Can't believe I'm even considering Singapore again...

[tiffanieh]

Thank you to many of you that posted about my word problem supplementation post earlier. Many of you recommended SM Challenging Word Problems, so I went and looked it up. Of course that lead me on a rabbit trail where I wound up on the assessment test page for their every day math curriculum. I'm looking at these assessments and shaking my head that there is NO WAY my kids could answer these tests anywhere close to their grade level. I'm thinking my soon to be 5th grader would fall somewhere between 3A/3B and my soon to be 3rd grader somewhere between 1B/2A. I know that scope and sequence for every math program is different, and I'm HOPING they would be able to do these types of problems eventually, but after finally finding a math program that we all weren't crying over (CLE Math) now I'm wondering if we aren't crying because we aren't challenging ourselves like we should?!? However, is crying a good indication that you are doing what is right? or wrong? UGH...I hate second guessing my decision, but I'd hate even more getting even further down the road and hating that we didn't "right" the wrong of choosing SM for math now vs. later.

 

What to do???

[Runningmom80]

I'm pretty sure I read on the website that the levels don't match up with us grades, for example 1a would be for a 7 year old. I think they are a year ahead. Don't quote me on that though!

[Momling]

Don't second guess yourself. There are lots of good solid programs out there. If cle is working for you, and your kids are learning and improving and feeling successful about math then stick with it.

[SkateLeft]

However, is crying a good indication that you are doing what is right? or wrong? UGH...I hate second guessing my decision, but I'd hate even more getting even further down the road and hating that we didn't "right" the wrong of choosing SM for math now vs. later.

 

:grouphug:

 

I don't know the background here, but it sounds like you've chosen CLE and are second guessing it. I think you should stick with what's working for you and ignore the results of the SM placement test.

 

My oldest didn't use SM (though my middle two did) and she's done just fine with higher level math. She was just admitted to an engineering scholarship program for high school girls, and is planning on pursuing a degree in chemical engineering. Not using SM didn't hurt her at all. (We tried it, but it wasn't a good fit for her at the time.) There are plenty of kids who haven't used SM and have gone on to be successful in high school and college math.

 

I think the biggest mistake people make with math is to switch curricula frequently. There's something to be said for being consistent once you find what works well for you and your kids.

[tiffanieh]

Thank you so much for all your reassurances. Yes, CLE math has been working great for us, the boys get A's across the board with it and math is once again a happy subject! I think we will supplement with some SM, like the challenging word problems, and stick with CLE as our core. Thank you again!!!

[ChrissySC]

Your goal now is to reach computational mastery. The rest, such as thinking and reasoning, will fall into place later and can easily be enhanced once they have mastered the basic arithmetic skills. :)

 

I like your plan and find nothing wrong with adding a twinge of SM if it suites their learning style. However, if they hate it, find something else. It is not worth the struggle.

[ssavings]

I'm pretty sure I read on the website that the levels don't match up with us grades, for example 1a would be for a 7 year old. I think they are a year ahead. Don't quote me on that though!

 

I am pretty sure MFW (which uses Singapore primary math) says the same thing.

[justLisa]

I'm pretty sure I read on the website that the levels don't match up with us grades, for example 1a would be for a 7 year old. I think they are a year ahead. Don't quote me on that though!

 

Yes. In many countries kids don't start school until they are 7.

[Roadrunner]

I'm pretty sure I read on the website that the levels don't match up with us grades, for example 1a would be for a 7 year old. I think they are a year ahead. Don't quote me on that though!

 

Apparently there is a great deal of difference in math standards between states. SM matches with CA standards pretty closely.

[WIS0320]

Apparently there is a great deal of difference in math standards between states. SM matches with CA standards pretty closely.

 

I put my daughter, who has a summer birthday, so she was a new six when we started first grade, into Singapore 1a. We are just finishing up 1B but have also used some other programs along the way like McRuffy and a bit of MM when she needed extra practice or something shown incrementally (fact families!). I'm personally staggered by the number of people on this board who seem to have first graders finishing 2a/2b in either Singapore or MM. I don't think that is the norm for 6-7 year olds.

