If you dislike IEW what then?

[Hakg]

DS9 (grade 3) and I have tried really REALLY hard to like IEW.  We have tried to use it 3 times in the past year (only units 1 and 2) and we just cant stand it.  Sorry.

 

We are using WWE and have since the beginning (although we have taken some detours from time to time and always come back to WWE). We are about to finish up with WWE3.  The other writing DS does is Bravewriter freewrites, and he narrates for history/science.  I would call him a natural writer, and I think this could be one reason we found IEW so stifling.  In saying that, he doesn't like a lot of handwriting (physically).

 

For those who have tried IEW and felt the same way we do, what writing program did you prefer?

 

 

[Angie in VA]

Yep. Bought and sold it-twice! If he's a natural writer, keep him writing across the curriculum. Can you get a typing program and let him "play" at that, and then type his written assignments? 

 

I suggest you invest in yourself. You mentioned WWE, again he can eventually type those assignments once he gets more proficient at typing, and in the meantime, you listen to SWB's lectures on writing if you haven't yet. I've never seen Bravewriter, but I've heard it is good.

 

Also, 8FillTheHeart has detailed what writing looks like in her home. Good stuff there. As your son gets older, check out posts by Lori D. too. Nan in Mass has good advice too. Not to inundate you, but lewelma did a lot of research on this topic too. 

 

You're not alone w/ IEW. My dd did learn from it, but, honestly, it was writing briefs, cases and speeches for speech and debate club that helped her the most, since I was so inept. We did narration in the early years, but I wish I'd done things differently and had those SWB talks on writing.

 

 

 

 

[Hakg]

Thank you, yes I think a typing program might be the way to go at this point.  He will happily write about a page (double spaced) but any more is too much for him currently - there are no physical issues - just a slight aversion.  He also happily wrote out short paras for IEW, he just did not enjoy the content, nor the process.

 

Yes I have listened to a couple of SWB's writing lectures some time ago - maybe I need a refresher.  DS loves WWE, there are never any complaints - its me - I feel like its not enough, even though he is writing for other subjects.  I'm feeling he needs more instruction with sentence structure as he can tend to ramble.

 

Also with nearing completion of WWE3, I'm wondering where we go - I suppose there is WWE4? but it has never been my plan to use this last book.

 

At this age, I don't want to suck the joy out of writing (which is what has happened when using IEW).  In fact after using IEW the last time, he stopped writing voluntarily and would only 'write for school' for about 4 months.

 

Off to go check out your links... thanks!

[Ellie]

Writing Strands would be my first choice. :-)

 

I also like Understanding Writing.

[linguistmama]

IEW wasn't a good fit for us either. My oldest is not a reluctant writer and it seemed too slow. I really like many of 8's posts on writing. But I didn't feel confident in teaching writing like that. It all made sense to me when she said that she used parts of Voyages in English with her older kids. I needed teacher training :) We are using ViE and Writing and Rhetoric from CAP. I like the more public school writing approach from ViE, but didn't want to miss out on a more classical approach to writing as well. We didn't like WWE as well after level 2. I like that CAP's program takes a more creative approach to narration and writing.

[Hakg]

I have looked at Writing Strands in the past and didn't like it - I cannot recall why though.

 

I looked at 8FillTheHearts posts and they look great, however, I need more hand holding to teach writing. 

 

linguistmama - I have CAP's W&R on order but have been wondering if after completion of WWE3, this may feel remedial? That might be another thread tho? 

 

It is interesting that there have been 225 views of this thread, but only a few who have spoken up about not liking IEW.  I do feel like we are the minority here, and sometimes wonder if I am just missing something fundamental with IEW (although I don't think so, I have watched 5 discs of the TWSS now, and still don't feel the love). 

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

My favorite for that age is Wordsmith Apprentice

http://www.commonsensepress.com/wordsmith/wsapp.htm

 

 

[Susan in KY]

I use Michael Clay Thompson, Killgallon, and Susan Wise Bauer's recommendations, and both of mine are writing pretty well now. Wordsmith Apprentice helped a bit too, I think. :)

Susan

[serendipitous journey]

I'm not sure you're in the minority -- most folks here don't use IEW.  Though perhaps most haven't tried! 

 

We did some IEW in the latter half of A.'s second grade, and it served us very very well, but I was not happy with the various requirements and the awkwardness/formalism of what was being taught (though I do understand that at the later levels this fades away -- it just bugs me personally, and I don't want to have to teach it). 

