DS with ODD & ADHD refusing to do schoolwork

[Loowit]

I need some suggestions on how to handle this situation. My 7 year old has ODD and ADHD. It has always been a challenge to get him to do his work. Typically if I spend one-on-one time with him I can get him to complete his work He has had days when he has refused to do anything at all. The consequences for not completing schoolwork is no screen time which is his favorite thing do spend time on.

 

For the last few weeks he has refused to do anything. I have taken away all screen time. He sits at the table and does nothing. He is not allowed toys, games, etc. He just sits there. He will argue with me if I tell him to do his work, so the last few days I will sit there helping my other DS with his stuff or reading a book. I have tried breaking the work down so it isn't so overwhelming. I have tried schedules, I have tried everything I can think of. I refuse to bribe him for this. I think that would be a step backward as far as what he needs for discipline. I help him with his work if he has any questions, he is the type that needs someone right there with him all the time. He will sit and listen to history and science readings, although yesterday he ended up in time out for making loud noises so no one could hear the lesson. I am just not sure what to do. I know that we are homeschooling and we can continue into the summer if needed, but I need my summer break for down time as I have one other special needs child at home also. I am also a day camp director and I need that time to do my prep work and be ready for that.

 

He is in therapy and sees a counselor twice a month and a psychiatrist every few months. He is making progress in therapy. He is now showing remorse for this tantrums, especially when others get hurt. This is a huge improvement over where he was at a year ago. He is learning coping techniques to deal with his anger. I am also learning how to help him not get to the point he is out of control, but that I am still holding him accountable to behave.

 

I am burnt out. I have dreams of just sending him off to the nearest public school and calling it good. This is not, however, an option for multiple reasons. What I need is advice on how to motivate him to get his schoolwork done.

[DyslexicParent]

Dr. Russell Barkley describes ADHD as Motivation Deficit Disorder - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3VuV5Jvazs

DD's school uses a token reward system, where she earns points for three target behaviours; she gets a prize when she accumulates enough points. It's worth a try to see if your son's motivation deficit will improve with a reward system.

I have tried everything I can think of. I refuse to bribe him for this. I think that would be a step backward as far as what he needs for discipline.

 

[Loowit]

Thanks. We have a tried a behavior chart with rewards. Small rewards for 5 stickers and a larger one at the end of the chart. The problem became that he would then expect any thing he did to get him a reward. His first question when I would ask him to do something became "What do I get?" or "Why should I?". I am not against reward systems at all, I think they can be a wonderful tool for many children, but for my child it became a nightmare.

 

 

 

It was an interesting development after I posted this today. I sat down to do schoolwork with the kids and handed him his worksheet to compete. He just started working on it. It was strange. He got caught up on all of his past work this afternoon/evening. It just has to be his idea to do it. If I try to push him at all he pushes back. My concern is that I don't think it is good for him to only do school when he is in the mood. I just don't know what the answer is.

[brownie]

I feel your pain. We don't have refusal to do schoolwork, but rewards and punishments don't work here either for one of our kids who has mild special needs. I think you are doing the right thing though and are amazing if you can keep your cool while doing it. If he is just sitting quietly at the table doing nothing then I would just keep that up. You need to "win" the standoff without getting upset or agitated. He's only 7...you have plenty of time to get school work caught up but now is the time to set the standard of behavior. Be calm but don't ever give in. I would just calmly keep repeating, "we do our work 1st and play later." Let the other kids go off to play when they are done or watch tv but don't let him get that screen time.

[dbmamaz]

with ODD i think you have to be consistent with your rules but not expect him to change his behavior because of your rules and punishments and rewards. Be consistent because its good to have a consistent home, but dont expect him to be consistent.

 

personally, i think that when it gets to the point where a child has no toys to play with . . thats unreasonable punishment. You are making him angry without actually motivating him because nothing will motivate him.

 

actually, my most oppositional child, what works best is giving him a checklist. at first I said 'you can choose which 4 of the 6 things on this checklist you will do, and what order to do them in" and that was really good for him. He felt in control. He knew when he finished the checklist, he could have his video game time. its now to the point where he has to do everything on his checklist. By his choice, sometimes he puts off work until 4 in the afternoon, with the understanding that he wont be back on electronics until after dinner, but he's fine with that - he is getting the work done but still in charge of his own time. having autonomy and saving face are huge for him . . .he's kinda a lot like his father that way.

