Jean in Newcastle Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 He is using Galore Park's Latin Prep 2. He started studying Latin in 3rd grade with Prima Latina and then did LC 1 and 2 before switching to Latin Prep 1. He has consistently done "ok" on Latin - he gets A's on his translations from Latin to English but bombs translations from English to Latin. Lately I decided to slow everything down and concentrate on the details with him since the details are what trip him up. I put everything on Quizlet (in chunks). He's worked for 2 weeks in chapter 2 on memorizing forms, vocabulary etc. I then had him work on the actual translations. He bombed. He's finishing up 9th grade. I want him to meet language requirements for college. When asked if he wants to switch to another language, he says he wants to stay with Latin. I don't think he really knows how bad he's doing though even though he sees and we work on corrections. Here are my choices - a. stay with Latin. Find him a tutor or take this even more slowly so that we can get this. b. switch him to Spanish. I think he would find it fairly easy after Latin but I don't really know. c. switch him to Japanese. I speak Japanese fluently and am truly bi-lingual in it. We studied Japanese when he was in elementary but did not keep up with it. I really would appreciate all your thoughts and advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diviya Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 When you say he bombs the English to Latin translations, is everything wrong? So, vocabulary choices, declension endings, tense endings, everything, or is there one area that is particularly bad? Like, maybe the vocabulary is mostly right, but the endings are all wrong. If you have him do one sentence at a time, does the same thing happen? Or, take one sentence at a time and have him parse it first before translating it - does that make a difference? In my non expert opinion, I think you'd need to figure out what exactly is holding him back here, or there is no reason to suppose that Spanish would be any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I would so go with the Japanese!!! How totally awesome for him to have a fluent, 24/7 private tutor!!!! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I would move to Japanese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I would so go with the Japanese!!! How totally awesome for him to have a fluent' date=' 24/7 private tutor!!!! :)[/quote'] :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 When you say he bombs the English to Latin translations, is everything wrong? So, vocabulary choices, declension endings, tense endings, everything, or is there one area that is particularly bad? Like, maybe the vocabulary is mostly right, but the endings are all wrong. If you have him do one sentence at a time, does the same thing happen? Or, take one sentence at a time and have him parse it first before translating it - does that make a difference? In my non expert opinion, I think you'd need to figure out what exactly is holding him back here, or there is no reason to suppose that Spanish would be any better. vocabulary is mostly right (though he does confuse a couple of words). It is mostly endings. Yes - I think it would help to have him parse it first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 I would so go with the Japanese!!! How totally awesome for him to have a fluent' date=' 24/7 private tutor!!!! :)[/quote'] I would move to Japanese. I'll have to talk to ds. I said that I would switch him but really at his age he needs to agree on whatever we do. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diviya Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I think if you did that for a couple of weeks, that would help him to make the connections between the charts and the application. I wouldn't worry about occasional incorrect vocabulary selection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwen in VA Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 As the mom who just pulled the plug on her dd's Latin (after Latin 3!!!), I vote strongly for Japanese. It's interesting, it's unique, and you could really help him with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumto2 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 First, I think you should start the Japanese. Really good opportunity for your son. He shouldn't miss out. I keep hoping a fellow home ed mom here who is speaks Japanese will start lessons! That way you have the transcript taken care of. Second, if your son really wants to keep going with Latin I think you should let him. Stopping is just the wrong message IMO if he wants to continue. Could you try Henle and use a study guide from Memoria Press? We switched to Mother of Divine Grace school study guides because they do all of year 1 and 2. I read on a thread that the Henle books are someplace on line for free. They didn't say where. So you can try it. The guides schedule a small amount per day with a weekly quiz. Very similar to LatinaChristina. I know this will move really slow. But at the end you should be able to give 2 years for one language and a year for the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDad Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 First, I think you should start the Japanese. Really good opportunity for your son. He shouldn't miss out. I keep hoping a fellow home ed mom here who