Update: Dog getting aggressive

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

Here is an update to this thread http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=374113

 

Yesterday the dog went to the Vet. She was in perfect health so this is not a reason for her behavior. After discussing the aggressive behavior she said it is a terrier mix and they are territorial. Says she is just super territorial. She attributed the snapping at my ds as a "bad day" and unless it becomes a regular thing not to worry :confused:

As for her attitude toward other children, she said even some people do not like kids, this dog is one that doesn't like them. She will tolerate the ones that live in the house but no others. Her solution, just lock her up when kids are around the neighborhood :confused: I even told her we live 2 doors down from a daycare and she said we know what times they drop/pick the kids so lock her up during those times.

 

Needless to say I was not real impressed with the vet. She watched our dog while we talked and the dog was acting perfect. Sitting and looking out the window. The vet even commented on how well she was even though people were walking around outside. Well of course my dog was well behaved, she was not in her territory and felt no need to defend it.

 

So this was a real waste of time with the exception of knowing she is healthy and her health is not contributing to her aggression. After talking with our 15yr old and his thoughts (technically it is his dog). We are giving the dog 2 more weeks (a club house is going up in our yard then and we know lots of kids will be over). During the next two weeks we will take her for long walks in the park, sit with her outside while the preschool kids come and go and try to instill proper behavior while correcting the wrong. Have her meet all the neighborhood kids while we have her controlled and get her use to them. If she shows no sign of improvement we will put her to sleep.

[kroe1]

Sorry, I didn't read the other thread. But our dog has always been aggressive so we have BTDT. Here are some things that we have learned.

 

1. We failed to socialize her properly as a puppy. It needs to be done on a regular basis, and done properly. It was not the way I thought.

 

2. A dog becomes aggressive because he feels there is no leader of the pack doing the job. That would be you. The dog must learn you are leader, you always are the defender, and he is not the defender of the pack. Never.

 

3. Get a trainer or very good dog book to help. It is a very slow process which first involved making my dog learn to stand behind me whenever anyone comes around. He is not allowed to be in the front. The front line is reserved for defenders of the pack. When someone comes around. I face forward, not looking at the dog, and put my leg out to push her backwards behind me. I tell her, "sit" and "stay". Don't look at her at all during this process. In pack behavior, the dogs all look at the leader. If you look at your dog, she will think she's the leader and has to defend her pack.

 

HTH. There are a ton of steps in between and afterwards. But this is how we got started. We have gone from the terror dog that was growling and pulling violently on her leash whenever we passed anyone to a dog who stops and sits calmly behind me when she sees someone coming past. She still has problems with some other dogs, but we keep hoping and training.

 

:)

[Teachin'Mine]

The $30 or $40 for the thundershirt, or the other one I had mentioned, might be money well spent. It's a simple enough thing to at least try. JMO. :)

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

 

3. Get a trainer or very good dog book to help. It is a very slow process which first involved making my dog learn to stand behind me whenever anyone comes around. He is not allowed to be in the front. The front line is reserved for defenders of the pack. When someone comes around. I face forward, not looking at the dog, and put my leg out to push her backwards behind me. I tell her, "sit" and "stay". Don't look at her at all during this process. In pack behavior, the dogs all look at the leader. If you look at your dog, she will think she's the leader and has to defend her pack.

 

 

:)

This was established early on. She is made to go to her room when someone comes to the door. She knows this. And then we get her and introduce her to the visitor, if they are in the house. She just does not get the .."this person is okay" info. She knows who the leaders are, we established this right off. Even the vet asked about this and agrees we established ourselves as the top of the pecking order. So this is not where the problem lies....it would be good if it did, then we would have something to work with.

[Mama Geek]

I may get flamed for this, but have you considered a shock collar with a remote? I have used one on 2 dogs and it really makes a big difference. If you are to the point of putting it to sleep are you willing to try this first?

