Why is Math Important? (ISO resources to show my son)

[tammyw]

DS7 is very good at math, but he hates DOING it. We are currently using Singapore Math 2a (dd10 is on level 5a).

 

We also play a lot of math games, read mathy books, etc. DS7 says he wants to be an engineer when he grows up. He's a SMART kid. But he hates doing the work. DD10 is great now but we struggled with her a bit at this age also.

 

So I'm trying to find resources that would show him WHY math is important (I've tried telling him all the instances where math is important in daily life, but I think it would be better received it comes from other sources eg books, web sites, etc.)

 

Anyone have some great (and INTERESTING!) sources they can share or recommend?

 

TIA!

[Arcadia]

Telling doesn't work so well for my boys. Math games like Monopoly are great but no substitute to real life in their case. We gave them cash to pay for food, groceries and toys. The cashiers have punch in the wrong code or given the wrong change to them before. They know they have to calculate total amount including tax and what is the amount of change to get back before paying.

We started out with McDonalds Dollar Menu so it was $1.09 with tax and kids would count out either the exact amount or expect a penny back if they pay a dollar and a dime.

[Crimson Wife]

Math skills predict the risk of foreclosure better than education level or type of mortgage: http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/math-challenged-americans-more-likely-end-foreclosure-6C10429260

[Farrar]

I like the ideas above about money math which may help, but to some extent it might just be a stage many kids just have to go through, unfortunately.

[Dana]

And in the importance of showing work clearly, the first Mars rover was lost because of a unit conversion error. Lots of articles about this. Here's one http://www.wired.com/thisdayintech/2010/11/1110mars-climate-observer-report/

[craftymama]

Plan a party, plan your vacation, have him build something...whatever you do in life requires math so make him do something and then challenge him to do it without math. He wants to be an engineer, pull out a calculus book and show him some problems.

[thebacabunch]

Compare  STEM to non STEM job salaries with you son.  Worked like a charm for my kids.

[Snickerdoodle]

If your son is smart and mathy, then I think perhaps he's not working at the right level and you may need to bump him up a bit.    Is it possible he could move faster through the material so you could use more interesting supplements (like Beast Academy or Zacarro's books)?

[jennynd]

I show my Son my work and he also get to go to my Husband's work place few times. Both our jobs involved heavy math. So my Kids do know that math is critical, I also gave him examples what would happen if I make a mistake in my work. It will almost always involve someone's life and we are taking math very seriously .

Do you know someone who is an engineer? Can the person show your kid his or her work and have a little chat?

[Lanny]

7 is very young. If he really wants to become an Engineer, when he is older, he will need a lot of Math, or he will not be able to enroll in many of the Science courses that are required. Patience is required here...

[boscopup]

DS7 is very good at math, but he hates DOING it. We are currently using Singapore Math 2a (dd10 is on level 5a).

 

We also play a lot of math games, read mathy books, etc. DS7 says he wants to be an engineer when he grows up. He's a SMART kid. But he hates doing the work. DD10 is great now but we struggled with her a bit at this age also.

 

So I'm trying to find resources that would show him WHY math is important (I've tried telling him all the instances where math is important in daily life, but I think it would be better received it comes from other sources eg books, web sites, etc.)

 

Well, if he wants to be an engineer, the answer would be: "Because it takes a lot of math to get an engineering degree." :) I have an electrical engineering degree. Just about every course I took in college involved math in some manner.

 

I agree with PPs that if he is good at math and is a smart kid, he may not be placed correctly. Doing 1st or 2nd grade math when you're capable of doing 3rd or 4th grade math IS boring. What happens if you skip to a "new" topic (one he truly hasn't done before)? Have there been any topics that spark his interest?

[tammyw]

Well, if he wants to be an engineer, the answer would be: "Because it takes a lot of math to get an engineering degree." :) I have an electrical engineering degree. Just about every course I took in college involved math in some manner.

 

I agree with PPs that if he is good at math and is a smart kid, he may not be placed correctly. Doing 1st or 2nd grade math when you're capable of doing 3rd or 4th grade math IS boring. What happens if you skip to a "new" topic (one he truly hasn't done before)? Have there been any topics that spark his interest?

 

Oh I say this all the time "engineers have to be really good at math". I think part of it is just his age. Maybe I will try something harder, just to see. I've had that comments once before. He recently started playing video games (we finally bought him a game system for his birthday after holding out for a long time). He is now really good at adding up big numbers and he said it's all due to playing video games and adding up the points. It was quite impressive!

 

My biggest fear of jumping to a higher level in math would be missing out on learning certain elements. Maybe we just need to breeze through certain sections though rather than using the review, as he really does seem to have it down.

 

This is all new to me. My dd10 needs the review for math much of the time. She's more my creative kid.

[Crimson Wife]

These arguments don't work when you get to algebra though.

 

I struggle with this as well.  DH has been pretty good about explaining it.  My explanation after flailing around usually boils down to "if you want to go to college...."  Truth is that IS one of the biggest reasons.  Lots of people don't use higher math ever in their lives and my son isn't dumb enough to not notice that.

