a special folder. Most of his courses are outsourced so it's not very hard to keep records and feel validated. It is possible that he will take a number of SAT subject tests for further validation. If it's a course I need to design myself then I will probably post here or on the high school board to ask for advice.

 

We will make a decision about early college once kiddo's portfolio seems strong enough. We prefer to wait for maturity but are also aware that he might wilt if we keep him home too long.

 

What to call it? Well, we just call ourselves eclectic homeschoolers. :D

[quark]

She would probably really like this!  I showed her how to do a Punnett Square the other day.   :thumbup1:

 

Has she read Cats are Not Peas? Does she like cats? I haven't finished it but the half or so I have read makes me think she might enjoy the book.

[....]

Yes, yes, yes! Oh boy, yes! I'm getting emotional but I'm so glad someone is saying this. There are days when it feels so lonely and so scary. More so because I love reading homeschooling forums. And I keep having to close the window so I won't be swayed once again to try something that is not right for him just because it's right for SO many others. But I can't imagine it any other way for DS right now. Thank you Jenn!

 

 

Yeah!  I wish I could find more info/support out there for this kind of homeschooling.  Everyone we've met IRL uses a boxed curriculum and does a school-at-home type of homeschooling (we're in TX).  I know there are people on this forum who use alternative homeschooling methods, but I feel bad posting about it on here (since it's a classical ed board).  I don't want to take up their online space with my weird ideas.   :tongue_smilie:

[Dmmetler]

Look for "eclectic" groups if you can find one.  Mine has a wide range of homeschoolers, from  TNVA folks (who aren't allowed in any of the other homeschool groups, so we get all of them) to unschoolers. What I've found is that the unschoolers actually "Get" the path DD is on more than many of the others-they can see she's following her passions. It's helped, I think, that several of them have the urban homesteads that also attract the animals that DD is involved with, and have been willing to let DD use their yards-so they've seen her in action and seen that it's very obviously NOT me who is driving this.

 

I will also say that having a mentor has helped me, too-having adults say that "Yes, it's normal to be so passionate about a given animal-I was that way, and so are most of my college students. Don't worry-the balance comes somewhere around grad school" is a big help when I start to worry about whether she'll be living in my basement at age 40 surrounded by snake tanks and working at Petco (which she actually listed as a career goal at one point-because then she'd get to be with snakes ALL DAY...all I can see is "minimum wage job") Even things like DD insisting that she won't go to college if she can't take her snake with her is helpful when you have a college professor say "Actually, we have two pets in the bio lab now that came with students-she needs to ask about that at her campus visit/interview". The more we find the outside support for her, the less I need it from my peers, and the more confident I feel creating our own homeschooling path.

 

Where I do have a wrench is that so much of DD's stuff is moving online because that's what she likes, can do independently, and can fit in around what she's doing otherwise (it's much easier to juggle an iPad with a wireless internet connection in the car over a couple of hour drive than a stack of books and papers). Which is so against my "limited screentime", college degree in child development mentality that it's next to impossible to reconcile. I really suspect math will move online in the next year or two-and when it does, my role in her education really WILL just be to drive her places and pay the credit card bills. I hadn't expected this before she got out of elementary school age-wise; I hadn't even really expected it before college.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mathmarm]

Find her a mentor. Someone in the field of her passions. It doesn't need to be official or high-end, with lots of paperwork--just someone she can bounce ideas around with and learn something. I think that an undergrad student in the sciences might be a great start, or even a highschool student from a city school who is interested and willing. Look into near-by universities and contact the departments and ask around. Ask about public venues and "community days" or anything like that.

 

My school has lots of public events throughout the semester in various departments. Kids and families and students come out just to hang around and chat and sometimes students meet up with someone with whom they 'click'. A student wound up finding a partner for their senior project that way and they weren't even the same major, yet they collaborated on a spectacular project design. I know some of my undergrad and grad students volunteer with "Big Brother/Big Sister" type organizations so you could even contact an organization like that and ask about college students who are mentoring youth.

