TOG loose threads vent

[choirfarm]

GRR.. I have just resigned from this group. Someone posted that they wished it was more one topic and less chatty as they couldn't keep up. Several people replied. (This group will have 300 messages a day sometimes) My reply said that yes I couldn't keep up and a few members chat so much among themselves that it feels cliquy (sp?). There were also so many prayer requests that I coulsn't keep it all straight either, which is great. I suggested she join the specific year plan as they were much more quiet and on topic. That is all I said. i was put on moderated status. When I questioned this, they said they had put a few people on moderated status and now that it had calmed down they would put me back. ????????? I guess my statement about it feeling like a clique made them upset... But it is true, If you are not part of these girls chatting back and forth about silly things, you feel out of it. I understand that this is allowed in this group, but newcomers will still feel like that and they should be told that the other groups might be better. So I responded to the moderator and asked her how in the world it had "calmed" down. I never read anyone being rude or anything... I got a one page response from the list owner about how I made the person feel like she was unappreciated and there was a lot going on behind the scenes and not to question them about things in the future.. ???? No questioning??? So I just left the group and vented here. I don't think asking questions is bad. I don't think having some explain why I was moderated is bad (she didn't know exactly why and couldn't search the hundreds of posts (not mine... I post maybe twice a month..mainly a specific question or a good resource) to find out why I was moderated. She asked me just to accept the discipline when she couldn't explain why I was disciplined. My children would not accept this!!!!!!!

 

Christine

[Trivium Academy]

I really can't stand the yahoo groups, if you have a small group it's mangageable but once it grows beyond about 20 active participants, it's hard to keep track of anything. I don't like the chattiness either, if I wanted that, I'd come here. Lol. I love these boards b/c I can talk about school on the Curriculum board and chat it up over here at the General, plus they don't junk up my email box unless I subscribe to a thread.

 

Sorry Christine. :grouphug:

[Quiver0f10]

I had to unsubscribe to the loose threads group because I couldn't keep up with the mail. I guess I could have gone to the digest instead of daily mail, but it was too much for me.

[Jackie in AR]

I agree that TOG Loose Threads is a very cliquey loop.

 

I've thought several times that I should unsubscribe from it because I normally just delete everything I receive each day. But every once in a while a subject line will catch my eye, and I'll be glad I read that post. Plus, I recently won a prize in the 5-year anniversary extravaganza. ;) (That was one of the days when a subject line caught my eye, I answered the very next question, and won.)

 

Anyway, I'm sorry that you had a bad experience, Christine.

[Tarheel Heather]

NOt a lot pertaining to TOG with that group, I seldom look at it.

[M&M]

I was really beginning to wonder about that group. I could never put my finger on why I didn't like it. I thought I would get some great tips from that group and I haven't.

 

I wouldn't feel bad -- consider the source.

[Moxie]

I really dislike Yahoo groups. Every one of them has a rule "please keep messages ON TOPIC" but then people post things like prayer requests for lost keys, OT questions and general chatter. Drives me nuts!! This is my email, people!! Quit clogging it!!

 

Melissa

[Karenciavo]

I followed that conversation and I agree that the moderators were very easily offended over absolutely nothing. I see nothing wrong with having a general group that stays on topic. I've moderated an on topic TOG yahoo group in the past, it's not that hard.

[gardenschooler]

Well, because it is a chatty board, not an on-topic board, it's impossible to get any real information about how to use TOG from it. I have to search to find anything, and even then, it's a lot of digging. The Year groups seem to be better as far as sticking to the topic.

 

I haven't had much luck with any of the groups/forums. I actually got really hung up on one thing because of so much conflicting opinion! I've now decided those groups are not going to do me any good - it's all someone's opinion, anyway, so why get myself confused?

 

Besides, anything I ever needed to know about TOG, I've got karenciavo right here. :D

[Kate in Arabia]

This is my email, people!! Quit clogging it!!

 

I'm in quite a few Yahoo groups and this is why my settings are always to check the messages on the website, I don't get any emails in my inbox. Most of the groups don't get that much traffic, but some of them are out of control...

