My latest beef with Singapore Math (1B)

[SKL]

Is it just my imagination, or do they suddenly jump from "32 is 3 tens and 2 ones" to "25+39" with no warning (in a single lesson)?! Way to make reluctant kids love math . . . . I need to type up a couple dozen more practice problems if this is going to sink in.

[Spy Car]

25+39.

 

 

If you add 2-Tens and 3-Tens, how many Tens have you got? 5-Tens (very good!)

 

Let's add up the Units. If you have 9-Units and 4-Units, how many Units does 9-Units need to make another Ten? 1-Unit (very good!)

 

Now how many Tens do we have? (5-Tens plus 1-Ten equals 6-Tens. 6-Tens! (you are very good at this!)

 

If the 5-Units gave up 1-Unit to the 9-Units so it could be a Ten, how many Units are left? 4-Units! (perfect!)

 

So now, altogether how many Tens do we have? 6-Tens. And how many Units? 4-Units.

 

What do we call 6-Tens 4-Units in English? Sixty-Four! (wasn't that fun!)

 

Let's do another....

 

Bill

[SKL]

25+39.

 

 

If you add 2-Tens and 3-Tens, how many Tens have you got? 5-Tens (very good!)

 

Let's add up the Units. If you have 9-Units and 4-Units, how many Units does 9-Units need to make another Ten? 1-Unit (very good!)

 

Now how many Tens do we have? (5-Tens plus 1-Ten equals 6-Tens. 6-Tens! (you are very good at this!)

 

If 5-Units have up 1-Unit to the 9-Units so it could be a Ten, how many Units are left? 4-Units! (perfect!)

 

So now, altogether how many Tens do we have? 6-Tens. And how many Units? 4-Units.

 

What do we call 6-Tens 4-Units in English? Sixty-Four! (wasn't that fun!)

 

Let's do another....

 

Bill

I'm trying to prepare my kid to go to school tomorrow and have a clue how to do the above on her own. Her teacher will not help her. There were only about 6 practice problems involving carrying. And the "completed" examples don't even talk about carrying They just say 25+39 is 5 tens and 14 ones which is 64. Another thing: this is the first time they ever showed an equation in the vertical format. My kid didn't even know how to read the problem in the first place. Thus obviously didn't know about tens and ones columns in an equation. It just seems they could have spread all of this over a couple/few days. :/ I should have clarified that the curriculum is Math in Focus, which is based on Singapore but isn't the same as Primary Math.

[Arcadia]

I should have clarified that the curriculum is Math in Focus, which is based on Singapore but isn't the same as Primary Math.

 

 

Do you get the Math in Focus school to home newsletters? If not you can see the newsletters here

https://sites.google.com/a/ans.edu.ni/1st-grade-team/weekly-plan/math-in-focus

The scope for Math in Focus would help give a big picture view

http://www.blwd.k12.pa.us/schools/es/Shared%20Documents/Math%20in%20Focus%20Scope%20and%20Sequence_K-5.pdf

 

ETA:

Math in focus 2nd grade videos if you want to prep in summer

https://www-k6.thinkcentral.com/content/hsp/math/hspmath/common/mif_pd_vid/9780547760179_te/index.html

 

Parents are supposed to have the username and password info for k6.thinkcentral for their kids school.

[kiwik]

When does your year end? You need this to be finished.

[Uff Da!]

This is a lot easier to show with c-rods, 100 flats and a 1000 cube. It's too late for today's lesson but having them for summer practice and for next year might be helpful. You can also look at educationunboxed. She has a video about regrouping using egg cartons and such. Also, see if your library has "Sir Cumference and All the Kings Tens".

[SKL]

There is no carrying. Strike that word from your vocab...there is only 'regrouping'.

 

Try doing the problems mentally, then writing the answer down after you get her mental math skills there. Start with single digit addition that has double digit answers, then move up to double digit plus double digit. This is great car work. If she gets stuck, go back to pictorial or concrete with single plus single = double digit so she can see the regrouping, then practice in the car. Over the summer, practice with money.

