Cancelled field trip :(

[SquirrellyMama]

Two of my kids got in trouble this morning. One child got in more trouble than the other because he was the instigator but the other got in trouble too because I felt that she didn't use good judgment in the situation. Here is my question

 

Where is the line between standing up for yourself and thinking something isn't worth fighting over.

 

Here is what happened.

 

DD was getting into the van and DS wanted the same seat. DS tried to get in at the same time and take her out of the seat. They fought it out in the front yard. I saw them and got them inside and cancelled our outing. I told DS that he was not allowed in this seat anymore so don't think about fighting over it in the future. I told DD that she should have let him get in and then she could have come to me to handle it with them.

 

I guess I see 3 answers to this situation. I prefer answers number 2 and 3 :)

1. Fight it out and show little brother that he can't mess with her.

2. Let it go because a seat in the van is not worth physically fighting over. Also, tell me what happened so I can have a chat with little brother about the future of his seating arrangements in the van.

3. Come to me and have help without fighting.

 

I have actually never cancelled a field trip due to one child's behavior but thought this went too far.

[SquirrellyMama]

I'm also trying to decide if I should give them another chance this afternoon for a different field trip. What would you all do?

 

Kelly

[Kaleidoscope]

Ideally I'd want my kiddo to give up the seat and just talk to me about it and let me handle it. As far as a 3nd chance this afternoon, I think that would depend on my own mood.

[Guest submarines]

*Ideally*

 

I would've told mine that they were old enough to problem solve and fix the issue on their own, and if they couldn't, then I wouldn't be going anywhere because I can't stand taking fighting kids to field trips.

 

I would've helped them to cool off first, before attempting to problem solve.

 

I wouldn't cancel a field trip if a reasonable attempt at problem solving was made.

 

Don't you have a third child who, presumably, wasn't in the fight? How come she got punished and what is she learning from this?

 

Sure I'd take mine to another field trip, if it fit into my schedule. I don't want them to learn to hold grudges. Everyone behaves less than ideally at times. I don't want to allow these less than ideal moments to govern my days.

[KatieJ]

Ideally, I would agree that I would want the one to give up the seat or come talk to me about it.

I believe that I assigned seats in the car at times.

 

Another field trip today? Nope. You have made your stand you need to stick to it. They can show you another day that they are willing to work it out.

[mumto2]

I am assuming the dc's involved were the 11 and 9 yr olds. I am a softie so I would probably plan a new trip but be warned that my two really started to fight at that age pretty constantly. Lay down rules now especially about the car. For some reason where in a car can start a war in seconds. Ds now always sits directly behind me. Therefore he moves depending who drives. Dd gets the other seat. We have front seat issues now. No easy solution there.

[SquirrellyMama]

*Ideally*

 

Don't you have a third child who, presumably, wasn't in the fight? How come she got punished and what is she learning from this?

 

Yes, there is a 3rd child. She was upset that we were going on a field trip and she couldn't go to the library. So, she is now a happy kid who is at the library :) She's learning that if she stays out of a fight she gets to go to the library.

 

 

I wouldn't cancel a field trip if a reasonable attempt at problem solving was made.

 

I cancelled because they have been fighting too much lately. I think tonight at dinner we might have a discussion on fighting and problem solving. That will probably be our meal topic for a while.

 

Another field trip today? Nope. You have made your stand you need to stick to it. They can show you another day that they are willing to work it out.

 

I agree and I think we'll just stay home today. I was feeling badly for the 3rd child but realized after answering the above that she's very happy now.

 

 

Kelly

[SquirrellyMama]

I am assuming the dc's involved were the 11 and 9 yr olds. I am a softie so I would probably plan a new trip but be warned that my two really started to fight at that age pretty constantly. Lay down rules now especially about the car. For some reason where in a car can start a war in seconds. Ds now always sits directly behind me. Therefore he moves depending who drives. Dd gets the other seat. We have front seat issues now. No easy solution there.

 

We did have car rules and things were better but then I got lax because things were better. I can see assigned seating in their future.

 

Kelly

[Guest inoubliable]

#2. I'd let it go this time, but explain to kiddos WHY you're letting it go. It's not worth fighting over and that in the future, you'd expect them to let it go if something like that came up again. I'd probably go with some assigned seats for a while, too.

[Unicorn.]

