Apologia and High School Science?

[Michelle O. in MO]

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm new to the High School board with an up and coming Freshman this next year. I'm having minor heart attacks over this transition into high school, but am finding solace reading the many threads on this board with other families in a similar boat!

 

My 14yo daughter has decided she wants to persue an undergraduate degree in Biology. She eventually wants to go into the medical field, but isn't quite sure yet where she wants to ultimately land.

 

We have a local co-op in the area that offers high school level sciences/labs using Apologia. For some reason, and honestly I can't even tell you why, I've got it in my head that Apologia isn't the best curriculum for preparing her as a Biology major.

 

I'd like to hear your opinions. I'm currently looking at the possibility of enrolling her in an online Chemistry class through Landry Academy, but have no experience with them so don't know if that's the best option. I'm looking for rigor. She's finishing Algebra I this year so she has the needed pre-req.

 

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated online or otherwise. I do not want to teach this myself. I know absolutely nothing about high school science. :)

 

Thank you!!

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

What's your worldview? Apologia may not be a good fit just because of your worldview. It's Christian, Young Earth and anti-Catholic. If either one of those rubs you the wrong way, look elsewhere . On the other hand, if they fit your worldview, then stick to Apologia. It's the best out there for this worldview.

[1Togo]

Adding this. We know many students who used Apologia for high school, and they have gone on to college and careers in the medical profession; i.e. nursing and med school, and in other science-related fields.

[Michelle O. in MO]

World view is not an issue. I guess my question is one of rigor. :)

[MamaT]

We have only (so far) used Apologia in high school. My oldest three sons that have taken college science classes have felt very prepared, even the one with a Biochemistry major.

[kerenlynne]

I feel like the curriculum has been in line with the other resources I look at. I would definitely place it as a general 1st year HS biology. All of the concepts in the book seem to match up with what I see on Khan or some of the other websites we use. We are creationists but I had my son watch several videos about evolution so he could see both sides of the story since Apologia is definitely a Christian, Creationistic Curriculum. Since Biology seems to be the future course of study, I would assume she would take an AP or Honors Biology class later in HS. Will the co-op be teaching or just a place to do the labs etc.? It might be good to talk to the instructor there to get a feel for how much they will be beefing up the curriculum. The teacher has a lot to do with making what I consider a pretty good book into a great class.

[Michelle O. in MO]

Ok. Thank you! My current science plan for her through high school is 9th - Chemistry, 10th - Biology, 11th - Physics, 12th - AP Biology/AP Chem

 

Of course, if there is anyone here on the board that feels this sequence is lacking or has suggestions, please - I'm all ears and flexible too!

 

Michelle

[Mom22ns]

Ok. Thank you! My current science plan for her through high school is 9th - Chemistry, 10th - Biology, 11th - Physics, 12th - AP Biology/AP Chem

 

Of course, if there is anyone here on the board that feels this sequence is lacking or has suggestions, please - I'm all ears and flexible too!

 

Michelle

 

You don't need Chem first for Apologia Biology. Their sequence starts with Bio. You only need the Chem before AP bio. Chem is more math intensive and would probably to better while she is doing Algebra 2, although I know she has had a good solid Algebra this year.

 

I don't know what your plan is for the APs, but you might consider moving AP Biology to 11th and pairing it up with Physics, instead of trying to do 2 APs in the same year. The only Apologia I have used was Chemistry, but having done that, I would be shocked if Apologia Physics isn't a far lighter load than any AP Bio or Chem. Unless you meant you were doing AP Bio OR Chem senior year... in which case you can ignore this paragraph :).

 

I have a science degree. I wouldn't use Apologia Bio for someone who is going into science, there is just too much left out that they need to know (evolution, classification, they don't have to believe it, but they do have to know it). However, doing an AP level will get her all of that. The Chemistry seemed very light to me. Ds did it in a semester adding in Illustrated Guide for labs. However again, done as an intro with another year of AP, I don't think it is a problem.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Musicmom]

Ok. Thank you! My current science plan for her through high school is 9th - Chemistry, 10th - Biology, 11th - Physics, 12th - AP Biology/AP Chem

 

Of course, if there is anyone here on the board that feels this sequence is lacking or has suggestions, please - I'm all ears and flexible too!