[Loowit]

I think the checklist idea sounds like a good thing to try. I am trying very hard to be consistent with things, but I am not always the best at it. He is very schedule driven, as in needing things to be consistent so he knows that at a certain time is bedtime, at a certain time is lunch, etc. This is not by any means my strong suit. I have tried making up schedules and I hate it, but I am trying for him. One of my biggest problems is that I can't let him be in control of his schedule because I have other children that need to be places at certain times. I could tell him school time is from here to here on the clock and after that we have to leave, but I can't let him just play all day and then do his work in the afternoon. We have activities every afternoon/evening 4 nights a week. Also, when I have tried that he would tell me that he would do his work at x time but then wouldn't when the time came. I am left with what do I do now. He got to play all day, and then not have to do schoolwork. Sure he didn't get screen time since it is a rule no screen time until schoolwork is done, but he still got out of doing schoolwork. It just feels like a never ending cycle.

 

I guess I am still trying to figure our how to deal with ODD. How do I hold the line on things without angering him and making it a power struggle? Is that even possible? I want him to know that he has control over certain things. I talk to him a lot about him having control over whether or not he gets screen time or whatever else he wants to do. I am not sure that he really is making the connection though between his behavior and the consequences. For instance, I will sit him down and talk about how he needs to complete his school work for the day and then he can have screen time. I will tell him that it is his choice to do his schoolwork, that I can't make him, but if he chooses not to do it then he will have decided that he doesn't want screen time that day. Maybe this is where the checklist will help. Maybe having something concrete to look at would help him to better grasp that he is getting stuff done. Right now I lay out all his work for the day so he can see how many worksheets, book to read, etc. he has, but maybe a chart would help make it feel more manageable.

 

Thanks for the suggestions and support everyone. It is helping me to think though some new ideas.

[dbmamaz]

yeah, it was hard to accept that enforcing rules will make him mad, but . . its like a hard balance to find . . . is this a rule i have to enforce despite him being mad, or is this an ok place to bend?

 

another idea is to allow a certain amount of free time after each item done . . . time4learning has it set up that way, work for 20 minutes and get 10 minutes of games - but my son discovered he could sit and stare at the screen for 20 minutes and 'earn' game time. I also have a hard time micromanaging like that, but sometimes timers work - like, finish one item and set the timer for 20 minutes of screen time, and then do another (or even 20 minutes of play time). idk. its not easy . . .

[LaughingCat]

at first I said 'you can choose which 4 of the 6 things on this checklist you will do, and what order to do them in" and that was really good for him. He felt in control. He knew when he finished the checklist, he could have his video game time.

I would start with simple choices like this to start with. Being able to choose when to play and when to work is a much bigger choice that needs to be worked up to. Another similar idea would be to offer a choice between two similar things - "Today for math, you can do this math worksheet or this one, which do you want to do?"

[brownie]

Just a question...does data actually support going to great lengths not to anger an ODD kid? I know that probably makes life more pleasant for the family. I am not disputing that. I'm just wondering if there is data on the long term effects of limiting punishment to what seems reasonable for typical kids.

 

I'm just curious. It seems to counter traditional parenting advice that you need to teach them who is in charge, and this is much more easily accomplished with a 7 year old. Or are they really so stubborn that you can never succeed at this game? I'm asking this from a place of "no experience" to be difficult. My oldest is exceedingly difficult and quite likely ODD.

 

Whoops! I SO meant that I am NOT asking this from a place of no experience. This SO changed the meaning of my post! So sorry!

Edited March 23, 2013 by brownie

[dbmamaz]

i guess i havent researched it . . .my youngest is the most 'odd'-ish and he was much calmer after removing various foods. my approach is a combination of enforcing rules when i feel its really important so that he KNOWS there are limits, but trying to pick my battles very carefully so we dont spend too much time fighting, and trusting him to slowly gain the ability to control himself.

[Mukmuk]

:grouphug:

 

So eerily similar. OP, # 1 rule- be easy on yourself! Make sure you have some time for yourself *every* week. I'm sure you've run ragged, like I was. Every now and then, explain (ad nauseum!) to your child why you need him to buckle down and assure him that you love him no matter what. I give my son consequences but afterwards, when all is calm, I explain why with lots of hugs. It took me a few years to work that out!