My dc sometimes fight over seats, but not like they used to. At those ages, we had assigned seats based on their monthly chore rotation. It really did help. As they got older, and could start riding in the front, in brought on a whole new war! But if they fought over the front, I made them all go back to assigned seats. They didn't like that much. :lol: Now, they know if 2 of them are w/ me running errands or whatever, one gets the front on the way there, the other gets it on the way home. They rarely argue now, except when the whole family is going somewhere. My 6' 2" ds refuses to ride in the 3rd seat, and so it's usually the girls fighting over who has to crawl into the back. I do make them switch on the return home, and occasionally make ds climb back there.

[Julie Smith]

*Ideally*

 

I would've told mine that they were old enough to problem solve and fix the issue on their own, and if they couldn't, then I wouldn't be going anywhere because I can't stand taking fighting kids to field trips.

 

My Mom had this rule for when I was a kid. I suppose in theory it could work. But in our family the rule could have been rewritten as, "Eldest son gets what he wants because he will fight and get angry if he doesn't. And if you (As in me the younger sibling) complain then you both get in trouble for fighting. So if you ever want to pick the TV show, where to sit on the couch, sit in the front of the car, ... then you can when he is not around - but if he shows up you are out of luck. So Eldest gets what he wants and no one gets punished, or No one gets what they want and everyone gets punished because you guys are fighting"

[Miss Marple]

We had assigned seating which changed weekly. Our schedule included several scheduled weekly outings so everyone was fairly treated. When they got to the front seat stage, we added that to the rotation as well. It solved a lot of problems and kept us from having those times when I might have to "make a stand" over a problem.

 

Ideally, your child should have come to you with the problem. However, looking back, I can see that *I* was often not accessible to my children. Either I would be so frazzled that I did the "just give him what he wants so we can have some peace" to an all out dramatic moment where I threatened them all with dire consequences :cursing: . That often made them less likely to tell me and more likely to take it out on the offender at some later date.

 

It's hard to always be fair in all situations. That's why having some ground rules (like assigned seats) works well.

[SquirrellyMama]

My Mom had this rule for when I was a kid. I suppose in theory it could work. But in our family the rule could have been rewritten as, "Eldest son gets what he wants because he will fight and get angry if he doesn't. And if you (As in me the younger sibling) complain then you both get in trouble for fighting. So if you ever want to pick the TV show, where to sit on the couch, sit in the front of the car, ... then you can when he is not around - but if he shows up you are out of luck. So Eldest gets what he wants and no one gets punished, or No one gets what they want and everyone gets punished because you guys are fighting"

 

Ideally, your child should have come to you with the problem. However, looking back, I can see that *I* was often not accessible to my children. Either I would be so frazzled that I did the "just give him what he wants so we can have some peace" to an all out dramatic moment where I threatened them all with dire consequences :cursing: . That often made them less likely to tell me and more likely to take it out on the offender at some later date. It's hard to always be fair in all situations. That's why having some ground rules (like assigned seats) works well.

 

I agree with both of you. I don't want to have this happen. My DS happens to be the one that gets very emotional and loses his temper easily. I do feel like he was punished the most today so I hope it helps everyone else feel like they weren't all punished because of him. This is why I don't usually cancel things because of one kid. I guess I had just had it today.

[elfgivas]

in our house, physical fighting isn't an option, so absolutely everything would have ground to a halt. people would go to their rooms, and use their list of things to do to calm down and then after about 20 minutes i would have checked in with each one to see how they were doing. if its good, then we talk. if its not, then we go for another 20 minutes, and then talk. we would go back over problem solving and roll play what could have/should have/might have happened differently.

 

physical violence is one of our "non-negotiables", so there would be no fieldtrips, morning or afternoon.

 

and then i'd remove all media, follow our schedule to the letter, and add in extra outdoor time,

and the next time we went out to the car, i would be out first.

 

its definitely worth dealing with! i don't think you need to feel at all badly about it.

ann

[swellmomma]

I would have them apologize, replan the field trip because 3rd child doesn't deserve to be punished and assigned seats in the car. Once I had 2 kids they had assigned seats. Never a fight over who sits where because there is no choice. Everyone has their space and that is the end of it.

 

My kids would have been in more trouble for fighting on the front lawn than for fighting at all. Not that fighting is okay but it is normal, but you sure as heck do not put on a show for the whole neighborhood. So there would be consequences for that, but loss of fieldtrip would not be one of them.