is speaks Japanese will start lessons! That way you have the transcript taken care of. Second, if your son really wants to keep going with Latin I think you should let him. Stopping is just the wrong message IMO if he wants to continue. :iagree: If he's OK with it, I would say to go with the Japanese as your main foreign language, but continue light Latin on the side or as you have time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elise Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 How about both? I know that's a big chunk of time in a busy high school schedule, and whether or not it would work would depend on his level of interest, of course...but it might be a shame to pull the plug on Latin if he's really enjoying it. We reached a level of frustration at exactly the same point (Latin Prep 2), and we decided to switch and go with Lukeion/Wheelocks (just finished Latin II last week.) The online, expertly-organized format was just what we needed. If we hadn't switched over at that point, I think we would have probably quit, but as it is, we now plan to continue on through AP level.:001_smile: It has been a *fabulous* experience. Can't say enough good things about it! My girls *begged* to do Japanese in addition, so after trying for a year on our own, we hired a tutor this year. It has been a success as well, but it almost seems like Latin and Japanese use completely different sides of the brain or something! My oldest (who was the most gung-ho to begin with) now wishes she could quit and just do Latin--she finds it more logical and straightforward. Dd13 on the other hand adores Japanese and is progressing at lightning speed (much to her sister's annoyance!). Just thought I would throw that out there for what it's worth. The child that I would have guessed would be in love with Japanese has a new-found love of Latin, and the one who got a perfect paper on the NLE is in love with Japanese.:confused: I guess we'll continue on with both for as long as we can manage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readwithem Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I would so go with the Japanese!!! How totally awesome for him to have a fluent' date=' 24/7 private tutor!!!! :)[/quote'] :iagree: My dd has a friend who chose her college based on being able to major in Japanese. I would go for it!:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinaPagnato Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Difficulty with Latin does not equal difficulty with Spanish. In Spanish there are fewer ending changes, very recognizable cognates, and everything is phonetic, which makes it so much easier to grasp vocab. If he's opposed to Japanese, and/or you don't want to be his primary teacher of foreign language, then Spanish is a very natural, and (IMO) seamless transition from Latin. My kids have done beautifully with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 We sat down and talked this morning. He's going to think some about it and get back to me. His immediate request was "Can I learn Esperanto?" His reason? "Jules Verne was quite fluent in it." We looked up acceptable languages at our state college. Esperanto wasn't on there.;) For the immediate future - starting Monday - we are going to go back to the beginning of book 2 (he just finished chapter 2). We are going to go through chapter 1 together so that I can really work with him. Half of it he did perfectly so we'll just focus on the other half that he bombed on. Anyone know of a good criminal defense lawyer? I may need one lined up if I"m going to work with him this closely. . . :tongue_smilie: :D We still have a month and a half of this year's school and I want to get down the first couple of chapters really well. So that if he does change, it isn't from a position of failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 but bombs translations from English to Latin. Lately I decided to slow everything down and concentrate on the details with him since the details are what trip him up. I put everything on Quizlet (in chunks). He's worked for 2 weeks in chapter 2 on memorizing forms, vocabulary etc. vocabulary is mostly right (though he does confuse a couple of words). It is mostly endings. Half of it he did perfectly so we'll just focus on the other half that he bombed on. I'm not familiar with the program you are using, but I do find that for Latin in general, it's really important to keep up with memorizing those grammar forms. There are so many! My kids work on them 3-4 days a week, constantly cycling through the flashcards. And memorizing the grammar rules, too, really helps with English to Latin translation. And because there is so much to memorize, it doesn't work for my kids to memorize something in a short period of time and then go on to something new - they have to constantly review the stuff they memorized months and years ago. hth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Jean is it possible that he is not failing as much as the program he is using is failing him? I was just over at: http://www.lukeion.org/latin.html If you scroll down the page they have an answer to "Why do we use Wheelock's?" We use Wheelock's Latin, 6th ed. revised (0060784237) for our Latin 1 and Latin 2 courses because, simply put, it is the best available textbook for an instructor lead course. While there are a variety of Latin approaches out there, none of them sufficiently explain the grammar