Spelling Rant--and a plea for help

[Critterfixer]

I'm about ready to punt. I hate this subject, I hate everything about it and I'm going to run away if I see another phonetic spelling in those slash marks!!!

 

What can I do? I've already said I hate spelling, and that's the truth. I never liked it and got by simply by seeing the word and remembering how it looked on paper. So I'm not a great speller since I've only got so much brain space. The constant "How do you spell.." is only slightly less irritating that seeing mispelled simple words in writing assignments. Picture perfect spelling on tests, out-loud, in dictation has not translated to better spelling in written work.

 

I've used Spelling Workout, Spelling Plus, and now Rod and Staff and I'm just about ready to explode.

Out of the programs, Spelling Plus was easiest to use, but it just wasn't working well. Spelling Workout didn't seem to have any common element in the lists. Rod and Staff is killing me with the details.

 

I can't get around WRTR for spelling-I've tried. AAS would send me under the table to hide from the tiles because I can't handle moving pieces. I've looked at Sequential Spelling, Apples and Pears, Spelling Power and I always but up against the same old problems.

 

If it is a workbook style program the activities always require so much explaination that in five minutes I'm blowing steam out my ears trying to stay composed.

If it is a program that leaves too much to the teacher's own initiative in explaining and creating activities I'm handicapped from the outset. Hating spelling I cannot create anything that isn't equivalent to an hour on the rack.

 

Somebody help before I go burn books!

 

(As for the boys and how much they retain typical tests for Rod and Staff range from 80-90 and Spelling Plus testing was better (90 and higher). They can handle some monster words, but still spell had, hade. Even with dictation in Spelling Plus they will still mispell many of the words in their own writing having done them many, many times in dictation.)

[nmoira]

:grouphug:

 

My fantasy program would be an interactive Sequential Spelling app, either standalone or web based.

[Critterfixer]

And yes, I know I am being immature. I probably ought to go do lines: "I will not lose my temper over spelling and throw my book against the wall and utter dire imprecations because I am the teacher."

[Chelli]

Well, we use Apples and Pears, and while it is workbook based, I don't find the instructions cumbersome to explain. The lessons tend to follow a pattern: Fill in missing letters for words or sentences. Copy words or sentence. Dictate words or sentence. Some work with prefixes and suffixes (taking them apart and/or putting them together). Spelling test and dictation sentences. Next level, same thing. It's really pretty easy. After a level or two both you and the student know what to do.

 

I did a review of the program on my blog showing step by step how the program is laid out. Maybe that would be helpful. Like you I floundered around for almost a year trying to find something that would work. Apples and Pears was it for us. Thankfully all of the books and the TM are online so you can do a practice run through a couple of levels before committing to buy.

[MeghanL]

I've really enjoyed Phonetic Zoo. It's a jingle, a word list and that's the end. It comes on CD's so your child could do it independently. One of the ideas I've implemented time and time again is to write each word on a white board using a different color for each syllable. This really breaks the word up and makes it *so* much easier to remember.

 

So, if spelling is giving you fits, I would just work off a word list instead of teaching a bunch of rules and see if you like that better :)

[Paintedlady]

Logic of English has saved us this year. Scripted & easy to use and it's working!

[boscopup]

I hate teaching spelling too (though I'm good at spelling myself). You're kids are 8 or 9? I forget, and mobile version of this site doesn't show sigs. Kids usually don't have spelling and original writing married well until sometime around or after age 9, so if they're understanding the spelling during spelling time, use the program that is easiest for you to teach. The rest should work out with maturity.

 

Apples and Pears would probably work well for you, though it is teacher intensive in that you have to read the words and such. There isn't much explanation involved though. It's not explicit phonics like R&S.

[Nicholas_mom]

I hear your pain and sympathize :grouphug: My ds does well on the tests and disctations but when he is writing elsewhere, even making diagrams, he will make mistakes that I thought he knew a word. He even can have a page with one being the correct word and the next sentence he totally spells it wrong.

 

I am hoping it the maturity thing because I remember doing well on tests but getting spelling mistakes on my compositions in school, too. So, I really believe its the maturity thing and contantly correctling their writing papers of their spelling mistakes so they eventually realized they need to spell correctly on their composition papers, too.

[Critterfixer]

I'm listening to suggestions. Not going to make many comments because I'm frankly so disgusted by the whole subject of spelling I can feel my jaw clenching down.

So much of this has to be my own attitude about spelling being such an illogical thing. Latin makes sense to me. Math makes sense. Grammar makes sense. Science is orderly and has patterns. History occurs in a sequence as well. But on a typical spelling list one might have multiple spellings for a sound. I understand how it is nice to illustrate how ee, ea, and ey all make the same sound, but to me to have to explain that (WHY, mom?) and then to have to basically say that you just have to memorize it, there's no pattern, no sense...that just galls me to no end. (And yeah, I can tell them why things are so messed up in spelling, but that's not the same as making sense out of it!)

 

That's why I don't really like word lists. Often they try to illustrate too much at once. I feel I might just have to make my own. There's not enough chocolate in the world for that.

