Bad teaching or something else?

[CLBMom]

This is my first time posting on this board so hello :) I have posted on the general and curriculum board about my situation and my oldest ds in particular. This post is about my ds10 who is in 5th but for anyone who doesn't know me I will give a quick run down of everything. I have ds10, dd8, & ds4. All are currently in private school. I plan to hs them next year for a multitude of reasons but my ds10 is the main one. At first glance it looks like he is either just not getting proper teaching or he is just being lazy, but the more I think about him and look at the WHOLE picture the more concerned I am becoming.He was an honor role student up until the middle of last year when things starting going downhill. He is barely scraping by now. His worst subject is spelling, followed by math and although it's not an official subject this year, his handwriting looks like a kindergartners and always has. His teacher keeps saying "He needs to slow down", "He needs to focus"," He needs to be neater". She doesn't seem to think there is a real problem. For her credit she can't be but so bad because out of her 16 students 12 have a 90 or above average in all subjects. Obviously my ds isn't one of them. I think the best way to explain this is to list his strengths and weaknesses. Let's start with the positive.

 

He is often described as "bright" "extremely smart"

His standardized tests up till last year (don't have this years yet) put him between 2 & 6 grades ahead.

He can carry on deep adult like conversations.

He has great silent reading comprehension IF it's something of some length such as a novel compared to a few sentences.

He can do some impressive mental math.

Excelled at gross motor skills early on, is a talented athlete.

Very good at music, picked up piano quickly.

Learned sign language extremely fast.

Very well behaved at school. I'm not lying when I say I've never had a note or call home in 6 years.

Gets along well with classmates.

 

 

 

Ok now for the worrisome stuff

 

Terrible handwriting print&cursive. His o & a, m & n look alike.

Often you can't read his writing at all.

He excelled in spelling till mid last year. No matter how much or how we study we both end up crying and he still is lucky to get a D

When asked what he thought his problem was he said the teacher talks too fast. I asked him again last night and he said "I can't figure out how the letters fit together, I can't see it"

When discussing ideas for writing he can really be creative but when he actually writes it, it looks like his second grade sister wrote it. The ideas in his head don't make it to paper.

Although he knows the rules of punctuation and capitalization he rarely uses them in his writing. He often writes his last name with a lowercase letter. First name starts with C so hard to tell if he capitalizes that.

He frequently misses math problems because he can't line the numbers up or he just loses a number somewhere.

He struggles to read short passages. If he has to study definitions I have to read them to him, then he understands fine.

Very poor oral reader. Stumbles on words and skips some entirely.

Has taken Spanish for 4 years and probably knows maybe 20 words

He suffers from frequent headaches and stomachaches I believe are stress related.

Extremely messy and unorganized although that may just be 10 year old boy :tongue_smilie:

 

 

 

 

So hive do I need to be concerned that he needs more then a lot of attention or basic remediation? He is excited about being hsed because he believes I can fix him :( . For what it's worth my sister and uncle have dyslexia. Ds has never had the letter reversals that they struggled/struggle with. If something was really wrong like somekind of LD wouldn't it show up before now? Thank you for the help.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[Mandamom]

In addition to signs of dyslexia you also have some signs of dysgraphia (poor handwriting, struggling to get ideas on paper and struggles with organizing math problems on paper). It sounds like he needs some work with phonemic awareness to help with hearing the sounds of the letters in words.

 

Many bright dyslexics are able to compensate very well so the dyslexia (and other issues) don't show up until much older (generally 4 to 6th grade). The fact that you already have dyslexia in the family makes it likely that your ds has it also.

[ShelleyW]

Since he is in 5th grade, it is important that you figure out what is going on. His self-confidence is probably suffering and if you wait too long, that is hard to repair. He fits the profile for dyslexia/dysgraphia but you want to know for sure since he is 10 already. I think you need to have him tested too. My dd is 10 and I just had her tested this year. I wish I would have done it years ago. It would have save us lots of stress and I am convinced she would be reading at grade level had I done it sooner. As a result, she absolutely hates school and I don't know if I can ever fix it.

