Has anyone switched from AAS after level 3?

[thegirlwhopaintedtrees]

If anyone has switched out from AAS after level 3, to what did you switch? I love AAS and want something similar (ie. not random word lists, uses rules of spelling) but cheaper. DD doesn't ever use the tiles, so I don't mean similar with regards to that aspect of AAS.

 

Thanks,

Julie

[Sew happily ever after]

We switched to phonetic zoo by IEW level a is where your child would probably place after AAS3. My DD worked through AAS6 and went to phonetic zoo level b. It follows rules similar to AAS rules but at a higher level. Sometimes I have to remind my DC which rules the words follow and review why. But its largely independent and I needed that!

[thegirlwhopaintedtrees]

Thanks! I just went over to look at it and it looks like it will work perfectly. Because my DD is young, she will especially like the zoo aspect of it. The price tag is especially appealing if I go with the budget package. Thanks again, as I had never heard of it:)

[kalanamak]

I quit most of the way through level 3. I tried SWS&V for 4 weeks, tried SWO (again) for 4 weeks, tried not to open a vein over spelling for a few months, and finally "found" Spelling Power. What a relief!

[mystika1]

I quit most of the way through level 3. I tried SWS&V for 4 weeks, tried SWO (again) for 4 weeks, tried not to open a vein over spelling for a few months, and finally "found" Spelling Power. What a relief!

I wanted to try Spelling Power really bad but when I inquired about it here everyone said how it really isn't rule based.:confused: They also said it only works for natural spellers.:glare: I ended up back with AAS with no tile work. I still want to try Spelling Power though.

 

Penny

[nansk]

Another good option is the Spelling Plus workbook. It is also available as an ebook directly from the author. You can see the rules and word lists in this handout.

[kalanamak]

I wanted to try Spelling Power really bad but when I inquired about it here everyone said how it really isn't rule based.:confused: They also said it only works for natural spellers.:glare: I ended up back with AAS with no tile work. I still want to try Spelling Power though.

 

Penny

 

I don't have a natural speller. He is pretty good at phonics, but is lousy at memorizing words that don't have *perfect* phonics, hates spelling, and gets frustrated easily with it. (All just like my spelling!).

 

It is rule based!! Goodness, each step is a rule and the child writes it at the top of the page!

 

However, it doesn't teach phonics, and we could not have started it before age 7.5 or 8. I think others have said 8 -- that you have to have phonics solid first.

 

If you go to Amazon's page for the 3rd edition, I have a long review of it.

[sleeplessnights]

We left AAS after level four because my son was zipping through levels and my second son was going to start AAS. I was looking for something more independent. We tried Spelling Workout, R&S spelling, and Soaring with Spelling.

 

However, after AAS they seemed unimpressive. And I realized that I really liked the dictation and writing station in AAS, so now we're back. Now I've got three kids all using the same tiles (1 in AAR, 2 in AAS) and we're much happier.

[thegirlwhopaintedtrees]

We left AAS after level four because my son was zipping through levels and my second son was going to start AAS. I was looking for something more independent. We tried Spelling Workout, R&S spelling, and Soaring with Spelling.

 

However, after AAS they seemed unimpressive. And I realized that I really liked the dictation and writing station in AAS, so now we're back. Now I've got three kids all using the same tiles (1 in AAR, 2 in AAS) and we're much happier.

 

I agree. I love the dictation in AAS. Is the writing station something that starts in level 4? My daughter likes making up her own dictation sentences and I enjoy making up our own sentences as well so I feel that with phonetic zoo we could keep up that part of AAS on our own, or with that Spelling handout a pp suggested. However, what is writing station?

[boscopup]

We left AAS after level 3. I flitted around between various things, and right now we're using R&S Spelling one grade level ahead, and Spelling City to reinforce. R&S 3 and up teaches phonics. It's not the same AAS rules, but they do phonics and syllabication and all that. I had tried R&S 2 early on and didn't like it, but R&S 2 doesn't focus on phonics as much. R&S 3 does, and as you go up in levels, it gets better and better. And the best part is that it's fairly independent, so I'm not poking my eyes out teaching spelling for 20 minutes daily. :tongue_smilie:I know, bad homeschool mom. ;)

 

I also like Apples & Pears, but it is very teacher intensive. I needed spelling that would get done every single day. R&S gets done. A&P sometimes did and sometimes didn't.