 

How about outsourcing some lessons if its possible, like music, sports or scouts? It gives you a break and lets him have a different authority figure. Can your dh take over for some lessons? I found outside teachers to be the most effective however. He might need more of these to get used to the idea of taking instruction. Be prepared that it won't always work out, but keep looking as some might. Look for gentle teachers that he can relate to. Ds was booted out of an exercise class just a few months ago for being so super mouthy :o (he's a gentle kid except when he starts his never ending back talk!), but the teacher was too rigid- she works well for some kids but not for those who need a bit more understanding (I was going to pull him out but they acted faster!).

[Targhee]

I like the video clip above, kind of. I think it is out of full context. Dr Barkley is right on the money with his approach to ADHD and ODD, but this clip didn't begin to do justice to his approach. At the recommendation of our psychologist (whom we see, as a family, for DS's ADHD/ODD) I have begun reading Barkley's book The Explosive Child. I highly recommend you looking into it, and his website livesinthebalance.org, at his Collaborative Problem Solving approach. It isn't easy. It has a high front-end demand on parents. But it's a plan, and a good solid one, for helping kids develop the skills they are lacking (or are underdeveloped) and which they need in order to function successfully. I am only beginning this process with DS. But this approach gives me hope and direction. Perhaps it will help you and your DS too.

[Loowit]

Just a question...does data actually support going to great lengths not to anger an ODD kid? I know that probably makes life more pleasant for the family. I am not disputing that. I'm just wondering if there is data on the long term effects of limiting punishment to what seems reasonable for typical kids.

 

I'm just curious. It seems to counter traditional parenting advice that you need to teach them who is in charge, and this is much more easily accomplished with a 7 year old. Or are they really so stubborn that you can never succeed at this game? I'm asking this from a place of "no experience" to be difficult. My oldest is exceedingly difficult and quite likely ODD.

 

Whoops! I SO meant that I am NOT asking this from a place of no experience. This SO changed the meaning of my post! So sorry!

 

 

With DS it isn't so much that we go to extraordinary lengths to not upset him, it is we are trying to help him succeed. For our older children if we have a rule, they may test it, but they don't rage at us like our youngest does. It isn't just being stubborn. My DH is very good at the stubborn game. He can outlast DS pretty much every time, however, it also ends in rages from DS to the extent that it is scary. If DS feels like he has no control then he will push and push until he is so upset that he is completely out of control. His rages are one of the hardest and most disheartening things I have dealt with as a mom. Sometimes they last for hours. He will kick, scream, bite, threaten to kill us and/or himself. I have scars all over my arms from him scratching me. He is completely and utterly out of control when he has these tantrums.

 

So while I hold the line with rules, I am careful to pick my battles and when it isn't a battle I am choosing I will relate in in such a way that he knows that I would be sad for him to make that choice but that it is his decision. He knows that his dad and I are in charge and he knows what rules we don't budge on but we have to be creative on getting him to comply more so than with a tradition parenting situation. School time is one of those things that I am trying to figure out still. It was a battle in the past, but not one he cared about too much. This year it has become and increasing issue.

 

In the end of it all, I want to raise him to be a responsible adult that can control his temper and not always fighting authority on every little thing. He is a very sweet, funny, adorable little boy, who has a problem that I am trying to help him with. There are days I despair ever seeing him get better, and days that I have hope. Yesterday was a bad day after a good day. Today has been good so far.

[Loowit]

To answer some other suggestions (sorry don't know how to quote multiple posts).

 

We do outsource a few things. He goes to his grandma's (MIL) every Friday morning for art class. She says he does great there, but I strongly suspect it is because she gives him pretty much anything he wants. I would love to DH to be more involved in schoolwork but right now he is out of town all week and work and we only see him on the weekend. Hopefully after we are able to move it will change. For scouts DH is his den leader. I wish we could find another person to lead his den but not many parents are stepping forward. He will have a coach for soccer, someone we haven't met yet. Last spring his soccer coach was great, and I wish he could have him again this spring. DS loves soccer and I think it is great he has a coach who isn't related to him.

 

I have read part of the Explosive Child, but it was year ago when DS was only about 3 and just starting to show some signs of problems. I really should look into reading it. I will have to see if our library has it. The website looks interesting.

 

I have done food elimination. He has allergies to food dyes (hives) so he already has those eliminated. He was off dairy, soy, peanuts, tree nuts, and eggs for years due to allergies. Now he is only allergic to peanuts and treenuts. But eliminating dairy, soy, etc.didn't seem to have any effect on his behavior. I have considered eliminating gluten, but I haven't yet. It just seems so daunting. I know that sounds awful as a mom. I did have a strep test done to rule that out.

