new admissions pathway at Bard

[cave canem]

Apologies if such a thread has already been created.  I did search, but I find the search function on these fora inexplicably quirky.

 

http://www.bard.edu/news/releases/pr/fstory.php?id=2474

http://www.bard.edu/bardexam/

 

[maize]

I'd like to see more colleges make this an option.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I'm intrigued. 

 

Some of the essay prompts are in this article from Inside Higher Ed.  They do look like they would go a long ways toward revealing thinking and writing skills. 

[Barbara H]

Show me the senior who has time to write four effective 2,500 word research papers assigned October 1. I've never met a kid like this. The college bound seniors I see are busy - with courses, sports, volunteering, work, etc. This is way too much time to spend on one college application. I doubt many students will write 10,000 words of research paper and I think this is just a marketing move. They got an article in the New York Times out of it already.

[Ravin]

I can see where this would be helpful to a kid who is bright but has defects in how he or she will look on a traditional application--such as a juvie record, educational gaps because of illness or family's learning philosophy (unschooler), or lack of extracurriculars, or lack of $$ for tests and application fees, or lack of whatever passes for "well rounded" these days on an application, etc.

 

Also for non-traditional students who have been out of school for years and years and aren't confident of doing well on the SAT, etc., or whose high school transcript is outdated, I can see the value.

[Teachin'Mine]

Now I've seen something that makes the SAT/ACT look like a good idea. lol   I agree that there are very few who have the time for 1oK plus words.   I'm sure it would work for some.  Would be interesting to see a follow up and find out how many complete applications, all four essays, they receive, and how many make the B+ criteria.

[Nan in Mass]

Hmm... I think my son could write the essay about optimal play in a day. He has already spent lots of time thinking about this type of situation. (I have listened to many "optimal play" scenarios and explanations over the years lol.) I doubt it would require any research. His cousin could write the literature one fairly quickly. His friend could probably do a decent job with the Kant one in a weekend. I can see them all opting to do this, if they wanted to go to Bard, rather than all the idiotic nonsense involved in the standard application. Some of the friends did a less than stellar job on the standardized testing because they refused to play the game. If a student thought that Bard was their first choice (and if I remember correctly, Bard is unique enough to have students who felt strongly about this), then I can see a student choosing to put lots of time into the Bard application, picking a few other no-testing necessary LACs and putting a little time into their applications, and then applying to a state school that requires no essay (or two) as backup. Compared to the time some students I know spent on SAT2 prep, SAT prep, wracking their brains to come up with a common ap essay that weren't totally idiotic despite an entirely idiotic prompt, answering the other essays on all the suppliments, rounding up req's, putting in "official" community service hours on top of the ones they normally do that for some reason don't count, and doing an unwanted extra curric just to appear "well rounded", I think they would greet the idea of writing those essays with relief.

 

What I want to know is whether a student from a good high school who happened to pursue a hobby rather than an organized, application-worthy extra-curric (like being a bookworm or playing games with one's friends) and who refused to do the standard thing as far as classes or testing would STILL do ok applying this way, or whether this is unofficially only considered a back door for those who lacked the standard opportunities? Normally, the standard admissions line reads something like "we want to see that the student has taken advantage of the highest academic opportunitites available". What if one didn't do that but produced good essays?

 

Nan

I like what their president says (except for using "foreground" as a verb!)

 

 

 

“It’s kind of declaring war on the whole rigmarole of college admissions and the failure to foreground the curriculum and learning,†Leon Botstein, Bard’s president of 38 years, said in an interview. Saying the prevailing system was “loaded with a lot of nonsense that has nothing to do with learning,†he hailed the new approach as a “return to basics, to common sense†and added, “You ask the young person: are they prepared to do university-level work?â€

Dr. Botstein said he is not just out to change admissions at Bard, but to “start a debate about the kind of dishonesty that prevails†in college admissions.

 

 

 

But, I'm not quite sure the 4 x 2,500 word essays are the best way to go about this.  Seems like a lot of work for the applicant.  And imagine if you wanted to apply to four or five schools that each did this, all with their own essays.  I wonder how much time Bard would plan to spend reading the essays  -- how many graders would read each one?

[Nan in Mass]

Yes, if you extended this to all colleges, I don't think students would be applying to many colleges lol.  And the colleges would have a major problem grading them all.

 

I wonder how much of the current application situation is due to admissions officers drifting towards easier and easier methods of assessing - interviews, trivial personal essays, extra curricular activities, etc. They've outsourced any academic assessments to the schools themselves (gpa and rank), whoever ranks the schools, accreditation boards, and the testing companies.

