Why does the Entire State of NY make it difficult to homeschool highschool?

[TheApprentice]

I was just reading some posts from hs2college, and they were talking about in order to graduate from a college in NY you need to either: have a GED, meet some other 24 credit policy, or have the superintendent of your home district sign off stating that you accomplished 4 years worth of high school work. An no diploma's from an umbrella group unless it's accredited. I don't even know if umbrella groups are accredited?

 

This just strikes me as so many roadblocks that it really is a deterrent. Does this policy hold true for Private Colleges/Universities as well?

 

I thought Home schooling was becoming more acceptable. But the more I research colleges, the less I feel this is so. Many want homeschoolers to look like public schoolers.

 

Having another freak out moment.

[Maura in NY]

It does not hold true for private colleges/universities. Accredited diplomas (like Clonlara, or MODG), are acceptable. The 24 credit refers to a NY way to get a high school equivalency diploma without taking the GED. Basically, once you start college, you need to be sure you've taken 6 English credits, 3 credits in math, science, social sciences, and humanities, and 6 additional credits towards your degree. This isn't a requirement for admission -- it's a requirement for graduation. So, it isn't really a high hurdle.

 

The letter from the superintendent, for a NY resident, isn't a huge deal either, because we are required to file a plan for each student each year, and quarterly progress reports. (Even though this sounds burdensome, once you get rolling it really isn't much. It's only a pain for people in districts that are always trying to push past the limits of what the law requires us to provide.) Since we've done all that paperwork on our end, the least the superintendent can do is provide a letter in return! And the way the regs are written, basically all the district is attesting to is that we held up our end of the paperwork bargain.

 

The worst part about the whole process is that each SUNY school (State University of New York) interprets the regs differently, and you can get stymied by ignorant administrators.

 

My son was accepted to SUNY Geneseo, and the question was never raised. We did have the letter from the superintendent, but I think that Geneseo just figures that you will be able to meet the 24 credit requirement while you are meeting your degree requirements with them. (Since he opted for another school, we never got that far, but we do know other homeschoolers without accredited hs diplomas who have gone there).

[8filltheheart]

I know nothing about NY but is not like that everywhere. CA and GA are 2 other states that have additional hoops for homeschoolers. Sometimes private schools are far easier for homeschool admittance, but some have additional hoops.

 

The best thing to do is investigate admissions policies and make decisions based on that. There are plenty of schools that do not want ps lookalikes. You can reject applying to schools that don't match your homeschool philosophy.

[Candid]

I think I could make some comments as to "Why?" but they would of necessity be political.

 

Question for Maura or others in NY: Do they hold out of state home schoolers to this? Unlike in NY I file nothing with nobody. Never, ever do I deal with a local person, only a state level person. 

[Grantmom]

Is that only for CA and NY state schools? What if you are coming from another state?

[Ellie]

I know nothing about NY but is not like that everywhere. CA and GA are 2 other states that have additional hoops for homeschoolers. Sometimes private schools are far easier for homeschool admittance, but some have additional hoops.

 

The best thing to do is investigate admissions policies and make decisions based on that. There are plenty of schools that do not want ps lookalikes. You can reject applying to schools that don't match your homeschool philosophy.

What hoops does California have for homeschoolers??

[anne1456]

I did have one private school in New York (Nazareth College) tell me they wanted to see the Superintendent's letter.  So it is possible that some private schools will ask for it, although I don't think it is very common.

[8filltheheart]

What hoops does California have for homeschoolers??

Based on everything I have read, CA public schools are not going to simply accept my homeschool transcript with no outside classes and just an ACT or SAT score. There are many state and private schools where that is really all it takes.

 

CA's a-g requirements being met by testing criteria http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/requirements/a-g-requirements/index.html

are hoops.

 

The same email loop the OP is referring to has numerous emails about CA admissions and they are very concerned about meeting specific criteria.

[Susie in CA]

In regards to CA requirements....

 

Now that I have done some research into CA highschool graduation requirements I can understand why the UC admissions are so concerned about their a-g requirements. The CA minimum highschool graduation requirements are so low; it was shocking to me.

 

English: 3 years

Math: 2 years

Social Studies: 3 years

Science: 2 years

Foreign Language OR Art: 1 year

PE: 2 years

 

That's a total of 13 credits. That's it. 

 

 

[Crimson Wife]

Most CA homeschoolers either do CC first and then transfer to a UC/CSU or take extra standardized tests.

 

One of the less selective UC's (Riverside?) has a special admissions program for HS students. A student could go there for a year & then apply to transfer to a different UC. My mom attended PS but she did do a year at Riverside then transferred to Berkeley as back in the '70's it used to be almost impossible for out-of-state students to win admission to Berkeley. She was able to establish CA residency during her year at Riverside and get herself into the state resident transfer admission pool.

[Ellie]

Based on everything I have read, CA public schools are not going to simply accept my homeschool transcript with no outside classes and just an ACT or SAT score. There are many state and private schools where that is really all it takes.

