Skipping Math Grades... advantages/disadvantages

[umsami]

DD1 is going to be homeschooled next year for 1st grade. She's been at a charter school that uses Saxon for math. I was looking with her at the math book I was thinking of for next year--Math in Focus (Saxon's Singapore). Well, she was able to do all of the problems...even at the very end of the book. (Saxon has a preview where for 120 days, you can see the entire book/workbook online.)

 

My thought is just to start her with 2nd grade, but I'm wondering if there are any disadvantages?

 

Her eldest brother seems to get math quite easily...and to be honest, I was the same way. The negative was that I never really "knew" it. I could plug and chug...all the way through Calculus with ease... but as for understanding math, I'm just starting to now after having taught DS1.

[Lara in Colo]

I have learned through trial and error (lots of error) to not skip a grade (with math). I would order both years and do the first on double time and work through the summer.

[Farrar]

On the one hand, you want to make sure she really got the concepts. On the other hand, you don't want to kill her desire to learn by boring her to death with it.

 

I'd personally skip her ahead. There's a lot of learning in first grade math, but it's pretty straightforward. There aren't many side topics you could miss. And if she didn't get it, then she wouldn't be able to move on and do the next level of basic operations in second grade math. So I would say if she really could do everything in the first grade book, then go ahead and skip.

[dbmamaz]

dont all the curriculums have pretests for placements? If the pretest says shes' ready for the next level, she probably is. My youngest is extremely in to math. he went to public K and when we started homeschooling, i started with singapore 2A, which was fine for him. but we were doing simple arithmetic verbally with him already at his request. some kids can understand the simple stuff without the step-by-step instruction, but some kids really need the slower approach. but i find its pretty easy to figure out anything thats been missed and cover it quickly and move on

[Ellie]

dont all the curriculums have pretests for placements?

 

No, they don't. :-)

[mathmarm]

I haven't taught K-2 math for a long time. But I am the default math tutor for most of my family and friends. There is typically so much overlap between the basic arithmetic in a K-2 sequence that if your daughter can do the stuff at the end, I would get her the next book in the series. If you have doubts, I would ask her questions from the end of each section of the book you can preview. I might go a little bit slower in the next book up just to see if we get any hiccups, but I would infact go through the book. In general, unless you are going to refuse to slow down when she needs to slow down and revisit a concept, there are no disadvantages.

 

As for the person who plugged and chugged all through Calculus, in a sense that isn't the biggest problem. Infact, sometime mastering the plug and chug part is what helps students to understand the math. I wouldn't advise waiting until you get through all of Calculus to go back and do that thinking and have those 'aha' moments, but I wouldn't discourage allowing your child to know all of arithmetic either.

 

For arithemetic kids mostly need to develop Number sense and spatical reasoning and logic and that is a highly personal thing. Some kids don't get it until ~10yo. If mastering the execution of algorithms strengthens their confidence, enthusiasm and interest in mathematics why wait?

 

You can't rush development, but don't stunt exposure to a subject while you wait on development.

 

Thats like refusing to use words longer than 6 letters until your child understands basic grammar. Many parents use big words and encourage the use of big words in their kids, long before they introduce the idea of formal grammar. Many kids will have excellent spoken Englsih skills and large vocabularies long before they can identify a dependent clause, diagram a sentence or understand iambic pentameter.

[mom2bee]

What did she use in Kindergarten for math? Is the 2nd grade book next in the sequence? (Meaning did her class use the Grade 1 book already?) If the Grade2 book is next in the sequence, then I would go for that. If she would be skipping 1st grade math all together, then I might say get the 1st and 2nd grade book, align the topics and work through each topic all the way, going really fast through the 1st grade portion and going as fast as you can with the 2nd grade portion.

 

Meaning I would do the 1st grade section on adding, then the 2nd grade section. The 1st grade section on subtraction, then the 2nd grade section on subtraction and finish both books in one year while working through the summer if need be.

[boscopup]

The only issue you might run into with jumping grades between Saxon and MIF would be the mental math techniques used in MIF. I'd go over to Education Unboxed and go through the mental math videos there, then go on to 2A.

 

If she did Saxon 1 already, she would have her addition and subtraction facts memorized. So if she sees 8+7, she'll automatically know it's 15. But what MIF (and Singapore) would expect a child to be able to do would be to say that 8 needs 2 from the 7 to make a 10, so 8 + 7 = 10 + 5 = 15. Yes, she has that fact memorized, but if she can learn to do that mental math technique, it scales up to higher numbers. This technique is used a LOT in the Singapore programs, so I would not skip it if you want to use such a program long term.

