Thinking about switching from Singapore to MM ... advice?

[alisoncooks]

First, let me say: I :001_tt1: Singapore.

I really do!

 

But I'm looking for ways to make our school time simpler, and I'm drawn to the idea of an all-in-one teaching text/workbook. We're currently about 2/3 through SM 1A.

 

Here are my options:

1. Go ahead and get MM 1A & 1B and start over from the beginning

2. Start after Christmas with MM 1B

3. Finish Grade 1 with Singapore, start with MM2 in the fall

4. Don't switch!!! You'll regret it! :p

 

What would you do?

[freesia]

First, let me say: I :001_tt1: Singapore.

I really do!

 

But I'm looking for ways to make our school time simpler, and I'm drawn to the idea of an all-in-one teaching text/workbook. We're currently about 2/3 through SM 1A.

 

Here are my options:

1. Go ahead and get MM 1A & 1B and start over from the beginning

2. Start after Christmas with MM 1B

3. Finish Grade 1 with Singapore, start with MM2 in the fall

4. Don't switch!!! You'll regret it! :p

 

What would you do?

 

It's really hard to say without knowing your daughter. Let me first say that I LOVE MM. I am using it with my fourth grader and am amazed at how it stretches her. She figured out the algorithm for multiplying double digit by double digit before we got to the section just because of the pre-work MM had her do. And she is really retaining.

 

However, for my children, who do not have strong fine motor skills, the early MM are too busy and overwhelming. Even if I didn't plan for them to write the answer to all the problems, just seeing so much on the page would crush them. I say "would" but my ds did have a bad reaction when I tried to switch him from Singapore last year. I think the lay out of Singapore is more young child friendly.

 

Of course, YMMV. If I were you, I would stick with Singapore for the rest of the year and switch at second if I felt my child could handle the set up at that age. And, FWIW, I have gone to just teaching from the workbook (occasionally using the textbook, but never the Home Instructor Guide) bc I needed simpler.

[sbgrace]

You love Singapore, just not the number of books? I'd stick with it through this year and then try MM2. No big loss of money if it's not a good fit at that age (it wouldn't have been for at least one of mine because of the visual look) and you need to go back to Singapore a little longer.

[boscopup]

You know, when I was using MM, I stayed away from Singapore because of the multiple books, but then I ended up using IP and CWP with MM, so I was still using multiple books. :lol: And in the end, I realized that either program I used, I still had to teach, and my son still had to do problems. It really isn't much different for me? And the Singapore HIG has much more teaching information available, which is good for me. The grass isn't always greener. If Singapore is working for you, maybe see what you can do to streamline it a bit?

 

When I teach 1A, I just briefly look at the HIG, then pull out the textbook and go over the lesson, then DS pulls out the workbook and does the exercise. It's really not much, and it takes us very little time (5-10 minutes, including silliness). We keep the books together, so I'm not having to run around and look for books. My older son in 5B is somewhat similar, except that I do his work at the white board.

 

You could always print out a sample of MM and see how it works in reality for you. My kids much prefer the presentation of Singapore. I liked MM for what I used it for (accelerating my oldest to where he really was), but I much prefer Singapore now.

 

ETA: If you do switch, you'll need to check the scope and sequence. SM goes into a bit more than MM in grade 1, so you'd probably be able to skip some things in MM2. When I went from MM4B I switched over to SM4A and likewise had to just skip some things we'd already done.

[Alte Veste Academy]

OP, regarding MM's pages being busy and overwhelming, the criticism is legitimate. However, you can easily select and print a portion of each page with Adobe's snapshot tool. Doing this, you can break down one page into 2 or 3 pages, making all the text and answer boxes much larger and easier for younger kids to manage.