[swellmomma]

I went with R&S Spelling for the continued phonics work. It might be worth seeing if it would work for you. It is grade leveled, though , if that matters to you or not.

 

This is what I now have for oldest ds, and once dd moves through enough of AAS she will switch over to R& S. She is a very weak speller so we will be using AAS for a while first

[monalisa]

I switched to Phonetic Zoo partway through AAS 3. First we took a very non-productive tour through Spelling Power (it doesn't teach the rules, even though the words are grouped by the rules). My dd9 started in level A of PZ. However, I am seriously contemplating going BACK to AAS, or even doing LOE or WRTR. PZ does not teach phonograms and rules to the extent that AAS does, which I guess I knew but Andrew Pudewa's Spelling and The Brain talk convinced me it didn't matter that much. It is nice for PZ to be so independent, and she has done pretty well with it (she can spell most of the words she learned from PZ). But she is learning to spell harder, less common words with PZ (like conceive or siege) while she is still misspelling the simpler yet very common words she should be able to spell in 3rd grade. I notice this especially when we are doing WWE 3 dictation --- I have to spell almost everything for her. This is one of my major curriculum issues for next year!

[kalanamak]

I switched to Phonetic Zoo partway through AAS 3. First we took a very non-productive tour through Spelling Power (it doesn't teach the rules, even though the words are grouped by the rules).

 

Okay, people are saying SP doesn't teach the rules. I think we must have different definitions of teaching the rules. I dictate the rule, kiddo writes it at the top of the page, we go through a list of spelling words that reflect that rule, and a variety, not all hat, cat, sat, bat. Once he has all the words in the list down, we move on. During the review lists, if kiddo misses a word, we go over the rule again. If he misses on the delayed recall we go back to that rule starting with the list from the level before, and maybe add some I find in ABC and all Its Tricks.

 

What are you doing that you call teaching the rules?

 

(I did three books of AAS and a whole year of SWR, ( plus books A-D of SWO)-- and they present a rule, then some examples. AAS has some cards and tiles to move around, and some cutey names/tiles, and SWR has finger spelling and cards you flash, but they are all still presenting a rule and then dictating some words that reflect it.)

 

(I am being sincere, not snarky. I am honestly interested in what people call "teaching the rules".)

[MerryAtHope]

Okay, people are saying SP doesn't teach the rules. I think we must have different definitions of teaching the rules. I dictate the rule, kiddo writes it at the top of the page, we go through a list of spelling words that reflect that rule, and a variety, not all hat, cat, sat, bat. Once he has all the words in the list down, we move on. During the review lists, if kiddo misses a word, we go over the rule again. If he misses on the delayed recall we go back to that rule starting with the list from the level before, and maybe add some I find in ABC and all Its Tricks.

 

What are you doing that you call teaching the rules?

 

(I did three books of AAS and a whole year of SWR, ( plus books A-D of SWO)-- and they present a rule, then some examples. AAS has some cards and tiles to move around, and some cutey names/tiles, and SWR has finger spelling and cards you flash, but they are all still presenting a rule and then dictating some words that reflect it.)

 

(I am being sincere, not snarky. I am honestly interested in what people call "teaching the rules".)

 

Love ABC's & All Their Tricks! Very handy resource.

 

I think the difference is in the level of detail and incremental steps. It's been several years since we tried SP, but I remember one SP list was headed by a "rule" that said something like, "The long A sound can be spelled..." and listed 4 or so different ways it could be spelled. By contrast, AAS teaches ways one at a time, let you know if any rule applies (for example, ai cannot be used at the ends of words, while ay can), specifically uses additional visual methods if they apply (through word banks and so on), and allows the child to master each individual pattern before doing a "sorting" exercise where several patterns are put together. Some kids might not need things broken down to that level, while others do. SP didn't mention things like "English words don't end in I, J, U, or V" like AAS does. The "rules" it gave were more like generalities rather than, "here's when a certain pattern is used," etc... (Though I think sometimes people focus on the "rules" aspect of AAS and then are surprised when they get into patterns where there aren't rules. In actuality, AAS specifically teaches 4 main effective spelling strategies, and rules are only one of those 4).

