CLE? The good , the bad, the ugly?

[6wishes]

I am looking at switching out of MM (or trying with it again at a later time, or using for supplement), and possibly switching to CLE or Abeka. My dd is about 2 years behind in math-will be starting her at a first grade level. Which of these programs would be better? She does the Language Arts Abeka, and is used to their worksheets, so I don't think the visual piece will be an issue..I'm wanting to know more about content...which one has more review, solidifies marterial before moving on etc...thanks!

[iamrachelle]

We are CLE users here. It is thorough and gentle and I haven't found any gaps in the curriculum. I believe they have a placement test available as well. My kids love the "light units" and feel like they've accomplished something when they finish one and move on to the next one...

[Mallorie]

My 3 all use CLE, and we are happy with the style and review in it. I agree that my kids really enjoy finishing a light unit and moving on, that's motivating to them. I love the flashcard system for the younger grades, and the way they've introduced concepts in the 1st and 2nd grades.

 

I have a few friends using Abeka math, who are also very happy with that program. I don't think you could go wrong with either, so I would just check out the samples and see which looks more appealing.

[dtsmamtj]

Abeka moves on pretty quickly compared to other math programs. I have heard good things about CLE math.

[roanna]

We've only been using CLE for about 2 quarters for first grade. Some sections my son just gets it and we move quickly but on the parts he doesn't get easily I might spend another day doing flash card work that they provide. The speed drills also help to reinforce facts.

 

It is not boring , every 3 problems it is a new type of activity to reinforce what is being learned. The story problems they use are from facts they already have down so the focus is more on getting the hang of story problems.

 

You can buy just one light unit and try it out, it's only $3. That would get three weeks worth. Very economical.

[Mrs.Shawn]

OK, I replied on another thread and am just seeing this thread. Just to add, the CLE Lightunits also schedules quizzes and tests. There is frequent review, and flashcards and speed drills are scheduled. Also if you buy the teacher manual in the lower grade levels, there are more pointers in there I believe as opposed to just answers. I hope this helps. In the other thread I just mentioned what sold me specifically on ordering CLE Math.

[6wishes]

I can't believe I'm just finding out about this curriculum. From all the posts here and reviews on other websites, the only negatives are that some kids don't like all the problems (which it also seems aren't more then Abeka, just spread out), and it's not super colorful. But, the content seems very solid. I think I have finally found the math that will work. It's also encouraging to see/hear from many people who also have said they had tried and failed with a lot of other programs...I am beginning to feel cautiously hopeful :), thanks for your input!

[wapiti]

I am looking at switching out of MM (or trying with it again at a later time, or using for supplement), and possibly switching to CLE or Abeka. My dd is about 2 years behind in math-will be starting her at a first grade level. Which of these programs would be better? She does the Language Arts Abeka, and is used to their worksheets, so I don't think the visual piece will be an issue..I'm wanting to know more about content...which one has more review, solidifies marterial before moving on etc...thanks!

 

I thought this sounded familiar, so I found the other thread:

 

She has her addition and subtraction facts memorized (but not in the instant kind of way), she didn't seem to be getting place value, but she's been complaining about it even when we haven't done place value, and she can hardly do any of it independently. There are a lot of problems on the page, and I'm only currently making her do 1 page/day. I did bring the math u see blocks back out today to try and create more of a visual.

 

What did she use before MM, when she was in first and second grade? Is she about to start first grade math for the fourth time? From what you describe, a third grader unable to grasp the place value presented in first grade math, I would very strongly consider whether there are issues going on, LDs or vision. Having more info on such issues would be crucial for choosing your next curriculum (and at any rate, maybe you need to use manipulatives or games exclusively instead of a workbook for now). I mentioned this in the other thread, but I just wanted to add emphasis.

 

If she does know addition and subtraction facts, then I would not start at square one with the new program when she is already so many years behind. I'd hope she'd be able to start a little further into a new program than the very beginning of first grade (doesn't CLE have a placement test??). Keep moving forward on concepts while practicing math facts on the side (think card games and manipulatives!).

 

I hope the spiral of CLE is what you need - buying just one book to try is a good idea.