and syntax of the Latin language while offering plenty of translation practice using real Latin. Anyone who has endured a 'no grammar needed' approach knows that translating advanced Latin literature is impossible without a fairly complete explanation of the language mechanics. I speak from experience. As an undergraduate in collage, my Classics professor used a reading emersion approach, though her colleagues warned her against it. She was pleased to see that her students enjoyed the course while I, overly confident in my ability to handle the language, went on to start my master's program in Latin. I quickly discovered that while my graduate school colleagues had a firm grasp of grammar and syntax, I had precious little. My 'reading immersion' introduction to Latin was flabby and boneless. In the middle of an already hectic graduate school schedule, I started over with Wheelock. What you are describing sounds a bit like what she describes. I also have reservations on two fronts about Japanese: First, I would consider mother son relations before launching into something in which I am the key source of knowledge. This would work with my oldest although on occasion I might have to spend time defending a concept from teen boy who argues syndrome. With my youngest, who is most like me, I'd hesitate because of relationship dynamics. This is an area you need to consider since I don't know you or your son or how you get along. Second, I have always heard that Japanese is a difficult language. If your son is struggling with Latin which is not difficult and I think pretty regular in how it works, I'm not sure moving to a much harder language is the way to go. Again, you know a lot more about Japanese than I do so maybe I misunderstand this perceived difficulty or maybe has to do with something other than the areas he is struggling with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 I was planning on finishing Latin Prep 2 and then going into Wheelock. I have Wheelock downstairs. I should pull it out and look at it. I don't think that Galore Park is a reading immersion approach though. Re. Japanese. It's difficulty is partly that the grammar is reversed from English but otherwise I don't think that grammatically it is too difficult. What is difficult is learning to read and write! I talked to dh a bit last night about all of this. He agrees that we should keep working this year to bring things to some sort of a conclusion. As to what ds wants, he hasn't told me yet! In the past, he's always said that he really wanted to continue with Latin. One of my goals this weekend is to go back and figure out my weaknesses as a teacher and address those. We do go over the grammar and drills together (the two weeks on Quizlet that I mentioned were a more intense drill). But I need to figure out how to translate his good scores/performance on drills and translate that into good translation. I think it is probably a matter of approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I really enjoy my Latin Alive DVDs. I switched from LfC to them a month or two ago. I think they would work well with your son. He could work quickly through Latin Alive 1 and then a bit slower through 2 and then be read to tackle Wheelock, or maybe even be ready for Wheelock after 1. The instruction is incremental and detailed and analytical and works on parsing before translation. Japanese would be neat, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in Mint Hill Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 He's finishing up 9th grade. I want him to meet language requirements for college. When asked if he wants to switch to another language, he says he wants to stay with Latin. I don't think he really knows how bad he's doing though even though he sees and we work on corrections. Here are my choices - a. stay with Latin. Find him a tutor or take this even more slowly so that we can get this. I really would appreciate all your thoughts and advice. Hello Jean, I would definitely recommend that you let him continue the Latin and take Latin I and II in highschool. If he has done all this work then he needs to begin to "get" the syntax so that he can benefit from this wonderful subject! Of course, I'm a Latin teacher (over 15 years) so I'm prejudiced. Sounds like understanding how to form Latin sentences is the next step he needs. (I do this in my classes by helping the student learn how to gradually build thoughts in Latin, from simple to more complex.) My workbook is Studium Latinae which can be found at lulu.com ... If you need an online Latin I course I have a couple of levels going this summer. Also, there are some great free resources linked at my website. Pax, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LND1218 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Personally, I would stay with Latin and add Japanese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 Today I sat down with him and specifically tutored him. He did the same assignments with with me writing them down one by one and having him do them. We didn't do as many sentences as are in a usual assignment, but the ones we did, he parsed and discussed while translating. He did great.:001_smile: I still don't know what we'll do for next year but for the remainder of this year, I'm feeling more optimistic that we can do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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