Tell me about Cleveland or Chicago (possible moves coming up)

[tammyw]

My husband is interviewing for some good positions in both Chicago, IL and Cleveland, Ohio. These aren't locations that were our number one choice, ever, but some good positions are coming up in these locations.

 

We've moved around because of the military (he is about to hit year 20) - I grew up in Western Canada, he's from Denver. He's moved around more than I have, but we've been married 14 years and have lived San Diego, Hawaii, NC, and now San Diego again.

 

I always said my first choices would be Denver or Seattle, because I'd love the seasons again and I love the culture of both those cities. The right positions aren't coming up in those spots though, and I want him to move into a career in which he'd be happy, so that's definitely a priority.

 

Just trying to figure out what life would be like in either of these places, and how I would adjust.

 

A little about what we like:

 

- We like the arts - theater, symphony, ballet (my daughter is heavily into ballet / musical theater and she will absolutely want to continue that wherever we go)

- We hate humidity (and I would prefer a cooler climate over a blazing hot one - for example, I think Florida or Texas might kill me)

- We love that San Diego has a lot to offer in terms of field trips and museums

- We really aren't beach people - we loved Hawaii's beaches, but we're not that excited by S.CA's offerings

- We love that we can file as a private school in CA and don't really have oversight in that area (lots of people here are part of charters, but I've never felt the need)

- We like organic food and love that there are several options here

 

TIA for any advice!
 

[Tangerine]

Are you planning on living IN Chicago, or in the suburbs?  Honestly, Chicago is big enough that you can find just about anything you're looking for.  I mean, we even have beaches!  Lake Michigan beaches, but still.  And you want cold?  We can arrange that.  Culturally, Chicago will have all of the things you're looking for.

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

Both Chicago and Cleveland have major tier 1 orchestras, and both cities have ballet companies with pre-college divisions. Chicago Symphony is outsdanding - very muscular sound.

 

I often poke around the forums on City Data, just to see, you know, where my post-powerball second home might be.  There's bound to be someone there who has already posted similar questions:

 

http://www.city-data.com/forum/

[Catwoman]

I often poke around the forums on City Data, just to see, you know, where my post-powerball second home might be. There's bound to be someone there who has already posted similar questions:

 

http://www.city-data.com/forum/

I like the City-Data forums, too! No matter what forum you visit, though, there's always at least one person who posts constantly about how the area is absolutely perfect and it's all cuddly puppies and adorable ponies and flying unicorns and fluffy kittens and nobody better say otherwise OR ELSE... and then there's always at least one other person who posts constantly about how he used to live there and hated every last thing about that horrible, crime-ridden, rat-and-cockroach infested sewer of a place, and nobody better say otherwise OR ELSE!!! :rolleyes:

 

Once you get past the unavoidable couple of extremists, you can get a lot of excellent information on City-Data.

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

True, there are trolls afoot.

 

www.collegeconfidential.com

 

is fun for the same reason, and has the same pitfalls.

[tammyw]

I was kind of figuring that Chicago would be fine regardless, but am still worried about Cleveland. No organic grocery stores? Oh my. That would be ROUGH. It looks like there is a Whole Foods 26 minutes outside Cleveland in University Heights. I don't know that area AT ALL.

 

I don't know exactly where we'd live for either of these positions, but am just trying to figure out how I'd like either of them. This process can be scary and exciting all in one.

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

There must be organic in Chicago -- it has the population to support it.  Try www.eatwild.com/products/illinois.html, or www.freshpicks.com.

[Tangerine]

Yes.  In Chicago you have your pick of major chain, indie grocery, CSAs, co-ops for meat/eggs/etc for organics and local foods.  I moved to the suburbs 2 years ago, and I still have all those options within easily reasonable driving distance.

[snowbeltmom]

There are organic grocery stores in Cleveland and local groceries that sell both organic and non-organic products.

[Harriet Vane]

I grew up in the Chicago suburbs and also lived in the city for fourteen years.

 

Chicago definitely has many of the things you like. The arts scene is wonderful and vibrant. There are lots of international people groups and lovely restaurants with their international cuisines.