 

I've moved us to Classical Writing because I want a thorough, demanding writing curriculum that is not limited/extremely focused on academic writing and which ties to the classical tradition.  We are just starting Aesop and so far I like it though it isn't as simple to work with as either WWE or IEW.  I actually think that our IEW experience is a great jumpstart to Classical Writing; the outlining, rewriting, all are useful and we're getting up and running quickly. 

 

I also like the very rich/complex language of the CW models. 

 

But I don't know if this is of use to you, OP -- I have a rather reluctant writer, for example ...

[5LittleMonkeys]

I always chuckle when I see people apologizing for not liking IEW.  It is definitely not for everyone and especially not a good fit for most children who are natural writers. I teach IEW in a co-op and I always advertise it as a class for reluctant writers.  The two times a parent wanted to place their natural writers in the class just for the "experience" they lasted 2 weeks before asking to pull them out.  

 

In your case, being solid in summarizing skills so not needing the extra practice of WWE4, would move onto practicing and perfecting a good paragraph, while also working on experimenting with diverse word choice and sentence structure.  Simply continue writing from science and history but move toward writing a solid paragraph instead of a 1 or 2 sentence summary.  You might even add in writing a simple literary response each week as well.  On top of that I would look at Killgallon for work on style...really fun for kids who want their writing to sound more "mature".  It uses the modeling method, but isn't nearly as restrictive as IEW can feel. 

 

Good luck in your search. :)

[Mommamia]

Maybe Essentials in Writing? Lots of hand holding, and my IEW reluctant boys like it.

[Hakg]

I was not happy with the various requirements and the awkwardness/formalism of what was being taught (though I do understand that at the later levels this fades away -- it just bugs me personally, and I don't want to have to teach it). 

 

I've moved us to Classical Writing because I want a thorough, demanding writing curriculum that is not limited/extremely focused on academic writing and which ties to the classical tradition.  We are just starting Aesop and so far I like it though it isn't as simple to work with as either WWE or IEW.  I actually think that our IEW experience is a great jumpstart to Classical Writing; the outlining, rewriting, all are useful and we're getting up and running quickly. 

 

I also like the very rich/complex language of the CW models. 

 

 

I can't agree more.  The checklists were cumbersome and artificial and the thought of teaching this to DS was really unappealing - I knew he would revolt!  When I told him he had to add an -ly word and a who/which clause to his already well written paragraph, he could not comprehend why he should be forced to do this when it already flowed so well.  After he added the -ly word and who/which clause, the paragraph then sounded awkward. 

 

I am interested in CW, but I am frequently reading that it is difficult to teach.  I have read that the new CAP program is similar to CW but more child/teacher friendly, so I have this ordered.

 

"I also like the very rich/complex language of the CW models".  This is what I want too.

 

I printed and had a look at the Writing & Rhetoric samples last night and it looks very good. 

[Hakg]

I always chuckle when I see people apologizing for not liking IEW.  It is definitely not for everyone and especially not a good fit for most children who are natural writers. I teach IEW in a co-op and I always advertise it as a class for reluctant writers.  The two times a parent wanted to place their natural writers in the class just for the "experience" they lasted 2 weeks before asking to pull them out.  

 

In your case, being solid in summarizing skills so not needing the extra practice of WWE4, would move onto practicing and perfecting a good paragraph, while also working on experimenting with diverse word choice and sentence structure.  Simply continue writing from science and history but move toward writing a solid paragraph instead of a 1 or 2 sentence summary.  You might even add in writing a simple literary response each week as well.  On top of that I would look at Killgallon for work on style...really fun for kids who want their writing to sound more "mature".  It uses the modeling method, but isn't nearly as restrictive as IEW can feel. 

 

Good luck in your search. :)

 

Lol - I am scared to speak negatively about IEW as I have been shot down in the past for saying I don't like it, so I feel the need to apologise in advance. :laugh:

 

Thanks for the clarification about it not being a good fit for natural writers as this is how I quite strongly feel also.  IEW told me it was good for natural and reluctant writers, which is why we plugged along with it for a bit.  I can't see how it would be beneficial for natural writers though - DS found it very restrictive.

 

Yes practice with good paragraph and sentence structure is where I feel he is at now.  And I know DS would be keen on making his writing sound even more mature - he seems to aim for this already, but sometimes (in his attempt to be mature with his writing), he uses words and sentences out of context if that makes sense.

