I love WWE but...

[zenjenn]

Sometimes I wonder what SWB was smoking when she wrote some of this stuff..

 

 

Before you read, tell the student you will read the sentence only three times before asking her to write, and will not repeat it afterwards.

 

"The imposters requested him very courteously to be so good as to come nearer their looms, and then asked him whether the design pleased him, and whether the colors were not very beautiful, while at the same time pointing to the empty frames."

 

 

Now, I consider myself a fairly intelligent adult, and I'm pretty sure I'd have to hear that sentence no less than half a dozen times before I'd remember it accurately. Seems like a tall order for a 9-yr-old! 

 

[Mom2TheTeam]

We are not at that level of WWE yet, but I would have to work on that for several days before I'd be able to reproduce it.  :lol:

[boscopup]

:lol: And this is why I do not follow those directions!

[hollyhock]

Is that from the workbook?

 

In the Instructor Text, it says that by the end of year 4, students should be able to take a dictation of 25-30 words. That's as long as they ever get. The one you quoted is 43 words long! It seems there is a big difference between the Instructor Text and the workbook assignments, which is another reason why I use the text and pick my own sentences.

 

I would definitely cut that down or pick something else.

[boscopup]

Yes, the workbooks are more difficult than what the instructor text tells you to do.

[Haiku]

Yeah, I bought WWE3 (workbook) thinking it would make things easier for my son.

 

Yeah ... right. The WWE3 workbook is what convinced me to give up WWE for ds.

[Soror]

We are just in Week 6 now of WWE3 and the sentences have actually seemed easier than they were at the end of WWE2. I repeat how many times it is needed. Ds generally does fairly well, he can usually remember it faster than I can actually. I don't sweat it too much.

[zenjenn]

Yes, that was the workbook. WWE4.

 

I often modify. In this case, I think it was kind of a poor choice as that is a sentence I would critique the heck out of in student writing. It's just too long.  I repeated it in segments, which kind of defeated the purpose of having the student identify where the commas go. Fortunately with this student, she is very bright and a good speller, and she definitely already *gets* commas and such. I like the workbooks not only for the convenience, but because they expose my kids to a greater variety of literature than I would just with our literature selections. I just know I have to deviate from the directions frequently.

 

Still, I think it's funny, and I wonder what the thinking was behind some of those selections!

[Occasionally]

If I told DD that it would only be repeated three times, she would panic before even hearing the passage. 

 

Last week I had to break up a dictation. It was just too much for that day (W5D4 of WWE4.) 

[Alice]

Yes, the workbooks are more difficult than what the instructor text tells you to do.

 

That’s interesting. Maybe I should have read the instructor text more closely. :)

 

I ended up stopping dictation completely for awhile and just doing the other days. Ds was fine doing the days where he was writing down his own narration but not the dictation sentence day. It just became too much of a battle. I then started doing them a little but we took a new approach. I thought about what I wanted him to get from it as a skill, which was being able to hear something and reproduce the idea even if it wasn’t word for word. I could see that being useful in note-taking in a lecture, etc. That may not be the actual purpose of dictation as SWB outlines it but it was what I thought of as its purpose. Then keeping that in mind I became more flexible in the dictations, so if he could do them but changed a word or two or left our a word or two but kept the same idea I was fine with it. 

[HRAAB]

Some of the dictation selections in WWE 4 have 50 to 60+ words.  My girls could not do it, and they have worked through all levels of WWE.  Sometimes I would be forced to dictate the selection by phrases, or it would not be done.  Other times I would do a studied dictation: allow them to study it first, or use it for copywork, and then dictate.

 

They were very difficult.  I could not do them after hearing it only three times.  I made it work for us.

[kiwik]

So if they haven't got it after 3 times what are you supposed to do?

[Chrysalis Academy]

Watch the Peace Hill Press video of SWB doing dictation with one of her sons - he is older, even, and she repeated sections for him repeatedly, as many times as it took to get it done.

 

I think it's a great example of the (sometimes gaping) gap between idealism & reality . . .  :lol:

 

ETA:  Here it is . . . and he's 13!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9fXrQVOOo8

[Mom2TheTeam]

Yes, the workbooks are more difficult than what the instructor text tells you to do.