[Crimson Wife]

If friends are not a priority for her, thats fine.

I disagree. I'm an introvert married to another introvert so I get not wanting to be Mr./Ms. Social Butterfly who loves to make small talk with random strangers (like my dad, my grandma, my MIL, etc. do) But I don't think it is healthy to have ZERO friends. And I don't buy the excuse that it's due to being HG+. I know tons of people who are HG+ and are still well-adjusted socially. Maybe they find their friends through more intellectual pursuits (chess club, Science Olympiad, drama, Society for Creative Anachronism, etc.) than typical, but they do have friends.

 

I think it would benefit the OP to have her daughter evaluated by a psychiatrist, pediatric neurologist, or neuropsychologist for Asperger's given the combo of the obsessive interest and the complete lack of friends.

[Barbara H]

My take is that everyone needs people in their life. It doesn't have to be same age, giggling, let's go to the mall and get eye shadow kind of friends. It is fine she doesn't want that. But, all people need some social connections with others and it is something to be encouraged. It would be great if she can connect with some people who share her interest in plants. Fortunately this is a very common interest and there should be some resources in any community - local nursery, arborist, 4H, professors, cooperative extension, sustainable agriculture, organic farmers, etc.   Many communities have Master Gardener programs. http://www.ahs.org/gardening-resources/master-gardeners

 

With academics my concern would not be that if she doesn't dedicate to a particular curriculum, that she will get "behind". She's obviously bright and could "catch up" quickly. My bigger concern would be that there are some important social and emotional skills that most students learn through academics. These are areas like: listening to the ideas of others, handling criticism, working through frustration instead of just switching to a new prioject, tackling areas that don't play to your natural strengths, etc. Academics aren't the only way these skills can be developed but they are the place for a lot of kids. So, if not academics it might be good to encourage some other extracurricular activity - music lessons, martial arts, theater, fencing, etc. I would be very flexible about what she chooses but make it a requirement that she try something that gets her out of the house and learning something with other people.

[....]

Thanks, CrimsonWife and Barbara H.  I feel sad about the "no friends" thing and I've been thinking about that today.  Being brutally honest here, I think she doesn't have any friends, because she's not getting anything out of the relationship.  I think friends to her almost feels like babysitting.  They're not bringing anything to the table, YKWIM?  I did force her to go on a couple of sleep overs last summer and in both cases, she basically ended up talking to the moms the entire time.  She actually ended up helping one of the moms with her math homework - LOL (the mom is taking cc classes).  She does get along very well with adults, but not other kids.  Thinking about it some more, it's been about 2 years since I've seen her do any "kid stuff" like pretend or play with anything (which also seems weird to me).

 

We went through a phase a couple of years ago where I had her in a TON of activities.  I mean, a ton.  Last year, I pulled them out of everything, because the older two kids asked to focus on one activity.  But, we did several years of girl scouts.  The girls were kinda catty and my daughter could not relate to them.  We were in a homeschool group and, once again, my daughter didn't have anything in common with any of the kids.  All 4 of my kids are really into martial arts.  The two oldest are black belts and are in a special program where they do student teaching at the martial arts school.  So, my daughter is always leading classes, helping other students, etc.  So, she can do stuff like that.  The older two kids spend about 6-8 hours a week at the martial arts gym (they are both really into it).  Without being arrogant, they are probably two of the strongest students in the school.  They worked together to teach themselves this form that had like 80-90 positions in it and they did it in about 3 weeks.   :eek:  They took the paper from the office and sat and memorized it together...and then worked out the form on their own.  I mean, it was pretty amazing for two tweens.

 

Also, I feel like where we live is kind of an educational wasteland.  Everything is really tied to the school districts.  I tried to find a math team...or math counts...or something and I couldn't find anything.  The town next to us had an average ACT score of like 17 or something...our library is tiny...  I mean, I'm looking for stuff!  I guess I need to look harder.