 

Homeschooling is really easy--you just do it. No filing anything, no meeting with anyone. There are tons and tons of homeschool co-ops, support groups, and resources.

 

Downsides are that the humidity in July and August can be awful, and it's really congested.

 

If he does accept a job in Chicago, pm me and I can answer any specific questions.

 

Edited to add--You can get organic food virtually anywhere through Whole Foods, Trader Joes, myriad food co-ops, and tiny specialty stores.

[dancingmama]

Chicago and many of the surrounding suburbs will have what you are looking for.  My daughter dances and when we lived out there, there were plenty of options, in the city and outside the city. The city has orchestra concerts, even free ones in the park in the summer.  Lots of theater and several performances of Nutcracker all over.   Plenty of organic, both in regular stores and at farmer's market.  Lots of museums with homeschool specific field trip/classes offered. Lots of active homeschooling co-ops and field trip groups.  You don't have to file as anything in IL.  Only requirement is that you keep attendance and teach the standard classes, but noone to report too.  Any idea what city your husband would end up in?  That would help narrow things down.  

[chiguirre]

This won't be very helpful, but I couldn't let the opportunity pass me by:

 

Cleveland: MISTAKE BY THE LAKE

 

as any Pittsburgher will tell you. Now, back to your regularly scheduled thread....

[northcoast]

We used to live in a Cleveland suburb and lived there 6 years.  I'd pick Cleveland over Chicago any day.  Cost of living and traffic I wouldn't want to deal with in Chicago.  If you live closer to the lake it's less humid, south of I-90 can get more humid in the summer.  The Cleveland Orchestra is awesome having student matinees that our homeschool group attended when offered.  With all the colleges around you should be able to get the arts you want (Clev Institute of Music, Baldwin Wallace, Oberlin).  The metro parks system is good.

 

If you don't like snow, avoid any suburb with "Heights" in the name.  West of downtown and closer to the lake get less snow than the eastside.  Oh, and don't live in Chardon if you don't like snow.

 

There are field trip opportunities.  We probably didn't do as much maybe as you like.

 

Homeschooling - file a notification with the school district.  Before filing a notification for the 2nd year of homeschooling you have to provide either statement signed by a licensed teacher that your child is working at his level, or standardized test scores.  http://www.cheohome.org/get-started/how-to-begin/

 

We've been out of OH for 3 years but PM if you want more info.  I'd go back to Cleveland if I could!

 

edited to fix typo and add link

[Acadie]

No info about Chicago, but Cleveland would not be a fit for anything you have listed here. You should be able to fine SOME arts, but it's not a culture-saturated place. Ahem. To say the least. Cleveland is really fantastic for younger children. They have the best parks system I have seen, replete with free Nature and Science centers, and of course a good zoo. There is exactly one (1) organic vegetable stand at the market downtown. Outlying farmer's markets are a little better for that, June-Sept.

 

There are very distinct seasons in the Cleve.

 

Au contraire, the arts are very much alive and well in Cleveland!  Google the Cleveland Orchestra, Playhouse Square, the phenomenal Cleveland Museum of Art, Cleveland Music Settlement, Cleveland Institute of Art, Cleveland Institute of Music, and the Market Garden reading series.  I know less about dance opportunities, but would be surprised if there aren't world class schools and dance companies as in the other arts.

 

Moving here from Boston (with dh coming from Chicago) we've both been amazed at how accessible arts and culture are in Cleveland.  Easy to park, cheap ticket prices compared to other cities, so many opportunities for kids to get involved and learn from masters.  Plus there's a whole lot of funk and soul--I've never seen anything like Parade the Circle anywhere else.  The public library system is award-winning and from the user standpoint THE BEST I've ever encountered.  I've been able to get every book I could wish for, with only a handful of exceptions, over the past 12 years.  Great classes for homeschoolers at all the museums and zoo, too.

 

The West Side Market is not jam packed with organic produce, but there are tons of other options.  Two Whole Foods stores within 10 min of my house.  We're in an organic produce CSA and a raw milk herdshare where we get grassfed beef.  Really phenomenal restaurants, world famous chefs that feature local food.  Affordable, gorgeous neighborhoods.  Diversity with a history of integration and a thriving black middle and upper class, in some areas, that I never saw growing up around Boston.