 

Why do you think this is? 

 

I have the text because it gives the background info and tells you where you are headed, which I like.  But, we use WWE workbook daily.  I wonder why it is harder.  I have not had to yet, but I would just modify where needed if it's too hard. 

[ZeldaRules]

So if they haven't got it after 3 times what are you supposed to do?

Threaten them with extra sentences.  One sentence for every time I have to repeat the sentence.

 

It will make them listen better.  LOL!

 

For a sentence as long as in this example, I would break it down in phrases of however many words I thought he could comfortably remember.

[2queens&1princenmyhouse]

I am so glad I read this!!!  I was just coming to post about how difficult the dictation was and wondering if I shouldn't back up to WWE3 or below.  I have a 5th grader and that particular dictation was murder!

[zenjenn]

2queens - I have a 5th grader too.  She was doing WWE 1 year behind largely because of dyslexia issues and being able to read out loud longer and having no/simpler dictation was necessary (in 1st grade, her writing/spelling was so cripplingly atrocious, I couldn't even consider WWE1), but by the end of WWE3, I felt the narration and reading comprehension question portions were absolutely trivial to her, and while the dictation was still a fair challenge, I didn't feel dictation skills alone was a reason to continue holding her back.

 

So I decided to skip WWE4 with her and go directly to WWS1.

 

So far, my 5th grader is really enjoying WWS1 and I am meanwhile doing WWE4 with my 3rd grader and I couldn't be happier (so far) with the choice I've made. While WWE4 is fine for the 3rd grader (a gifted student who is a spelling whiz and has slick penmanship), I know WWE4 would have been yet more annoyance for the 5th grader, who found dictation a struggle but had excellent reading comprehension. Being able read the instructions, reference the text, and write independently is really boosting her confidence and I think she's getting a lot more out of it than she would have gotten out of WWE4, which would have been more of the same from last year and a tedious chore. I still like WWE4 for my 3rd grader, who due to just maturity issues would probably not do well with the kind of multi-step independent work WWS requires, but for the 5th grader, just.. great. Probably not for every 5th grader, but for mine the skip was great. We still work on spelling, but through a dedicated spelling program. Hanging back with WWE4 for memory and spelling only when the rest of the skills were ready to move on would have just been holding her back, I think.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I think using the more difficult dictations as copy work instead is still a very good exercise.

[Classically Minded]

Ok, that is crazy!  I do wonder why the workbook has longer sentences than the text says to give for each level?  We started WWE3 and dd9 couldn't do the dictation,, so I did email SWB and someone replied (not her) that I needed to go back to WWE2 if my dd couldn't get the dictation after 2 tries.  So we did go back to WWE2 and it feels like a waste of time because she remembers the stories, etc. 

[SorrelZG]

After watching the linked video I found the Q&A video on dictation that discusses the length of the passages in 3 & 4. It doesn't explain the difference with the core text, though.

[Mom2TheTeam]

I liked hearing that video.  I'd still like to know why there is a discrepancy between the two...which is "correct?"  Which is "better?"  Does it even matter??  KWIM?

[FLDebbie]

At the end of WWE2, some of the challenge divtations were rather difficult. My husband had our son make motions while trying to remember the words (kind of like pantomimes). It worked great for him. I'll never forget the proud look on his face one evening at dinner when he could still remember the passage. I don't think I would have ever thought of that, but for kids who like to move, like our son, it worked wonderfully.

[Penelope]

I'm not sure that level 3 is harder than the main text says, but neo I'm curious and will have to check. I knew level 4 was different.

 

I have one child doing level 3 now. When he has trouble ith a dictation it's usually because of one or a few particular words. If he doesn't get it after a few tries, I write the trouble word down before he repeats, for him to use as a help. I also would break things down into two parts if needed. The goal is to lengthen the number of ords they can hold in their head as they write. It does no good to frustrate them, so if we need to scaffold them to get there, I think it's fine.

 

I would not go back a while level or dictations. I would split the dictations up, or make up my own at the level that would gently stretch my child's abilities.