The Headline Read: 80% Recent NYC HS Grads Cannot Read

[merry gardens]

What does the headline mean by "cannot read"? It says they need remedial classes before entering community college, but what qualifies as "reading" and "writing"? Here's the news story from CBS New York: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/03/07/officials-80-percent-of-recent-nyc-high-school-graduates-cannot-read/

 

As many of you know, one of mine struggled greatly in learning to read. His difficulties far exceeded those of my other children, and it became clear that something wasn't right. So when I read stories like the one above, I think about dyslexia, and the extraordinary struggles some people have with reading, writing and spelling. I wonder--do some places have a larger than average percentage of the population prone to dyslexia? I'm not going to jump all over the public school system for "failing" but it seems apparent that something is not working right.

 

I feel sorry for everyone involved--the students, the teachers, the parents, the taxpayers--everyone! And I wonder just how bad it really is? The 80% figure seems to come from those who go onto community college--so where did the others go? And can the others read and write?

[VinNY]

No I don't think there is a larger population of LD's and dyslexia in NYC. There is a history of poor management and in some schools it isn't a "safe" place to grow and learn. NYC is a melting pot so a lot of children are coming from homes where English is a second language. (But after reading Outliers, I don't go for this excuse. NYC schools in the 1920-1930's churned out highly educated kids who were primarily from homes where the parents couldn't speak English:) My father and his 6 siblings had excellent educations. )

Generally, I think it means they can not read critically nor comprehend high school level material. Their writing skills are sub par because their critical thinking skills were not properly developed at the grammar/high school level. There may have been overcrowding in their classrooms, interruptions due to poor behavior etc. 

[EKS]

It means that they're not passing the placement exam.

 

At my son's CC, students need to score at the 56th percentile in reading and the 60th percentile on a multiple choice writing test to be placed into a college level English class. They need to score at the 90th percentile on the math test to place into the first quarter of precalculus (considered college level math) and at the 99th percentile to place into calculus.

[VeritasMama]

My father taught remedial classes in reading and writing in a program much like CUNY in Florida 10 years ago. There were many students who were reading at such a low level, my father was astounded that they had been given a diploma. We are not from Florida, my father lived there for 6 years after going back for his doctorate later in life, this was his position while studying for his PhD. Needless to say, it was a bit of a culture shock for him, in our small Midwestern hometown 80% of high school graduates attend college, and they are fully prepared in high school to do so. It is a state with one of the best "college readiness" rates in the country.

 

I also think there is too much of a push for everyone to go to college. I think we need to get back to the model where more students attend vocational and technical schools after high school. There is a shortage of good electricians in industrial settings, my husband is an engineer and there have been many delays the last few years on the projects he has been working on because of a lack of qualified electricians, welders, and machinists. If you have those skills, you can make very good money.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

My father taught remedial classes in reading and writing in a program much like CUNY in Florida 10 years ago. There were many students who were reading at such a low level, my father was astounded that they had been given a diploma. We are not from Florida, my father lived there for 6 years after going back for his doctorate later in life, this was his position while studying for his PhD. Needless to say, it was a bit of a culture shock for him, in our small Midwestern hometown 80% of high school graduates attend college, and they are fully prepared in high school to do so. It is a state with one of the best "college readiness" rates in the country.

 

I also think there is too much of a push for everyone to go to college. I think we need to get back to the model where more students attend vocational and technical schools after high school. There is a shortage of good electricians in industrial settings, my husband is an engineer and there have been many delays the last few years on the projects he has been working on because of a lack of qualified electricians, welders, and machinists. If you have those skills, you can make very good money.

 

Where is this worker's paradise? My DH is an industrial electrician but we've struggled for several years because there are 500 just like him in our city and no longer enough work to go around. They are all union-trained, certified, qualified and experienced. I would love to know where the jobs are delayed for lack of qualified electricians.

[Arcadia]

What does the headline mean by "cannot read"?

 

They fail the placement test for the community colleges. An example from my local community college

"

The English placement test includes three (3) parts:

1. 30-minute timed writing sample
   
2. Untimed multiple choice test for sentence skills, and
   
3. Untimed multiple choice test for reading comprehension"
   

The sample test questions from the community college webpage.

[SKL]

Bluntly, I don't believe it. Since probably 20% of kids enter school with some reading skills, that would mean nobody learns to read in school. I call bull pucky.

 

Someone is trying to inflame the populace. To what end, I am not sure.

