Ugh. Parenting isn't for wimps (long)

[Jennifer in MI]

Well, the first thing she should do is keep him at home if she's not going to supervise him in group play situations. If the kid has issues and the mom is exhausted, of course I sympathize with her. But... that doesn't give her a free pass to ignore his terrible behavior and act like nothing is happening.

 

Whatever the story is with the kid, the mom simply can not allow him to intentionally hurt other children. And if she is truly overwhelmed and doesn't know what to do, perhaps her time would be better spent finding professional help for the child (and for herself, if she needs it,) rather than letting him run wild at a playgroup.

 

I know I sound really mean, but I have heard so many moms play the "I'm so tired" or the "Tra-la-la, I'm totally oblivious to everything that's happening around me" cards as excuses for not watching and/or disciplining their own children in group situations, and I have no patience for that kind of behavior when it's a regular occurrence.

 

Of course not. But, this behavior may be the norm at home and she really may not see it as abnormal.

 

This was my sister. I don't know what to tell the OP. But, I have to say my sister has this child. My dd remembers a time when she was playing with my nephew. Nephew threw a lego at dd. It bounced off her and back onto nephew. HE came out crying that it was my dd's fault. When it all came out, my nephew admitted that that was what happened. HE didn't understand that it was wrong. My sister was DONE. She was tired. I TOTALLY get that my dd shouldnt' have had to suffer. And, neither should OPs child.

 

My sister was not the "I'm so tired" mom. But, this behavior was SO common at home that she just didn't see it anymore. This was HER norm. I really don't know what to tell OP. You need to protect your ds. But your ds' friend and his mom may really not know there is something else going on here. I don't know if you can bring it up to your friend or not. But, so many of your stories remind of me nephew and it makes me sad. Both for mom and child. It may NOT be the case that mom is lazy. She really may just see this as norm.

[Neige]

I've had to leave a playgroup for similar reasons. I'm glad you posted, because I really had the "Is it just me?!" thought swirling in my brain at the time. In our situation, the mother wasn't just oblivious, she actively joined in on her son's behalf. Boys fighting over a toy? She was right there, playing tug-o-war against the other child to win the toy back for her son. It was unbelievable to watch a full-grown woman bullying a 3 year old. In a group of 5 moms, I seemed to be the only person who this annoyed, so I left.

 

ETA typo - sorry!

[Jennifer in MI]

That could very well be.

 

My 9 year old son has Asperger's Syndrome (high-functioning autism). He struggled mightily at playdates when he was younger (and displayed some of the behaviors of "A" as described in the OP). Based solely on his behavior, I'm sure many people thought he was just a spoiled, out-of-control brat (in fact, I know some people did). He was also not diagnosed until he was 7.5 years old. He's doing much, much better now.

 

That said, I never ignored his behavior. No matter how overwhelmed I was. I always addressed it, and I always removed him from a situation when he was a danger to himself or others. I can't tell you how many playdates, events, etc. we left early over the years because of a behavior issue. Sometimes we left after 5 minutes, because it was clear that he wasn't going to be able to manage things that day. I totally understand how draining, frustrating, and overwhelming it is to have a child like "A". What I don't understand is the lack of follow-through on the mom's part as described in the OP. No matter what is going on with the child, there is no excuse for that. If the child truly has special needs, his behavior is not the mom's fault and she should not be held responsible for the way he is acting out. But she is responsible for what she does - or does not - do in response to that behavior.

 

I get it. I do. My oldest has been diagnosed with Asperger's too. We heard everything you did, I'm sure. And, I also never ignored his behavior. It was exhausting. It was embarassing.

 

BUT, seeing what my sister is going through, I have a new appreciation for certain behaviors. I'm not saying that OP should ignore the issues. She needs to protect her son. BUT, this child may have more issues than the mom can deal with. I certainly remember the early days with my ds and his Aspergers issues that I didn't know had a name. It was HARD. I just wanted to alert OP that this might be an issue here.

[Dandelion]

 

I get it. I do. My oldest has been diagnosed with Asperger's too. We heard everything you did, I'm sure. And, I also never ignored his behavior. It was exhausting. It was embarassing.

 

BUT, seeing what my sister is going through, I have a new appreciation for certain behaviors. I'm not saying that OP should ignore the issues. She needs to protect her son. BUT, this child may have more issues than the mom can deal with. I certainly remember the early days with my ds and his Aspergers issues that I didn't know had a name. It was HARD. I just wanted to alert OP that this might be an issue here.

 

 

Absolutely. The thought occurred to me too when I initially responded to the OP. You're right to point it out, as there may very well be more going on here.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I agree with the PP who said to just tell them this isn't as good a fit for your own child as you thought it would be so you need to withdraw from this playgroup. Thanks for all the good times, love to all, etc.