 

Anyway, thanks, Everybody.  

[8filltheheart]

I disagree. I'm an introvert married to another introvert so I get not wanting to be Mr./Ms. Social Butterfly who loves to make small talk with random strangers (like my dad, my grandma, my MIL, etc. do) But I don't think it is healthy to have ZERO friends. And I don't buy the excuse that it's due to being HG+. I know tons of people who are HG+ and are still well-adjusted socially. Maybe they find their friends through more intellectual pursuits (chess club, Science Olympiad, drama, Society for Creative Anachronism, etc.) than typical, but they do have friends.

 

I think it would benefit the OP to have her daughter evaluated by a psychiatrist, pediatric neurologist, or neuropsychologist for Asperger's given the combo of the obsessive interest and the complete lack of friends.

 

I'm not sure.   It really is more of "it depends."  Is it an off the cuff....she doesn't like other kids or is it that she has no social awareness and no social skills?   The obsessive behaviors......again, it depends.  

 

My Aspie does not understand how to socialize appropriately.   It isn't that he dislikes other people, etc.   He simply interacts oddly.  He cannot relate to anyone on an appropriate age level.   When he was younger, he played better with kids significantly younger than him or talked to people significantly older than him.....but he could never associate with others normally at his age level.   His obsessive behaviors are destructive and reflect his executive function deficits.   He cannot let go of his obsession.   So, for example, when he was obsessed with drawing, he would draw the same picture over and over again non-stop for 20+ hrs and if you interfered with his drawing, he would get angry b/c he could not let go of what he was doing.  It controlled him......not him enjoying the thrill of what he was doing.  Those are abnormal behaviors.

 

Our sr began his obsession with physics when he was 12-13.   He watched every documentary he could find.   He read every book we had.   At that age he had friends, but they were more acquaintances than what I would call good friends b/c he had much different interests than they did.   He was active in scouting and loved camping, etc.   He would play basketball, etc.   But, no, he did not have friends like he has now.   11-13 are hard yrs in general for friendships b/c they are straddling childhood/teenagerhood and some kids tip one way and some tip the other.   Interests are starting to emerge that are really serious interests with some kids but other kids are not so "deep" with interests and just gossip/hangout/etc.

 

Now that he is older and has found "deep" thinkers, even when their interests are history or computers, etc and have nothing to do with physics, he has formed really great friendships.   It is more b/c they are socially on the intellectual side and like to talk about a wide variety of topics on a level that other teens/young adults don't.  Their conversations don't hang on the superficial.    He still has more "social" friends.....those that like to rock climb, swing dance, etc, but they are not the same type of friends and I don't think the bonds are as strong (except maybe with the girls at swing dancing!  ;) ).  (I might be wrong about that, though.   This is my assumption based on simple observation.) 

 

And...ds's obsession with physics is very strong.   However, it doesn't crowd out all other interests and he most definitely walks away from it when something else needs his attention.   I won't say he stops mulling over a problem he is trying to solve if interrupted, but it isn't a frustrated separation.  Does that make any sense?   He will definitely leave to go swing dancing even in the midst of an oncoming break-through.   Our Aspie, otoh, wouldn't even break to go to the bathroom or sleep w/o our forcing him to stop.    Our non-Aspie also does have other strong interests like writing a novel.  However, if you compared his knowledge of physics with even most physics loving 17 yr olds, his knowledge/understanding is way beyond them.   So it is a "passion," but it is not a disabling obsession like what is seen in our Aspie.

 

I do think that she needs an outlet and others have given good suggestion re that.

[8filltheheart]

Oh, and one other thing......go and meet admissions officers directly about the age factor vs. just reading what they say on their website. My ds didn't start dual enrolling until 16, but he was doing it at the local universities vs. a CC. The universities each had different policies, but he was younger than both rules allowed and meeting with them in person allowed him to receive an exception and enroll.

