When do you expect a kid to...

[Mommy22alyns]

be able to properly narrate from a passage that's ... boring?

 

I know that all subjects are not endlessly fascinating and we use plenty of "get 'er done" things.

 

However.

 

We're running into more WWE 4 problems with just the narrations. Now, Rebecca can tell me TONS of detail from The Phantom Tollbooth, which she just read after being intrigued by the excerpt in WWE 4. But this Child's History of England stuff? Nope. It's worse than pulling teeth (and she HATES pulling teeth!). I had DH do writing today and he had her read it out loud. She just doesn't get what she's reading because it doesn't engage her.

 

Am I expecting too much of an almost 10 yo fourth grader, or is it time to suck it up and deal?

 

Again, we use plenty of things that aren't entertaining, so I get that not everything has to be.

[Mom2TheTeam]

I'd like to hear the answer to this. My son is only in 1st still. But, personally, I really struggle to retain anything from a text that isn't engaging to me. Somehow, I can read it and my mind will wander or completely blank. Before I know it, I've read several paragraphs or even pages and have no clue what I read. It's frustrating as an adult because I know not everything is fun to read.

[NancyNellen]

Well, I do think it is a skill which should be acquired and strengthened. My 9 year old, 4th grader has gotten better this year. Sometimes we had to shorten the excerpt and do shorter narration of smaller chunks, but with practice he is able to do longer bits now. When I think back to my high school and college career, I can think of many required classes or portions of classes that I had little interest in (upper level music theory comes to mind:-) I would not have been well-served by a brain that checked out, although it certainly happened occasionally. I would probably read in small chunks and take shorter narrations as she builds that muscle.

[Mommy22alyns]

Anyone else? We're having a lot of trouble.

[Kalmia]

The non-fiction selections are more difficult, but also more reflective of the work the child will be doing in later grades. This is actually a gentle introduction considering that often middle school children are expected to write papers from multiple non-fiction sources, some of which they will find "boring." That being said, I do think WWE leans toward having selections that would be welcomed by boys (which is good, as my boy as well as many others I have heard of may struggle with writing more than girls). So, if the passage is just torturous for her, find an equivalent non-fiction passage from another source that is interesting and have her do a narration from that.

[Walking-Iris]

I've encountered that in WWE3. Honestly I don't think SWB ever meant for kids to narrate on the point of being bored to death. Those are her selections. But if you were to just use the WWE text alone you would be choosing your own passages. If my ds just really doesn't like the passage we're reading I allow him to answer the questions while looking through the passage to find the answer. And then i allow him to tell me what he likes about the passage. If he hates it, i ask him why. Narrations don't have to be a perfect retelling in so many sentences. You could just have a conversation about the passage. I wouldn't force a kid to give a narration that looks exactly like the examples in the WWE book. Just talk about it. And move on.

 

You may find that in telling you why he dislikes it, he summarizes it. There's value in giving someone very concise and clear examples of why something is disliked or not what you prefer etc. I don't even try to pretend that the selections in WWE are the end all be all of what we ought to read or narrate.

 

You can also narrate a documentary, an experiment, a painting, and so on.

[Alice]

We’re skipping more passages this year from WWE. My son actually likes most of them (maybe the just the facts kind of passages are more boy-friendly) but I’ve been adding in other literature and writing assigments. Some made up by me and some from MCT. Writing is really not his strong suit or his favorite thing so I alternate between different things rather than pile it all on.

 

All that to say, you could still use WWE but maybe skip some of the ones that are boring to your daughter.

 

I do think there is some value in being able to summarize something you don’t find interesting but maybe if she knew she didn’t have to do them all she’d be more ok with doing some. You could substitute narrations from other books that she is reading or that you have assigned. We’ve also gone that route with dictation. It used to be pulling teeth and the most miserable part of our day. I thought the WWE passages were a little ridiculously hard so we backed off on doing the dictation. I’m now adding it in a little as a skill but not doing it as regularly. He’s more ok with doing it since he knows he doesn’t have to do them all.

[Alte Veste Academy]

When do I think a child should be able to narrate something boring? Whenever they begin preparations to enter public school? That's when it would be most useful anyway. :tongue_smilie:

 

Seriously though, if my kids were just flat out bored by something like the WWE passages, which are generally completely out of context to what we are studying anyway, we would use other passages. It's part of the reason I pick WWE passages myself, using the 1-4 guide. Sometime in late logic stage is when I will work hard to get good narrations from dry, less inherently interesting text. I will be using CPO as a spine for science with DS10 for the next few years. I am currently writing out plans. I like the books, but reading through them, I am definitely struck by the fact that the writing is very cut-and-dry compared to all the living science books we have read through the years. But kids do need to develop the skill of picking up the useful info from dry text as well as from thrilling text. So, I will use parts of the CPO texts for narration, but I will initially reduce the length of the passage. So, it will be more advanced material, more technical writing, but a shorter passage. I believe in baby steps.

[KathyBC]

If my ds just really doesn't like the passage we're reading I allow him to answer the questions while looking through the passage to find the answer. And then i allow him to tell me what he likes about the passage. If he hates it, i ask him why. Narrations don't have to be a perfect retelling in so many sentences. You could just have a conversation about the passage. I wouldn't force a kid to give a narration that looks exactly like the examples in the WWE book. Just talk about it. And move on.

 

You may find that in telling you why he dislikes it, he summarizes it. There's value in giving someone very concise and clear examples of why something is disliked or not what you prefer etc. I don't even try to pretend that the selections in WWE are the end all be all of what we ought to read or narrate.

 

:iagree: Don't forget that being able to go back and find the information you need is an essential skill, too.

[Mommy22alyns]

:iagree: Don't forget that being able to go back and find the information you need is an essential skill, too.

 

 

So might it be okay if she glanced back a couple of times? When DH was helping her, I was thinking that if she'd been able to take notes, it would have been easier. Maybe we need to go on to WWS.

[happypamama]

Yeah, we've had that happen with WWE a few times too. I usually prompt her a bit with questions, but I love the idea of having her take notes too. I've just started having DD do that with other things; I had her read a book for history that wasn't terribly lengthy, and I asked her to take notes on it, in the form of "please write down X number of facts that you learned from the book." So while I'm sure she doesn't remember the whole book, a few facts that she learned did give her some hooks upon which to start her narration. I could see that working with some of the WWE passages too.

[regentrude]

be able to properly narrate from a passage that's ... boring?

 

 

Never?

 

Honestly, *I* could not narrate you a boring passage.

 

I would expect a middle school student to be able to extract information from a boring text and give a summary, but I would let him take notes while reading to help process and retain the basic content and not expect a narration after sole reading.