 

Family outtings are not typically lost because we all need the change of scenery sometimes. I have been known to yell in the car as we are driving if they are bickering "We are a family dam*it, and we are having fun and loving each other. This is us being loving. This is us having fun. And if you can't be loving and have fun like us you are not family" That usually ends the bickering and gets them giggling because it sounds the complete opposite of loving and fun when mama starts having to yell.

 

But we still go because it is not fair to punish the innocent kids with the fighters, and because I know once there they will be like different children and be loving, and listening and blah blah blah, basically I refuse to punish myself out of a field trip too. I love them :)

[Danestress]

 

So Eldest gets what he wants and no one gets punished, or No one gets what they want and everyone gets punished because you guys are fighting"

 

 

I think that is how the rule works in a lot of families. And then, to make it worse, the victim of the bully kid also (1) gets called a tattle tale and/or (2) is denied a chance to ever stand up for herself, having to always go to Mommy to do it for her.

 

I hate fighting and don't want to tolerate it either. But I think when one kid is really bossy and selfish, the other kids shouldn't feel like tattling is their only option. Girls often get insulted for being too quick to complain to adults, but in some families that is presented as their only option.

 

 

[fairfarmhand]

 

My Mom had this rule for when I was a kid. I suppose in theory it could work. But in our family the rule could have been rewritten as, "Eldest son gets what he wants because he will fight and get angry if he doesn't. And if you (As in me the younger sibling) complain then you both get in trouble for fighting. So if you ever want to pick the TV show, where to sit on the couch, sit in the front of the car, ... then you can when he is not around - but if he shows up you are out of luck. So Eldest gets what he wants and no one gets punished, or No one gets what they want and everyone gets punished because you guys are fighting"

 

yes, my oldest makes everything a hill to die on and she will start a fight because she cares more than anyone else about winning. I try not to punish both parties for fighting like that (these fights are so hard to tease out, because they are so complicated), but bickering is treated differently. Both parties get punished for bickering because it takes 2 to argue.

 

That sounds more complicated than it is.

[Freckles]

My girls always had assigned seats, so it wasn't an issue. I must admit had I been your dd I wouldn't have moved from that seat. I would have fought for it. I have two brothers, and they get what they want unless I push back. This is just a reflection question not an accusation. If your dd had given up the seat to her brother and come and gotten you, would you have made him move? Or would your dd been told to move because she's older and expected to give in to little brothers demands even though he did not ask politely. The answer might put some insight into why she chose to duke it out instead of coming to you. I probably would have still gone on the field trip, but add extra chores. That's just me.

[bobbeym]

I'd for options #2 and #3. We rarely had problems with the boys fighting until DS14 was able to sit up front. We've recently had to reinstate the oldest-in-front rule b/c he likes to fight with DD about who gets to sit there. I don't know why he bothers to fight with her over it since she only sits up front when DS18 isn't in the car.

[SquirrellyMama]

My girls always had assigned seats, so it wasn't an issue. I must admit had I been your dd I wouldn't have moved from that seat. I would have fought for it. I have two brothers, and they get what they want unless I push back. This is just a reflection question not an accusation. If your dd had given up the seat to her brother and come and gotten you, would you have made him move? Or would your dd been told to move because she's older and expected to give in to little brothers demands even though he did not ask politely. The answer might put some insight into why she chose to duke it out instead of coming to you. I probably would have still gone on the field trip, but add extra chores. That's just me.

 

 

Yes, I would have made him move. In fact, I make him move a lot. I do sometimes make her move also if they are vying for this seat and neither have gotten in it yet. I try to balance it out between them. This time I definitely would have made him move since she was almost in the seat when he came out.

 

 

 

Kelly

[mumto2]

Just want to say on the front seat issue my need for a "co pilot" who is actively reading signs can be huge. Remember I am driving on the other side of the road in the middle of nowhere much of the time! Ds does a better job. That is the reality of the situation. If we are going someplace new and I can tactfully make it his turn for the front, I do. He is younger but is the better spotter by far! :) That being said dd has more activities that require my driving her so it balances.

[bolt.]

In my family, I would have cancelled (or indefinitrly postponed) any outing at all for that kind of conduct. In fact, I would have probably cancelled it for just bickering over a van seat -- and I have been doing that pretty much since my younger child became verbal and bickering became possible. As far as I know my kids have never physically fought (beyond the level of both tugging on something, or both trying to bum-shove into the same location). I think perhaps my strong-but-calm reactions to mere bickering allows them to extrapolate just how unacceptable it would be for them to actually lay violent hands on one another.