[CLBMom]

Thank you everyone for helping me confirm that maybe my Mommy gut could right. My dh has his head in the sand and thinks he just needs to work harder. My dh himself has terrible dysgraphia that he gets teased about as an adult, so he somehow thinks its just one of those things. I'm not sure if dh is dyslexic but he HATES to read any more then he has to. Thank God he has somehow overcome these things and found a career he can make decent money to support us. Where do I go for help? The private school has a counselor and a title one teacher. While my dh is able to support us we can't afford insurance (I am a nurse but injured my back. Not sure if I will ever work again). The kids have FAMIS. I have no clue if it covers screening for this. I know it covers normal psych. Should I try the school or his pediatrician for a referral somewhere? Thank y'all so much!

[Heathermomster]

I just wanted to mention that the Scottish Rite Learning Centers provide free dyslexia screenings to everyone. You can look them up and see if one is located in your area. They are located all over the country and don't test IQ or provide a full neuro report.

 

Spelling is a problem for dyslexics. DS has attended a private Christian school since pre-K. He will coming home in the Fall for 7th grade. He types his work in class on a Dana Alphasmart and prints his work on a printer provided to the school. He has received Wilson reading instruction since the beginning of 2nd grade. I homeschooled DS second half of 5th grade and taught him to type and master his math facts.

 

Spelling, grammar, handwriting, and math are his problem areas. We have been afterschooling for years. As a result, his grades in no way reflect his LDs. Without a neuro report, an outsider would never imagine that my son is 2e, diagnosed dysgraphia/dyslexia/dyscalculia and gifted. A neuro report is critical for receiving accommodations for college.

 

I'd like to recommend the books Overcoming Dyslexia by Shaywitz and The Dyslexic Advantage by the Eides. Both books helped me to understand the biological basis of dyslexia.

[PeterPan]

Get his eyes checked. Everything you've said can be eyes. If he's scoring that far ahead in reading, he *won't* get a reading disorder label. Just telling you straight. It's labeled reading disorder, not dyslexia, and he's not going to get that label scoring 2-3 years above grade level. What you've described is eyes. You go to a developmental optometrist and get a full eval. On the short, non-interesting passages of reading he doesn't have any visual clues or a larger context till fill in the gap. His eyes may be skipping words and not tracking well as he reads. That's why it shows up in the short passages, not the long. And yes the eyes will cause the handwriting problems.

 

Yes there can be other things but after the eyes you're talking about a neuropsych eval. That will take 1-4 months to get into and can be expensive. We did it and it's worth it. The eyes though are something you can get into in just a couple weeks and it could be the problem. http://www.covd.org is where you find the developmental optometrists. A regular one won't do. As part of the testing they'll do a visagraph test. They have him wear infrared goggles that track the eye movements. They'll be able to show if the eyes are skipping lines or words, backtracking, etc. So you'll know very clearly whether it's a vision problem or something else.

 

BTW, this age is the most common time for people to pursue testing. Definitely do it. The work gets harder from this point out, and you want to know if something is going on.

[EKS]

Dyslexia. Google "stealth dyslexia" to see if it fits. You don't have to have reversals to have dyslexia.

 

It sounds like this teacher has an easy time of it with so many bright students in her classroom. She probably doesn't have a clue about how to deal with dyslexia in a student.

 

My experience (my 15yo son has dyslexia) is that there is no magic bullet. Remediating dyslexia just takes *a lot* of hard work and time on the part of the teacher and student. What takes a typical learner one hour to master will likely take a dyslexic learner (in their areas of weakness) 10 hours. Using materials that "work" with your student will help a lot, so don't be afraid to move around a bit with your curriculum choices.

[EKS]

If he's scoring that far ahead in reading, he *won't* get a reading disorder label.

 

Not true. My son was scoring at the 99th percentile on standardized reading tests and he got a diagnosis of dyslexia. Very bright children with dyslexia are frequently able to compensate well when reading silently but fall apart when asked to read aloud. They also continue to have problems with certain aspects writing, usually throughout their lives.

[peacefully]

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[peacefully]

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[Heathermomster]

Wanted to add: I really believed that my ds was dyslexic. He matched most of the descriptors on the online symptom lists. Our NP (same guy who diagnosed my dh) was emphatic that because of ds's subtest scores, he couldn't be dyslexic, despite his poor reading performance. It turned out that my ds needed vision therapy, and he now reads beautifully above age-level. I now strongly advocate testing and not self-assessment.