 

CA's a-g requirements being met by testing criteria http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/requirements/a-g-requirements/index.html

are hoops.

 

The same email loop the OP is referring to has numerous emails about CA admissions and they are very concerned about meeting specific criteria.

Do you mean CA public colleges? Because those are "hoops" for all *private school* students, not just homeschooled students. There has been much discussion over the last, oh, 15 or 20 years on how U.C. (not California State, but University of California) are making it difficult for graduates of campus-based private Christian schools to be admitted because their schools used Christian textbooks. Private colleges in California are much more likely to accept parent-generated transcripts and ACT/SAT scores than U.C.

 

For us, given the relative inexpensive cost of community college, taking c.c. classes seemed like the best use of our resources, especially considering that transfer students are guaranteed to be admitted, ahead of public school graduates. One dd transferred seamlessly to CalState San Jose as a junior; the other chose not to continue, but she also could have transferred as a junior to any CalState, and only needed a couple of other classes to be able to transfer to U.C. Neither took ACT/SAT. I suppose some might consider that to be a "hoop," but it's one we thought was our best option, and it's one that many *private school* students use, as well.

[8filltheheart]

For us, given the relative inexpensive cost of community college, taking c.c. classes seemed like the best use of our resources, especially considering that transfer students are guaranteed to be admitted, ahead of public school graduates. One dd transferred seamlessly to CalState San Jose as a junior; the other chose not to continue, but she also could have transferred as a junior to any CalState, and only needed a couple of other classes to be able to transfer to U.C. Neither took ACT/SAT. I suppose some might consider that to be a "hoop," but it's one we thought was our best option, and it's one that many *private school* students use, as well.

Ummmm, having to attend a CC and then transferring to a university.......yeah, that qualifies as a hoop and definitely not one I would be willing to hop through with my kids.

[Ellie]

Ummmm, having to attend a CC and then transferring to a university.......yeah, that qualifies as a hoop and definitely not one I would be willing to hop through with my kids.

YMMV. Community college instead of high school has worked for a boatload of us. :-)

 

Nevertheless, it isn't a "hoop" that just affects homeschooled students; it affects *all* students in California. And it only has to do with the University of California schools, not the California State colleges, not private colleges.

[Lori D.]

I was just reading some posts from hs2college...

 

...I don't even know if umbrella groups are accredited? ...

 

... I thought Home schooling was becoming more acceptable. But the more I research colleges, the less I feel this is so. Many want homeschoolers to look like public schoolers...

 

Having another freak out moment.

 

 

Time to take a breath! The picture is NOT bleak for homeschoolers going to college!

 

It IS true that homeschooling is MORE acceptable to colleges these days. In fact, because it is more widely known and understood, admissions offices know how to help homeschoolers, and often are especially *welcoming* of homeschoolers!

 

Typically, the only things I'm seeing that the majority of colleges and universities want to see from homeschoolers are what they want to see from ALL incoming freshmen:

1. SAT or ACT score (to verify the high school transcript)

2. Certain number and type of credits on the transcript

 

And what credits are required is usually less burdensome than what many state educational departments require for high school graduation, and leaves plenty of room for electives and exploration. What is required does vary somewhat among universities, but on average, for the majority of schools, these credits are desired:

 

4 credits = English

3-4 credits = Math* (Alg. 1, Geom., Alg. 2)

3 credits = Science** (with labs)

2-3 credits = Social Studies (1 credit = American History)

2-3 credits = Foreign Language (credits of the same language)

1 credit = Fine Arts

TOTAL = 15-18 credits

 

* = more often 4 credits are being required, with the 4th credit a higher math with Alg. 2 as prerequisite

** = choice of which -- but if student is going into STEM field, then 4 credits, and Biology, Chemistry, and Advanced sciences are recommended

 

 

The only time I'm seeing that homeschoolers are "needing" more than those 2 things:

 

- having to meet special NCAA regulations so students are eligible to play collegiate sports

- taking AP, or CLEP, or dual enrollment credits to decrease time & money spent at the college

- taking extra credits, doing extracurriculars, and performing at high level (honors, AP) in order to compete for entrance to the small percentage of colleges that are more selective, are military academies, or are top tier / ivy league schools

- taking extra credits, doing extracurriculars and performing at high level to compete for scholarships and merit aid

 

 

To help relieve the panic raised by those posts from hs2college, I suggest you do some research: List some of the universities your student is interested in attending. Go to their websites and see for yourself what their admission requirements are for homeschoolers. If the website is confusing, call the office and speak directly to the admissions office.  :)

 

Maura and Dot gave you great BTDT encouragement for the reality of homeschooling in NY and having your student graduate and attend a NY college.

 

You mentioned worries about umbrella schools and accreditation -- do you have a specific question about that? You could post a separate thread to gather information and relieve fears if that is something you need to know about. But first, I'd find out if that will even need to be a concern (i.e., look at the college admission requirements).