 

Merry :-)

[warneral]

One thing I do is use the iPad app Spellboard which allows me to pick words and spell, say them and give context. It takes me about 10 min at the most to make the test. Then my kids use the words and practice writing, do word searches and scrambles. Then another day we take the test. This way we are slowing down our pace of AAS and reinforcing with the practice. I actually took my natural spelling (older) kids through the first 4 levels of AAS this year. Man we nearly got burned out on it. Next year I only plan to go through 2 levels and add in more iPad spelling tests.

[warneral]

I should add that even though they are natural spellers, I'm glad we do AAS. They have skills which help them know how to build words and their spelling has improved. I lasso like the dictation (or should say I see that it builds strength in their ability to piece sentences together and not just words.

[crazyforlatin]

Why can't someone just use this book to teach spelling rules?

 

We were using AAS, but stopped mid-way in book 3. I have no motivation to continue. I find that it moves too slow for us. What I want is just one book with rules, just like AAS, and just make a notebook for DD, dictate the rule, dictate the words, and that's it. I want all the words up to the advanced level under each rule.

 

Maybe I need to take another look at HTTS, which has sat on my shelf for months.

[Hope in God]

We liked the phonetic zoo here as well. My daughter was completely independent with the program and she enjoyed doing it which was a dream for me. She was an awful speller when she began and now when I need to know how to spell a word I ask her because she is so much better than I am.:001_huh:

[Alte Veste Academy]

Like kalanamak, we switched to Spelling Power supplemented by The ABC's an All Their Tricks. When the "loose rule" is listed and DC copy it, I will frequently read to the kids directly from the appropriate pages in ABC's to give them more specifics on the rule (quite similar to the way Merry describes). Sometimes I have them copy that additional information as well.

 

I left AAS midway through level 3 also. We found it painfully slow going. When we switched to SP, spelling quickly became DS9's favorite subject. I love that with those two books, I have spelling covered forever!

Edited May 18, 2012 by Alte Veste Academy

[kalanamak]

Why can't someone just use this book to teach spelling rules?

 

One could, but for me, personally, it would take some time and organization. (I do reread the opening info yearly.)

 

Plus, when this all started for me, I wasn't Ms. Confidence when it came to teaching. As my confidence is up, I find I need less prescriptive texts. Hence my attraction to SWR when kiddo was 5, and not after a few years under my belt.

[kalanamak]

Love ABC's & All Their Tricks! Very handy resource.

 

I think the difference is in the level of detail and incremental steps. It's been several years since we tried SP, but I remember one SP list was headed by a "rule" that said something like, "The long A sound can be spelled..." and listed 4 or so different ways it could be spelled. By contrast, AAS teaches ways one at a time, let you know if any rule applies (for example, ai cannot be used at the ends of words, while ay can), specifically uses additional visual methods if they apply (through word banks and so on), and allows the child to master each individual pattern before doing a "sorting" exercise where several patterns are put together. Some kids might not need things broken down to that level, while others do. SP didn't mention things like "English words don't end in I, J, U, or V" like AAS does. The "rules" it gave were more like generalities rather than, "here's when a certain pattern is used," etc... (Though I think sometimes people focus on the "rules" aspect of AAS and then are surprised when they get into patterns where there aren't rules. In actuality, AAS specifically teaches 4 main effective spelling strategies, and rules are only one of those 4).