 

I have skipped early math chapters/books with my oldest at times. If they know it, they know it. When we were doing Math Mammoth, we got to 2B, and I realized that it was mostly addition/subtraction with 3-digit numbers. Well, when he learned to do that with 2-digit numbers, he automatically scaled that to any number of digits. You could give him a set of 10-digit numbers, and he'd have no problem adding or subtracting them. So we didn't need to spend a semester's worth of work time on that concept. I gave him the end of book test, he aced it, and we moved on to 3A. K-2 math is VERY simple, so it's not uncommon for the mathy kids to figure out a lot of it on their own. We didn't skip nearly as much in the grade 3 books, and we skipped nothing in grades 4 and 5. We only had to skip things to get to where he really was. And even then, he still learns a lot of topics earlier than they're introduced in the math program. He automatically reduced fractions a year before he was formally taught to do so. I just encouraged it, and when we got to reducing fractions, we were able to skim through that section. ;)

 

So far, I've had no disadvantages to skipping things he already knows very well. He has not forgotten those things that we skipped. He has a solid arithmetic foundation. Facts are memorized, concepts are understood, all that jazz. The advantages have been that my kid still loves math and enjoys playing with numbers. That was happening less when he was in school, forced to use Saxon at grade level. Prior to and after being in school, he really enjoyed playing with numbers.

[fairfarmhand]

GO ahead and place her at the level which she can perform. However, be willing to slow down or even stop to regroup if/when she hits a snag. Also, keep in mind that she could be chugging through math like nobody's business and then hit a book which is designed for 5th graders, that are developmentally ready to work on math for 45 minutes to an hour each day. However, if the maturity is not there it's not there and she may need to do 1 day's work in 2 days so that she's not frustrated.

 

Above all, use her frustration and abilities as a guideline and follow her lead.

[duckens]

We are in a similar boat.

 

This is what we are doing (so far). I hope that I am not screwing my child up too much.

 

Context: Dd is 6. She has a December birthday. Age-wise, she is finishing her Kindergarten year.

 

What we are doing may or may not work for you, but it will give you an extra option to consider.

 

In December, dd finished Saxon Math 1.

 

We started Saxon 2. In Saxon, every 5th lesson is a review lesson. I started to give dd6 the review lessons as pretests. She did very well on them all until she hit Lesson 90 (out of 132). Then she missed more than 10% of the problems. I backtracked to ~Lesson 62 (where I knew there was new material we had not discussed, skipped the lessons in the 60s that she did know, and started continuous lessons at Lesson 70.

 

Every day that we do math, dd does the next lesson in the book. I also have her do pages from the first half of the book. She is reviewing old, easy concepts while learning new ones.

 

In this way:

 

1) dd gets extra practice at the simpler concepts. This is sooooooooo important at the early ages.

2) dd gets confidence in math; at least some math she experiences is super easy

3) this slows us down a bit so in the future we don't hit a point where she is stuck on a math concept because she is developmentally not ready for it (I hope!)

 

Is that a lot of math on a daily basis?

 

Yes! But we are a science family, and math is the language of science. I have assisted homeschooling other kids as a nanny. I have tutored college Algebra students who do not yet know all of their math facts. If we do this part well, it pays off big time in ALL of the years that follow. I have seen it happen when it is done well, and I have seen the results when it is not done well.

 

One other concern:

 

We are near the end of Saxon Math 2. I have no reason to believe that dd6 will not test out of at least the first half of Saxon Math 3. If that is the case, we will have a 7yo that will be starting Saxon Math 5/4 by the end of first grade. Saxon Math 5/4 does not have workbooks. It is a standard textbook in which the problem (as well as a longer solution for more complicated problems) are written by the child. I worry that the amount of writing required for my 1st grader with a Saxon Math 5/4 textbook would be harmful to her. Most likely, I would copy the problems and she would write the solutions, but the amount of writing required for a young child is something to keep in mind.

 

If Math in Focus does not have a placement test or review tests, would it work to give her every tenth assignment as a "test" to gauge where she is?

[umsami]

The idea of giving her pretests is a good one. I think the assessments are a separate purchase, but I could do that.

 

 

As an FYI, there are two versions of Saxon's 3. The "regular" one and a different one called Saxon 3 Intermediate. You might want to investigate that for your DD.

[Dmmetler]

If there's not a placement test for MIF, you might want to check the SM placement tests on singaporemath.com. The Primary maths series DOES have placement tests, and I imagine that if she can place into 2A for SM primary maths, she'd be ready for MIF as well.

 

I will say that SM starts out what seems to be quite slow-because they really, really want those number bonds and mental math solid. Later on, the wisdom of that approach becomes apparent, but the 1st grade books do seem quite light compared to many US math series.

[umsami]

They do have placement tests at http://saxonhomeschool.hmhco.com/en/resources/result.htm?title=Placement

 

I'll give it to DD and see what happens. :)

[fairfarmhand]

We are in a similar boat.

 

This is what we are doing (so far). I hope that I am not screwing my child up too much.

 

Context: Dd is 6. She has a December birthday. Age-wise, she is finishing her Kindergarten year.

