How is Classical Conversations impacting your local hs community?

[Farrar]

As I said, I get that there are lots of groups that don't love CC for all kinds of reasons. I only mentioned one for the simple reason that I consider myself a part of that group, so I'm not sure why you're re-addressing that point?

 

You're right, I misused "rights" when I meant "legalities." Sorry. That was just a misuse of the word on my part. I meant the same thing as you. But it amounts to the same thing. I think we disagree about that. But in practical terms, I don't think that has a central bearing to the conversation. That's a whole other can of worms.

 

My basic point is that I do think having a community is important to many homeschoolers and it bothers me when people downplay the importance of community.

 

Honestly, I have not encountered this lack of confidence or belief that others should teach one's kids when you're a new homeschool parent. I would agree that if a parent new to homeschooling thinks they literally can't teach their kids without a co-op, that's a problem - or, at least, that's a parent who perhaps shouldn't homeschool. But everyone I know either sees co-ops and other classes primarily as social opportunities or they see homeschooling as primarily about taking advantage of a diversity of resources that includes outside classes and learning. It's an integral part of their philosophy that they want to find ways to utilize and seize whatever opportunities come their way.

 

You say you don't want to pit the two groups against each other, but I wonder if you're misinterpreting a desire to engage with the world and to have that sense of community with a lack of confidence and a belief that others should teach for the homeschool parent. It's true that there's a generation gap in homeschooling right now and I think newer homeschoolers do believe they should be able to "have it all" - in that they expect to be able to both teach their children in a manner of their choosing and find a community context in which to do so. People who were homeschooling twenty years ago really couldn't realistically expect the latter in most places. But it's become so pervasive in many areas now - with so many options - that people do demand it. I know for myself that I absolutely would homeschool without a community if we had to - but as long as I can create one around me, I am going to do so and do it with gusto.

 

But is that bad? I can see that something is lost when you're not forging your own path. But surely something is gained as well?

 

I think I should clarify a few pts. First, I do not believe that co-ops/CC type programs undermine homeschooling "rights." Homeschooling is not a "right." I stated that they pushed into a gray area of law. The 2 are not interchangeable. Some states state explicitly that the education is being provided by the parent or guardian. I am concerned about homeschooling legalities specifically b/c with the exception of OK (I believe it is the only state, though I might be wrong about that) homeschooling is not a right but legal as defined by the law.

 

And, again, secular homeschoolers are not the only ones to fall into the category of "not being included" (and I think stating it as marginalized is over-stating.) Goodness, try being a Catholic in the middle of the the bible belt in a community full of 7th Day Adventists with a war between all of them and the secularists. ;)

 

FWIW, my post was not meant to pit on group against the other. However, 99% of new homeschoolers that I meet do NOT believe that they are capable of teaching their own children. They believe they need a co-op, even for primary and elementary subjects. That is concerning to me. When homeschoolers in general accept the arguments as "the norm" that are used to want to limit homeschooling freedoms, yep, that does marginalize the truth that parents do not need to be experts in order to successfully educate their children. FWIW, I am in no way, shape, or form suggesting that outsourcing is wrong. Seeking professional help is good parenting and good teaching.

 

[stm4him]

I just want to say that for me, CC is about community in the sense of meeting regularly with like-minded educators and having my kids see other kids strive for the same goals (as in I'm not the only mother that makes their kids learn Latin). But also, and probably more importantly for us, is that we (and myself especially) do better under pressure. I can clean my house by myself. I am motivated to clean my house even when no one is coming over, but I clean it on a whole other level when someone is coming over and I notice more dirt when they come over and I see I've missed a spot. I'm a lot more disappointed in myself if there are unclean rooms in my house when someone comes over than I am otherwise. The same principle works with CC. I can do the memory work at home by myself and I believe it is important. I don't need a tutor to show me how to do it and I am not unsure about what to do. Much of the time I think I could do it better myself at home. But the problem is that for years I said I was going to do it at home and never did. When I go to CC with my kids I am motivated on a different level to be consistent in our schooling and to expect more from my kids. They expect more from themselves and are less frustrated with their workload when they know their class is also working hard too and their tutor is like-minded with their mother. So the motivation and accountability it provides for us (a form of positive peer pressure) is good for us.

 

Our way of thinking as a Christian is narrow, by definition. It is biblical....narrow is the way.....

 

If someone wants to find a community where God is not honored as Creator and all subjects are not infused with Him then there are plenty of places to go.......Our "religious" groups are the only corner of the world we have left at this point.

[Mommyof4ks]

I think a lot of things affect a support group. We have been part of a CC group for 3 yrs, and we have plans to try something different this coming year, because Challenge was very stressful for my once school loving dd. We are going to try another option that has opened up recently in our community that has also rattled the core homeschool group and thinned out some numbers. Bottom line is that I think the more homeschoolers we have, the more options we have, and the more community mentalities we get will lead to people plugging in to a smaller group and forming friendships rather than large acquaintance bases that tend to exist in large support groups.

 

ETA: We still have book sales that are well attended, but CC has a different set of books than other homeschoolers use, so it has not been an issue. Of course our CC group does not do book sales, so maybe I am missing something there.