 

A-ha. See, it seems clear to me SP is for advanced 7 y/os or 8+ year olds, and we already had all those "English words don't end in V" rules memorized when he was 6 (thank you SWR). I believe SP explicitly says that the phonics etc need to be down pat before beginning. When kiddo and I do SP either he or I bring up rules we memorized in years past. The power of SP, for us, is the strategy of rewriting the word, spelling it, closing one's eyes and visualizing it, tracing it, etc. So, we aren't on the "English words don't end in V" part of spelling, but more that "what is the statistical likelihood that the /e/ sound in 'measure' is spelled ea rather than e. How can I remember this? What other words also have this pattern? What can I do to make this word appear before my mind's eye so I can get it automatically on paper and thus spend my writing time focusing on content rather than on mechanics?" Etc.

 

Our problem with AAS was that the examples were so similar that kiddo glazed over. Sanseri noted in SWR that you had to keep pushing ahead even if everything wasn't learned perfectly to keep interest up. This is certainly true my mind and for kiddo's. Hammer on one point and he glazes over. Make it more of a challenge and a puzzle, and his eyes remain open.

 

AAS was "easy". Kiddo got everything right and didn't retain a thing. He was fast, efficient, and in a rush to get onto the next thing. SP takes less time, but it clearly more of a challenge because he makes mistakes which he then goes through steps to correct. It takes less time, but in our 4 months I've seen his spelling rocket up.

 

I realize that different kids thrive with different programs, and in one sense you can't compare AAS with SP because it is geared towards different levels of students. We are beyond the "English words don't end in V". Thanks for your description. I now think I know at least what YOU mean. :)

[monalisa]

Love ABC's & All Their Tricks! Very handy resource.

 

I think the difference is in the level of detail and incremental steps. It's been several years since we tried SP, but I remember one SP list was headed by a "rule" that said something like, "The long A sound can be spelled..." and listed 4 or so different ways it could be spelled. By contrast, AAS teaches ways one at a time, let you know if any rule applies (for example, ai cannot be used at the ends of words, while ay can), specifically uses additional visual methods if they apply (through word banks and so on), and allows the child to master each individual pattern before doing a "sorting" exercise where several patterns are put together. Some kids might not need things broken down to that level, while others do. SP didn't mention things like "English words don't end in I, J, U, or V" like AAS does. The "rules" it gave were more like generalities rather than, "here's when a certain pattern is used," etc... (Though I think sometimes people focus on the "rules" aspect of AAS and then are surprised when they get into patterns where there aren't rules. In actuality, AAS specifically teaches 4 main effective spelling strategies, and rules are only one of those 4).

 

Merry :-)

 

Yes, this is exactly what I meant when I said Spelling Power doesn't teach the rules. I guess it sort of does, but to me, teaching the rule means the child learns it and can repeat it and apply it. There was no mastery of the rules and how to apply them for my dd with Spelling Power. I really disliked what Merry describes above where they have many ways to spell words that have the same sound in the same list. Then it is just pure memorization, which did not work for my dd. My dd had zero retention from SP (and I did it exactly like the manual told us too, even buying sand and a big rubbermaid box for finger spelling), so I sold it.

[mystika1]

I think my dd's problem is that she can remember a bunch of rules but never actually applies them in her writing. I have to constantly remind her of the rule needed. That would not be bad if sometimes atleast one would actually stick.

 

For us, SWR was a scream fest. My dd LOATHED marking the words. Every morning when I took out the materials she would just cry. The only thing she liked about SWR was the little red spelling notebook.(she wanted to have her own spelling notebook)

 

The first time she used AAS she was excited to try something new. About a week later she started moaning and groaning when I pulled out the tiles so after about a month of her resisting the tile use, I eliminated the tiles and had her write the words down instead.(still using the rules as in the AAS Manual) We stayed on the lesson until she got all the words correct and could recite the rule. When she would write something for other subjects, she would get the words wrong again! I would back up and practice that same rule again and again and it just felt slowwwwwwwwww. I then purchased htts tm but it is confusing.(I didn't get the workbooks) Now, I am starting to question the need for my dd to memorize rules if she won't apply them.