 

There's no need to analyze this child or his mother. You don't even have to spend time trying to understand her, blame her, pity her, or help her if you've not been asked for your opinion. Stay focused! The issue is that your child is not safe, he's confused, you're frazzled, and nobody's learning anything good. The less said the better. Avoid protracted discussions and/or psychoanalysis and just politely say goodbye.

[Shellydon]

I would no longer attend the group.

[brookspr]

We had friends that we had know since before any of us had children. We had kids around the same time and continued to hang out. As their son got older, he obviously had issues as he would always do something to hurt the other kids he was playing with when his parents weren't around. After a while we began to notice this pattern of behavior and would not let our kids play with him unsupervised. The last straw was when he purposely hurt our son while playing in one of those bouncy things. We know it was on purpose because my husband told him to stop doing what he was doing and he looked him straight in the eyes and did it again-body blow leading with the elbow while our son was down. When our kids came to us that night and said "Please don't make us ever go over there again!" we decided that even though we had been friends for 15+ years, we could no longer hang out with them.

[I.Dup.]

Well, the first thing she should do is keep him at home if she's not going to supervise him in group play situations. If the kid has issues and the mom is exhausted, of course I sympathize with her. But... that doesn't give her a free pass to ignore his terrible behavior and act like nothing is happening.

 

Exactly. A disability is not an excuse to be abusive to others. I know no one is saying that, it just makes me so sad when little ones are bullied by others while adults just stand around. Autism or not, the kid needs help and to stay away from others until his behavior is under control.

[swellmomma]

If the mom was trying I would have more sympathy. I was that mom with the bratty kid. Instead we were and continue to be kicked out of everything because no one wants my son around their "angel" to the point of parents allowing their kids to bully mine to head off what they consider a bad influence. The difference I see is I never just sat there and allowed the bad behaviour, I did remove, redirect, punish etc and continue to. And continue to get labelled as the bad mom of the rotten brat out to corrupt all the perfect little angels.

 

If it was me in a group with a family like this it would be the mom's action (or lack of) more than the child's that determined if I would stay or go. With a mom that was trying I would assume something more was amiss and help as I could. In this case it sounds like she is just being lazy or shut down like you said and that is no good.

 

I would also be very hesitant to assume at age 3 that your kid would never display these behaviours. ds9 was a perfect and I mean perfect child until 1 month before his 4th birthday and then it was like a switch flipped and he was a holy terror for a long time, at 9 I am still still reigning him in. DD5 is a sweetheart but she has her moments of pushing, or tantrumming or something but she faces consequences for those things, which it sounds like this boy does not. Kids do crappy things all the time as they are learning how to behave appropriately, some take much longer than others, but the key is an involved adult guiding the way not ignoring the behaviour.

[thebacabunch]

Okay. I have to say something. Yes, this kid looks like a spoiled brat. He seems like that under-disciplined kid. BUT. I have a nephew who looks like that kid. He thinks only for himself. He cries and makes everything look like it's about him. He is sometimes hard to be around. He was just diagnosed with high-functioning autism. My sister is exhausted with him. She is tired. She finally has a diagnosis. My nephew is nearly 7.

 

There may very well be a not-yet-determined diagnosis here. This child may have something else going on. Yes. You need to protect your son. I don't know what to tell you about that. But, his mom may very well be overwhelmed with him. She may not know what to do.

 

 

yes, this is me! My dd8 is not EVER invited to birthday parties, playdates, or anything because she has difficulties resulting from her autism. This has been going on for years. The parents want as little to do with her as the kids. I get it, but it is tough. I don't let her physically hurt anybody, not that she has ever tried, but she certainly isn't modeling appropriate behavior.

[AndyJoy]

If the mom was trying I would have more sympathy. I was that mom with the bratty kid. Instead we were and continue to be kicked out of everything because no one wants my son around their "angel" to the point of parents allowing their kids to bully mine to head off what they consider a bad influence. The difference I see is I never just sat there and allowed the bad behaviour, I did remove, redirect, punish etc and continue to. And continue to get labelled as the bad mom of the rotten brat out to corrupt all the perfect little angels.

 

If it was me in a group with a family like this it would be the mom's action (or lack of) more than the child's that determined if I would stay or go. With a mom that was trying I would assume something more was amiss and help as I could. In this case it sounds like she is just being lazy or shut down like you said and that is no good.

 

I would also be very hesitant to assume at age 3 that your kid would never display these behaviours. ds9 was a perfect and I mean perfect child until 1 month before his 4th birthday and then it was like a switch flipped and he was a holy terror for a long time, at 9 I am still still reigning him in. DD5 is a sweetheart but she has her moments of pushing, or tantrumming or something but she faces consequences for those things, which it sounds like this boy does not. Kids do crappy things all the time as they are learning how to behave appropriately, some take much longer than others, but the key is an involved adult guiding the way not ignoring the behaviour.