[genie]

What timing! I just joined that yahoo group yesterday because I'm wanting to learn more about TOG. I thought that for as busy as the group was, it was going to be full of great information. I went back several pages and still couldn't find much. Oh well. I'll be going through the files section to see what's there, and maybe do a few searches. Hopefully I will learn something. I would really like to find people who are using TOG secularly, but I don't think that yahoo group is the place to look. :)

[Karenciavo]

I was a member of that group when it started and I think a little history may help. It started as the Year 1 group. Many people in the group were friends before the group even formed, military wives. When the school year ended they didn't want to end the group because there was so much prayer support and off topic discussions, it was a close knit group. What you see today is a continuation of that, a small group of very close women chatting because they know each other so well and most of whom have been together for 5 years. It really doesn't work well for newbies who are shy. Some do jump in and do fine, but many don't. I think an on topic general forum would serve many people who feel frustrated with LooseThreads.

[Jackie in AR]

=I think an on topic general forum would serve many people who feel frustrated with LooseThreads.

 

I think an on-topic general forum would be a great idea.

 

Lately, LooseThreads is more like the General Board here, and that is fine. The discussion seems to go in cycles: there are times where there is lots of TOG talk, and times when . . . there's not. ;) And they are pretty upfront about the fact that there may be lots of posts per day.

 

But I'm not interested in all that chit-chat there. I can't even keep up with the chit-chat here. :tongue_smilie:

 

So, who's gonna step up and start an on-topic general forum? ;)

[Melissa in CA]

NOt a lot pertaining to TOG with that group, I seldom look at it.

 

:iagree: I personally don't care for it. Rarely are they discussing anything of importance in regards to homeschooling OR TOG. Lots and lots of prayer requests and chatty nothingness. :tongue_smilie: If I want to chat about nothing or non schooling topics I would rather come here to the General Board where I can pick and choose my 'poison.' ;)

 

The TOG year specific boards are much better than the TOGLooseThreads if you are one needing info about TOG. Just don't ask for any non TOG specific curriculum comparisons, or you'll get a good hand-smacking. :blink:

[gardenschooler]

 

So, who's gonna step up and start an on-topic general forum? ;)

 

Thanks, Jackie! Where do we sign up? :lol:

[Melissa in CA]

Thanks, Jackie! Where do we sign up? :lol:

 

:w00t: Yes Jackie, please let us know when you have it all set up! :lol: :D

[kristavws]

I also unsubscribed from that board for the previously mentioned reasons. I have found the year-specific board to be beneficial.

 

Krista

[choirfarm]

has been much more active lately. The group for year 1 was rather dead last year. There were a few good discussions, but it was hit or miss. The year 2 group seems much better.

 

Thanks for the history lesson.

 

Christine

[Rachel]

I've tried over and over again to like that group.........I sign up, I unsubscribe........over and over again.

 

I always leave for the same reasons

.....too much cliqueyness (that is SO not a word)

.....I find unless you are "in" you don't always get your questions answered

.....there is very little about TOG discussed on this board

.....the moderators are very biased and not good at moderating and determining appropriate vs inappropriate posting

 

I would really prefer a group that was ON TOPIC ONLY!!!!

 

I, like many others have stated, come here for chatting......on a TOG list I want to talk TOG.........period!

[Jackie in AR]

Thanks, Jackie! Where do we sign up? :lol:

 

:w00t: Yes Jackie, please let us know when you have it all set up! :lol: :D

 

OK, I'll do it.

 

 

 

For some rep.;)

 

 

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

 

 

Seriously, though, do we need a WTM-TOG general, on-topic yahoo group? There are a lot of TOG posts on this board. It might be nice to have them all in one place.

 

I don't have the first clue as to what it would take to moderate such a group, so I'm not saying that I will do it. But I am willing to think about it since I'm planning on using TOG for the foreseeable future.

[siloam]

Christine,

 

(((hugs)))

 

Wow! I am sorry all that is going on behind the scenes. I really dislike it when things are going on behind the scenes. Not being able to question things doesn't fly with me either.