 

I'm mentioning this because I've seen both sides of this fence. I'm just chiming in with the others who are saying that testing is the best way to sort through all of factors that could be having a role in your son's difficulties. If finances and insurance are issues, I'd look at what services the local school district can provide. Basically, in addition to the specific information that a psychologist can give you (I prefer a neuropsych, but others here have had good outcomes with educational psychologists), you want to find those who can provide documentation that future institutions will accept, in case you want to apply for accommodations in the future. I'm not sure that testing agencies or colleges will accept results from the Scottish Rite, but it's something to look into. They will accept documentation from school districts.

 

A Scottish Rite diagnosis is a sticky business. I generally recommend it for families who express reluctance with dyslexia screening. It's free...Who can argue with that?

 

They don't perform IQ testing, and I've been told that a dyslexic child may be compensating well enough not to show enough dyslexia indicators for diagnosis. Neuropsychologists are qualified to test fully where Scottish Rite cannot. I'm not sure a school district will accept a Scottish Rite diagnosis. Mine didn't when I called about it 5 years ago, but then my local ps is bad...

Edited April 5, 2012 by Heathermomster
Cleaned it up...

[FairProspects]

Wanted to add: I really believed that my ds was dyslexic. He matched most of the descriptors on the online symptom lists. Our NP (same guy who diagnosed my dh) was emphatic that because of ds's subtest scores, he couldn't be dyslexic, despite his poor reading performance. It turned out that my ds needed vision therapy, and he now reads beautifully above age-level. I now strongly advocate testing and not self-assessment.

 

I'm mentioning this because I've seen both sides of this fence. I'm just chiming in with the others who are saying that testing is the best way to sort through all of factors that could be having a role in your son's difficulties. If finances and insurance are issues, I'd look at what services the local school district can provide. Basically, in addition to the specific information that a psychologist can give you (I prefer a neuropsych, but others here have had good outcomes with educational psychologists), you want to find those who can provide documentation that future institutions will accept, in case you want to apply for accommodations in the future. I'm not sure that testing agencies or colleges will accept results from the Scottish Rite, but it's something to look into. They will accept documentation from school districts.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I was convinced at various times ds had so many issues like Aspergers, and working memory problems, that he did not have at all. I now have hundreds of dollars worth of materials that are useless to me because they are written for remediation of areas that turned out to be strengths for ds. The symptoms are overlapping and it is way too hard to self-assess. A professional assessment is one of the best gifts you can ever give yourself and your child.

[Guest]

I was convinced at various times ds had so many issues like Aspergers, and working memory problems, that he did not have at all. I now have hundreds of dollars worth of materials that are useless to me because they are written for remediation of areas that turned out to be strengths for ds. The symptoms are overlapping and it is way too hard to self-assess. A professional assessment is one of the best gifts you can ever give yourself and your child.

 

Thank you for sharing this! This is definitely something I also need to ponder over.

[crazyfordlr]

I'd also recommend getting some kind of professional assessment. I thought my odd had ASD when she was younger, maybe dyslexia as she got older. Finally got a dx of Auditory Processing Disorder as a primary and receptive/expressive language issues additionally.

[Finnella]

I'll chime in and agree with the other posters who recommend an evaluation. It'll help you help your child so much more effectively.

 

My DS is gifted with LDs. We didn't get his ADD diagnosed until 3rd grade, after I convinced my DH that what we needed wasn't more discipline. By 5th grade, additional testing revealed multiple LDs and Aspergers. Before then, my DS was using his brains to hide his deficits. That gets much more difficult as children get older.

[Pen]

In general I would tend to chime in with those saying you need an evaluation. But some people have awful experiences trying to get evaluated...lots of expense and in the end no real answers. I did get evaluations at the local ps, which came out as enough to qualify for IEP help. It did not yield a definitive diagnosis. If I went on to private np evaluations, I might get a more definitive dx--or not. My working model on which to base action is dyslexia (also, I suppose, dysgraphia, but that seems secondary).