 

Just by way of an explanation, I think Math Mammoth is fabulous! It didn't work for my DS9 and I just stuck with SM for DD and DS6 because they are pretty agreeable to any program I use, and since I own and know SM inside out after using it with DS9, it seemed like a no brainer not to switch back. I still pull it out occasionally though, when I think explanations are better. FWIW, I think using all of MM is a better plan than using SM without the HIG. The treasure is in the HIG. And for my kids, the candy is in the CWP and IP. For MM, the treasure and candy are right there with the 3 squares. LOL My analogy is falling apart, but I'm sure you catch my drift.

 

ETA: Oh, and if she likes math, I would probably choose option 1 but speed through what is a breeze for her. If she just tolerates math, I would choose option 2, looking through all of MM1a to see what holes may need filling to compensate for different s&s.

[freesia]

OP, regarding MM's pages being busy and overwhelming, the criticism is legitimate. However, you can easily select and print a portion of each page with Adobe's snapshot tool. Doing this, you can break down one page into 2 or 3 pages, making all the text and answer boxes much larger and easier for younger kids to manage.

 

 

What a great idea! I'm going to use this as ds is finishing 2B and I'd rather switch him to MM as I have it and it's what he will eventually use. I was really worried about how I'd handle the small print and busyness. I love these forums!

[Corraleno]

I would look at current samples for MM1 — I have the "original" version, but it was my understanding that Maria revised MM1 in response to complaints about the density of the pages. I'm not sure if the changes weren't enough, or if people are referring to the earlier versions.

 

FWIW, I'm a huge fan of MM; I switched from Singapore and never looked back.

 

Jackie

[Classical Book Worm]

We did Singapore Essential Math A & B for kindergarten, then Singapore Standards 1A starting in first. Essential Math was great, but my son ended up needing a slower pace with more incremental lessons and review. Plus all the books were off putting. Math Mammoth is a great program. We did both books in level 1 and 2A. But I fell into the same situation as mentioned previously--feeling the need to add in things like Challenging Word Problems and Miquon and so forth. Plus, MM does suffer from lack of visual demonstration. For some, it is distracting, but in our case, a picture went a LONG way to convey a concept. We both got tired of the black and white (I prefer just buying the workbooks instead of printing it out myself). So after MM 2A, we switched back to Singapore as our only math program. I did need to start him in 2A. Singapore seems to be about a semester ahead at this point of the sequence.

 

I thought I'd never say this, but the multiple books is really good for us. The HIG is awesome--it's full of ideas and gives a schedule so I'm not constantly worrying about whether we've done "enough." When it's math time, the HIG is set aside; I teach the lesson out of the text, then he does the workbook independently. This has encouraged me to work with him more thoroughly during lesson time, while ensuring that he gets the concept enough to work independently in the workbook. It's actually simpler!

[maize]

You love Singapore, just not the number of books? I'd stick with it through this year and then try MM2. No big loss of money if it's not a good fit at that age (it wouldn't have been for at least one of mine because of the visual look) and you need to go back to Singapore a little longer.

 

 

This is what I would do as well.

[ErinE]

I switched from Singapore to Math Mammoth to simplify. We're often on the go so hauling around multiple books was a pain.

 

I like Singapore. It built a good foundation for my eldest, but he was burning through levels and I wanted a program where I could quickly print out additional workbooks without waiting for "the box" to come in the mail. Plus, I had another child or two using the program after him. I adapt the program for him; he doesn't do every computational problem, but I require most of the word problems and puzzle corners. I think MM's explanations, especially for long division and multi-digit multiplication, are fantastic.

 

I didn't feel SM1 gave enough fact practice for my youngest and it's a common criticism on this board. I supplemented with games and activities, but when DD completed SM1B and still was having trouble with addition/subtraction, I opted to start over with MM1. In the beginning, I did most problems on the white board or with c-rods. I used the workbook as a basis for guiding DD's lesson because it required a lot of writing. Now, she writes out most of her answers on her own.

 

I own CWP 1-5 so we add it in between levels, but it's not part of our daily work.

[Guest VOBetz]

I am a new forum member - and I don't have experience with Singapore.