 

Downsides are the Cleveland has not taken advantage of its waterfront the way Boston and Chicago have, the city is struggling with loss of population and all the economic ramifications of that, and the environmental effects of being in the industrial midwest are real.  You would notice the difference compared to the west coast or Colorado.  

 

Cleveland is a gem, with all the advantages of a major city and far fewer hassles.  Some challenges, to be sure, but I love living here!  PM me if you want more specific info on neighborhoods, etc.

 

Amy

[Acadie]

Just wanted to add that homeschooling here is easy.  The requirements to notify the district and do either standardized testing or have a teacher review a portfolio (which is what we've done) don't take much time.  And we do live in one of the Heights, and the snow is not bad at all.  East of here it definitely can get dicey, though.  

 

The west side of Cleveland has a more midwestern feeling, and the eastern suburbs are more like the east coast in terms of politics, arts opportunities, etc.  Some people say the line runs right through the city, dividing the eastern part of the country from the midwest.

 

Amy

[6packofun]

I'm not sure where people are getting their info, but Cleveland has the 2nd largest theatre district in the nation.  Ahem.  We have the world-renowned Cleveland Art Museum and University Circle offers a few other museums and botanical gardens that we see all the time.  Our zoo is pretty good and getting better (lol), and there is a lot to do downtown.  Do you want to live downtown?  No, but you can find plenty of nice areas nearby.  It IS somewhat spread out and driving time may or may not be something you have to readjust to depending on what it's like where you live.  I love our sports teams, although I'm used to being razzed about cheering for the Browns.  LOL  I don't know what you consider "cultured" and I know Cleveland has been stereotypically panned, but I think it is cultured simply because there are so many pockets of ethnic diversity like Little Italy, Slavic Village, etc.  But those may not be cultures that interest you.  (I never really know what people mean when they say "culture" in a positive way.  Every place is a culture...)

 

I've been to several organic food stores so unless it HAS to be Whole Foods, you can choose from many smaller ones scattered throughout...Trader Joe's in a couple places, Earth Fare, Mustard Seed Market (my favorite), and a few of our larger chain grocery stores have a good organics selection.  This is one of those things where you will have to ask for recommendations in the neighborhood and people will steer you to the right places!  I'm pretty sure West Side Market has some organic choices...it's pretty awesome.

 

Obviously I'm partial since I live here.  LOL  I actually love Chicago, too, but don't know the area well enough to comment.  I think the seasons here in Cleveland are wonderful, too!  There can be some humidity in the summer, but it depends on the year.  We have our negatives, of course, but you need to research and weigh them for yourself.  :)  (I WILL say that finding homeschooling groups here has not been the easiest for me.  They are around, but many people here seem to choose cyber charters.  Although we have friends who have been in an unschooling network for years and years.  I just haven't had any luck and don't want to travel a lot for that.)

[jelbe5]

Lifelong resident of Illinois, have always lived in the Chicagoland area.

 

We live in the northern suburbs.  Illinois has may problems (politics, higher cost of living).  BUT it is a very homeschool friendly state.

 

I love being able to access the wonderful museums, zoos, cultural events, etc. that Chicago and vicinity has to offer.

 

Public transportation is GREAT so you would have options if you wanted to live farther out and have your dh commute.

 

Lots of organic stores.  Love living near the lake.  It can be very hot and humid in the summer and cold/snowy in the winter.  The weather changes rapidly in this area.

 

Feel free to pm me if you have specific questions.

[northcoast]

Acadie & 6packofun have stated things better than I did.  We didn't take advantage of all Cleveland had to offer as our children were younger and we stuck closer to home.

[PeterPan]

I was kind of figuring that Chicago would be fine regardless, but am still worried about Cleveland. No organic grocery stores? Oh my. That would be ROUGH. It looks like there is a Whole Foods 26 minutes outside Cleveland in University Heights. I don't know that area AT ALL.

 

I don't know exactly where we'd live for either of these positions, but am just trying to figure out how I'd like either of them. This process can be scary and exciting all in one.