 

You and your son know something is going on. The question is what.

 

My son was having problems many of which overlap what you describe--but much more severe. I started using materials that were supposed to help with dyslexic children and saw a turn around. Someday he may need an official diagnosis (say for extra time on tests at college level), but for now knowing that the dyslexia-friendly curriculum materials are what work for him is enough--and I can spend the money on the helpful materials rather than on testing. That said, if I'd been wrong, then I could have spent a lot on wrong materials, as some pp posts report...if, say, what was really going on was some auditory processing problem (but he was at least basically screened for that by his pediatrician and that did not seem to be the problem).

 

Reversals were not really an issue, rather, for me the biggest red-flag was that mine could not read things that did not have context clues at all--and that there was pretty clearly an issue with words, not with vision in general. A reading specialist thought dyslexia was probably the problem and steered me to things like Sally Shaywitz's book to see if it fit. It did. It also helped for ideas. Now at this stage I am looking for more in places like The Dyslexic Advantage. It was at least helpful for me to read books that helped me to be able to get a sense of what was going on.

 

The things you mention that most sound like dyslexia is likely, include the family history, that he can read long books to himself, but struggles to read short passages aloud, and the concurrence of what sounds like some dysgraphia... that he thinks you can "fix" him makes it sound like he is troubled by whatever is going on, not like it is laziness. But he may still have to apply himself extra hard in the areas of difficulty--use graph paper to line up his numbers columns and so forth--and generally be willing to work to help fix whatever is going on himself. What, by the way, is his own view of what the problem is? Did the comment about not being able to see how the letters fit together apply only to spelling? And does he mean he is seeing things in a blurry way or some such that suggests a vision problem ? Or a letters sequencing problem which fits more with the dyslexia idea? Maybe he would have some more insight that could help. If you say out words more slowly than his teacher, can he get them right then?--that might more suggest an auditory issue of some sort. ????

Edited April 8, 2012 by Pen

[PeterPan]

In general I would tend to chime in with those saying you need an evaluation. But some people have awful experiences trying to get evaluated...lots of expense and in the end no real answers. I did get evaluations at the local ps, which came out as enough to qualify for IEP help. It did not yield a definitive diagnosis. If I went on to private np evaluations, I might get a more definitive dx--or not. My working model on which to base action is dyslexia (also, I suppose, dysgraphia, but that seems secondary).

 

 

I've talked with a couple people IRL who had similar incidents with their local ps and testing. The psychs didn't run all the tests a private np would have and didn't provide the results and the help applying them that many of us have gotten with private nps. There *are* some nps who take your money and aren't much help, as with any profession. I don't know the odds of having a bad experience with a ps eval. I'm sure we've had some people on the boards who got great help through their ps. I'm just saying you aren't the first. Sometimes it's bias against homeschoolers. Sometimes it's budget. Sometimes they only evaluate for certain things the law mandates and not EVERYTHING a private neuropsych would test.

 

Penn, for us the value of the eval, beyond getting the labels, was getting the score breakdowns (processing speed, working memory, etc.) and the recommendations on what to DO with that info. It resulted in huge changes for us, once I understood exactly what was going on. I understand the point about putting it into curriculum. On the other hand, I spent a LOT of money on curriculum over the years. My kid is turning 13, so I have 3 years up on you. I've been doing this 8 years now, and I've spent thousands and thousands and thousands trying to get stuff to work for her. At that rate, the $1500 I spent on our eval was a bargain. If we had done it years ago, we would have SAVED money.

 

Not wanting to pick on you personally, just pointing on more of the story. That's fabulous that what you're doing is working. There are a lot of things coming up in junior high and high school where it's going to help to have something official. I'm already using it. Just today I wrote an email to an online teacher for a summer course she's enrolled in, specifying the accommodations we need. I'm pretty straightforward about it and going to do my best to make it happen, because I KNOW. I have the paper to show it. And frankly, I'm hoping that paper is persuasive; we'll see. And it's going to shape our discussions about college, high school testing, etc. So no, I really think it's important to do the testing *at some point*. And from what the people on the hs boards are saying, the College Board (SAT/ACT people) and some colleges will want to see that paper trail starting much earlier, not just at the end. If it starts at the end, then they figure the accommodations weren't that essential.