 

I'm using MM with my 7 yo 2nd grader who loves math, but is easily overwhelmed. I love the idea of using Photoshop to cut down the pages. However, I have all of 2A printed already, so maybe for 2B.

 

What I wanted to share... What's working for us (in regards to the overwhelm) is this. We go through the first page of a lesson typically together. Then I take a look at the other pages within the lesson and I decide how much practice he seems to need, how much time he has, what I think his attention span for the day is... and I just take a pen and cross out sections he's not required to do.

 

Its really working this way, in part I think because he gets that overwhelm, but then I cross out a section or two and he seem much more willing to complete the other sections that I don't cross off. :) I don't know, it seems like he's more willing to put forth the focus & work independently, because he feels that I've met him in the middle a little more. Maybe.

[Corraleno]

What I wanted to share... What's working for us (in regards to the overwhelm) is this. We go through the first page of a lesson typically together. Then I take a look at the other pages within the lesson and I decide how much practice he seems to need, how much time he has, what I think his attention span for the day is... and I just take a pen and cross out sections he's not required to do.

 

Actually Maria doesn't expect kids to do a whole lesson each day in 2nd grade — the pace required to finish MM2 in a school year is only around 1.5 pages/day, or 7-8 pages/wk. Maybe that is all you're doing, but in case you've been doing 2-3 pages/day, thinking that's what's scheduled, I just wanted to give you a heads up. :)

 

Jackie

[fourisenough]

I use MM along with SM CWP and Beast Academy. I like having the teaching right in the book and tend to use the CWP/BA in between books (or when we just need a change of pace). My daughter has fantastic conceptual understanding and fact fluency (we used Xtramath.org for drill). I buy the printed MM books and my daughter has never complained of the pages being dense, cluttered, or otherwise overwhelming. So far, she has done all problems as assigned.

 

If you decide to switch, I'd finish your current book and then begin with MM 1B.

[blondeviolin]

We don't use MM but have the supplemental blue worktexts (by subject) that I've looked through occasionally. Definitely give a placement test whenever you jump. My oldest is completing SM 2a, but I was just looking at the worktexts today and she would pass the End of Year 2 test without working too hard. Math Mammoth is great because it directly teaches mental math strategies. Singapore gives you a few, but allows the kid to develop their own. We like the by-the-subject texts just for the introduction of DIFFERENT WAYS to solve a problem.

 

I don't think you could go wrong either way.

[Rasa]

We switched from Singapore to MM as well. We design our own math curriculum using MM Blue Series, which is organized by topics. In earlier stages, we used to do a lot of Math Mammoth problems orally. To minimize page density anxiety, I would use a blank piece of paper to cover the problems below the set worked on.

[alisoncooks]

Thanks for all the feedback! I'm still debating about whether or not to switch whole-hog....but I did purchase the print version of the Grade 1 books. I'll probably let DD work through them a bit over Christmas to see if she likes the style. I have a feeling she will -- this is my "I don't need anyone (especially mommy) teaching me anything!" child. I think she'll like a workbook that's more addressed to her (instead of my explaining and teaching with SM.) We'll see.

 

Again, thanks for all the thoughts!

[fourisenough]

You just described my daughter to a T - I think a child who prefers to read/digest on her own will probably like MM quite a lot! Best of luck & let us know how it goes.

[alisoncooks]

I got my printed Math Mammoth books yesterday and I think I :001_wub: MM, too!

 

:001_rolleyes:

 

I think the MM 1A looks perfect for where we are NOW (nearly 2nd semester 1st grade) but I can't imagine using them at the very start of 1st! (Singapore seems to have a more gentle beginning, with such a solid foundation in number bonds and lots of hands-on practice with manipulatives and games).

 

I'm definitely thinking I'll pick up MM after Christmas....but I'm also now VERY glad that we did 1A of Singapore first! (In fact, depending on how things go, I may use this same route for my youngest...just do parts of 1A in late kindergarten).

 

Thanks again for all the feedback. :) I'm excited to get started with it!