 

Michelle

 

I'd suggest doing biology first, just because I think it will help to have had Algebra II for chemistry. Both my kids had done Algebra II before chemistry, and the math was no problem at all for them.

 

My dd (also very interested in biology but headed for nursing in college) did the following sequence and it worked well:

 

Apologia Biology (with a little supplementation on evolution)

Apologia Chemistry

Apologia Physics & Thinkwell's AP Biology

AP Chemistry (online course)

 

She actually started with Biology in 8th grade, so she did the AP Chem in 11th (she's now doing Apologia Adv Bio--anatomy--this year), but the above sequence could work starting with 9th grade. Anyway, the reason I mention this is doubling up on the Physics and Thinkwell course turned out to be quite doable, and the Thinkwell course was really good--it's quite comprehensive and the instructor is so enthusiastic he just makes the subject really exciting. Dd really enjoyed it. We did not do any labs with it--having already done plenty, including dissections, with Apologia--and we did not do the AP test. We were just after the more in-depth knowledge of an AP bio course in preparation for college.

 

FWIW, we thought the Apologia courses were very solid/rigorous for introductory (i.e. high school) level courses--they aren't meant to be AP. If you go on and do their advanced courses, that is closer to AP level (with the exception of their Biology--the Adv Bio is purely in-depth human anatomy & physiology, not "AP" Bio) Also, another big plus of Apologia is that it is written to the student, and is designed to be done independently, so it is easy for a non-science parent to implement successfully.

[Storm Bay]

We did Chemistry first, before Algebra 2, but we did it with Conceptual Chemistry, so didn't need as much math. I strongly recommend having at least some Chemistry even if it's not a full high school course before Biology as there is a lot more of it in that subject than there was 30 years ago.

 

My daughter was doing Apologia biology at home before I expelled her into public school (long, old story). It's okay, but I didn't love it the way some people did, and if I were to do it again, I'd do harder labs than they have. It's not AP, of course, so would have to be used for a course before AP as you've listed. I thought many of the labs were too easy for a high school course. If you're looking for a Christian curricula, BU is harder, but we found the book we had rather offensive as not only did it criticize something our church at that time taught (NOT Catholic, but nondenominational) it did so poorly with a summary that didn't line up with how we taught it and we found it somewhat offensive in tone, so you may want to take a look at it first. That was with earth & space science.

 

If I were to do it again, I might use both a secular and a Christian text and choose Campbell's as one of them. We get tired of texts that explain everything with macro-evolution as if it's already been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, so a mix might do well for us.

[kerenlynne]

if I were to do it again, I'd do harder labs than they have. It's not AP, of course, so would have to be used for a course before AP as you've listed. I thought many of the labs were too easy for a high school course.

 

This! I really don't like the labs. We have supplemented where possible, but I have to say I had no idea where to start with science and the whole out of the box approach of Apologia was a bit of a relief for a homeschool newby.

[bethben]

I am following this because I want to like Apologia, but the labs in general science right now and Physical science next year are BAD! I've looked through some of them and more than a few my 2nd grader has done with ease and skill understanding why it works. And I'm supposed to give this to my 7th grader and consider it science with a lab component? I'm saddened that it doesn't get better. My husband wants to jump ship on Apologia simply because of the labs.

Beth

[chirowife]

Apologia totally leaves out human anatomy in biology (they have a separate course) so imo if you choose to use it then you should supplement it with something like Miller Levine or BJU...at least for the human anatomy part...

Our co-op used apologia biology this year. My daughter did only the lab with them and used a different text. Our co-op is looking for a different science curriculum for Chem...

[funathome]

I'd suggest doing biology first, just because I think it will help to have had Algebra II for chemistry. Both my kids had done Algebra II before chemistry, and the math was no problem at all for them.