 

Singapore 1a/1b is leaps and bounds ahead of what our public school first graders are doing. I had no idea until my daughter's best friend joined us for school one day during a teacher work day and she was totally lost. Not lost because Singapore is a bit different but lost in that she was counting on her fingers to add 6+4 and this was in January. The school uses Terc and follows VA standards.

 

Anyway, I like so much about Singapore but recently I gave my daughter the Horizons placement and she was totally lost because there was material that we haven't covered yet. It is tricky finding your place in a new math program since they all have a different scope and sequence. I am not sure I would worry about CLE being "behind" it may just have a slightly different sequence.

[Roadrunner]

I put my daughter, who has a summer birthday, so she was a new six when we started first grade, into Singapore 1a. We are just finishing up 1B but have also used some other programs along the way like McRuffy and a bit of MM when she needed extra practice or something shown incrementally (fact families!). I'm personally staggered by the number of people on this board who seem to have first graders finishing 2a/2b in either Singapore or MM. I don't think that is the norm for 6-7 year olds.

 

Singapore 1a/1b is leaps and bounds ahead of what our public school first graders are doing. I had no idea until my daughter's best friend joined us for school one day during a teacher work day and she was totally lost. Not lost because Singapore is a bit different but lost in that she was counting on her fingers to add 6+4 and this was in January. The school uses Terc and follows VA standards.

 

Anyway, I like so much about Singapore but recently I gave my daughter the Horizons placement and she was totally lost because there was material that we haven't covered yet. It is tricky finding your place in a new math program since they all have a different scope and sequence. I am not sure I would worry about CLE being "behind" it may just have a slightly different sequence.

 

My boys are in PS here (1st and K) and so far this has been our experience.

SM doesn't really teach regrouping until second grade, yet because it is so strong on place value, kids are adding/subtracting up to 100 problems that require regrouping without a standard method (stack the numbers...). Envision, our PS program, also has kids adding/subtracting beyond 20, yet I think relative to SM it is weak on place value, so it's sticking with problems that don't require regrouping. So it seems to me SM pushes boundaries but remains within scope/sequence (most of the time) of CA PS standards.

Same with multiplication/division. SM introduces multiplication/division in the first grade, unlike PS, but doesn't really "teach" it until second grade. I mean it is more exposure/understanding in the first grade, but no multiplication tables and fact practice. PS only teaches it in the second grade, but overall takes is as far as SM. We have only done SM through 3A (sorry, one of those people) and judging by what I have glimpsed from my friends children homework, it tracks about the same. For example, long division, multi-digit multiplication, introduction of fractions is what Envision does in the third grade as well. I don't know the nuances yet of what's to come in Envision beyond first grade, but I won't be surprised to see similar patterns. Also, in CA they are now teaching addition/subtraction to 10 in K.

Math is one of those things that builds on itself. There is no reason to rush, but I wouldn't delay it either because it appears ahead. Everybody has its own pace.

[ssavings]

I have no idea what public schools here teach.

 

That being said, CLE is generally considered to be a strong program.

 

OP, I'd trust that CLE is a good program and will get you where you need to be. I'd certainly not worry in the least about CLE's grade level relative to Singapore. The best program is the one that gets done, right? Obviously, they are learning and retaining with CLE, and that's the goal! It's so easy to compare where your child is to where another program is... But that's not helpful. Singapore didn't work for your kids. CLE does. Don't fix what's not broken!

[jennynd]

if what you have is working, I will not switch. If you concern about the "word problem" maybe get a CWP as supplement.

[melmichigan]

Both programs get you where you need to go. :) The scope and sequence is different between SM and CLE, especially within a grade level. I have kids that use CLE and kids that use SM, kids that use both, and kids that don't use any of either program but are still successful in math. Different things work for different children.

[blondeviolin]

My oldest will be 6 next month. She will be moving in to SM 2a by the fall, and it's pretty rare here. She can add two digit numbers with regrouping mentally without problem. My niece is also in K, but they have her attending first grade math. Her class is currently adding up to 30 with manipulatives or by drawing pictures.

[Farrar]

We've skipped around a bit with the CWP, but we've mostly done the grade below, which has been fine, I think. The CWP problems are, honestly, kind of challenging. If my kids were the sort who like to puzzle out math, we'd do them on level, but they aren't, so we don't.