 

BTW, the accommodations the neuropsych recommended *weren't* ones I would have thought of. It was fascinating to see someone come at her from fresh eyes. Sometimes you're missing things. He saw her a different way, talked about her strengths and weaknesses, and then had a whole list of things we could do to make her more successful. And then to have those things in writing, it's just golden. I feel much more confident walking up to someone and saying this is what I need, this is what's going on.

 

You can get by without. I have a friend who sent her dd off to hs, got burnt by the incomplete testing of the ps, and the dc is doing well in the supportive environment of the college. But it doesn't have to be that way. There are good answers to be had and some really GOOD neuropsychs out there.

Edited April 8, 2012 by OhElizabeth

[Tokyomarie]

Since he is in 5th grade, it is important that you figure out what is going on. His self-confidence is probably suffering and if you wait too long, that is hard to repair. He fits the profile for dyslexia/dysgraphia but you want to know for sure since he is 10 already. I think you need to have him tested too. My dd is 10 and I just had her tested this year. I wish I would have done it years ago. It would have save us lots of stress and I am convinced she would be reading at grade level had I done it sooner. As a result, she absolutely hates school and I don't know if I can ever fix it.

:iagree:

 

Same story here. I didn't get the proper testing done when my son was young because my husband was stressed out about both cost (no coverage at the time for any of it- generally good ins. but wouldn't cover anything developmental) and the idea of labels. I limped along for years learning what I could through online forums, reading books, etc. But because some of my son's difficulties were more severe than his older sister's (she did have some evaluation when she was 9.5- different place in our family's life), trying to teach him effectively just wasn't coming together. Evaluation at age 15 was just too late to avoid some of the emotional and social consequences of dealing with an undiagnosed disability.

[Pen]

I've talked with a couple people IRL who had similar incidents with their local ps and testing. The psychs didn't run all the tests a private np would have and didn't provide the results and the help applying them that many of us have gotten with private nps. There *are* some nps who take your money and aren't much help, as with any profession. I don't know the odds of having a bad experience with a ps eval. I'm sure we've had some people on the boards who got great help through their ps. I'm just saying you aren't the first. Sometimes it's bias against homeschoolers. Sometimes it's budget. Sometimes they only evaluate for certain things the law mandates and not EVERYTHING a private neuropsych would test.

 

Penn, for us the value of the eval, beyond getting the labels, was getting the score breakdowns (processing speed, working memory, etc.) and the recommendations on what to DO with that info. It resulted in huge changes for us, once I understood exactly what was going on. I understand the point about putting it into curriculum. On the other hand, I spent a LOT of money on curriculum over the years. My kid is turning 13, so I have 3 years up on you. I've been doing this 8 years now, and I've spent thousands and thousands and thousands trying to get stuff to work for her. At that rate, the $1500 I spent on our eval was a bargain. If we had done it years ago, we would have SAVED money.

 

Not wanting to pick on you personally, just pointing on more of the story. That's fabulous that what you're doing is working. There are a lot of things coming up in junior high and high school where it's going to help to have something official. I'm already using it. Just today I wrote an email to an online teacher for a summer course she's enrolled in, specifying the accommodations we need. I'm pretty straightforward about it and going to do my best to make it happen, because I KNOW. I have the paper to show it. And frankly, I'm hoping that paper is persuasive; we'll see. And it's going to shape our discussions about college, high school testing, etc. So no, I really think it's important to do the testing *at some point*. And from what the people on the hs boards are saying, the College Board (SAT/ACT people) and some colleges will want to see that paper trail starting much earlier, not just at the end. If it starts at the end, then they figure the accommodations weren't that essential.

 

BTW, the accommodations the neuropsych recommended *weren't* ones I would have thought of. It was fascinating to see someone come at her from fresh eyes. Sometimes you're missing things. He saw her a different way, talked about her strengths and weaknesses, and then had a whole list of things we could do to make her more successful. And then to have those things in writing, it's just golden. I feel much more confident walking up to someone and saying this is what I need, this is what's going on.