 

It is quite possible that the teacher has skipped essential parts of the lesson, or that they were presented so quickly that your child missed it.

 

ETA: are the majority of students in this classroom doing well with this material?

 

The teacher has been skipping around like crazy over the past month, so it's been impossible for me to get a head start on anything. But I do know that they just started chapter 13 this Monday. My kids said that when they got near the end of the practice set, the teacher told them it was 2nd grade stuff and didn't teach it. However, they were required to fill in answers, so I dunno what that means. ... I have no idea how the majority of the kids are doing with this material, since it was just introduced yesterday. My guess is that like many math concepts, some kids find it easy and others need to go over it many times in order to learn it. I'm just bugged that the program doesn't give more gradual practice in this area. Even the practice workbook I bought has hardly any practice in this area. Seems strange to me.

[SKL]

This is a lot easier to show with c-rods, 100 flats and a 1000 cube. It's too late for today's lesson but having them for summer practice and for next year might be helpful. You can also look at educationunboxed. She has a video about regrouping using egg cartons and such. Also, see if your library has "Sir Cumference and All the Kings Tens".

 

I do own a "base ten set" and c-rods as well as the entire Sir Cumference series. :) I pulled out the base ten set and used that, along with the number / column cards from our place value charts, and we worked through most of the examples using the manipulatives. It did start to click, but we were at it until 10:30pm when my dd started falling asleep in her chair. (Not ideal, I know.) As for Sir Cumference and other math storybooks, I've read them all before and will probably read them all again come summer, but right now it's hard to squeeze that in.

[Uff Da!]

Ugh... I am glad summer break is coming for you and your daughters.

[Dmmetler]

FWIW, Singapore Primary maths does a better job of building up to it than you describe, both in the textbook and even more in the HIG. If you can pick up a used copy of the SM 1B and level 2 textbooks or HIGs or both, it might be worth it to have around as a "second opinion" (or maybe Math Mammoth? I haven't used it for those grade levels, but it's supposed to also be similar, and it's cheap). My guess is that there are activities that the teacher was SUPPOSED to have done before the girls got handed that particular workbook page. This is also where SM introduces the red and yellow chips and chip trading (which is a nice intermediate step between base 10 blocks and actually doing the problem on paper without manipulatives, and transfers well over to visual)-so a package of poker chips may not be amiss for this summer, either.

[SKL]

Chip trading? We have red and yellow chips, but what is chip trading?

[Dmmetler]

Trading 10 yellow chips for one red-regrouping, with the chips placed in columns to demonstrate the place value. One thing I like about the chips is that you can add more colors to demonstrate larger values. There are multiple games you can play to practice regrouping using the chips (or base 10 blocks).

[SKL]

dmmettler, Is there an online reference for the games you mention? Or how can I find out about them? I would love to have some math games for both of my kids to play together.

[Dmmetler]

Here are the tools used in the Ed2go Singapore math teaching class I did

https://api.ed2go.com/CourseBuilder/2.0/Images/Resources/Prod/4ns-0/mat_chips_strips.pdf

 

Here's a video

 

 

Here's a game that can be played using Base 10 blocks or chips-it's nice because it's 100% chance-so it helps equalize players of different skill levels. I suggest using dice to match the chip colors at first (and two different colors of dice regardless). (You can also use different types of dice and use this for base-N math)

http://www.wilkes.k12.nc.us/currick8/second/math/Super/NumOps/1_01/RaceaFlat.pdf

 

This Pinterest site has some good ideas

http://pinterest.com/jeschcm/singapore-math/

 

 

Here's a nice site of place value games

 

http://www.teachingideas.co.uk/maths/contents_placevalue.htm

[Spy Car]

Two problems with the poker chip thing:

 

One, if the child has struggles with realitive values (say 10 vs 100) the chips do nothing to help with this because they are the same size, and just vary by color. Many kids move past this "problem," but there is a second problem.