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

I may get flamed for this, but have you considered a shock collar with a remote? I have used one on 2 dogs and it really makes a big difference. If you are to the point of putting it to sleep are you willing to try this first?

We used a shock collar for a while because she was an excessive barker. It did not really work. She would growl instead of bark. As for trying one now, I just don't think it will work on the aggression. It is an instant reaction and the potential for injury is great, by the time we hit the remote she would have already snapped at the person.

[astrid]

Here is an update to this thread http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=374113

 

Yesterday the dog went to the Vet. She was in perfect health so this is not a reason for her behavior. After discussing the aggressive behavior she said it is a terrier mix and they are territorial. Says she is just super territorial. She attributed the snapping at my ds as a "bad day" and unless it becomes a regular thing not to worry :confused:

As for her attitude toward other children, she said even some people do not like kids, this dog is one that doesn't like them. She will tolerate the ones that live in the house but no others. Her solution, just lock her up when kids are around the neighborhood :confused: I even told her we live 2 doors down from a daycare and she said we know what times they drop/pick the kids so lock her up during those times.

 

Needless to say I was not real impressed with the vet. She watched our dog while we talked and the dog was acting perfect. Sitting and looking out the window. The vet even commented on how well she was even though people were walking around outside. Well of course my dog was well behaved, she was not in her territory and felt no need to defend it.

 

So this was a real waste of time with the exception of knowing she is healthy and her health is not contributing to her aggression. After talking with our 15yr old and his thoughts (technically it is his dog). We are giving the dog 2 more weeks (a club house is going up in our yard then and we know lots of kids will be over). During the next two weeks we will take her for long walks in the park, sit with her outside while the preschool kids come and go and try to instill proper behavior while correcting the wrong. Have her meet all the neighborhood kids while we have her controlled and get her use to them. If she shows no sign of improvement we will put her to sleep.

 

Just by going on what you've described here, I actually agree with your vet to some extent. Lots of dogs are just not cut out to handle the situations in which they through no fault of their own find themselves living. Lots of breeds have too high a prey drive to live with kids. Terriers are tops on that list.

 

I"m sorry you're going through this. I know it's not easy.

 

astrid

[1Togo]

Be prepared to go through with putting your dog to sleep because two weeks and what you have outlined will not make a significant change. Our dog has been part of our family for ten years. We did not want to put her down nor did we want to rehome her since she is our responsibility, so we found a good trainer, who made specific suggestions for each behavior. The basic course was six weeks, but within the first week, we had a changed dog. We have continued to follow through with the suggestions and training. We have all learned and grown from the experience.

Edited May 10, 2012 by 1Togo

[justLisa]

Ok could you please at least put an add somewhere and try to have him re homed? You are not going to have a changed pup in 2 weeks. Put an add in the paper and craig's list. "Healthy dog has two weeks to live," and I'm sure you will find some one who is willing to take him and give the necessary training.

 

I couldn't have a dog right now because of the commitment. However, I really think dog owners should do everything they possibly can for proper training once they HAVE the dog. Certain breeds have certain attributes, and if you research a breed thoroughly you know what you COULD be dealing with. However, it's a different ball game IMO once you get the dog. When you have a baby you don't get to pick the personality. At least with a dog you can choose a breed that has a better chance of working with children. Sure kids trump pets every single time. But just putting an animal down that has a good chance is just so sad to me. I hope you at least do everything you can to re home.

[laundrycrisis]

If this dog has never been through formal obedience training, IMO you owe her at least that chance before you put her down. My rat terrier was always fine with me, but when DH joined the household, he scared her (not intentionally) and she was aggressive with him. At seven years old, we had her go through obedience training with a professional. Two weeks of residence bootcamp and several hours per day of work with the trainer, followed by about three more months of weekly group classes with us and the trainer, and strict rules to follow at home for each week as the home part of the course. (For example, her first week out of boot camp, she was either on a short lead under command (heel, autosit) or crated.) The point of all this was establishing her place and opening a line of communication with her. It completely changed her personality. I mean, like a different dog entirely. The problems were entirely, completely gone.