 

 

I totally understand and agree! My child is certainly not a perfect little angel and probably appears to be a corrupting influence on occasion. He is loud, excitable, energetic, and constantly moving. He is very large for his age and has a normal 3-year-old lack of impulse control. He is a very hands-on, rough-and-tumble kid. Sometimes I feel like he's the kid who everyone is thinking is a brat. But I hope that people see that I don't let things slide. I don't let him get away with hurting others or being mean. I am stricter with him than most moms in my circle are with their kids. There are always consistent consequences for his behavior and I remove him completely when necessary. This is my biggest problem with this situation. The kid is acting like a brat, but it's on his parents. I feel more sorry for him than upset with him. 4-year-olds can be expected to hit, be selfish, pout, tantrum, etc., but someone has to do something about it! My 2 close friends and I sometimes feel like we're the only ones who don't just sit and talk at playdates--not because our kids are particularly worse than the others, but because we care more. Sometimes we feel like we must be crazy and over-controlling, but other seemingly sane people who aren't directly involved agree that we're not crazy. And if we are, at least we have each other!

[AndyJoy]

Several people have raised concerns that he has aspergers or autism, but from what I've seen in the past 2 years I doubt it. None of the lists of characteristics I've looked at seem to fit him. I suppose it is possible, but I would be really shocked. I don't want to get into details, but there are some things in the family situation that have changed/gotten worse that correspond very closely to his escalating behavior. The birth of his younger sibling was one very obvious turning point. Once again, it isn't the boy's behavior that perplexes/shocks me as much as the mom's lack of action. I can manage a situation with a kid where there is a legitimate issue, but not one where the parent is completely passive.

 

I've started drafting an email. I need to cut it down and make it more general and less rambling. I am going to leave (and effectively dissolve) the group and I am going to be honest about why. Based on several other situations in our circles of moms, I seriously doubt that anyone else will ever be honest with her. They will talk about her behind her back and maybe limit contact, but never tell her to her face. My personality is much more lay-your-cards-on-the-table, so I'm going to buck up and do that. I don't think I can just leave the group and make up an excuse. Last time I tried that the person cornered me, scheduled a meeting, and forced me to confront the issue!

[Lang Syne Boardie]

My personality is much more lay-your-cards-on-the-table, so I'm going to buck up and do that. I don't think I can just leave the group and make up an excuse. Last time I tried that the person cornered me, scheduled a meeting, and forced me to confront the issue!

 

 

Nobody can force you to attend a meeting. Nobody can schedule a command performance to make you explain yourself. Nobody can compel you to participate in dramatic re-hashings of events. You don't have to do any of this. I mean, do what you want. If you want to talk it all out because you think that's best, more power to you and good luck! But nobody is making you do have these conversations. If you do it's because it's your choice.

 

If you want, you can just tell them that the playgroup is no longer a good fit for your family and it's time to move on. That's a complete sentence.

[AndyJoy]

Nobody can force you to attend a meeting. Nobody can schedule a command performance to make you explain yourself. Nobody can compel you to participate in dramatic re-hashings of events. You don't have to do any of this. I mean, do what you want. If you want to talk it all out because you think that's best, more power to you and good luck! But nobody is making you do have these conversations. If you do it's because it's your choice.

 

If you want, you can just tell them that the playgroup is no longer a good fit for your family and it's time to move on. That's a complete sentence.

 

 

I know. I should be more precise in my language. Physically, I could make myself walk away without addressing the issue. I have done it before. What I mean by "I don't feel like I can" is that my personality, temperament, personal moral code, conscience--whatever you want to call it--will not allow me to do it without feeling incomplete, wrong, false. I have walked this path before, and I am choosing to say something rather than smoothing it over yet again.

 

Technically I wasn't forced to confront it with the other person. I could have put her off, made excuses, continued avoiding her, etc. But her seeking me out opened my eyes to the fact that I wasn't really willing to just skirt the issue forever.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Please keep us updated! I hope maybe the Mom is just needing somebody to say it aloud. Maybe a solution will emerge, or at least you'll be able to quit the group with a clear conscience.

[Catwoman]

I think you're doing the right thing by taking action. Realistically, the other mom didn't leave you any choice.

 

I know that several people were suggesting that the child might have issues, but that doesn't excuse his mother from stepping in and stopping him from harming or upsetting others.

 

I blame the mother, not the child, and I know you do, too.

 

 

[Greenmama2]

Good luck. I admire you for being open about it.

[AndyJoy]

Email sent. I tried to be kind and encouraging, but I was also very direct and explicit. I tried to leave the door open for her to seek help rather than just cutting her off. We'll see what happens.

[Marylou]

Did she reply yet?