 

I am also with you on the not discussing other curriculium position. I mean I get it on the Loose Threads, because it is so huge. But on the TOG forums? Yes I have read the reason and to me it just seems like a legal cop out. That is just my personal opinion and there might be more to it (maybe someone threatened a lawsuit?), which is why I don't normally make a big deal out of it.

 

It also really put me off when they cut the loom.

 

Now that doesn't mean I don't appreciate TOG in other ways. Their policy on upgrading is amazing. The access to Marcia and other key people is nice. Obviously I love their product or I wouldn't be using it. :D

 

It seems every organization has their down side. SL you can post just about anything you want, but you have to pay to get on the forums (I laugh every time Shellie posts an unsolicited you should use TOG instead of SL post on the SL choosing forum-unsolicited in that the OP wasn't asking about TOG just SL), WP won't allow you to re-sell their IG's (I am sure other people could give other examples), so I guess TOG isn't alone.

 

I too would love to see a more on topic group. I would also like to see a place for new people to ask for a side by side comparison of TOG to XYZ, but I am not sure it would work as the same group.

 

Heather

 

[Retired]

one time about a year ago. I think I ask about waiting for the new year 2 or using the classic. I don't remember, but anyway I got a response only from the moderator. She was not helpful. There were no other responses to my question. I left the group.

[happygrrl]

I find people to be so helpful here that I have never posted on TLT group! I get a daily digest, but honestly since all the posts about the getTOGether a while back I just delete the digests before reading them. Not that I think the get TOGetehr was a bad idea; just that I wasn't going, nor did I know who anyone was even talking about, so it did no apply to me. I am too busy to even be an integral part of the forums I really like (like this one!). I imagine I will just delete my subscription as soon as I get a minute. Now that I know it is a tad creepy (I felt it but thought it was just me?) I imagine I'll delete sooner rather than later. So sorry you had to go through that!

[*anj*]

So, who's gonna step up and start an on-topic general forum? ;)

 

I think you could do it, Jackie!

 

Actually since there are so many of us why don't we just start chatting over there? One of us could ask a question and the rest of us could answer and then we could laugh and chat and they'd wonder who we are and where we came from! :D

 

I went into the TOG chat room on the day of the Anniversary Party, and they were just talking, so I jumped in. Someone said "Who are you?"

I didn't know who she was talking to at first, but then she asked again "What is your name?"

And I said "Are you talking to me?"

She said that she was.

So I just said that she doesn't know me, but I lurk and I thought I'd answer a question.

 

I was more or less dismissed. That was weird. I can't imagine someone coming here and being asked "Who are you?"

[*anj*]

 

I am also with you on the not discussing other curriculum position. I mean I get it on the Loose Threads, because it is so huge. But on the TOG forums? Yes I have read the reason and to me it just seems like a legal cop out. That is just my personal opinion and there might be more to it (maybe someone threatened a lawsuit?), which is why I don't normally make a big deal out of it.

 

It also really put me off when they cut the loom.

I see it the other way around. I'd understand if they didn't want other curricula to be discussed on the TOG forums because they sell it and it's their bread and butter. I don't understand upholding that policy on the LT board because as a Yahoo Group it isn't paid for by Lampstand.

 

I think that it is good and necessary for customers to compare products. What better place than on a board full of experts?

 

Oh, and what did you mean when you said that they cut the loom? What happened to it?

[Melissa in CA]

but honestly since all the posts about the getTOGether a while back I just delete the digests before reading them.

 

Oh my! Wasn't that GetTOGether thread that went on and on and on annoying? That is about the time I tuned the group out as well. I still get the digests and open about every 5th one to see if there is anything of interest being discussed. It's a pretty useless group. I do like the Year 1 group but I don't often post on it...just glean info. ;)

[Tarheel Heather]

I can set up a group if anyone is truly interested.

 

I had thought about dropping it a few days ago, but we are in it for the duration!

 

So, if anyone wants one I would be willing to set it up.

[siloam]

I see it the other way around. I'd understand if they didn't want other curricula to be discussed on the TOG forums because they sell it and it's their bread and butter. I don't understand upholding that policy on the LT board because as a Yahoo Group it isn't paid for by Lampstand.