 

 

Apologia Biology (with a little supplementation on evolution)

Apologia Chemistry

Apologia Physics & Thinkwell's AP Biology

AP Chemistry (online course)

 

 

 

My oldest DD did Apologia Biology 9th grade, Apologia chemistry in 10th grade, went on to do Community college sciences (which she accredits Apologia for getting her there at 16 yr old) and is now at a large university studying Chemical Engineering.

My next child is doing the same except for next yr 11th grade the Apologia Advanced Biology. (Physical Therapy interests him)

 

We have done the General and Physical Apologia's as well. I love the way they are laid out, challenging, thought provoking and end up way beyond anything their friends are doing. I feel like Apologia gets the kids the knowledge they need in college if they are to do any type of science field. My DD said most of what she did in college science she new from using Apologia! :coolgleamA:

 

YMMV as with what your child wants to study.

[mschickie]

Well my nephew used Apologia all the way through high school and is now working on his phd in Chemistry. He even got a scholarship to the local community college.

[Alice]

Do you know the people at the co-op or the instructors? I’ve taught the Apologia Anatomy class at our co-op the past two years. (I didn’t choose the curriculum but stepped into a class that had already been planned.) I think it is quite good as an Anatomy/Physiology class. I don’t love the author’s writing style but the material is quite solid and thorough. It’s a challenging class. I don’t know enough about AP classes to know how it compares, or how the other Apologia Bio class compares. The Anatomy class doesn’t bring up evolution or creation much (he likes to say things like “isn’t it amazing how we are created†but there isn’t really more of a discussion. The labs are just ok but for anatomy it’s hard to get fantastic labs at the high school level.

 

I also am assisting with the Apologia Advanced Chemistry class at our co-op. I think it’s also very solid, although his writing style is a bit wordy for chemistry in my opinion. We are blessed with a fantastic chemistry teacher at our co-op and I think it works so well for us because of her primarily. Most of the kids in our class are going on to take the AP exam but she is making sure to cover and review certain topics that might come up on the exam that aren’t covered as well in the text.

 

Maybe talk to some of the other people who have taken the classes and see what their experience has been with the particular teachers and classes at your co-op.

[Storm Bay]

I am following this because I want to like Apologia, but the labs in general science right now and Physical science next year are BAD! I've looked through some of them and more than a few my 2nd grader has done with ease and skill understanding why it works. And I'm supposed to give this to my 7th grader and consider it science with a lab component? I'm saddened that it doesn't get better. My husband wants to jump ship on Apologia simply because of the labs.

Beth

 

 

Some people use the DIVE labs with Apologia, so if you really like it, that's an option.

[AuntPol]

It's not my world view (I'm Christian but not Young Earth nor Anti-Catholic). However, there is not a single other option for us. I need to outsource to get the labs done and DS really needs someone who understands science. EVERY SINGLE CO-OP and places that offers classes here uses Apologia. I found one place that does something else but it's an hour drive each way and they are not doing biology this year and they are much more expensive.

[msjones]

I just started looking into Apologia, so I really appreciate this thread!

 

I don't want to hijack this thread, but wonder how much the text's young earth perspective can be avoided. Does it permeate the lessons? Or does it just come up when discussing certain topics?

[kerenlynne]

We are currently using the curriculum. You will see comments about God as our Creator throughout the book but so far there is only one Chapter on Evolution that strongly presents the Creationist viewpoint. I am might be wrong since I pretty much have just turned the material over to my son-but I have tried to follow the outline and match up the material with videos from Khan Academy and Crash Course Biology. You could easily skip that chapter and use another source for that unit. The material also is in the no global warming camp which came up in the ecology unit so that could be bothersome to someone who is very concerned about the environment.

[Kendall]

You could look at Science Shepherd Biology. I used Apologia Bio with my first two. This year we are using SS. It is stronger than Apologia and includes human anatomy. I heard this weekend from a vendor that Apologia Biology is strong in the first half and much easier in the second half. I thought my son just got smarter as the year went on:).