 

Which Killgallon book would I need for him? From what I can see there are 2 he could use?

 

Thanks again, your post has given me some things to think about.

[Hakg]

Maybe Essentials in Writing? Lots of hand holding, and my IEW reluctant boys like it.

 

Thanks we have tried this one too.  Again can't recall why it was not a good fit.  Possibly the DVD instruction which DS is not keen on.

[MerryAtHope]

Thanks we have tried this one too.  Again can't recall why it was not a good fit.  Possibly the DVD instruction which DS is not keen on.

 

Essentials was what worked here when IEW didn't.

 

However...you are already doing Bravewriter freewrites... Why not go whole hog with Bravewriter materials?  Do you have The Writer's Jungle?  The appendix has monthly writing suggestions for about 4 years worth of work. Yes, you have to come up with assignments, but for a student who likes the natural method, he may help with some of that generating.

 

The bravewriter lifestyle email group is free and is chock full of ideas of things to do.

 

The newsletters that tie in with certain books could be something you could use (not all of them last the whole month though--some only have about 10 days worth of work in them, and you'd want to fill in with bravewriter lifestyle ideas & Friday freewrites etc...)

 

If I had a student who took to the natural approach, that's what I would explore next. You can wait to work on formats later on, just let him write and have fun with language.

[5LittleMonkeys]

 

Which Killgallon book would I need for him? From what I can see there are 2 he could use?

 

Thanks again, your post has given me some things to think about.

 

 

Your welcome. :)

 

For a 3rd\4th grader I would start with Story Grammar for Elementary School.  Sentence Composing for Elementary School gets into discussing prepositional phrases, appositive phrases, participial phrases, and adjective\adverb clauses, so usually is best used with a child who has had more exposure to grammar concepts. However, if your child is advanced in grammar (is comfortable and solid in basic parts of speech) it may be fine for him to start with Sentence Composing.  

[Hakg]

Essentials was what worked here when IEW didn't.

 

However...you are already doing Bravewriter freewrites... Why not go whole hog with Bravewriter materials?  Do you have The Writer's Jungle? .

 

I do have WJ and liked elements of it.  I have also thought about using more of the materials.  Will give that more consideration... thanks.

[Hakg]

For a 3rd\4th grader I would start with Story Grammar for Elementary School.  Sentence Composing for Elementary School gets into discussing prepositional phrases, appositive phrases, participial phrases, and adjective\adverb clauses, so usually is best used with a child who has had more exposure to grammar concepts. However, if your child is advanced in grammar (is comfortable and solid in basic parts of speech) it may be fine for him to start with Sentence Composing.  

 

Thank you! I have both of these coming.

[jelbe5]

I used these "Recipes for Writing" cards with my children - they could be done orally. It was a fun and inexpensive way to begin the writing process. Just a thought.

 

http://www.pennygardner.com/older.html

[Hakg]

Thank you - these look interesting.

[lllll]

..

[KungFuPanda]

I'm surprised nobody ever mentions Writer's Jungle. I think it's wonderful. You can investigate it at http://www.Bravewriter.com

[Hakg]

I'm surprised nobody ever mentions Writer's Jungle. I think it's wonderful. You can investigate it at http://www.Bravewriter.com

 

Someone did mention BW further up.  We use it a little (freewrites).  We have used other elements from BW in the past, however I prefer something a bit more structured.

[MerryAtHope]

Someone did mention BW further up.  We use it a little (freewrites).  We have used other elements from BW in the past, however I prefer something a bit more structured.

 

I always needed more structure too.

 

Does he want to focus mainly on creative writing right now? What about something like Karen Andreola's Story Starters? There are pictures and a story written right up to about the climax, and then the student gets to decide what happened and how the story ended. My dd enjoyed this one year and would alternate with grammar lessons (she was just a bit older though--we did this either 6th or 7th grade for her). Rainbow says grade 4-12.

 

Merry :-)

[ThisIsTheDay]

While *I* have always loved IEW, my oldest hated it.  She wrote very well on her own, and the IEW "formula" stilted her writing.  The outlining experience was good, though.  Andrew (Pudewa, of IEW) is one of my favorite homeschool encouragers. We use IEW occasionally or as a supplement, fitting it in where I believe it will benefit my kids.

 

I did not like Writing Strands at all. The author's writing, even in the instruction, is so juvenile, so annoying.  However, my kids both liked the program, so both used it almost every year from 3rd grade through high school   They knew that I wouldn't tolerate writing similar to the author's (haha). It's been a great fit--but imo, it needs to be used along with something else.  You can't beat the price either.