 

I think that it is good and necessary for customers to compare products. What better place than on a board full of experts?

 

Oh, and what did you mean when you said that they cut the loom? What happened to it?

 

I see your point. I am just so used to other curriculum that I frequent (SL and WP) allowing you to discuss any other curriculum.

 

Ok I am a classic user so I probably have my terms mixed up. It was probably just part of the loom, the resource list. That link is the thread on TOG about it.

 

Overall I am happy, even with the Loose Threads Group because there is one gal who used to do SL when I started SL that always pays attention to me, so I don't feel left out. :D That said I would prefer a group where there was more talk about using TOG. Things really click for me when someone who is using it types up a word picture of what they are doing.

 

Heather

[siloam]

I can set up a group if anyone is truly interested.

 

I had thought about dropping it a few days ago, but we are in it for the duration!

 

So, if anyone wants one I would be willing to set it up.

 

If you do I would join!

 

Heather

 

[gardenschooler]

I think you could do it, Jackie!

 

Actually since there are so many of us why don't we just start chatting over there? One of us could ask a question and the rest of us could answer and then we could laugh and chat and they'd wonder who we are and where we came from! :D

 

quote]

 

I don't feel comfortable over there. I have to be where everyone knows my name. :D

 

I posted a question on the Year 2 group, and all I said by way of an intro is "I'm gardenschooler on the WTM boards," thinking, hey, everyone knows me, right? I didn't really care to waste time on my life story, I just had a question about maps.

 

They were all, "What's your name? Who's your daddy?" :lol:

 

Actually, the person that asked that (ok, not "Who's your daddy?") was nice, but no one can really help me. I'm having big issues with a few things. I also have to vent a little (but my blog's handy for that). I don't want to be somewhere where I have to be all schmoozy about it.

 

And, "However it works best for you," is NOT an answer. Not an answer.

 

Maybe I'm better off rambling on my blog about it. I did sort of have a breakthrough last night, after just about giving up. I figured out a few more things:

 

1-Looking over the whole unit first, seeing which books I really like that are used throughout the unit, and scheduling those for the whole unit helps give me a skeleton.

 

2-For other books, it can be helpful to do three weeks of plans at once, and no more. In other words, I'll do weeks 1-3, reserve those books at the library, look them over, send them back, finalize my plans, and be done. If they're used into a few future weeks, go ahead and schedule them.

 

Then I can hyper-focus on weeks 4-6, and so on. I want to play around with the topic-specific books, such as the ones used for just a week or two, since my library has so much.

 

I need to get a good chunk of it scheduled and set before school starts, because after that, I won't have time. Who does? :confused:

 

Other random ramblings that I really need to talk to someone about -

 

I do not see a need to buy a book that is available online for free, and that gripes me to no end that it's next to impossible to use. Instead of writing in the plans, 'p. 1-24', why would it be so hard to write, 'Ch. 1-4'? I can't for the life of me figure this out, why it would be done this way. Well, sometimes it's done that way, sometimes not. For the same book, it's often different from week to week. Makes me craaaazeeee!

 

For The Story of the Middle Ages by H.E. Marshall, I'd like dd9 to listen online while reading along online. This one is scheduled in an even worse way than the other H.E. Marshall books, because even with seeing the TOC on Amazon for the print version, the way the chapters have been chopped up, you can't tell where it lines up at all. An assignment might have 2 pages of one chapter, all of the next, and 3 pages of the following chapter. It's impossible to figure out how those pages line up with the free version.

 

I have made charts for a few of the other H.E. Marshall books, that are scheduled differently and easier to see where they line up from the TOC on amazon. But what's to stop the next TOG user on a budget from becoming frustrated and confused at this? I did ask if someone can help me make charts, and if they can be made available in one place, where people can find them.

 

There is a poster on the TOG forum, 'momoften', who has made some charts on TOC for a few of the H.E. Marshall books, so that it is easier to use the free online versions. However, I only found her post after ripping my hair out for 48 hours over this very issue, and there still is no chart aligning the TOC w/the TOG assignments (other than the ones I've made - but how to share them?) This is why scheduling is taking me so long - I'm going at a snail's pace, because I hit a snag every few minutes.