 

What we are doing may or may not work for you, but it will give you an extra option to consider.

 

In December, dd finished Saxon Math 1.

 

We started Saxon 2. In Saxon, every 5th lesson is a review lesson. I started to give dd6 the review lessons as pretests. She did very well on them all until she hit Lesson 90 (out of 132). Then she missed more than 10% of the problems. I backtracked to ~Lesson 62 (where I knew there was new material we had not discussed, skipped the lessons in the 60s that she did know, and started continuous lessons at Lesson 70.

 

Every day that we do math, dd does the next lesson in the book. I also have her do pages from the first half of the book. She is reviewing old, easy concepts while learning new ones.

 

In this way:

 

1) dd gets extra practice at the simpler concepts. This is sooooooooo important at the early ages.

2) dd gets confidence in math; at least some math she experiences is super easy

3) this slows us down a bit so in the future we don't hit a point where she is stuck on a math concept because she is developmentally not ready for it (I hope!)

 

Is that a lot of math on a daily basis?

 

Yes! But we are a science family, and math is the language of science. I have assisted homeschooling other kids as a nanny. I have tutored college Algebra students who do not yet know all of their math facts. If we do this part well, it pays off big time in ALL of the years that follow. I have seen it happen when it is done well, and I have seen the results when it is not done well.

 

One other concern:

 

We are near the end of Saxon Math 2. I have no reason to believe that dd6 will not test out of at least the first half of Saxon Math 3. If that is the case, we will have a 7yo that will be starting Saxon Math 5/4 by the end of first grade. Saxon Math 5/4 does not have workbooks. It is a standard textbook in which the problem (as well as a longer solution for more complicated problems) are written by the child. I worry that the amount of writing required for my 1st grader with a Saxon Math 5/4 textbook would be harmful to her. Most likely, I would copy the problems and she would write the solutions, but the amount of writing required for a young child is something to keep in mind.

 

If Math in Focus does not have a placement test or review tests, would it work to give her every tenth assignment as a "test" to gauge where she is?

 

 

this is a good approach for a young math-minded child in Saxon. Key is to remember that those early math concepts build upon one another and to ensure that the child FULLY understands the concepts. If there are any shaky spots, they will be revealed when Saxon gets more complicated.

 

I did a similar approach with my dd. We hit huge snags in fifth grade because she didn't have the in depth mathematical comprehension that was needed for more complex topics, and because rather than slow down, I continued barrelling through hoping that she would magically "get it" Additionally, the amount of writing was not appropriate for a young child, and neat writing was important when figuring out complex, multi-step math problems. I wish I had given my young child maybe half or 1/4 of a math lesson at that point. She wouldn't have hated math and developed a mental block because math took so long and was so tedious.

 

Like I said before, key to advanced learning in early elementary is following the student's cues. They will tell you when you are pushing too hard.

 

By the way, some people buy used Saxon math texts and allow their children to write in them so as to help with the writing issue that young math-savy kids experience.

[Hunter]

I haven't taught K-2 math for a long time. But I am the default math tutor for most of my family and friends. There is typically so much overlap between the basic arithmetic in a K-2 sequence that if your daughter can do the stuff at the end, I would get her the next book in the series. If you have doubts, I would ask her questions from the end of each section of the book you can preview. I might go a little bit slower in the next book up just to see if we get any hiccups, but I would infact go through the book. In general, unless you are going to refuse to slow down when she needs to slow down and revisit a concept, there are no disadvantages.

 

As for the person who plugged and chugged all through Calculus, in a sense that isn't the biggest problem. Infact, sometime mastering the plug and chug part is what helps students to understand the math. I wouldn't advise waiting until you get through all of Calculus to go back and do that thinking and have those 'aha' moments, but I wouldn't discourage allowing your child to know all of arithmetic either.

 

For arithemetic kids mostly need to develop Number sense and spatical reasoning and logic and that is a highly personal thing. Some kids don't get it until ~10yo. If mastering the execution of algorithms strengthens their confidence, enthusiasm and interest in mathematics why wait?

 

You can't rush development, but don't stunt exposure to a subject while you wait on development.

 

Thats like refusing to use words longer than 6 letters until your child understands basic grammar. Many parents use big words and encourage the use of big words in their kids, long before they introduce the idea of formal grammar. Many kids will have excellent spoken Englsih skills and large vocabularies long before they can identify a dependent clause, diagram a sentence or understand iambic pentameter.

 

 

I :001_tt1: this post!

 

OP, I radically accelerated my youngest. There were pros and cons to doing that. I don't think there was a "right" answer to what I should have done. Don't drive yourself crazy over guessing. Just do what you do for the "right" REASONS and be flexible if necessary, and it will all work out well enough.

[nmoira]

Can she mentally perform 2-digit addition and subtraction across tens in a systematic manner? If so, you're not missing anything. If not, you can do some concentrated work on those single skill and still move on.