 

I have started to work on a checklist of things to do for next week. Hopefully that will help.

[brownie]

It's not awful. It is daunting! Especially when you are already dealing with other food restrictions! I haven't tried it yet either and we've had a diagnosis for 6 years. I have taken myself primarily off of wheat so that's a start...at least I know it can be done now. I plan to try harder this summer..when I have more time to cook and there are more fresh fruits and vegetables available, but boy are they going to put up a stink!

 

DS also downs about 1/2 gallon of milk a day and is growing so quickly. He shouldn't be overdoing the milk either but I have no idea how I'll get enough calories in him.

 

[Mukmuk]

Lending support to the food issue. Yup. Ds is gluten free, milk free and egg free. Low in vit d too. He went gf with inconsistent improvement 2 years ago. Last year, he tested for leaky gut and very high levels of yeast, so we eliminated milk and started an enzyme program. That was tough to do but very significant in terms of improvement. He also has mineral shortages and abnormally low cholesterol, which we continue to monitor and address.

[Tokyomarie]

I like the video clip above, kind of. I think it is out of full context. Dr Barkley is right on the money with his approach to ADHD and ODD, but this clip didn't begin to do justice to his approach. At the recommendation of our psychologist (whom we see, as a family, for DS's ADHD/ODD) I have begun reading Barkley's book The Explosive Child. I highly recommend you looking into it, and his website livesinthebalance.org, at his Collaborative Problem Solving approach. It isn't easy. It has a high front-end demand on parents. But it's a plan, and a good solid one, for helping kids develop the skills they are lacking (or are underdeveloped) and which they need in order to function successfully. I am only beginning this process with DS. But this approach gives me hope and direction. Perhaps it will help you and your DS too.

I like the Collaborative Problem Solving approach. Just want to make a quick correction: Dr. Ross Greene is the originator of this approach and the author of The Explosive Child and Lost at School. Another resource I found very helpful is Transforming the Difficult Child: The Nurtured Heart Approach by Howard Glasser. I learned how to change the dynamic between my "difficult child" and myself. He was a teenager by the time I found this book but our relationship is so different now, in large part because of what I learned in this book. He is still very much his own person but we no longer deal with the constant negativity

[Laura's Haven]

I thought maybe I would share a little background about our experience...Reading your post has brought back so many memories for me with my youngest son. This is the shortened version for sure! He is 12yo now, but he was 2yo when I suspected ADHD. He wouldn't go down for a nap, and slept only a few hours each night. He would run himself into the ground, and still would not tire. By his third grade year, he began having behavioral/academic problems in public school. His grades plummeted, and he was on the verge of failing. For the years that followed there was no improvement, and the teachers only cared to know if he was on ADHD medicine to control his symptoms in class. I was in an unfamiliar territory for sure, and I tried him on a gammot of medications. When he turned 10yo, I visited the pediatrician twice because my son lost twenty pounds, and looked completely emaciated. I couldn't stand it anymore, and seeing my son that way broke my heart. The medication took his spirit, and he behaved like a zombie. It was then that I realized the error of my ways. I wanted my son back. I wanted my spirited, very normal, happy boy back. I took him off of the medications, and I decided that the health of my son was far more important than "control" in the classroom. Every child is different, and they can't all be lumped into the same category where learning is concerned. At the same time, his pyschiatrist tried coping, therapy, and none worked for him. We tried all the same things you described. We tried charts, rewards, you name it. What he needed most from me was my time, and my undevoted attention while he completes school work. He has grown out of some of the ADHD, but there are moments when it is certain that it is present, and/or his is testing me. The only thing I know is the while he has ADHD, it doesn't mean that I accept his negative behavior. It certainly changes the approach to parenting...In the early days I believed that he one hundred percent could not control his behavior because of the ADHD, but he began that to use those negative behaviors as an end all to get what he wanted at that moment. I guess the best thing I did was to "stick to my guns" no matter how hard it was. There is nothing wrong with being loving/kind, but he needs to know first that I was serious; I meant buisness. He can have the extra things, but ONLY if he does his work. If I allow it other way, and he get over on me. I don't know if any of this helps, but I thought I would give it a shot.