[SonshineLearner]

A vet isn't the one to ask... A dog trainer who is a serious trainer... (or perhaps a behavioralist is) I would NEVER have that dog out with others... it's asking for trouble. Seriously, I would at least spend the $$$ to take it to a trainer.... and get their opinion.... and also commit to serious training. Even with that, a dog doesn't belong in the circle of a group of children. Children hit other children, and such, and dogs defend their people. (Which isn't good in that situation)

[kroe1]

This was established early on. She is made to go to her room when someone comes to the door. She knows this. And then we get her and introduce her to the visitor, if they are in the house. She just does not get the .."this person is okay" info. She knows who the leaders are, we established this right off. Even the vet asked about this and agrees we established ourselves as the top of the pecking order. So this is not where the problem lies....it would be good if it did, then we would have something to work with.

 

Sorry to disagree, but she could not possibly know who the leaders are because she is acting aggressive. While she may think of you as a leader in some situations, she is certainly not when someone comes to the home. Try what I said with another person holding her in place with you being the front man and opening the door, etc. Make sure your dog can still see, but is held behind everyone else. After pleasantries, have the person holding your dog back, scoot her toward the visitor. When she gets close, do not allow her to sniff first. Instead, present her backside to the visitor while still keeping her on the floor. In pack behavior, the leader gets to sniff, not the other dogs. Again, you are establishing her lower position within the pack. Also, make sure you are never holding her up in these situations. When she is being held in front of someone, then she is master of that person.

 

I hope I didn't assume correctly that this pooch is going to be put to sleep over this. It's such an easy behavior correction to make. It just takes awhile, usually months and months of unyielding mastery. Have you hired a professional trainer? Do you know someone who can take the dog for you? I guess I should read the original post before butting in.

 

:grouphug:

[justLisa]

 

I hope I didn't assume correctly that this pooch is going to be put to sleep over this. It's such an easy behavior correction to make. It just takes awhile, usually months and months of unyielding mastery. Have you hired a professional trainer? Do you know someone who can take the dog for you? I guess I should read the original post before butting in.

 

:grouphug:

 

Here is an update to this thread http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=374113

 

We are giving the dog 2 more weeks (a club house is going up in our yard then and we know lots of kids will be over). During the next two weeks we will take her for long walks in the park, sit with her outside while the preschool kids come and go and try to instill proper behavior while correcting the wrong. Have her meet all the neighborhood kids while we have her controlled and get her use to them. If she shows no sign of improvement we will put her to sleep.

 

:(

[ktgrok]

Get the book "Click to Calm". It has a plan for treating this kind of situation. Basically the trainer took a dog that snarled and viciously attacked anytime it saw a man and got it to the point of salivating in anticipation of a treat instead, with no more interest in attacking.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

I am realistic. I do not expect her to be changed in a few weeks. I do expect to see signs of it working though, even if it is a small sign.

 

I put a call into a trainer the vet several people have recommended and am waiting for a call back. She has had some basic training. Last year my ds put her in a class and she did great...but she was not near her territory.

[kroe1]

Finally read the original post and learned the dog is a biter. Ugh, you have a much worse problem than I imagined. Do you have Cesar Millan's phone number?

:grouphug:

[Catwoman]

Her solution, just lock her up when kids are around the neighborhood :confused: I even told her we live 2 doors down from a daycare and she said we know what times they drop/pick the kids so lock her up during those times.

 

Why would she be running loose in the neighborhood at any time? :confused: If you don't have a fenced yard and she can't be trusted to stay within the boundaries of your property, she shouldn't be outside without a leash.

 

Also, why would you have her put to sleep? She might be the perfect dog for someone with no children who won't let her roam the yard or the neighborhood when she's not on a leash.