 

These should be on the Loom or somewhere easy to find, or better yet, in the actual year plans in the future, they should list the chapters! It doesn't take more characters to do it that way. And if it's part of a chapter, don't say 'stop at the picture' (there aren't always pictures in the online versions), say, 'stop after this line'.

 

Frustrating, to say the least. While this program does have plenty of aspects to it that are exactly what I was looking for, I give it an extremely low rating on user-friendliness. There is a great deal of variance in the clarity of the assignments and overall uniformity in the organization of it. The way the different aspects are written all have a different feel, and some writers are more clear in their expression than others.

 

Have you ever talked to someone who just didn't express themselves clearly, and you had to ask multiple questions to find out what they really meant? That's how parts of it feel to me. Not all, or even most, but enough that it's made me buggy.

 

Back to work.

[siloam]

I was reading your blog on the Government study. I don't have a R or even D level student, but I did read all the notes on the end of year 2 (classic).

 

If you are doing the philosophy study with her, they show how the philosophers influenced the founding fathers, which framed the Decoration of Independence. It is actually the last two weeks of year 2 (classic, but I don't expect they changed that with the re-design) that cover the forming of the constitution. In year 3 they have a brief review when the supreme court is further established.

 

Unless they majorly changed things between the classic and re-design I think you will have to do the year 2 government.

 

Oh and I think you need a :grouphug:

 

Heather

[Melissa in CA]

Frustrating, to say the least. While this program does have plenty of aspects to it that are exactly what I was looking for, I give it an extremely low rating on user-friendliness. There is a great deal of variance in the clarity of the assignments and overall uniformity in the organization of it.

 

:grouphug: I'm sorry you're having such frustrations! I wonder if this is a y2 problem because I am finding y1 extremely user friendly :confused: Of course, I am not trying to use online books either. I purchased the books I could not get from the library and am using the program pretty much as-is. Reading books from a computer screen of any kind would drive me batty though, so such a thing never even crossed my mind. ;) Plus, I know that whatever TOG books I buy I will be able to later sell. It is worth it to me to buy a book, use it, and get 50%-70% back by selling it when I am done.

 

I think 'doing your own thing' with any integrated scheduled curriculum will cause frustrations in one form or other. I used to get frustrated all the time with a previous curriculum I used due to the changes I felt it needed. In making those changes I added way too much work for myself, but felt it made a better curriculum, KWIM? ;) People who use said curriculum as-is always have good things to say about it! But me? Could I have just been happy? No way, I had to tweak and tweak and tweak....:tongue_smilie: Thankfully with TOG I am...so far...not finding the need to tweak anything; it has everything I want and need. I am a very happy camper. :D

 

I pray you find some peace in your scheduling...and soon! :lol: :D

[gardenschooler]

I was reading your blog on the Government study. I don't have a R or even D level student, but I did read all the notes on the end of year 2 (classic).

 

If you are doing the philosophy study with her, they show how the philosophers influenced the founding fathers, which framed the Decoration of Independence. It is actually the last two weeks of year 2 (classic, but I don't expect they changed that with the re-design) that cover the forming of the constitution. In year 3 they have a brief review when the supreme court is further established.

 

Unless they majorly changed things between the classic and re-design I think you will have to do the year 2 government.

 

Oh and I think you need a :grouphug:

 

Heather

 

 

Thank you, Heather!

 

What do you think about having her do Dialectic level for 9th grade? Or part of it? She just doesn't seem ready, to me, but I could be underestimating her. If we did that, then she wouldn't be ready to just pick up with government later, from what you're saying.

 

I did want to do the philosophy and the government, though. Maybe we could read the government together? Do you think it would work if I sort of held her hand in the beginning of the year? Dh is willing to help with some of the government and history, too, so maybe I should see what we can do to make it work.

 

Thank you for pointing this out to me. This helps. :)

 

And thanks for the hug. I'm starting to think there is something wrong with me. I've always had a great deal of trouble understanding things that were spoken in a weird way - maybe some undiagnosed auditory processing disorder. But now, it seems to me that my visual need is higher than ever, and it's hard for me to see anything in my mind that isn't crystal clear.