 

Wherever you live, I also encourage you to find some LOCAL homeschoolers who have graduated students and who are now attending a college or university in your area. Nothing beats having someone who is living in your exact situation for getting great, specific "how to" advice for what to do and when, and how to navigate any potential "hoops"!

 

:grouphug: Hugs and encouragement! I know it's scary and overwhelming when you first start having to put on that administrator/guidance counselor hat! Here's mine ----> :hat:  It makes me giggle and helps me calm down about all the paperwork... ;) BEST of luck as you navigate this new area of homeschooling a high schooler! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Barbara H]

There are additional hoops in some states. The reality is that a lot of people writing these policies really don't understand homeschooling at all and don't understand the variability in homeschool regulations in different states. It is frustrating.

 

The often given advice on homeschooling lists is to just check all the colleges where your student will want to apply. The problem is that when you are planning for 9th and 10th grade most students really don't know where they will attend college. By senior year it can be too late to do what you need to in terms of SAT subject tests, graded papers, etc.  One little project I've been working on is putting together a collection of college admissions policies for homeschoolers.  I hope this collection will serve as a helpful place to get started with your early high school planning until your student knows where they want to apply for college. I also suggest checking with your local options early in high school as well as the majority of students will want some local options on their college list. Remember policies can change from year to year. Also, students who want to receive merit aid and want to be competitive for more selective schools, should plan to do more than the minimum required.

[Jen in NY]

ETA--he'll be going to SUNY Geneseo.  He got two merit scholarships from them which covered over half the cost. His outside merit aid covered the rest, so he's going totally free.

WooT!

[Ellie]

An no diplomas from an umbrella group unless it's accredited. I don't even know if umbrella groups are accredited?

There are a number of distance-learning schools which are accredited (in some states, they might be "umbrella groups;" in others, they are not): ABeka Academy, Seton Home Study, Lighthouse Christian Academy, Clonlara, Sycamore Tree, Oak Meadow, and more.

[anne1456]

 Walt was accepted here, too.  We weren't asked for the letter, tho.(if this is the one in or near Rochester)

 

Well it was 3 years ago, but when my daughter toured and talked to an admissions counselor they said they would need it before she matriculated.  But she didn't end up there, so who knows if they would really follow up on it or not.  I finally gave in and just got the superintendent's letter because it seemed like the path of least resistance for state schools.  My oldest is transfering to SUNY ESF this fall, and they still said they needed the letter even though she has 60+ credits that she is transferring in, way more than the 24 needed for high school equivalency.  Seems kind of silly, but at least most districts seem to be good about writing the letter.

[Candid]

One little project I've been working on is putting together a collection of college admissions policies for homeschoolers.  I hope this collection will serve as a helpful place to get started with your early high school planning until your student knows where they want to apply for college. I also suggest checking with your local options early in high school as well as the majority of students will want some local options on their college list. Remember policies can change from year to year. Also, students who want to receive merit aid and want to be competitive for more selective schools, should plan to do more than the minimum required.

 

Barbara, I think this is a good idea and you have made a good beginning, but I'd like to suggest something that could expand your project and yet not kill you at the same time. 

 

I think you need to make it a Wiki and let other home school moms create it, too. This way more detail could be added to the schools you have and many more schools could be added. 

[jhschool]

There are additional hoops in some states. The reality is that a lot of people writing these policies really don't understand homeschooling at all and don't understand the variability in homeschool regulations in different states. It is frustrating.

 

The often given advice on homeschooling lists is to just check all the colleges where your student will want to apply. The problem is that when you are planning for 9th and 10th grade most students really don't know where they will attend college. By senior year it can be too late to do what you need to in terms of SAT subject tests, graded papers, etc.  One little project I've been working on is putting together a collection of college admissions policies for homeschoolers.  I hope this collection will serve as a helpful place to get started with your early high school planning until your student knows where they want to apply for college. I also suggest checking with your local options early in high school as well as the majority of students will want some local options on their college list. Remember policies can change from year to year. Also, students who want to receive merit aid and want to be competitive for more selective schools, should plan to do more than the minimum required.

Thank you for this link!

That is a lot of work--thank you for putting it together!

[Little Women]

Most of the comments have addressed the question of "how do you deal with this?"     I'd like to address the "why do they do this?" instead.

 

Public schools typically see the "failures" of homeschooling.  There are some kids who are put into ps in high school, as part of a specific plan, but most who go to ps later on do it because hs is not working for them.    This leaves public schools feeling that the results of homeschooling, as they see them, are not good.     Kids who go straight to college from homeschool may not be easily visible to professors, so some are not even noticed.  But the ones who are noticed typically stand out for being "under" the standard or for being "different."   

 

Also, some states have always had onerous requirements, usually because they wrote these laws quite awhile ago, before there were many studies done about homeschoolers.    

 

I used to be very unhappy about these laws.   Having now met a few really poor-quality homeschoolers, I can understand them a lot better.  (I know these people well.  They have no learning disabilities, but they are not getting a decent education.)     I don't think a state having excessive regulations actually solves this problem, but I can understand why some states are concerned.