[SunnyDays]

We like CLE here, and it seems to work for many different types of learners!! One aspect I appreciate is that it has drill built in, every day, on the math facts, as well as review of what's been learned recently, but not so much of either one that you want to poke your eyes out. :) It seems to be a good balance.

 

Some people dislike CLE because it's not the conceptual, Asian style math. While it doesn't delve as deeply into the concepts and the "why" as something like Singapore, it does have some good explanation. And if you find yourself needing more of that (I do think it's important for kids to know why and understand underlying concepts, some get it easier than others), you can always add in CWP, Zaccaro, LOF, anything with a different take and deep application.

 

Good luck, and definitely do the placement test!!

[6wishes]

I know I seem repetetive on my posts :). I was starting out thinking of switching to Abeka, but then started reading all these posts on CLE. However, as far as the LD situation, I'm a little stumped on that. I have had her vision checked (although not by a developmental optometrist, I have emailed a Dr. here about doing it-our insurance doesn't carry this provider, so I know there will be some cost involved). I have read some on dyslexia, but she doesn't do a lot of what's listed. Also, she has made quite a bit of progress this year in reading, and we were sitting at square 1 last fall. Would there still be progress if it was an LD, and if it was vision, I would think the reading would still be a major issue?? I have even thought of taking her to one of the "learning centers" here, but I know they don't diagnose, and from people I've talked to, it's expensive and when they aren't working with the child anymore, they lose a lot of what they were doing while there....so was thinking of trying the curriculum switch one last time before I moved into anything else (and possibly the vision piece too).

[hsmamainva]

I absolutely love CLE!!!

 

My youngest has autism and we pulled her out of public school at the end of last year. She should've been a rising 4th grader, but her academic level was found to be late Kindergarten to beginning 1st grade.

 

We had her fully evaluated and they found no cognitive disabilities....she just hadn't been taught! (Long story...)

 

She prefers black and white texts and workbooks that she can write in.

 

I purchased the entire program and she loves to sit down with me and do her schoolwork. We're using the flash cards and she reviews all of them, every day, and her ability to memorize her math facts is just stunning to watch.

 

She's able to complete one light unit every two weeks and we're hoping to have her up to grade level within another year or two (we homeschool year round).

 

I think beginning your child at the first grade level is perfect for making sure that all the basics are covered. It starts out with addition for the first light unit, but by the second light unit, subtraction is added in as well -- I LOVE this! I've never seen another math curriculum that works quite that way.

 

If you have different programs for the other subjects and they're working, then stick with those. I needed something 'out of a box' that would work with my daughter and wanted it to be consistent in appearance and use for all subjects (she needs that familiarity).

 

It's been terrific!

[6wishes]

We started out with MUS and switched to MM. I started her in first grade in MM because there was stuff we hadn't covered yet, and since she didn't have her facts down anyways, I wanted to review. In MUS, we stopped when we got to subtraction because she didn't have the addition facts, wasn't getting it, and I thought MM would also provide a little bit more spiral, plus some additional ways of teaching the same concepts. Her birthday is May, so technically, I really look at her as being a year behind because I would wait to send her. However, I didn't think MM would bomb the way it has and because she frustrates so early in the lesson, I don't feel like she's learning much at all, and that this past 6 months or so has been a waste. So, starting her out in the first grade again would be with the third curriculum, therefore the third time. However, there is stuff in there we hadn't covered yet, so this is definitely where I would want to start, and I would plan on moving quickly through if it was a review section she already knew. Also, I have already ordered a book off Amazon called "Two plus Two Does not Equal Five" that I receive today, and we are going to quit everything else, work on addition/subtraction and using manipulatives to regroup. I'm just getting ready to order all my curriculum, and was wanting to figure this out now even though we won't start it quite yet. I am going to put MM on the shelf.

[diaperjoys]

I love CLE, but it isn't what I would recommend for a child struggling with place value - or for a child needing remedial instruction of any kind. We used it for both our oldest boys, and I love it. But we're having to switch out of it. IOWA math scores came back really terrible this year, my boys just aren't understanding the concepts behind the math. My oldest tested really high on the CoGAT, which shows me he is very capable, but seriously underacheiving in math.