 

I don't like the rule based stuff, mostly because there are so, so many exceptions, and then those have to be taught which makes the rule seem less of a rule and more of a pirate's code.

 

Ack.

[boscopup]

:lol:

 

Yes, the English language makes no sense.

[Critterfixer]

No, it doesn't. I could deal with that if I didn't have to teach it. And I've got to.

[8filltheheart]

I'm listening to suggestions. Not going to make many comments because I'm frankly so disgusted by the whole subject of spelling I can feel my jaw clenching down.

So much of this has to be my own attitude about spelling being such an illogical thing. Latin makes sense to me. Math makes sense. Grammar makes sense. Science is orderly and has patterns. History occurs in a sequence as well. But on a typical spelling list one might have multiple spellings for a sound. I understand how it is nice to illustrate how ee, ea, and ey all make the same sound, but to me to have to explain that (WHY, mom?) and then to have to basically say that you just have to memorize it, there's no pattern, no sense...that just galls me to no end. (And yeah, I can tell them why things are so messed up in spelling, but that's not the same as making sense out of it!)

 

You are singing my boys' song......and what I have written in numerous posts about spelling and poor spellers. (My boys do not simply see and remember.) Apples and Pears is the first spelling program that made sense and actually improved spelling. It might be what you are looking for.

 

However, if your children's issues are not the same as yours and you think they could learn auditorially, Phonetic Zoo would allow you to be hands off. PZ was a disaster for my 2 poor spellers however. They are both dyslexic science/math guys and PZ worked w/in the confines of spelling and did not translate across into their writing. Building/constructing words from morphemes, however, did improve spelling.

[Dolphin]

I think it might be the time of year, there seem to be a lot of people having issues with spelling, you are not alone. I was there last year. Here is my thread on Phonetic Zoo. At age 9 your boys should be ready for it. We love this program. DS does it independently. In 8 months he went from a low 2nd grade level of spelling to low 4th grade(DORA reading test both times) . No tears, no fuss. It might be worth you looking into, it will for the most part take you out of the roll of spelling teacher.

[Critterfixer]

I really want to be able to teach spelling. I don't want to outsource it to a program, although I would like it to be a little less involved. I really feel that I need to understand how to teach it.

I'm just not going to LIKE it.

 

I don't really think anything that puts heavy emphasis on the sounds you hear in a word is going to work with one of my boys. He has always struggled with vowel sounds, particularly short sounds of words. He reads at grade level, he's amazingly good at Latin (he just gets it!) and is the better speller of the two. I suspect he spells better because when he was learning to read he would spell through any word he didn't know before he would attempt to say it. This Rod and Staff program is really getting on his nerves. He is the one who spells had, hade. I think he lumps had with have. And he always gets have right.

The other boy simply suffers from brain/hand disconnect. He could spell a word on a test, spell it out-loud correctly, spell it in dictation perfectly and then forget it if he uses it in a composition. He was a real challenge with word lists because he has a tendency to spell the word on the word without really looking at it. He'd see ready, register it phonetically and then spell it as he heard it in his mind. Redy. Sed. You get the picture.

And I really, really don't want two spelling programs. It's confusing enough as it is!

[sixpence1978]

I would also recommend Apples & Pears for your situation. Both of your boys could do it. It really is easy. Yes, it is workbook based, but the exercises are so easy and repetative. It really doesn't take any brain power. Spend 10 minutes on it each day, close it, and move on. You don't need to plan anything extra. It also is not rule-based in the same way that AAS, SWR, WRTR, R&S, etc. are. Those exceptions always drove me crazy as well.

 

My DD's spelling has improved so much using this program that I highly recommend it. She has been a little bit burnt out on it lately, so we are taking a short break from it and doing Sequential Spelling. I find A&P to be easier to use even than SS.

[Mom2pandc]

I second the logic of English. It takes the time to learn all the multi letter phonograms and then goes further by explaining when you use each one. My first grader is even understanding way more than I thought she would. The grammar in it is also very solid in my opinion.

[Critterfixer]

It's looking like I ought to get Uncovering the Logic of English for me, and Apples and Pears for the boys.

I looked at both and Apples and Pears appears that it is for younger than 10, and Essentials Logic of English for older kids? I'm a little confused.

[8filltheheart]

It's looking like I ought to get Uncovering the Logic of English for me, and Apples and Pears for the boys.

I looked at both and Apples and Pears appears that it is for younger than 10, and Essentials Logic of English for older kids? I'm a little confused.

 

 

I went on Amazon and did a preview of Uncovering the Logic of English. It is simply a book explaining basic phonics rules. It is no different than How to Teach Spelling or WRTR or any other phonics rules source. There are no definitive rules for when to use multi-letter phonograms unless you want to focus on word origin. It still boils down to having to memorize when to use which phonogram to complete the sound.

 

Apples and Pears is not age based. There is a placement test somewhere on their website. THe A book focuses on simple sounds and basic constructions (like y to i, etc.....I think. I haven't taught A in probably 7 yrs.) The D book is going to have more complex constructions like con +struct +ion. ;)

 

Spelling through Morphographs is very similar to the 4 levels of A&P in a single text, though I am not sure if the words reached quite the same level of difficulty as A&P. I bought after completing D thinking we would move to it and it was actually below ds's spelling level (which is quite miraculous.)