Algebra I don't have a problem showing is a useful topic. It's geometry and the early trig that is part of pre-algebra that are the hardest. Engineers I know use it, but my DD has absolutely no interest in becoming one. So I'm stuck with pointing out that geometry will be on the SAT and the GRE if she decides to go for her master's or PhD.

[Tracy]

If he is good at math, it may be that the math he is doing seems like busywork to him.  He may need exposure to higher level concepts to keep it interesting and engaging.  My dd8 would shrivel up and die if I gave her just 2nd and 3rd grade math work :svengo: .  While she is not ready for a complete higher level curriculum, she does need to play with higher level ideas on a regular basis.  CSMP is a really great program for her, because it has these higher level "teasers" built in to the program.  And when she is really interested, I can take her even further on my own.  It is amazing what a difference this makes in her attitude toward math.   :thumbup1:

[tammyw]

If he is good at math, it may be that the math he is doing seems like busywork to him.  He may need exposure to higher level concepts to keep it interesting and engaging.  My dd8 would shrivel up and die if I gave her just 2nd and 3rd grade math work :svengo: .  While she is not ready for a complete higher level curriculum, she does need to play with higher level ideas on a regular basis.  CSMP is a really great program for her, because it has these higher level "teasers" built in to the program.  And when she is really interested, I can take her even further on my own.  It is amazing what a difference this makes in her attitude toward math.   :thumbup1:

 

What is CSMP?

[Tracy]

What is CSMP?

 

 

Here is my blog post explaining CSMP.  It is not for everybody.  It is teacher intensive, for one.  But if you have a kid that likes math discussions and playing with numbers, it is great.  

[Chrysalis Academy]

I've picked up Ed Zaccaro's book "The Ten Things All Future Mathematicians and Scientists Must Know (But are Rarely Taught)" and while I hate typing out  the whole title, I think the content looks pretty interesting.  It's kind of a meld of math, critical thinking/logic, scientific method, statistics, but it looks perfect for a kid (like mine) who likes to see the big picture, likes to know why she needs to learn something, and needs to see the connections between fields of study, and to understand the context of math.  Your son might like it, and it might help him connect math to things that he finds interesting . . . maybe?

[msk]

I think geometry is one of the easier types of math to show practical applications of, but I realize that's not much help with a 7yo...  Things like figuring out how much mulch to buy for the garden every year, how much wood for a birdhouse, how much cloth for a sewing project, etc. are things we have to do in "real life."

 

Archaeologists also use this all the time to figure out how to lay out a perfect square or rectangle of various sizes using tape measures, the volume of dirt that came out of said square hole, the density of artifacts on the surface of the square, artifact density in stratigraphic layers of various thicknesses, etc.  We use those artifact densities to compare parts of the site, figure out which areas are trash-filled vs filled by other depositional processes, and things like that.

[daijobu]

If you believe that the so-called "post labor society" is indeed imminent, you can tell him that he will either be creating and programming robots...or have his job replaced by one.  The former requires some math.  

 

ETA:  I also believe that solving math problems makes you smarter.  If you want to hang out with smart people, it helps to be one.  I really believe this.

[Crimson Wife]

I think geometry is one of the easier types of math to show practical applications of, but I realize that's not much help with a 7yo...  Things like figuring out how much mulch to buy for the garden every year, how much wood for a birdhouse, how much cloth for a sewing project, etc. are things we have to do in "real life."

That's not the kind of geometry my DD is doing now and complaining about. She's working through those problems where she has to calculate the lengths of sides of a triangle using the Pythagorean Theorem or calculate angles in a polygon, etc. The only time I've ever had to do that kind of geometry work since 9th grade has been when I took the SAT and then the GRE.

[Tanikit]

I don't think it is the entire math course that you need to show your child he may need some day - just the part you are expecting him to do now. Maybe he needs a change from just doing workbooks - put the math he has been doing in the workbooks into real life - let him go to a restaurant and make him add up the bill and pay for it (take away the decimals if need be so he is adding numbers

0-999), ask him how much 2 or 3 of a certain item would cost when out grocery shopping for times tables and then buy two or three of the item. It needs to mean something - you can't just ask and then not buy so use something you would have bought anyway, but that he really wants and tell him he can have it if he can work it out. He still will not want to do the workbooks, but he may be happier about why he has done the workbook when he can more easily do the math for the real life application you give him.

[tammyw]

We were learning carrying today (eg 248+377). Instead of a problem like that though, I created problems like 8,876,509 + 2,935,607. He liked that! And he got it quickly, so no issues.

[Arcadia]

We were learning carrying today (eg 248+377). Instead of a problem like that though, I created problems like 8,876,509 + 2,935,607. He liked that! And he got it quickly, so no issues.

My older liked to create that kind of problems and then compete with my hubby to see who solved first. How about letting your child create his own problems? Mine created his own geometry problems too.

Your child may honestly be bored at the pace.