 

I'm also a control freak, and have a hard time doing anything someone else's way. I can find flaws in a meadow of flowers, honestly. That bothers me about myself, and I need to work on that. Being hyper-critical doesn't make for a happy person.

 

Or maybe I'm getting senile. :lol: Either way, this has been good for me to sharpen up my noodle.

 

Thanks again.

[gardenschooler]

Melissa, I'm sure it's me, not the program. It takes me a long time to get used to anything new. It took me over 3 years of mulling TOG over before I was even ready to talk about the possibility of it!

 

I think 'doing your own thing' with any integrated scheduled curriculum will cause frustrations in one form or other.

 

And I'm seeing that I'm doing way too much of that - more than I really need to. While I'd like to add in a few extra library books and movies and such here and there, I don't really need to approach it the way I have been. I also need to make peace with the fact that if I am changing anything, it's by choice.

 

One thing I'm doing is making a chart for each week, and in the first row, I put in a small picture of the actual book. Then I can break up that week's assignments over Mon-Fri, seeing where each one would have the best fit. I'll give these to dd, letting her know she has the option to move them around as she needs to, as long as she's ready for the discussion, writings, etc. by a certain day.

 

I think starting out, this will help her, but as the year progresses, I'll just give her a chart with one blank for the week's assignments, and let her schedule it out herself. At some point in the future, after we're used to the program, she'll be expected to make her plan from the pages out of TOG. She did have a bit of trouble this past year in scheduling her subjects for a whole week, so this will definitely help us work towards that goal, which is an important skill. This dd didn't get my organizing gene. :D Dh calls it, 'getting Norganized'.

 

I did have a tremendous break-through last night. In looking at some of the books, they're not really all that expensive, and I will be buying some of them.

 

Plus, I know that whatever TOG books I buy I will be able to later sell. It is worth it to me to buy a book, use it, and get 50%-70% back by selling it when I am done

 

Good point! I hadn't thought of that!

 

Part of my problem is that I need to decide if dd is going to be doing Dialectic or Rhetoric level, then I can move forward and not be so wishy-washy about committing to certain books. Only after I really decide on this will I be able to actually print out my week-plans and get her binder or workbook in order, ready to go for the year.

 

I'd like to do a workbook ala karen, but that requires a level of commitment I might not be able to make. I need to be able to add or subtract things at the last minute - who knows when I might find a fabulous map? I could insert dividers with pockets for anything I might add later. Hmmm. I know dd would much prefer a workbook to loose pages in a binder, too - well, I'll get to that point soon. I am making deadlines for myself now, so I don't just wander around.

 

My break-through came when I put some books in my cart, and saw that, for not a whole lot of money, I could just buy them, follow the plan, and voila! No more problems. Not that complicated after all. Some of the books are even under $10, and others are used for quite awhile. My library has the core history book for R level for Unit 1, even, and quite a few of the others. I bought both of the Norton's anthologies.

 

I am making this FAR more complicated than it really is, and I know that. I'm about ready to stop, it's just a process I have to go through with anything new - it's how I 'bond' with my curriculum. I even do this with Apologia science, if you can believe that. It is easier for me to add to a program rather than choose, or switch when I don't really understand the basics. But once I'm done ripping it to shreds and hating it, it's really mine. I have a vision. I'm there. This is just taking longer and much more complicated with TOG because TOG has so much more to it. I knew I was going to have some problems - big ones - so I'm not all that put-off.

 

If I'd ordered Sonlight, I'm sure I would have immediately taken the IG apart and put it back together in a fashion that made sense to me, axed half of the books and replaced them with my own choices, googled into infinity for other things to go with it, and then finally, been pleased. But I would have griped about it the whole time. And in the end, TOG has the elements I was looking for that aren't there in SL (deep literature discussions, the Writing Aids, being able to fold dd9 in), so I made the right choice.