Tammy, I've been to Cleveland a few times on day trips, and (ahem) I would guess the reason there's only one Whole Foods there is economic.  Move close to where that Whole Foods is, and you'd probably find everything you're wanting.  In Columbus there's tons of everything.  It's not the state or the region but that particular city.  The things we did there were nice (Health Museum, the Cod, etc.), but it has a lot of run down areas too.  So for Cleveland it's all going to be about where you go.

 

You didn't mention this, but is there a pay difference between going to Chicago and Cleveland?  Your dollar is going to go a LOT farther in Cleveland than Chicago, I would think.  Check into housing costs.  

 

As far as homeschooling, it's very straightforward in Ohio.  Yes you can school under the 08 (private school) law, but the actual homeschool laws are very easy to work under too.  It takes me just a few minutes a year to comply.  

 

If you do Cleveland, you'd be close to the lake, which I think you'd enjoy.  Many people from central Ohio go up to the lake on the weekends, because it's very nice up there, with islands and parks and beaches and stuff.  Yes you'll get lake effect, but I assume you're used to some snow.  No, I would not assume it's unusually humid.  That's the South (VA, SC, etc.).  Take that back.  Yes, the midwest is more humid than out west (ND, SD).  I remember my aunt commenting on the humidity increase as she came back from SD.  But that's comparing dry with normal.  It's not unusually humid the way the south is.  You're just going to get more lake effect snow up there.  I joke with my mother (who lives in northern IN, sort of like how you'd be in Cleveland), that when we get an inch, she gets a foot.  But it will still be nice.  The circus comes, and there are multitudes of historical attractions within a reasonable drive.  You'd also be close to Amish country.  Many people will take day trips from Columbus to Amish country, and I suspect people in Cleveland do as well.  Ohio is just a very nice place to live.   :)

 

Chicago you realize is the Windy City, right?  Like they aren't joking.  We almost got stuck living there, because my dad was transferred there at one point.  We could NOT afford to live there, so we moved in with my grandparents a couple hours away while my dad completed his enlistment.  It's very expensive, very windy.  I know people like it.  Nuts, my step-sister lives right downtown!  Not me though, whew.  And if you live further out, you have the commute and traffic. You've got a whole tempo and tenor difference there.  Think NYC vs. Mayberry.  Not exactly the same, but they'll be different.  I would do Cleveland and just get into a part of the city or surrounding areas that you like.  It will blur with Akron, Canton, etc.  

 

Btw, you do know Kroger carries organic, right?  So go to the Kroger website, see where their stores are, and see if they're marked as carrying organic.  I can get most of my stuff now at Kroger and the amish stores, so I only need to go to Whole Foods on occasion.  Trader Joes will also have some stuff. There's also a chain Raisin Rack that I think has stores up that way.  Everything you want is there.  If you like state parks, hiking, etc. there are some nice ones up that way.  

[tammyw]

Everyone has given me some good information to go on, and has helped me feel we'll be okay if we land in either of these places.

 

We actually don't shop at Whole Foods here, because the closest one is over 30 minutes - we shop at Trader Joe's and a local health food store, and it sounds like we'd be well covered regardless. I'm just not a "buy everything at Ralphs or Von's" kind of girl, and wanted to make sure we'd have good food options.

 

I'm also glad to hear the arts are well covered even in Cleveland.

 

Honestly, we're not afraid of snow. I grew up in Western Canada - pretty sure there aren't too many places that get more snow or colder (other than further north!) I miss the snow.

 

Funny, the two particular jobs he's interviewing for - the higher salary one is Cleveland, so we'd be substantially better off there based on the lower cost of living, which is a plus. We also know that we could end up somewhere for a couple years and then move on, so really, I just wanted to make sure there wasn't something *really* wrong with either choice, especially when it comes to homeschooling.

 

I think we'll do well wherever we land, but it's fun to investigate and make sure there are options to keep everyone in the family happy. I kind of like the idea of being able to park easily in Cleveland, without it being a big production with a huge cost every time we go to any show (like San Diego!)

 

Thanks for all the great insight :)

[Tangerine]

Chicago you realize is the Windy City, right? Like they aren't joking.

According to Wikipedia, Chicago is not significantly windier than any other US city. The term is up for debate. http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2006/07/for_our_out_of_.html