 

Two, this chip trading (just like using base-10 Unit cubes) encourages "counting" vs "re-grouping" (which is what using C Rods helps promote).

 

If one is adding 9-Units and 5-Units and one has poker chips (or base-10 Unit pieces) a child will naturally count them up to 10 or 14, and then make the "trade." It "works" to get correct re-grouping, but uses a "blankety-blank" method that isn't much better than finger counting.

 

In contrast, if you have a 9-Unit C Rod (blue) and a 5-Unit C Rod (yellow) and lay them end to end you have the total value. To "re-group" to a Ten you lay a 1-Unit C Rod parallel to the other Rods, and see the difference is 4-Units, which can be "proved" by laying in a purple rod.

 

At some point it is best to get past any need for these manipulatives, but the prime skill to me mastered is the re-grouping to Tens (and later Hundreds, Thousands, etc).

 

To the OP, really work on adding single digits that require re-grouping to Ten. Use the C Rods (if necessary) but then try to move to the point where she can explain a problem like 8+7 as a re-grouping to Ten exercise. Do it a thousand times if that is what it takes.

 

I'm with Heigh Ho in saying "carrying" (and "borrowing") are words that need to disappear from your vocabulary. They also indicate to me that you need more teacher-education in the Singapore method than you've got (which is not intended to be harsh sounding, I needed it myself).

 

I'd concur with dmmetler that it would probably be a good idea to add your own Singapore-style program to do over the summer and to try (as bet you are able) to get ahead of the school. That does, however, require that you teach the method the right way, and not fall back on "traditional" methods and terms.

 

You should try to read the Liping Ma book.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

dmmettler, Is there an online reference for the games you mention? Or how can I find out about them? I would love to have some math games for both of my kids to play together.

 

One great game you can use from RightStart is called "Go to the Dump."

 

This game focuses on "pairs that make Ten." Having these down stone-cold is a key precursor skill to successful re-grouping.

 

The directions can be found in a YouTube video. You will need some 1-10 cards.

 

 

Bill

[SKL]

I'm with Heigh Ho in saying "carrying" (and "borrowing") are words that need to disappear from your vocabulary. They also indicate to me that you need more teacher-education in the Singapore method than you've got (which is not intended to be harsh sounding, I needed it myself).

 

I'd concur with dmmetler that it would probably be a good idea to add your own Singapore-style program to do over the summer and to try (as bet you are able) to get ahead of the school. That does, however, require that you teach the method the right way, and not fall back on "traditional" methods and terms.

 

You should try to read the Liping Ma book.

 

Bill

 

I have zero confidence that the teachers at my kids' school are actually going to give up all the traditional US methods and switch to only the way Singapore does things. Even if they do, I don't think it will hurt if my kids are familiar with the terminology most US schools use. But you are right, I don't have any teacher education in math, SM or otherwise. (I don't think their school teacher has much on me there, either.) I just have some workbooks and a brain and I do my best to figure out what they are getting at. I'm pretty good at teaching math concepts, though. My kid just needs a little time and practice. I did buy a whole pile of SM workbooks to remediate and then (hopefully) accelerate over the summer.

[Spy Car]

 

I have zero confidence that the teachers at my kids' school are actually going to give up all the traditional US methods and switch to only the way Singapore does things. Even if they do, I don't think it will hurt if my kids are familiar with the terminology most US schools use. But you are right, I don't have any teacher education in math, SM or otherwise. (I don't think their school teacher has much on me there, either.) I just have some workbooks and a brain and I do my best to figure out what they are getting at. I'm pretty good at teaching math concepts, though. My kid just needs a little time and practice. I did buy a whole pile of SM workbooks to remediate and then (hopefully) accelerate over the summer.

 

I went on a tour of an elementary school (charter) we were considering because I knew they we're using Primary Mathematics. The problem was, they were going it "wrong."