[LucyStoner]

I don't think there are very many here. It never comes up on the local homeschooling FB page. I only know of one somewhat nearby and I am not sure they are still going. I'd be interested in a secular classical group, so CC is not for us.

[LucyStoner]

 

If someone wants to find a community where God is not honored as Creator and all subjects are not infused with Him then there are plenty of places to go.......Our "religious" groups are the only corner of the world we have left at this point.

 

 

Even where I live, which is known to be one of the least churched cities in the US, most homeschooling groups seem to be religious in nature and have statements of faith as conditions of membership. I know that in many areas, non-religious hs groups are next to non-existent. I think that any hs group that serves a purpose and helps people, religious or not, is great and have no issue with the wide array of religious offerings but I don't see how religious homeschoolers are stuck into an even sort of small corner.

[G5052]

CC is very widespread here. I've lost count, but there are probably at least six groups within 45 minutes, about half of those with a Challenge program.

 

Sadly, it has decimated the K-6th offerings and some of the support groups locally. I can understand though because we shifted our cards onto the CC pile during that period for the same reason that so many others do -- consistent fellowship, a productive mix of content, and accountability.

 

For Challenge-age though, the other groups are still holding their own. The campus we were involved in for Challenge is struggling because a local group is really taking off with paid academic classes. Most are around $250/year for a weekly hour-long class, which is very reasonable for mix-and-match. I always thought we'd stay with Challenge to the end, but my teens will be involved in a handful of local and online classes next year and do the rest with me. It just didn't fit as well as I'd like, and we decided that prefer subject matter experts for certain subjects like Latin. And I know of a number of families like us that have ended up with more of a custom mix for high school after years of CC.

[Another Lynn]

<snip>..... but I wonder if you're misinterpreting a desire to engage with the world and to have that sense of community with a lack of confidence and a belief that others should teach for the homeschool parent. It's true that there's a generation gap in homeschooling right now and I think newer homeschoolers do believe they should be able to "have it all" - in that they expect to be able to both teach their children in a manner of their choosing and find a community context in which to do so. People who were homeschooling twenty years ago really couldn't realistically expect the latter in most places. But it's become so pervasive in many areas now - with so many options - that people do demand it. I know for myself that I absolutely would homeschool without a community if we had to - but as long as I can create one around me, I am going to do so and do it with gusto. But is that bad? I can see that something is lost when you're not forging your own path. But surely something is gained as well?

 

:iagree:

 

I just want to say that for me, CC is about community in the sense of meeting regularly with like-minded educators and having my kids see other kids strive for the same goals (as in I'm not the only mother that makes their kids learn Latin). But also, and probably more importantly for us, is that we (and myself especially) do better under pressure. I can clean my house by myself. I am motivated to clean my house even when no one is coming over, but I clean it on a whole other level when someone is coming over and I notice more dirt when they come over and I see I've missed a spot. I'm a lot more disappointed in myself if there are unclean rooms in my house when someone comes over than I am otherwise. The same principle works with CC. I can do the memory work at home by myself and I believe it is important. I don't need a tutor to show me how to do it and I am not unsure about what to do. Much of the time I think I could do it better myself at home. But the problem is that for years I said I was going to do it at home and never did. When I go to CC with my kids I am motivated on a different level to be consistent in our schooling and to expect more from my kids. They expect more from themselves and are less frustrated with their workload when they know their class is also working hard too and their tutor is like-minded with their mother. So the motivation and accountability it provides for us (a form of positive peer pressure) is good for us. <snip>

 

This. exactly.

 

And as for the OP's question, in our area I don't think CC is effecting other support groups. We tried a more "traditional" co-op and I would agree with pp who said those who left it did so because of problems already existing within that co-op. A few went to CC programs, but even more broke off to start their own, new "traditional" styled co-op and it's increasing in size and offerings for next year.

[8filltheheart]

As I said, I get that there are lots of groups that don't love CC for all kinds of reasons. I only mentioned one for the simple reason that I consider myself a part of that group, so I'm not sure why you're re-addressing that point?

It wasn't really re-addressing. It was simply meant that the exclusiveness of groups is multi-directional. It isn't unique to CC. It isn't unique to Christian groups, either. We weren't welcome in the secular group, either, b/c they were extremely bitter toward Christians having their own groups----which while the Protestant groups didn't consider us Christian, we most certainly do. Not being included by those groups, however, really didn't marginalize our homeschooling. It meant searching for other opportunities within the community (not as in "homeschooling community") at large. If the community at large is excluding homeschoolers, that is a much bigger concern and would be "marginalizing," b/c homeschooling is a legal option discrimination should not exist based on that educational choice.

Honestly, I have not encountered this lack of confidence or belief that others should teach one's kids when you're a new homeschool parent. I would agree that if a parent new to homeschooling thinks they literally can't teach their kids without a co-op, that's a problem - or, at least, that's a parent who perhaps shouldn't homeschool. But everyone I know either sees co-ops and other classes primarily as social opportunities or they see homeschooling as primarily about taking advantage of a diversity of resources that includes outside classes and learning. It's an integral part of their philosophy that they want to find ways to utilize and seize whatever opportunities come their way.