 

We're spending the rest of this year and the summer going through Singapore math at an accelerated pace, beginning with 1A, using lots of manipulatives. Place value has historically been a struggle for my oldest, and I can see lights going on. We began with Primary Mathematics as our singapore source, and we're continuing with Math In Focus (another Singapore resource) because somehow the layout is easier for me to teach. Lots of hands on, lots of mental math, lots of manipulatives & direct one-on-one teaching. I feel like we're finally making progress! I anticipate MIF as our spine for next year, with Horizons supplying the needed spiral review.

 

Additionally, we're having our oldest do neuro-psych testing, and that should give us more information about the math struggles. Why is it, that when we take a three weeks break we lose half a grade level? Of course, some review is expected after a break. But losing half a year, or more? Something isn't right. Our second son (much more normal developmentally) scored even worse on the math section of his IOWA. So we're switching all the kids to a very conceptual approach to math.

 

So, bottom line...I love the layout of CLE, but I don't recommend it for remedial situations.

[sixpence1978]

Have you done the placement tests for CLE? Even though there are some things in the 1st grade program that you haven't covered, that doesn't necessarily mean that you need to go all the way back there. CLE is very, very gentle in my opinion. If there are just a few areas she hasn't covered, you'll have more than enough time and room to go over them in CLE 200. Definitely give the placement test.

 

We like CLE here after switching from Saxon. I do bring out manipulatives, games, etc to deepen the learning. I think I am one of the few that finds the instruction to be slightly lacking. Some kids, like my DD, need that constant review to really make the learning stick. And also, like my DD, they don't do well with the Asian style of looking at a problem many different ways. My DD likes to be shown how to do it, and why it works. That is all.

 

That being said, while I do like CLE, there are some days we just really don't want to do it. It is slightly tedious, but I think most math programs - especially spiral programs - can feel that way.

[wapiti]

:iagree: use the placement tests.

 

We started out with MUS and switched to MM. I started her in first grade in MM because there was stuff we hadn't covered yet, and since she didn't have her facts down anyways, I wanted to review. In MUS, we stopped when we got to subtraction because she didn't have the addition facts, wasn't getting it, and I thought MM would also provide a little bit more spiral, plus some additional ways of teaching the same concepts. Her birthday is May, so technically, I really look at her as being a year behind because I would wait to send her. However, I didn't think MM would bomb the way it has and because she frustrates so early in the lesson, I don't feel like she's learning much at all, and that this past 6 months or so has been a waste. So, starting her out in the first grade again would be with the third curriculum, therefore the third time. However, there is stuff in there we hadn't covered yet, so this is definitely where I would want to start, and I would plan on moving quickly through if it was a review section she already knew. Also, I have already ordered a book off Amazon called "Two plus Two Does not Equal Five" that I receive today, and we are going to quit everything else, work on addition/subtraction and using manipulatives to regroup. I'm just getting ready to order all my curriculum, and was wanting to figure this out now even though we won't start it quite yet. I am going to put MM on the shelf.

 

I think RS might have a place value card game that might help. I'd definitely use lots of manipulatives if she understands better that way. There are one or two place value "games" with manipulatives recommended in MM 1B, right in the text - try those if you haven't already (they do not involve using the text, just the manipulatives).

 

Do keep in your back pocket the possibility of learning issues here. She is still more than two years behind with little progress after two different curricula. Frustrating early in the lesson would have me wondering about vision.

 

My last piece of advice - I would not take the summer off of math. Good luck!!! I hope you find what works!!!

[JessReplanted]

We love CLE math!!

[iafrmgrl77]

I cannot say enough about CLE! We absolutely adore this program! My dd had done 2 years of MM and was completely lost. I loved the concept of it, but it was not working for us. We did the placement tests, and I had her repeat grade 2 using CLE. We haven't looked back! My DS started with MUS. He is my always moving, always talking, busy learner. CLE works for him, too! A previous poster mentioned that she would not recommend it for a child struggling with place value. My son was struggling with place value in MUS, but he is understanding it much better using CLE. Early on, I would pull out our base ten blocks to use along with our lessons, to help him visualize what we were talking about. That seemed to help a lot. Place value comes up over and over again, as do all the concepts, so you don't need to worry if they don't seem to have it down right away. I think this was part of our struggle with MM. It moved on too quickly, without checking to make sure each concept was reviewed and understood.