 

There are reasons to use the correct terminology and not use terms like borrowing and carrying.

 

Time and practice is the key. Just make sure you practice the right things. Basketball legend Michael Jordon once said (paraphrasing) that if you practice the wrong thing you get very good at doing things wrong.

 

Bill

[Dmmetler]

Ed2go has fairly cheap Singapore teaching classes available online. I've done two of them-the counting and number sense one, and the model drawing one, and they're a BIG help. If you go that route, check multiple colleges and universities. I found the same class offered through multiple colleges, and the university I taught at at the time was the most expensive. The same class through a local community college was much cheaper. One nice thing about such classes-they connect you to a bulletin board (while the class is going on) with the other people doing the class at the same time, which will mostly be elementary school math teachers doing continuing ed classes. It is expected that you'll share problems your student/child is having, and the teachers will work together to help you solve them. I did the teacher training for my continuing ed before my DD officially started SM, but while i was tutoring 3rd grade Saxon math-and it was EXTREMELY helpful in finding ways to reach my tutoring students, who, for the most part, had been taught "do it following this way", not what they were actually doing conceptually.

[Uff Da!]

Does the teacher have them draw the math problems? For example 5+7, she could draw five stars then seven stars. Then she would regroup by drawing a circle around ten of the stars . I am just wondering if the regrouping step was skipped over. (Obviously drawing 34 stars would be a pain)

[SKL]

I don't know what the teacher is doing, but experience tells me she's not going to get through to my kid. We work on it at night and she's slowly getting it. It's funny, because she's already coming up with smart short-cuts that avoid the actual work of doing the math. Funny how a kid can be smart about one thing and really struggle with another.

[SKL]

And I've been good - yesterday I didn't say "carry" at all. :)

[Spy Car]

I don't know what the teacher is doing, but experience tells me she's not going to get through to my kid. We work on it at night and she's slowly getting it. It's funny, because she's already coming up with smart short-cuts that avoid the actual work of doing the math. Funny how a kid can be smart about one thing and really struggle with another.

 

Practice is good. Knowing "pairs that make Ten" with automaticity is hugely helpful. Think about playing "Go to the Dump."

 

If your daughter gets good at mental math stratagies their is a suppliment, Fan Math Speed Express (or something like that title) available at the singaporemath website.

 

 

 

And I've been good - yesterday I didn't say "carry" at all. :)

 

Well done! :D

 

Bill

[Guest hough]

Thanks to all for sharing! I am just starting to learn this and hope to be more helpful to my kids.

[EKS]

I think that 1A and B are the weakest books in the program. You're not crazy. I remember there were several places where there I found a disconnect between the instruction in the book and the level of reasoning expected of the student. I think the reason is that the books were written assuming the presence of and instruction by a trained classroom teacher. You may find additional support in the HIG.

[stripe]

If you've got clay and some sort of stick, you can have your child make balls of clay and put ten on a stick.

 

I got this from Aharoni's book; he hates Cuisinare rods ;) . Anyway, it was a hit in my house when we did it. (I own c rods but never use them and don't even know where they are!) You can then physically break apart and construct a ten, is the point, more so that with a rod, although if you've got blocks, you can build/break them too.

[Spy Car]

Ahroni is wrong. Just because an Israeli math program that used them may have been a poor math program does not warrant a condemnation of the manipulative.

 

Bill

[stripe]

Ahroni is wrong. Just because an Israeli math program that used them may have been a poor math program does not warrant a condemnation of the manipulative.

 

 

I was just giving credit to Aharoni for his idea, since I got it from his book Arithmetic for Parents.

 

Whether c rods are great or not, doesn't actually have to do with the purpose of making balls of clay and putting them on skewers in groups of ten. As far as I know, c rods don't split into pieces and join to make larger numbers, nor are they an obvious choice for learning place value, which is the point. It is a cheap and tactile way to demonstrate the concept that the OP's child seemed to be struggling with. Some people don't have money to buy lots of manipulatives or access to c rods.