 

Nan

[Catherine]

I read the original article and it was a breath of fresh air to me. I've already posted her before about my belief that college applications are an exercise in self-promotion extraordinaire. It's a format that works well for a specific kind of student but tends to leave some others, equally qualified IMO, looking mediocre. The essays in particular seem to me like an opportunity for cheating, but also, seem heavily favored by some schools as equalling GPA in consideration. That is just really outrageous to me.

 

I don't think many students will avail themselves of this opportunity, mostly because I think the great majority of high school seniors are not capable of writing at this level. However, for the "BS avoidant" student, who really is bright and ready to move on, it's a golden opportunity. I've always been interested in Leon Botstein. He is an original thinker and likes to shake things up.

[Kareni]

I'm reactivating this older thread as there was a recent article on this topic in the American Conservative.

 

Bard College Declares War on Admissions Rigmarole

 

A tidbit of interest: "Not surprisingly, it’s a rigorous exercise, and many students did not complete the process. The Times reports that only 50 people ended up submitting essays—applicants aged 14 through 23, hailing from seven countries and 17 states. Nine submissions were not complete. All three homeschooled applicants were accepted."  (my bolding)

 

The article does not state how many students of the fifty applicants were accepted.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[chiguirre]

I'm reactivating this older thread as there was a recent article on this topic in the American Conservative.

 

Bard College Declares War on Admissions Rigmarole

 

A tidbit of interest: "Not surprisingly, it’s a rigorous exercise, and many students did not complete the process. The Times reports that only 50 people ended up submitting essays—applicants aged 14 through 23, hailing from seven countries and 17 states. Nine submissions were not complete. All three homeschooled applicants were accepted."  (my bolding)

 

The article does not state how many students of the fifty applicants were accepted.

 

Regards,

Kareni

I'm not surprised the homeschoolers did well, they're the students who have the most flexibility to put their other work on hold and crank out the 4 essays. A typical b&m student would probably have to try and get them done over winter break or risk their regular course grades.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I'm not surprised the homeschoolers did well, they're the students who have the most flexibility to put their other work on hold and crank out the 4 essays. A typical b&m student would probably have to try and get them done over winter break or risk their regular course grades.

Yes and no. When I'm driving all over town to get kids to coop and music and sports I can only dream of the time saved by having them all under one roof.

 

And I had to roll my eyes at the students in "Accepted" who had a class devoted to college aps including crafting personal essays with teacher feedback for the better part of a semester.

[FaithManor]

Given the intense time constraints on the PS students, I think this process definitely favors the homeschooled student whose parent will set aside other writing assignments or the occasional private school willing to do the same. I know of one charter that has a high school essay writing class for credit and students can submit application essays as homework.

 

I'm not certain this is a practical approach to the problem, but maybe a first step towards institutions considering their college admission's dog and pony shows to be a disservice to a bank of qualified students that they would normally never consider.

[FaithManor]

As a follow up, I just checked in with my boys who are working on their presentation competition for TARC. They and the other team member who is homeschooled were churning out 500 words in 15 minutes, very well structured and requiring almost no editing. Our three publicly schooled members who are in the top 20% of their classes, were only capable of about 100 to 150 words in a half hour and that was with a lot of coaching from dh to help them get going and then a fair amount of editing help from our eldest boy, by far our most prolific writer. They just do not have enough depth in their writing backgrounds though really bright and capable students. My best guess is that one 2500 word essay would represent several hours spread over a number of evenings and weekends, and with lots of school homework, and the maintenance of extracurriculars that are either much loved activities or added to the plate specifically for the admission's game, four of these would represent undo stress for many students.

 

Now if Bard's main goal is to woo a feshman class of predominately prolific and passionate writers, then this might help them achieve that.

[Nan in Mass]

I don't know much about Bard, but the alternative schools I've investigated depend heavily on having students who can write.  They offer lots of writing instruction and support, but writing is the output of the student projects, and student projects seems to be the main emphasis of the classes.  You do a project and present your findings.  If that is the case at Bard, then Faith's idea of Bard's main goal possibly being "to woo a freshman class of predominately prolific and passionate writers" might well be the case.

 

Nan

[Reefgazer]

I might have missed it in one of the articles, but I wonder how they verify that the writing, editing, and proofreading are the work of the applicant?

[Dmmetler]

The high school (an arts magnet which also has a big presentation/writing focus) that I know of which has a writing heavy application also has students do a writing prompt physically on campus, the primary reason being to see if the writing on that unedited essay reads in the way that a rough draft of the polished essays would. The on-campus prompt, at least according to the girl I know who did it (who had been HSed to that point) was one that didn't require any specific research, while the ones for the application were ones that required either research, lots of prior knowledge, or both.

 

If they only had 50 kids take the writing route, I'm guessing a personal interview would also give an idea whether this student really could write at that level.