 

CLE is so inexpensive that I would strongly encourage you to do the placement tests and give it a try. You can order the light units individually, so if you end up not liking the curriculum, you could literally be out as little as 10.00!

 

At some point every year I sit down to evaluate what we are doing and what may need switching up. CLE math is the one part of our homeschool curriculum I do not question. We love it!

[RootAnn]

I used one year of CLE (400) with my oldest dd. We normally use Abeka.

- CLE definitely isn't as colorful as Abeka.

- CLE is less expensive, overall, than Abeka.

- CLE is a bit "behind" Abeka on most topics (but not all) in the first few levels, but that also means it takes its time introducing concepts that sometimes Abeka speeds through. (Abeka figures the kid will get it by the end since there is so much review. And, if they don't get it this year, they'll get it when it is re-introduced & re-reviewed next year!)

 

- CLE has a placement test. (Abeka doesn't.)

- CLE allows you to buy light-units to start mid-year. (You have to buy the whole workbook w/Abeka, even if you are only going to use the second half of the year.)

- CLE's teacher books have alternate unit (light unit) tests if they bomb the first one. (You don't need the answer keys if you buy the teacher books.)

 

 

- CLE's lessons last more pages, but take about the same amount of time to complete as Abeka's front-and-back-of-a-page. This can make the lesson seem longer to some kids.

 

.... And, I'll end with repeating what others have said.

- You might be looking at a challenge with your child - whether it is a vision/mental/motor integration thing or Dyscalculia. Something to continue to look into.

- Have her take the placement test(s). They are free on the CLE website.

- Consider starting a level mid-year. There is plenty of review for topics you don't think she's that strong on. (Once you get going, there are ideas for "accelerating" CLE.)

- Don't take the summer off.

- AND ... play some math games. They are GREAT & low-stress ways to introduce & cement facts. (I highly recommend

.)

[Mom25girls]

We are ALL loving CLE. Last year my girls did Saxon and MM. They were doing well (I thought) until I realized that they were not retaining skills learned with MM. My then 3rd grader was weeping through MM lessons. Clearly, NOT working for us. CLE has brought the joy back to math. The girls (2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th) are doing LoF and CLE. They all really enjoy CLE. At the end of each lesson, they decorate the cover with a sticker. Even the 6th grader is still motivated! LOL! The girls create really fun pattern, scenes, etc. CLE moves at a progressive, yet gentle pace. My "Engineer Wanna Be" and her previously "Weepy Mathy Sis" are both interested. All 4 of them claim math to be their favorite subject! It's a WIN! Furthermore, I needed to test two of the girls this year (state requirement) and they both scored 100% correct on the math sections of the CAT test. I agree with previous posters that it is necessary to use the placement test. I started my 6th and 4th graders a year back. They're both just two units behind so we'll be caught up by fall. The girls LOVE the independence and variety of CLE. We are secular homeschoolers but that is NOT reason to ignore CLE. I think it's a hybrid blend of the aspects I liked of Saxon and Horizons Math (I've been homeschooling for well over a decade and have tried quite a few programs).

Oh, we use Lof as a reward for getting work done. LOVE homeschooling! LOL!

[3peasinapod]

We switched DD9 from MM to CLE. She, too, was lost in MM even though I backed way up. She just didn't get it no matter how we worked with the material. I started her in the middle of CLE 200 and now at the end of third grade, we are in 307. We are pretty much doing everything since starting the 300s and not skipping like we did in 200. We actually love MM for DD7, but she is more math-oriented.

 

Another thing you may want to consider when choosing between Abeka and CLE is since you are already doing Abeka workbooks for LA, you actually run the risk of the child getting bored/really used to a certain way of doing things. That's just a side thought for me. I have heard of burnout because of the same formatting across all subjects. :001_smile:

[Mommy22alyns]

I have nothing but good things to say about CLE math. It saved my skin here! I had so many math problems with Rebecca - we tried Saxon, Singapore, Right Start was great for a while but still frustrating. I decided to give CLE a try because I thought she could use some drill and some practice counting. We have NO math troubles, no fighting , no tears. She's getting it, she's progressing, I love it. Do use the placement tests.