 

Edited to add: I just realized that my post sounded awfully harsh, and I didn't mean to come across that way. I realize that you're trying your very best to make things work out so you can keep your dog. Sorry if I upset you in any way! :grouphug:

Edited May 11, 2012 by Catwoman

[ktgrok]

Sorry to disagree, but she could not possibly know who the leaders are because she is acting aggressive.

:grouphug:

 

Wow. Um...as a dog trainer, and a veterinary technician, and a member of the society of veterinary behavior technicians, and someone that has spent countless hours in continuing ed on agression this is not true. At all.

[justLisa]

Gah! I didn't know the previous post was about the dog biting :(

 

I'm sorry....I would have to agree with you more. That's rough

[CroppinIt]

Last year my ds put her in a class and she did great...but she was not near her territory.

 

This is a big key: in her territory. Dogs are pack animals, so you need to think like a pack leader, especially in the dog's natural territory. If you don't rule the place, she will. Period. Some dogs are not aggressive at all except on "their turf." You have to make it clear that it's YOUR turf, not hers.

 

When she does something aggressive, pull down on her collar until she is forced to lie down. (It won't hurt her -- the body will naturally follow where the head goes. Make the head go down, and the body will too.) Make her lie on her back in a submissive position and hold her firmly but gently until she stops fighting you so she understands that you are alpha dog. Do this every time she's aggressive -- you have to be consistant.

[ktgrok]

This is a big key: in her territory. Dogs are pack animals, so you need to think like a pack leader, especially in the dog's natural territory. If you don't rule the place, she will. Period. Some dogs are not aggressive at all except on "their turf." You have to make it clear that it's YOUR turf, not hers.

 

When she does something aggressive, pull down on her collar until she is forced to lie down. (It won't hurt her -- the body will naturally follow where the head goes. Make the head go down, and the body will too.) Make her lie on her back in a submissive position and hold her firmly but gently until she stops fighting you so she understands that you are alpha dog. Do this every time she's aggressive -- you have to be consistant.

 

Ok, I hate to be rude, but this is the worst advice you can possibly give to someone with a dog that is acting agressive. If the OP follows this advice she could be bitten badly. Seriously, don't pick a fight with an animal that has the ability to kill you. Not to mention that the "hold them on their back to establish dominance" thing is totally false. It was based on some observation of captive wolves, that was taken out of context. It turns out on futher observation that the "alpha" wolves never ever forced a "submissive" wolf on their back. Ever. That instead a wolf that was feeling submissive would voluntarily roll over. Totally different thing.

[Ruby Rose]

Ok, I hate to be rude, but this is the worst advice you can possibly give to someone with a dog that is acting agressive. If the OP follows this advice she could be bitten badly. Seriously, don't pick a fight with an animal that has the ability to kill you. Not to mention that the "hold them on their back to establish dominance" thing is totally false. It was based on some observation of captive wolves, that was taken out of context. It turns out on futher observation that the "alpha" wolves never ever forced a "submissive" wolf on their back. Ever. That instead a wolf that was feeling submissive would voluntarily roll over. Totally different thing.

 

 

Katie - oh wise one. Teach us the way of dog whispering. :lol: we have a 9 week old Maltese that I'm desperately trying not to ruin. :tongue_smilie:

[Jpoy85]

Finally read the original post and learned the dog is a biter. Ugh, you have a much worse problem than I imagined. Do you have Cesar Millan's phone number?

:grouphug:

 

you do realize hes NOT a real dog trainer with even a license or anything? Hes doing based on experience. Personally, id want someone with a license.

 

I would place an Ad for a new home before putting the dog to sleep. How long have you had this dog and how long has their been going on? have you tried any corrective behavior before??

[ktgrok]

Katie - oh wise one. Teach us the way of dog whispering. :lol: we have a 9 week old Maltese that I'm desperately trying not to ruin. :tongue_smilie:

 

Read anything by Patricia McConnell, or Ian Dunbar, to start with :)