[dsmith]

We've been having a heck of a time with ds refusing to do school and other things. What has finally been working is a combination of not giving in to his demands at all ever, his tech goes to work with dad if school is not done, and he gets paid for school and other target behaviors. He also gets lots of quiet praise for good work and attitudes, not dramatic overdone praise like when a kid uses the potty. :001_smile: He at first had the attitude that he should be paid for everything, but he stopped asking for money for every little thing after a week. We have a list of items that were being fought over the most that he makes a small amount for doing, but if he is consistent in doing will earn him a pretty good amount. He also gets paid daily, not weekly. He can't handle the weekly thing - it means absolutely nothing to him- but eventually we will go every other day and then to weekly. This past week was amazing! His work was done well, he is feeling GOOD about himself and earning some money, helping around the house, etc. We throw in little bonuses (not necessarily money) here and there to keep him motivated and feeling good. It took me a while to get on board with paying him, but the way he was going he would never have been able to hold a job, but now I can see that he really could if he is motivated to. ETA - He was very involved with coming up with a plan to handle the problems we were having, and came up with many of the ideas himself. I think that it is important to make them a part of whatever plan is being formulated. This even meant giving in to him on certain things I was pretty adamant about, but I see now that it was for the better.

[Targhee]

 

I like the Collaborative Problem Solving approach. Just want to make a quick correction: Dr. Ross Greene is the originator of this approach and the author of The Explosive Child and Lost at School. Another resource I found very helpful is Transforming the Difficult Child: The Nurtured Heart Approach by Howard Glasser. I learned how to change the dynamic between my "difficult child" and myself. He was a teenager by the time I found this book but our relationship is so different now, in large part because of what I learned in this book. He is still very much his own person but we no longer deal with the constant negativity

Thank you for catching my mistake!! Barkley was the one who wrote Taking Charge of ADHD, another good book. I am going to look for the Glasser book myself, thank you.

[TravelingChris]

Is he on adhd medication? I found that the right adhd medication helped alleviate much of the problems of ODD. Not completely, but to a large extent.

[KBunn]

I know this may be an unpopular idea, but have you looked into medication? We tried all natural routes before finally giving in to trying medication and it was the best thing that could have ever happened for us or him. My oldest is 12 and has ODD and ADHD our days were just as you were describing before trying medication, only he went to public school. He was constantly sent up on suspensions, refused to do work, was failing and the straw that broke the camels back is we didn't give him his way one morning and he went to school and told them that his dad punched him, which definitely did not happen. He later admitted he had lied, but the damage had been done and we had to go through the whole ordeal of DCF.

 

After that we started medication and he is now a student who has honor roll in public school all year, rarely has behavior issues at school and only normal pre-teen level outbursts at home. The best part has been that we are able to grow close and improve our relationship again over the last few years and we have been able to teach him various life and coping skills that he was not able to learn without the help of the medication. For instance, the fact that he can make his own choices and taking responsibility for his actions. I know medication is not right for everyone, but it was a saving grace in our case.

[Loowit]

I am not against the idea of medication, but i have strong reservations. My son is already on about 5 medications to control his asthma and allergies. We had discussed this with several doctors and none can say whether or not the medications contribute to his emotional issues, but the general consensus is probably not. I just hate to put him on more medications. I will do it if it will help, but I get the feeling that the psychiatrist is wanting to wait to see how therapy is working.

 

I get so many mixed opinions on medications, and I will admit it makes me nervous. But I am beginning to think it may be what we need to try next.

[EKS]

I think you need to readjust your expectations. Your son is 7yo. It is not reasonable to expect him to work on his own.

 

I have one son with dyslexia and ADHD. I worked with him at his side until he was 11 or 12. My other son does not have LDs or ADHD. I worked at his side until he was *at least * 8 and then I only gave him small amounts of independent work to do.

[Loowit]

I don't expect him to work on his own. I am sitting next to him almost the whole time. My other son who is 10 is also sitting at the table with us because he also needs me to be right there.

[EKS]

I don't expect him to work on his own. I am sitting next to him almost the whole time. My other son who is 10 is also sitting at the table with us because he also needs me to be right there.

 

 

Sitting with him is not the same as directing the work and being part of it. My kids needed me there saying, "And now we'll do this problem." And then I'd talk them through it if necessary. And write for them. And whatever else. It was a conversation and a joint effort.

[Loowit]

I do direct. I do teach. I am not just sitting at the table watching him, I am very involved in what he is doing and doing pretty much everything one-on-one with him. I also get yelled at, hit, kicked, bitten, ... I am not going to do the work for him, but I am doing my best to help him to do the work, giving whatever help he requires. His struggle is that he just doesn't want to do it. He refuses to do it. I can sit there offering and cajoling all day and if he doesn't want to do it, he just isn't going to do it.