 

Penny

[thegirlwhopaintedtrees]

Maybe I love AAS because I don't use it exactly as written:-P We never do review, unless it is evident my daughter has forgotten a rule and it is affecting her spelling of the words. If she gets a word or two wrong out of the ten words and all the dictation sentences and phrases, we still move on to the next step, but I make sure that I have sentences that use those words she misspelled. (If she had to review constantly, I doubt she would love AAS as much as she does. It would be too repetitive. Fortunately, she's a good speller and seems to retain what she is learning.) I feel I'm at the point where if I could just have the rules and word lists, I could pretty much just keep the flow we have, that works so well, going on my own. However, we just got to the silent E booklet today and my daughter was delighted in being a silent e detective the rest of the day. Little things like that make me want to stay with AAS, and the fact that she loves the program and that it does work for us. I hate to "fix what isn't broken" but we just can't afford it now.

 

I appreciate everyone's input and feel like I have learned so much more about some of the other programs out there. I think the budget Phonetic Zoo will be good to try and if it doesn't work out, at least it isn't too much money. We'll finish AAS level 3 and then see.

 

Julie

[MerryAtHope]

A-ha. See, it seems clear to me SP is for advanced 7 y/os or 8+ year olds, and we already had all those "English words don't end in V" rules memorized when he was 6 (thank you SWR). I believe SP explicitly says that the phonics etc need to be down pat before beginning. When kiddo and I do SP either he or I bring up rules we memorized in years past. The power of SP, for us, is the strategy of rewriting the word, spelling it, closing one's eyes and visualizing it, tracing it, etc. So, we aren't on the "English words don't end in V" part of spelling, but more that "what is the statistical likelihood that the /e/ sound in 'measure' is spelled ea rather than e. How can I remember this? What other words also have this pattern? What can I do to make this word appear before my mind's eye so I can get it automatically on paper and thus spend my writing time focusing on content rather than on mechanics?" Etc.

 

Our problem with AAS was that the examples were so similar that kiddo glazed over. Sanseri noted in SWR that you had to keep pushing ahead even if everything wasn't learned perfectly to keep interest up. This is certainly true my mind and for kiddo's. Hammer on one point and he glazes over. Make it more of a challenge and a puzzle, and his eyes remain open.

 

AAS was "easy". Kiddo got everything right and didn't retain a thing. He was fast, efficient, and in a rush to get onto the next thing. SP takes less time, but it clearly more of a challenge because he makes mistakes which he then goes through steps to correct. It takes less time, but in our 4 months I've seen his spelling rocket up.

 

I realize that different kids thrive with different programs, and in one sense you can't compare AAS with SP because it is geared towards different levels of students. We are beyond the "English words don't end in V". Thanks for your description. I now think I know at least what YOU mean. :)

 

Yes, different kids thrive with different programs, I agree. The example I gave was from early on in the program--AAS 7 takes kids up to high school level spelling. I just gave that to show the level of detail AAS breaks things down to. The words do start very easy because they only use concepts that have been taught to that point. Later on it puts everything together.

 

Glad SP is working well for you, it's such a great feeling when you hit on the program that helps your child succeed!

[MerryAtHope]

Now, I am starting to question the need for my dd to memorize rules if she won't apply them.

 

Penny

 

How old is she? (I just looked & see that she's 9). Maybe she's just not ready to put everything together. But here's how I help my kids with editing and taking more ownership of the rules. Maybe something in there will help, whether or not you ever try AAS again.

 

Merry :-)

[creekster519]

Maybe I love AAS because I don't use it exactly as written:-P We never do review, unless it is evident my daughter has forgotten a rule and it is affecting her spelling of the words. If she gets a word or two wrong out of the ten words and all the dictation sentences and phrases, we still move on to the next step, but I make sure that I have sentences that use those words she misspelled. (If she had to review constantly, I doubt she would love AAS as much as she does. It would be too repetitive. Fortunately, she's a good speller and seems to retain what she is learning.)

 

:iagree: Sounds like my son. We only review as much as he needs. If he gets it, we move on.

Edited May 19, 2012 by creekster519

[kalanamak]

I really disliked what Merry describes above where they have many ways to spell words that have the same sound in the same list. Then it is just pure memorization, which did not work for my dd. .

 

I've been thinking about this. Some part of spelling IS just memorization.