[ocelotmom]

It looks like they changed the headline, maybe realizing that translating "80% need remedial help in at least one subject" into "80% can't read" makes them appear at least as uneducated as the students in question :)

[SKL]

I hear what you're saying about reduced instruction time. And that is terrible. But reading is a skill that most kids will acquire fairly easily, kind of by osmosis. It may be that the tests are too hard. It seems rather silly to expect "all" HS graduates to be ready for a non-remedial college course. Not everyone is cut out for college, and no educational strategy is going to change that basic fact.

 

My point is that by writing the headline that way, nobody is really doing anyone any favors. The 20% who passed the tests are the ones with the ability and drive to go to college. Should it have been 30% or even 40%? Maybe. But it's still been sensationalized. Why not just say "only 20% of HS grads read at a college level"?

[merry gardens]

It looks like they changed the headline, maybe realizing that translating "80% need remedial help in at least one subject" into "80% can't read" makes them appear at least as uneducated as the students in question :)

 

Interesting. Yes, the original headline presented such a shockingly bad spin on the reading and writing skills of New York Public School's recent graduates that it prompted me to ask more questions than the story answered.

 

Perhaps they'll write a new story: Headline Writer and Editors Unable to Read and Write

[merry gardens]

Thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts. :001_smile: I appreciate reading all your responses and learning from you.

 

 

At my son's CC, students need to score at the 56th percentile in reading and the 60th percentile on a multiple choice writing test to be placed into a college level English class. They need to score at the 90th percentile on the math test to place into the first quarter of precalculus (considered college level math) and at the 99th percentile to place into calculus.

 

Thanks for sharing your son's CC criteria. 56% of the general population falls at or below the 56%ile and 90% falls at or below the 90%ile. As CC draw from the general popoulation more (as increasing numbers of people go to college after high school), it doesn't seem nearly quite so dire as the initial headline presented it.

[EKS]

Thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts. :001_smile: I appreciate reading all your responses and learning from you.

 

 

Thanks for sharing your son's CC criteria. 56% of the general population falls at or below the 56%ile and 90% falls at or below the 90%ile. As CC draw from the general popoulation more (as increasing numbers of people go to college after high school), it doesn't seem nearly quite so dire as the initial headline presented it.

 

 

Just to clarify, the population used to create the norms was a group of first year students at 2 and 4 year colleges.

[merry gardens]

 

Just to clarify, the population used to create the norms was a group of first year students at 2 and 4 year colleges.

Thanks for clarifying that.

[ElizabethB]

NYC schools also are generally more toward sight words and whole word methods than some parts of the country. From giving out hundreds of reading grade level tests, I found problems with almost 60% of the students who learned to read with true whole word methods, 30% with a mix of sight words and phonics, and almost no problems in schools that used a good phonics program without the Dolch sight words. When I first started tutoring, many schools taught with true whole word methods. Now, most schools use a mix of both.

[Pen]

I would be interested in knowing if this is a change from prior years. If so, there could be something going on, and it might not be the schools. It could be that if they changed recently, but it could also be something environmental or social.

 

I graduated HS in NYC moving there from the west coast, as a general matter the education level at the time I went to school in NYC was far, far, far, far, ahead of what there had been available where I was on the West Coast. I mean, on the West Coast, I was an honors student at what was supposed to be a good school, and by NYC standards I was lost, incredibly behind. This is not to say all the public schools were ahead then, but some like Stuyvessant (the one I am making the comparison to, though I ended up at a private school instead), Bronx High School of Science, and so on, were far far more advanced not only in maths and sciences, but also in the "language arts" and other areas. OTOH, my father who made the opposite move and left an NYC school when his family moved to the West Coast, had to skip several years ahead and ended up finishing college at age 18, because the NYC schools were so far ahead of the one in Los Angeles to which he moved. Now, it is also the case that graduates of schools like Stuyvessant don't tend to go on to CC, but are more likely to be found at top 4 year colleges, or higher echelon state universities.

 

So, again, I'd be interested in knowing if something has changed. "The number of kids behind the 8-ball is the highest in years" quote makes it seem like it has changed, but what does this represent? Something real or a statistical fluke? If something real, why?

[*Lulu*]

So they are saying 80% of those seeking entrance to the community college need remediation, but did not give figures for the graduates headed to four year univerities? (Just checking to make sure MY reading comprehension isn't slipping. :p )

 

While that number is appalling, outside of the context of what percentage of HS graduates go on to CC and without the comparison of the percentage of graduates who need remediation at four year institutions, it does not provide a clear picture of the situation.