[NittanyJen]

Singapore Math actually sells a college textbook on teaching elementary math using their materials. It is now being used as an elementary ed text in many US universities. It's listed on the Singaporemath.com site for $29. http://www.singaporemath.com/Elementary_Mathematics_for_Teachers_p/emft.htm

 

There is a second one, for elementary geometry, same price, or a package deal that includes both books plus a sampling of the US Edition books and workbooks (I think 3A-6A with one workbook included, 5A, I believe) for around $89.

 

The textbook description says that it includes teaching activities to be used to present the ideas in a concrete fashion and explanations for how to teach each concept.

 

I have not read the book for myself to see what the quality is, but I thought I would toss it out there in case it might be helpful to anybody, since it is sold on the SIngapore site, and the price is pretty reasonable.

[EKS]

Singapore Math actually sells a college textbook on teaching elementary math using their materials. It is now being used as an elementary ed text in many US universities. It's listed on the Singaporemath.com site for $29. http://www.singapore...hers_p/emft.htm

 

There is a second one, for elementary geometry, same price, or a package deal that includes both books plus a sampling of the US Edition books and workbooks (I think 3A-6A with one workbook included, 5A, I believe) for around $89.

 

The textbook description says that it includes teaching activities to be used to present the ideas in a concrete fashion and explanations for how to teach each concept.

 

I have not read the book for myself to see what the quality is, but I thought I would toss it out there in case it might be helpful to anybody, since it is sold on the SIngapore site, and the price is pretty reasonable.

 

 

I have this book and found it extremely valuable. After reading it, I was able to teach Singapore lessons without using the HIG. Highly recommended!

[Guest ClassProf]

If you've got clay and some sort of stick, you can have your child make balls of clay and put ten on a stick.

 

I got this from Aharoni's book; he hates Cuisinare rods ;) . Anyway, it was a hit in my house when we did it. (I own c rods but never use them and don't even know where they are!) You can then physically break apart and construct a ten, is the point, more so that with a rod, although if you've got blocks, you can build/break them too.

 

I realise this a bit late to this discussion, but for what it's worth I also hate Cuisenaire rods, having been taught as a young preservice teacher in the 1970s this, then confirming in my own research in the 1990s. By including colors and multiple-size blocks, they unnecessarily add a feature to be associated with numbers that is arbitrary and unhelpful.

 

Always try to use materials that model the idea of collections of 10 - base ten blocks are very good, but cheaper "pop sticks" and rubber bands are better in many ways, since you can bundle and unbundle to show the equivalence. It is vital that the child sees that 10 ones = 1 ten, so 14 ones = 1 ten + 4 ones, etc. and have practice regrouping in both directions until it becomes second nature.

 

Once that understanding has been built, working out 25 + 39 shouldn't be too difficult. Focus on understanding what the symbols mean, what is happening, rather than the steps in the algorithm.

[NASDAQ]

I realise this a bit late to this discussion, but for what it's worth I also hate Cuisenaire rods, having been taught as a young preservice teacher in the 1970s this, then confirming in my own research in the 1990s. By including colors and multiple-size blocks, they unnecessarily add a feature to be associated with numbers that is arbitrary and unhelpful.

 

Always try to use materials that model the idea of collections of 10 - base ten blocks are very good, but cheaper "pop sticks" and rubber bands are better in many ways, since you can bundle and unbundle to show the equivalence. It is vital that the child sees that 10 ones = 1 ten, so 14 ones = 1 ten + 4 ones, etc. and have practice regrouping in both directions until it becomes second nature.

 

Once that understanding has been built, working out 25 + 39 shouldn't be too difficult. Focus on understanding what the symbols mean, what is happening, rather than the steps in the algorithm.

 

Once you get much past ten with Cuisenaire rods, the colours cease to be that important. You use the tens and hundreds flats.

 

The colours make it easier to do work between zero and twenty.