 

There's a raging debate here about whether SM is ahead of grade level, so I'm not touching that with a twenty foot pole.

[Ecclecticmum]

We've skipped around a bit with the CWP, but we've mostly done the grade below, which has been fine, I think. The CWP problems are, honestly, kind of challenging. If my kids were the sort who like to puzzle out math, we'd do them on level, but they aren't, so we don't.

 

There's a raging debate here about whether SM is ahead of grade level, so I'm not touching that with a twenty foot pole.

 

We're In Aus, so I was advised by another forum that it was one grade ahead for out here. But even the Australian distributor shows it on grade level and for another state its showing Grade 2 as SM1.

 

Really its on the individual child. Since we didn't get to do homeschool pre-k with DD, we just started on the 2yr pre-k/kinder so this year she'll be on the 2nd part of that. We'll also be doing some living Maths supplements (LOF, Maths Lessons for a Living Education) and she won't start 1A &1B till next year.

 

Since my other two, I will have with me from the get go, Eve is going to do some big SM preschool workbook I found (she pre-pre-k lol) and DS/Chaos is going to start the Pre-K bit (so on grade level) of SM, but we're going to take it slowly at his own pace. If he's not ready (I kind of doubt that, since his capabilities for that type of work seem to be there, the only thing holding him back is his speech/vocab) then we'll shelve it for next year.

 

What you need to do is just concentrate on your children. Every math program I have come across seems to be totally different in S&S, but in the end, it all seems to work out. So as long as your children are happy and seem to be learning with the program, I would stick with it. As you suggested, if you want to add in supplements, thats great/fine, its always good to get another angle/perspective for maths. I just wouldn't switch over unless there was a good reason to (Like Chaos, I am unsure if SM will be the way to go for him, because of his learning style, if so, we would probably look into Rightstart as thats more his thing). I've heard great things about CLE, so as I said, as long as your children are happy, I wouldn't rock the boat :grouphug:

Edited April 27, 2012 by Ecclecticmum
Fixed up a boo-boo

[Five More Minutes]

I know that scope and sequence for every math program is different, and I'm HOPING they would be able to do these types of problems eventually, but after finally finding a math program that we all weren't crying over (CLE Math) now I'm wondering if we aren't crying because we aren't challenging ourselves like we should?!? However, is crying a good indication that you are doing what is right? or wrong? UGH...I hate second guessing my decision, but I'd hate even more getting even further down the road and hating that we didn't "right" the wrong of choosing SM for math now vs. later.

 

I think that not crying is a good enough reason to stick with your chosen math program. (And I'm a fan of Singapore Math, which has been a great fit for my children.)

 

I was just re-reading the section on choosing math programs in TWTM yesterday:

"If your child cries when you bring out the math book, switch programs, no matter how good everyone else tells you the program is. If your child is flourishing, stick with the program ..."

 

Supplementing with something like Singapore's CWPs can enhance your chosen program by bringing in problems from a different perspective. But an outright switch, unless you are noticing serious weaknesses and/or tears with your other program, may put you farther back in the long run.

[ondreeuh]

Well I can just share my experience. My son did very well with CLE. We had to switch to Saxon because ds was going to attend the village school and have his dad as his teacher. Anyway, although everything in Saxon was review, the approach Saxon took made it more challenging. From looking at the Saxon scope & sequence, I figured ds would be able to start 76, but instead he placed into 54! He just finished the book and struggled with the word problem the whole way through. CLE showed him how to do operations, but he wasn't able to do the more conceptual work in Saxon over ose same topics. Also, let me say that CLE teaches the concepts better than Saxon does, but the practice problems are heavily focused on computation so it's easy to forget the conceptual side of it.. Saxon doesn't explain the concepts well, but their story problems make you apply conceptual knowledge. Given that Saxon isnt known for its word problems, i think that makes CLE exceptionally light in WPs. We spent the whole year building up ds's word problem skills. Now that he finished 54 I am doing MM with him to basically per-teach the concepts in 65, and my plan for him is to work through the book next school year, focusing on the word problems again. I would consider sticking with MM but ds does better with a spiral program and we can continue with Saxon for years.

 

So in my experience, the fact that CLE was happily done did not mean it was a good fit.... Just that it was too easy.

Edited April 27, 2012 by ondreeuh