[quark]

Thanks, CrimsonWife and Barbara H.  I feel sad about the "no friends" thing and I've been thinking about that today.  Being brutally honest here, I think she doesn't have any friends, because she's not getting anything out of the relationship.  I think friends to her almost feels like babysitting.  They're not bringing anything to the table, YKWIM?  I did force her to go on a couple of sleep overs last summer and in both cases, she basically ended up talking to the moms the entire time.  She actually ended up helping one of the moms with her math homework - LOL (the mom is taking cc classes).  She does get along very well with adults, but not other kids.  Thinking about it some more, it's been about 2 years since I've seen her do any "kid stuff" like pretend or play with anything (which also seems weird to me).

 

We went through a phase a couple of years ago where I had her in a TON of activities.  I mean, a ton.  Last year, I pulled them out of everything, because the older two kids asked to focus on one activity.  But, we did several years of girl scouts.  The girls were kinda catty and my daughter could not relate to them.  We were in a homeschool group and, once again, my daughter didn't have anything in common with any of the kids.  [...]

 

Also, I feel like where we live is kind of an educational wasteland.  Everything is really tied to the school districts.  I tried to find a math team...or math counts...or something and I couldn't find anything.  The town next to us had an average ACT score of like 17 or something...our library is tiny...  I mean, I'm looking for stuff!  I guess I need to look harder.

 

I bolded all the things that we are experiencing where we are. Word for word. I could have written that. I have found DS some friends but it takes lots of driving, something I am not able to do often enough. I used to think Skype chats might help but those fizzled out too. DS has a handful of good friends but each kid lives an hour away and has his own intense interest that is different from DS's. And being less pushy in conversations, he gets his own ideas heard much less often than he likes. So again, that's where having the mentor has really helped. And one really unforeseen advantage of a dance class we took is that DS has found some unlikely buddies there...but that class is going to be cancelled in the near future.

 

Sometimes just one friend makes a difference and I'm sure you know that already. Just commiserating with you and trying to encourage you to keep trying.

 

And what's up with all these educational wastelands right? I love where I live for every other reason except that. The bookstore that we adore, and the only one too in our tiny city, is going to close soon. I am still not able to get over that. It's so sad.

 

ETA, by the way, AMC (e.g. AMC 8, 10) allows homeschoolers to register and choose a proctor (non family member or librarian). I also recently discovered that NACLO will allow homeschooling parents to proctor their kids! Just a heads up.

[retiredHSmom]

We reached a similar point with my daughter when she was 14.  We chose to allow her to leave home to attend college in the Program for the Exceptionally Gifted at Mary Baldwin College.  

 

They do take girls as young as 12, although I would be hesitant to send my daughter at 12.  Primarily because my daughter is 16 now and participating in many of the activities expected of a junior in college in her field has become difficult because she is under 18.  She did attend a research project last summer, but to be honest, I think that they failed to pay attention to her birthdate and she slipped through the cracks.  They were shocked and concerned that she was under 18.  She has been invited to present her research project at several different conferences but hotel and travel is hard without an adult when you are under 18.  There are many summer programs that she is very eligible for that she cannot participate in because of her age.  She was furious to find out that she cannot apply for a Rhodes scholarship because you have to be 18 by October to apply and she won't be 18 until January of her senior year.

 

All those difficulties aside, it has been a fantastic decision for her.  She has found friends who are driven like she is.  She has had amazing experiences in her field.  She is a very active part of student life at the college.  They have had PEG students for 25 years so they are a fully integrated part of student life.  My daughter is the Student Government Treasurer, The Residence Hall Association Vice-Chair, a member of the dance team and the physics TA.