How does one decide which spelling for these:

 

bred

bread

 

steal

steel

 

I think SP has worked for us because kiddo has the phonics and even the statistical likelihood of a spelling down (SWR does a fine job of listing, e.g. the sounds of ea in order of occurence (/E/, /e/, and then /A/)). What he needed was help on really LOOKING at a word, thinking about what other words he could associate with it, and then just plain old memorizing it.

[kalanamak]

INow, I am starting to question the need for my dd to memorize rules if she won't apply them.

 

Penny

 

Pecked to death by ducks. I keep with rules and definitions until "the nickle drops". There are some math rules I've been repeating for 4 years now. Every now and then those pingpong balls I'm throwing at the wall will stick. This really is a marathon, and some day, perhaps when she's much older, the lightbulb will come on and she will remember!

 

Oh, and on SWR, we did all those marks verbally. :)

[timetoteach]

The lessons in Aas2 and especially aas3 tend to be tedious and long. Lots of info packed into each lesson. I can understand why people would switch as these points. We were contemplating it too. We are halfway through AAS4 now....and these lessons are much better. The lessons aren't as dense...not as many rules to memorize, not as much teaching, and more pattern recognition. Tile work is minimal, and we've turned writing station into a challenge in which DD must write the least number of sentences with all the 5-6 writing station words...sometimes we compete against each other to see who can form just one sentence with the words. (AAS asks you to form a sentence for each writing station word).

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[happycc]

I placed two kids in AAS different levels based on spelling ability and another child who is a natural speller in Spelling Power.

 

AAS does move slowly and the words were very easy.

 

Spelling Power moved quickly and the words were harder.

 

However looking back I wished I placed my natural speller in AAS first. Reasons are her spelling still catches and I have no way of explaining to her the spelling rules when she makes a mistake. When my other daughters misspell something all I have to say is the rule and then they know. So now I need to decide if I want to backtrack her or what.

 

Phonetic Zoo looks interesting.

[kalanamak]

 

However looking back I wished I placed my natural speller in AAS first. Reasons are her spelling still catches and I have no way of explaining to her the spelling rules when she makes a mistake. When my other daughters misspell something all I have to say is the rule and then they know.

 

Why can't you say the rule to the other daughter? I'm trying to picture this.

I don't see the rules as so difficult to "explain". They are rules.

 

(BTW, I'm not trying to badger anyone, I'm truly curious about how other people teach spelling, and even if spelling CAN be taught other than just working at it -- this was a topic of a fun discussion at a WTM potluck. Since SP has failed so many here, I'm wondering if it is because is isn't scripted enough or, e.g., people are starting it too soon.)

[j3mom]

The lessons in Aas2 and especially aas3 tend to be tedious and long. Lots of info packed into each lesson. I can understand why people would switch as these points. We were contemplating it too. We are halfway through AAS4 now....and these lessons are much better. The lessons aren't as dense...not as many rules to memorize, not as much teaching, and more pattern recognition. Tile work is minimal, and we've turned writing station into a challenge in which DD must write the least number of sentences with all the 5-6 writing station words...sometimes we compete against each other to see who can form just one sentence with the words. (AAS asks you to form a sentence for each writing station word).

 

We just finished AAS 3. The work seemed slow and the lessons long. The words were really not getting harder. I am glad to hear this, as I am now looking forward to AAS 4, putting thoughts about switching aside :-)

I so needed to hear this, and others who switched and are regretting it later.

Thanks, guys, this forum is great!:)

[timetoteach]

We are in the middle of AAS Level 4 and are switching to Megawords next year. What I have found is that ds is just memorizing all the words/patterns each week. If you are studying the sound of /er/ spelled 'ir', then all the words are going to be spelled 'ir', so what's hard about remembering that? In our case at least, it is not transferring over.

 

We will continue to use the tiles.

 

Yes, there definitely is more memorization in AAS4. It is important to "mix" up the cards from different lessons during review, or complete writing the 10 sentences at the end (which pull words from previous lessons). I will say, for the cost, there is much more meat in previous Levels, particularly AAS2/3. But again, we are only halfway through AAS4.