[Incognito]

I'm sure you've considered it, but Life of Fred shows math's usefulness and fun in life.

 

[boscopup]

We were learning carrying today (eg 248+377). Instead of a problem like that though, I created problems like 8,876,509 + 2,935,607. He liked that! And he got it quickly, so no issues.

 

Great!

 

My comment about placing him higher wasn't intended to have you skip grades, but to cruise through the topics. Some topics, just have him do a few problems, and if it's obvious he knows how to do it really well, move on to the next lesson. When I was accelerating my oldest, I usually used reviews and did less of the main lesson exercises. That way, he was still getting review, but we weren't spending a lot of time on a topic he already fully understood. And if he were to have struggled with a problem type during review, I would know to go back to the topic and do more problems on it (never happened, but it was my plan if it ever did :D ). For things like what you posted above, when my son learned 2-digit, he automatically knew any number of digits. So when we came to 3-digit in the next grade, I had him practice a few problems to demonstrate knowledge, then we moved on. We were using MM, so I would give chapter tests to skip a chapter, and I gave the end of book test for 2B (which was mostly 3-digit addition/subtraction) before skipping that entire book. We mostly did our skipping in 1st/2nd grade math. We didn't skip as much in 3rd, but we did cruise through individual topics, just doing a few problems and moving on. By time we hit 4th grade math, things were more interesting. We still sometimes had to cruise through a few topics (like place value - he's had that solid since K), but we didn't really skip much. And I think we did everything in the 5th grade book. It's just those early grades can be super easy for a mathy kid, and as you've seen, they can often take a concept and apply it to bigger numbers on their own, whereas most math programs spend each year learning some of the same topics with bigger numbers. So he learned about 2-digit addition/subtraction, then the next year he learns 3-digit, then the next year he learns 4-digit, then the next year he learns 5-digit. But he understood all of that from the very first 2-digit explanation. :)

[amy58103]

Have you seen the Real Life Math series.  Working on these every once in a while might make things more interesting for him. 

[msk]

That's not the kind of geometry my DD is doing now and complaining about. She's working through those problems where she has to calculate the lengths of sides of a triangle using the Pythagorean Theorem or calculate angles in a polygon, etc. The only time I've ever had to do that kind of geometry work since 9th grade has been when I took the SAT and then the GRE.

 

Archaeologists do use that-- if the excavation unit I am laying out has sides of lengths X and Y and I want to make sure it is really square, how long should the hypotenuse of a triangle dividing the square in half be?  We'd hammer a pin in one corner, use two tape measures to measure out the two sides, and use a third to get the hypotenuse correct (and thus a right angle) before hammering in the other two pins, then use the two original tape measures to locate the last pin and lay out a rectangle with accurate 90 degree angles instead of the funky parallelogram we'd likely get otherwise. 

 

A more annoying problem comes up when we're excavating a prehistoric room and need to map it.  We measure the length of each wall in the field and take a compass reading on the direction of each wall, then attempt to transfer this to paper.  Usually the last two sides on the map will not meet, because the tape measure might sag a little and/or the magnetic properties of some of the rocks the room walls are made of throw our angle measurements off slightly.  How much do we need to adjust each angle in order to keep the walls as close to the measured angles as possible, change the measured lengths as little as possible, but get the required 360 degrees for the total of the angles inside the room and get all the walls on the map to meet?

 

You can use geometry to measure the height of a tree or building that's too tall to measure directly, or find the slope of a hill you're standing on; surveyors, geologists, etc. use these ideas.  There are also cool examples in construction you can get a glimpse of now and then on This Old House.  If you google "tricks to Gothic geometry" a pdf comes up that could easily be made into story problems if you pretend you need, say, a Gothic arch of a certain height.  The same could be applied to needing to draw a logo of a certain shape and then making it the correct size to fit on a T-shirt, etc.  I know many kids still won't find these problems enjoyable to do, but it shows that at least some people do use this stuff.

[Candid]

DS7 is very good at math, but he hates DOING it. We are currently using Singapore Math 2a (dd10 is on level 5a).

 

We also play a lot of math games, read mathy books, etc. DS7 says he wants to be an engineer when he grows up. He's a SMART kid. But he hates doing the work. DD10 is great now but we struggled with her a bit at this age also.

 

So I'm trying to find resources that would show him WHY math is important (I've tried telling him all the instances where math is important in daily life, but I think it would be better received it comes from other sources eg books, web sites, etc.)

 

Anyone have some great (and INTERESTING!) sources they can share or recommend?

 

TIA!

 

Stick with Singapore past the primary series and it will show how all upper level math can be useful. The integrated approach and the problem solving things they use are very real world. 

[Guest justinkemp]

As far as kids are concerned, showing is definitely better than telling. http://www.mathfoundation.com/ --> This website actually has great PRACTICAL exercises to help children understand why math is important. I stressed on the word practical because a lot of the online math tutorials are just the usual, straightforward math exercises, though I believe I've found the exception to the rule.