 

People who use said curriculum as-is always have good things to say about it! But me? Could I have just been happy? No way, I had to tweak and tweak and tweak....:tongue_smilie: Thankfully with TOG I am...so far...not finding the need to tweak anything; it has everything I want and need. I am a very happy camper. :D

 

That's the nail on the head, Melissa! How do you always do that?

 

I definitely think TOG will require way less tweaking than anything else I could have gone with. I am very pleased and impressed with all things on the Rhetoric level, just a little scared of them. It's more of a big-picture problem I'm having, but one thing that did really help me is to go read a little bit through Units 2-4. I don't know why that helped me so much, but it did.

 

I'll be okay! Thank you, once again, for talking me through. I seem to understand things so well coming from you, and you often jog something in my brain that helps me figure things out. What is it about you?!? You should be a translator for muddled-thinkers like myself. Well, you already are, aren't you?

 

[siloam]

Thank you, Heather!

 

What do you think about having her do Dialectic level for 9th grade? Or part of it? She just doesn't seem ready, to me, but I could be underestimating her. If we did that, then she wouldn't be ready to just pick up with government later, from what you're saying.

 

I did want to do the philosophy and the government, though. Maybe we could read the government together? Do you think it would work if I sort of held her hand in the beginning of the year? Dh is willing to help with some of the government and history, too, so maybe I should see what we can do to make it work.

 

Thank you for pointing this out to me. This helps. :)

 

And thanks for the hug. I'm starting to think there is something wrong with me. I've always had a great deal of trouble understanding things that were spoken in a weird way - maybe some undiagnosed auditory processing disorder. But now, it seems to me that my visual need is higher than ever, and it's hard for me to see anything in my mind that isn't crystal clear.

 

I'm also a control freak, and have a hard time doing anything someone else's way. I can find flaws in a meadow of flowers, honestly. That bothers me about myself, and I need to work on that. Being hyper-critical doesn't make for a happy person.

 

Or maybe I'm getting senile. :lol: Either way, this has been good for me to sharpen up my noodle.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

I keep hearing how doing R level work is basically AP level. I have to admit that some of the Lit assignments scare me. I mean I love them, and I poor over all the answers, but I could NOT imagine doing them without the answers. The whole assignment about how Gulliver's Travels was a...what would you call it? Blanking. Anyway it symbolizes the political environment of the time. There is an assignment where the child goes in and analyzes what all the symbols are and how they relate without having any hints that I could find. I sat and studied the answer chart for a good 30 mins, and really enjoyed it, but I keep thinking, "There is no way I could have done this in High School!" Though I did only read the government notes in about 5 mins. If I had actually read the government books it might have been more obvious. :D

 

Unless my oldest is just ready for more,I am planning on doing the D level work in history and lit, then going ahead and doing the philosophy and government study for 9th grade. But that is easy to say now, because she is not even doing D level work. I tired out one of the lit sheets a while back and she totally froze. So for now she is a pretty solid UG student. She can read more and at a higher level but the questions and lit sheets are too much for her then. I don't want to move her up till she can manage the academic with the reading.

 

For you I think the question would be would the D level material challenge your dd? If you think it would, then I would keep her in D and like I plan add the philosophy, government and push the writing as you plan. If the D level will be too easy then I would keep her challenged and go up to R, but me being me I wouldn't be able to skip the philosophy and government. :D But I love that stuff. The one except to the above is if your dd is a lot like you in personality. If she will have a hard time getting used to TOG and the new routine, then I would again drop her into D while you all ramp up and then take her to R next year.

 

Oh and add me to the tweaker club. I did take apart the SL (and WP) IG's and totally re-write my own schedules. Nor could I pull off making the nifty notebooks. I love the idea, but I would decide to do something differently after a few months and then have to re-do them. I like the idea of a 36 week tickler file, where I could go ahead a print things out, but still have more flexibility to change.

 

Heather

[gardenschooler]

For you I think the question would be would the D level material challenge your dd?

 

This child is so hard to figure out. She can whiz through anything, and she sees connections I never see. She's very articulate, and grasps the 'big picture' very quickly.