[Critterfixer]

Well, I've got the placement tests for Apples and Pears and I'll see where the boys end up.

I've got to try something new because what I'm doing right now is like being stuck with push-pins.

[Edwena]

:grouphug:

 

My fantasy program would be an interactive Sequential Spelling app, either standalone or web based.

 

Sequential Spelling has DVD that you put in your computer and it does the "teaching" for you. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

[Crimson Wife]

Pssst. You don't have to use the AAS tiles if you really don't like them. Every once in a while I'll pull them out because for that particular lesson it'll be easier for me to show the concept with the tiles than on the whiteboard. But 95% of the time I just use the whiteboard. :leaving:

[Critterfixer]

Good to know about the tiles, because I really won't be able to tolerate them. You should see me with math manipulatives. :D "Where did all the linking cubes go, Mom?"

"They got what they deserved, son."

 

Still looking at spelling options now that I am calming down.

I know one thing I didn't do that I must do, and that is increase the amount of review for spelling. For whatever reason, (maybe just because they are fluttery little boys!) they need a LOT of review across the board. The worst speller is also the one who makes the most careless errors on his math, the one who stumbles with his Latin grammar if it isn't gone over regularly, the one who needs to say his memory work every other day for a very long time. He actually memorizes things very quickly--can pick up a poem or a book and recite it to you in no time at all, but if he doesn't keep it up, well it just sort of evaporates.

And I think I've not been doing a good job of making absolutely sure that ALL the old spelling words and rules get recycled via dictation and copywork, or used in composition.

I need to really do a better job of integrating my spelling into the rest of the Language studies--I really do.

[twinmami01]

:grouphug:

 

My fantasy program would be an interactive Sequential Spelling app, either standalone or web based.

 

There is one! Just downloaded it today. We haven't used it yet, but we'll start try that this week.

[weederberries]

There is one! Just downloaded it today. We haven't used it yet, but we'll start try that this week.

 

 

What's it called? :)

[nmoira]

 

 

There is one! Just downloaded it today. We haven't used it yet, but we'll start try that this week.

 

 

Heh. I had no idea. There's no android app though.

[ladyinthegarden]

We have been using phonetic zoo. My ds loves it. I didn't buy the audio with it. We use it together. If you use the audio it makes the program independent. The concept behind the program could be used for any set of words.

[weederberries]

If you feel like your boys have large gaps, I would recommend Alphabet Island Phonics Levels 2A and 2B. If your boys will tolerate a cutesy story, they'll learn just about all of the phonetic rules within these two courses and be ready to apply them to all words even as their vocabulary progresses. I've posted several times about what I like about it and why I recommend it. In your case, it does give a "why" to each rule and the exceptions, but it isn't a standard phonetic reason, but a story that makes it stick in your brain. Further, it is a fun way to learn the rules, but you get to customize the spelling lists based on their level. You don't have to spell "call" and "cell" to practice the two sounds of C (though you can, if that's where they are), you can spell words like "accent" and "success." You'll practice 50-100 words for each rule, distinguishing between words for which the rule applies and words in which it doesn't. I don't mean the exceptions (you do learn those too), I mean "do I need the rule about C in the word 'sale'?" When it is time to test, you get to choose the words at their level. This makes for better spellers, I think, than just memorizing 10 words that apply to the rule in a closed context. When they can choose the rule to use and then apply it out of the spelling context, that transfers to their writing as well.

 

Check out posts #20 and 21 in this thread and #5 in this one. It is teacher instructed and practiced, but I believe the time investment is worth it.

 

ETA: In regards to spelling had - H-A-D-E, I imagine that has just become a bad habit. I'd do some reprogramming on that one. Post the word on index cards all over the house...on the fridge, under the toilet lid, on the light switch, etc. Every time they come across it, they have to stop and say, "had...h-a-d...had." As a spelling warmup, call out 2-3 words they misspell frequently and have them write them 5 times, or stand up, spell it, sit down, spell it, stand up, spell it and so on until they've spelled it 5 times. The mistakes they make will get fewer and they will catch them more frequently. Make it fun, too. Any time they misspell it in their writing, they have to give you 5 (10? 50?) pushups, jumping jacks, etc (while spelling it aloud, of course). Get their bodies involved in the remembering.

[twinmami01]

 

 

What's it called? :)

 

 

On iTunes, it's Sequential Spelling. I can't seem to get the nd use working. I'm hoping to hear back soon on getting it resolved.

[ladyinthegarden]

I downloaded four spelling apps from Simplex Spelling today. They have a free one that you can download to sample it. Here is a video review of simplex spelling: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xks4q7_simplex-spelling-hd-ipad-app-demo-dailyappshow_school#.UVCTOz3D_IU The great thing about the app is the instant feedback, and the lower levels you can get a phonics hint. I also sampled the Sequential Spelling, and it seems like it is just for review of the actual curriculum, but I only sampled it, so I'm not certain. I didn't like the computerized voice in the app.