[Dmmetler]

Oh, and one other thing......go and meet admissions officers directly about the age factor vs. just reading what they say on their website.   My ds didn't start dual enrolling until 16, but he was doing it at the local universities vs. a CC.   The universities each had different policies, but he was younger than both rules allowed and meeting with them in person allowed him to receive an exception and enroll.   The only time his age has been a "firm" no......his physics professor from last semester had been granted funding to take ds on a research trip which was a fabulous opportunity.   The university reneged at the last minute when they realized he was a minor.   They were completely inflexible with granting permission for traveling b/c he was under 18.   But, other than that, we have been able to get exceptions made for him based on test scores and level. 

 

I will agree with this as well-another thing to look into is whether the university has any sort of "lifelong learning initiative"-these programs are usually designed for senior citizens to audit classes for cheap or no tuition without any sort of record keeping whatsoever, on a space-available basis, but a faculty member was able to make the case that this also applied to students too young for formal enrollment-which has worked well for DD because she needs the content, but isn't necessarily ready to do college level work on the assignments.

[....]

 

My Aspie does not understand how to socialize appropriately.   It isn't that he dislikes other people, etc.   He simply interacts oddly.  He cannot relate to anyone on an appropriate age level.   When he was younger, he played better with kids significantly younger than him or talked to people significantly older than him.....but he could never associate with others normally at his age level.   His obsessive behaviors are destructive and reflect his executive function deficits.   He cannot let go of his obsession.   So, for example, when he was obsessed with drawing, he would draw the same picture over and over again non-stop for 20+ hrs and if you interfered with his drawing, he would get angry b/c he could not let go of what he was doing.  It controlled him......not him enjoying the thrill of what he was doing.  Those are abnormal behaviors.

 

Our sr began his obsession with physics when he was 12-13.   He watched every documentary he could find.   He read every book we had.   At that age he had friends, but they were more acquaintances than what I would call good friends b/c he had much different interests than they did.   He was active in scouting and loved camping, etc.   He would play basketball, etc.   But, no, he did not have friends like he has now.   11-13 are hard yrs in general for friendships b/c they are straddling childhood/teenagerhood and some kids tip one way and some tip the other.   Interests are starting to emerge that are really serious interests with some kids but other kids are not so "deep" with interests and just gossip/hangout/etc.

 

Now that he is older and has found "deep" thinkers, even when their interests are history or computers, etc and have nothing to do with physics, he has formed really great friendships.   It is more b/c they are socially on the intellectual side and like to talk about a wide variety of topics on a level that other teens/young adults don't.  Their conversations don't hang on the superficial.    He still has more "social" friends.....those that like to rock climb, swing dance, etc, but they are not the same type of friends and I don't think the bonds are as strong (except maybe with the girls at swing dancing!  ;) ).  (I might be wrong about that, though.   This is my assumption based on simple observation.) 

 

And...ds's obsession with physics is very strong.   However, it doesn't crowd out all other interests and he most definitely walks away from it when something else needs his attention.   I won't say he stops mulling over a problem he is trying to solve if interrupted, but it isn't a frustrated separation.  Does that make any sense?   He will definitely leave to go swing dancing even in the midst of an oncoming break-through.   Our Aspie, otoh, wouldn't even break to go to the bathroom or sleep w/o our forcing him to stop.    Our non-Aspie also does have other strong interests like writing a novel.  However, if you compared his knowledge of physics with even most physics loving 17 yr olds, his knowledge/understanding is way beyond them.   So it is a "passion," but it is not a disabling obsession like what is seen in our Aspie.

 

 

OK, my daughters do not sound like your Aspie.  They sound more like your other son that you describe.  Thank-you so much for typing all that out.  I'm going to spend time today reading some of your older posts - and JennW's, too.   

 

I have alot of thinkin' to do.  :)   

[Emerald Stoker]

 She spends hours researching, reading, making things, setting up plants outside (she's really interested in botany), trying to hybridize plants...  

  

 

Just a book suggestion...has she read Carol Deppe's book on developing one's own vegetable varieties?  It's great (though you don't share a climate--but maybe there would be some information of interest there in any case).

http://www.caroldeppe.com/byovv.html