 

However, like many 13 going on 14 yr. olds, she doesn't like to actually do work. :lol: She's as lazy as the day is long. She can read at a very fast rate, and has even been nudged into writing things down, but pulling things out of her in writing is harder than getting them from her orally. Her oral answers are very thoughtful and detailed, but her written ones are just too short. (Glad to see Janice in NJ has the same problem - well, not glad, but you know what I mean! Obviously this is to be expected, you just have to pull them past it.)

 

She needs some very clear questions and expectations there, and I think the Writing Aids will do it. I will not have a hard time using the WA - now that kind of language, those charts, everything in alphabetical order - that I can understand. I also like how you have some options, the samples, and TONS of help.

 

While she can explain something to you very clearly, like how to do an algebra problem or why you'd use a certain case in Latin, even how the government works (thank you, dh), she doesn't see nuances of things, or cause and effect, like you'd expect to start seeing in rhetoric level yet. I just don't think her level of thinking is quite there, or that I've done enough to lead her there. That's one of the reasons I knew we needed TOG. We need to move in that direction, and I'm certainly the blind leading the blind!

 

I think I need to go read more of the discussion outlines, and see where we are. Maybe if I go through it, I'll have a better idea. I do think the D level would challenge her somewhat right now, but there is a difference in the way the R level questions are asked, the inferences they require - that's what I want to move towards. She'll resist, and now may not be the time, but we'll have to at least start heading in that direction. Honestly, she seems to be somewhere in between, which is why I've sort of been looking at doing a slight mix of the two.

 

The one exception to the above is if your dd is a lot like you in personality. If she will have a hard time getting used to TOG and the new routine, then I would again drop her into D while you all ramp up and then take her to R next year.

 

Well, she would absolutely freak if I gave her the TOG sheets to read and wade through now and to plan out herself. She doesn't like excess wordiness, or anything that isn't systematic. So she's like me in preference, I guess. She doesn't like anything that has a lot of pieces, and will not like using TOG for history if I don't get it all sorted neatly. I showed her VP & SL awhile back, and she said she'd hate something like that. In looking at TOG, I convinced her I'd simplify the plan, get it down to doing a few things each day (vs. reading a few pages out of several books each day), and make it not feel so all over the place, but that it was truly worth it. She'll adapt, it's just that I have to adapt first. It's not really all that much of a stretch, anyway, since some books can be thought of as 'spines' and are used throughout.

 

I keep hearing how doing R level work is basically AP level.

 

Though I did only read the government notes in about 5 mins. If I had actually read the government books it might have been more obvious. :D

 

The whole assignment about how Gulliver's Travels was a...what would you call it? Blanking. Anyway it symbolizes the political environment of the time

 

Satire! Is that it? Oh, I am going to need to study hard! :tongue_smilie:

 

Hmmm. Yes, it sure does look like the government studies tie right in. Ok, so we will definitely do that. And yes, it does seem like AP level. Dd#1 (that goes to school) is in AP English & History, so maybe she can help dd#2 a bit. Dd#1's assignments do seem close to the level of what I'm seeing in TOG R level, too. Maybe not even quite as much! But then again, I don't see everything they do in school. But yes, I'd have to agree that TOG R level is at least AP level. Good! I got my money's worth! :D

 

THe R level literature does look intense - but that's what I want! We may not be able to accomplish my ambitious plans for it, but we'll do something, even if I have to spoon-feed her for a semester or two. Even if we use books on tape, or sit and read them outloud together. We're in high school now, and I'm determined to get some great books into that girl if it's the last thing I do. :D

 

I wanted something challenging, something that would be more than I could put together myself. The literature was the main attraction for me. The D level literature looks a little on the easy side for her, the R level a little heavy. We'll lean towards heavy, and we'll just keep trying.

 

Oh and add me to the tweaker club. I did take apart the SL (and WP) IG's and totally re-write my own schedules.

 

:lol: Yay! The Tweaker Club. Otherwise known as the 'perfectionist, can't leave well enough alone' club. Glad to know I'm not alone! :D

 

I feel so much better now! Thank you, Heather, for talking through this with me. I feel like I'm a lot closer to a plan now, and it sure helps to know where we're going.

 

[Tarheel Heather]

If anyone is interested I posted on another thread a group for us!

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38426