 

You say you don't want to pit the two groups against each other, but I wonder if you're misinterpreting a desire to engage with the world and to have that sense of community with a lack of confidence and a belief that others should teach for the homeschool parent. It's true that there's a generation gap in homeschooling right now and I think newer homeschoolers do believe they should be able to "have it all" - in that they expect to be able to both teach their children in a manner of their choosing and find a community context in which to do so. People who were homeschooling twenty years ago really couldn't realistically expect the latter in most places. But it's become so pervasive in many areas now - with so many options - that people do demand it. I know for myself that I absolutely would homeschool without a community if we had to - but as long as I can create one around me, I am going to do so and do it with gusto.

 

But is that bad? I can see that something is lost when you're not forging your own path. But surely something is gained as well?

 

This last part is actually the only reason I am responding. I think that having opportunities to socialize and have support meetings to discuss educational materials, etc is what homeschool groups used to offer and why they existed. That sense of community was a real blessing. However, that is also a rarity these days. Educational co-ops, not social opportunities or support for mom to teach her children independently, dominate the landscape. That is a loss.

 

FWIW, I am not sure why you stated "but I wonder if you're misinterpreting a desire to engage with the world and to have that sense of community with a lack of confidence and a belief that others should teach for the homeschool parent." B/c we most definitely "engage with the world" and "desire a sense of community." My kids have enjoyed being part of homeschool groups that were for social, sports, teen-type activities. It is simply that they are very difficult to find now w/o being tied to an academic core.

 

We lived in our area 5 years ago, moved away, came back. Many groups and low key enrichment groups are gone now, and replaced by cc and expensive co ops with academic offerings. Rare is the home schooler (except unschoolers, which we aren't) who is not a part of one or more of these groups.

 

.........

 

I am looking for a group that is a support group, not a co op offering academics, and it seems unless you unschool, they no longer exist. It's very disheartening. We outsource- Ds takes classes at the high school, online courses, has a foreign language tutor. I'm not against that. But I am annoyed that home school groups- without classes, methods and curricula- seem to be a thing of the past around here. I know, things change, market forces, yada yada, but this how I feel.

 

This. Exactly.

[Murphy101]

I'm not a fan of CC for many reasons, but it is certainly popular here. And expensive IMO.

 

I'm more bothered by the general growing attitude among homeschoolers to outsource everything or nearly everything and or to replicate school in their homeschools. Many don't join just for academic reasons, but to get the "school experience", which I admit I don't understand. I don't want my kid's to have the school experience. That's part of why I homeschool.

 

As far as the impact on the community..

 

Idk...

 

It's dang hard to find someone to talk about homeschooling high school with or just about any grade. If you have questions, the majority of the time they just say, "oh im in CC or some other coop and it uses blank materials and my kid is having fun with it and you should join!" It's hard enough to find people who actually dont do that, that even though I'm not advertising or in any support groups, somehow people are getting my name and number and calling a total stranger to ask questions. Which I guess is okay, but I feel bad informing them that none of us are experts, including the CC folks and that parenting and educating is not formulaic. I can tell them what I have done or wish I had done and answer some basic facts to get them started, but otherwise home schooling somewhat requires being willing to step off the cliff and just pray you don't go splat. LOL

[musicianmom]

While CC is expanding rapidly in my area, I don't see a negative impact. Of course, I also live in a place where you can choose from at least 6 different drop-off tutorials (1 or 2 days a week) where kids take classes. Given the high cost of CC, many people (including me) prefer to pay a little more and get the babysitting thrown in.

 

Homeschooling is so rampant here that there are enough homeschoolers to fill whatever program anyone wants to dream up, while leaving plenty of families who still homeschool without any outside groups.

[kirstenhill]

Interesting discussion. I don't think CC has any more or less impact on the homeschooling community here than any other group. I see their informational meetings advertised on metro-wide homeschooling email groups, but no more so than any other co-ops who advertise for new members (and maybe they are advertising less than some other groups, in fact). I don't know anyone locally who participates currently (I know one new-to-hs-family who is joining next year), and I know many, many homeschoolers who are in lots of other co-ops.

 

I guess like the pp, I am lucky to live in a decent sized metro area where homeschooling seems to be pretty popular, and there are lots of co-ops of all flavors both religious/secular and academic/non-academic and at various price points.

 

I would agree though that support groups don't seem to be very popular. I am a member of a co-op and a totally separate support group, but other than the members of the support group I attend, I don't know anyone else who is in a support group per se that isn't also a co-op.

 

The support group I attend a few times a year is a bit unique in that it isn't really a publicly advertised group, but rather a "ministry group" of the somewhat large multi-site church that I attend. I think if it weren't for the already-established relational connections that keep me coming back to that group, I would feel adequately supported by the relationships I have at our co-op (which is semi-academic in that classes are offered, but the classes offered are more enrichment in nature and not meant to replace standard learning at home). I wonder if because homeschooling is becoming more common (and it is super easy to stay in touch electronically with social media, etc), many homeschoolers have an easier time finding support and friendships in other ways, and don't need to put a "support group meeting" on their calendar to achieve that goal.