 

Fwiw, my dd had one of the highest scores in her Eng 111 dual enrollment/community college course last year. This year, she's one of the top two or three students in her college honors research writing course. While I'm not convinced that credit goes to Writing Strands, it obviously didn't hurt her either.

[fractalgal]

DS9 (grade 3) and I have tried really REALLY hard to like IEW.  We have tried to use it 3 times in the past year (only units 1 and 2) and we just cant stand it.  Sorry.

 

We are using WWE and have since the beginning (although we have taken some detours from time to time and always come back to WWE). We are about to finish up with WWE3.  The other writing DS does is Bravewriter freewrites, and he narrates for history/science.  I would call him a natural writer, and I think this could be one reason we found IEW so stifling.  In saying that, he doesn't like a lot of handwriting (physically).

 

For those who have tried IEW and felt the same way we do, what writing program did you prefer?

 

You are not alone.  My son has started using it this fall with the DVDs, and I'm already thinking of switching.  In our case, I think the videos take too long to make the point of what the program is supposed to teach.  Other books he has read have said the same thing with much less time.  I have more thoughts on it, but I'd like to withhold them a bit longer.  I am giving it a few more weeks to decide, but I have already started looking at other options for him.

 

My older daughter, who loves writing, really enjoys Writing Strands.  She thinks it gives her the most freedom to write want she wants, and it also teaches how to write from different perspectives.  She started in book 3 and has now progressed into book 6.  I think with this program, you see the best results when you stick with it for awhile.

 

She also does alternate her writing with Writing with Skill which I think helps her focus more on specific skills, of course.  It also gives more detail for the grader to see what to look for.

 

I think there is no harm in taking occasional detours in writing programs, and its been helpful for me to have more than one perspective at times.

 

For our favorites so far, I'd say Writing Strands and Writing with Skill.

[Hakg]

I always needed more structure too.

 

Does he want to focus mainly on creative writing right now? What about something like Karen Andreola's Story Starters? There are pictures and a story written right up to about the climax, and then the student gets to decide what happened and how the story ended. My dd enjoyed this one year and would alternate with grammar lessons (she was just a bit older though--we did this either 6th or 7th grade for her). Rainbow says grade 4-12.

 

Merry :-)

 

I have looked at this book before because I think DS would really enjoy it, however it only covers creative writing, and I was hoping for something that covers the different writing types in an introductory way.

 

I may go ahead and purchase it anyway as I know DS would enjoy using it. Thanks for the reminder Merry.

[Hakg]

You are not alone.  My son has started using it this fall with the DVDs, and I'm already thinking of switching.  In our case, I think the videos take too long to make the point of what the program is supposed to teach.  Other books he has read have said the same thing with much less time.  I have more thoughts on it, but I'd like to withhold them a bit longer.  I am giving it a few more weeks to decide, but I have already started looking at other options for him.

 

She also does alternate her writing with Writing with Skill which I think helps her focus more on specific skills, of course. 

 

 

I completely agree.  The lengthy DVD instruction to explain something fairly simple was frustrating to us also. I stopped asking DS to watch the DVD lesson, and instead I would watch it the night before, so I could teach him what was required the next day, and it saved us some time.  However it was not very thrilling for me to have to watch the lesson the night before.

 

My DS has only recently turned 9 (grade 3) so I think we will need to hold off on WWS for a year or 2. 

[Sarah CB]

I have looked at Writing Strands in the past and didn't like it - I cannot recall why though.

 

I looked at 8FillTheHearts posts and they look great, however, I need more hand holding to teach writing. 

 

linguistmama - I have CAP's W&R on order but have been wondering if after completion of WWE3, this may feel remedial? That might be another thread tho? 

 

It is interesting that there have been 225 views of this thread, but only a few who have spoken up about not liking IEW.  I do feel like we are the minority here, and sometimes wonder if I am just missing something fundamental with IEW (although I don't think so, I have watched 5 discs of the TWSS now, and still don't feel the love). 

 

I dislike IEW as well.  As a writer, I just can't get past the celebration of adverbs.  I prefer the writing approach taken in Classical Writing. I also really like WWS.  I'm not sure that you'd need to finish WWE 4 in order to be ready for WWS.  For the early grades (grades 3 - 5) I like Writing Tales.