 

You can get by without. I have a friend who sent her dd off to hs, got burnt by the incomplete testing of the ps, and the dc is doing well in the supportive environment of the college. But it doesn't have to be that way. There are good answers to be had and some really GOOD neuropsychs out there.

 

All right. Then I'll fully chime in to agree with the idea that OP should get son evaluated...but add that who or what does the evaluation needs careful investigation if it is to be of value.

[CLBMom]

OP here :) Thank y'all for all the advice. I had actually forgotten about a resource I have in my family. I hadn't really spoken to her in years but my Aunt is a special Ed teacher with her Masters who is finally retiring this year after 35 years. I sent her a message (gotta love fb! Lol) and told her what was going on with ds. She immediately responded that yes it sounded like he had some kind of LD. She explained that the PS is responsible to eval him even though he is in private school at the moment. She said once he is hs'd the PS don't have to help. Some will some won't but the state doesn't make them. Makes a ton of sense doesn't it private school kids get help but not hs:confused:. Anywayeven though she isn't working in the same city she has connections and is going to do her best to get an eval set up with the best person possible. First she said he needed public school, but I can't imagine how hard it would be to start a PS in 6th grade and not know anyone plus have a LD. I discussed hsing with her and even though she is pro PS she admitted that he could probably benefit from the one on one. She said once we know his diagnosis she can help both him and I learn how to help him . I'm so relieved to have someone on my side. My dh is refusing to see it . He is still blaming it on ds being lazy. Either that or says that's how I was. I want to say exactly! You can still tell dh has issues he will never t

admit to . So this is where we are. I'm sure you will be seeing more of me around here :001_smile:

[PeterPan]

Oh good! Now a few things. IF you have the money or insurance coverage, you're likely to get a BETTER eval and more thorough help if you go privately rather than the schools. You can make the school eval work, but just saying. Two, you are correct in your guess that one on one can make a HUGE difference with these kids. There *is* a place for school. The structure of school can be very good for some kids with SN. But for some kids the one-on-one component of homeschooling is invaluable. And just remember, if you go privately, rather than through the ps, you have the chance to find someone who is not going to be ANTAGONISTIC to homeschooling. Our np was neutral but said that in our case it was working out very well and to keep going. I asked him point blank if she would be better off in school, and he said no, that she really was doing better with the small groups and one-on-one.

 

The people I've talked with who got their evals through the ps either didn't get all the tests they needed done and all the results, or they got the scores and no help on applying them. If you can afford to go privately, I would. Our np was AMAZING. The advice he gave me and the time he spent going through every single subject was invaluable. I know your relative will help you. I'm just suggesting you look into private if it's an option. ;)

 

As far as handling your dh, well here's something to chew on. *Often* these issues are coming from one of the parents. Not all the time, but it can happen. So then you're dealing with that parent's memories of how *he* handled the problems and how he thinks the *dc* should respond, kwim? And sometimes looking back his perspective was different from being in it. And sometimes the dc has a more severe presentation than the parent. So you can have a parent who got by with his problem (suck up, make it work) and a kid who isn't going to be able to get by, no matter what. Could be the same problem but a more severe presentation. You know it took me a YEAR to come to terms with the labels they were talking about for my dd, a full year. Give him time. Absolutely do the testing, but let it work out slowly. He may need to see the results from the changes before he understands and can accept the reasons for the changes, kwim? And when you get the test results, you'll assuredly make changes.

 

It takes time to get these evals. Like it can take 1-4 months to get into the neuropsych and another month to get the results. In the meantime, think about getting his eyes checked. You can just do a regular exam, but do it with a *developmental* optometrist, not a regular one. You go to COVD to find them. Get a good one. They'll screen for some extra things that could be affecting his school work. Sometimes it's part of the mix. A good eye exam never hurts anything, and it could turn up something. It's something you can do now, while you wait to get into the neuropsych.

 

Keep us posted on how it goes! :)

[Tiramisu]

My son was having problems many of which overlap what you describe--but much more severe. I started using materials that were supposed to help with dyslexic children and saw a turn around. Someday he may need an official diagnosis (say for extra time on tests at college level), but for now knowing that the dyslexia-friendly curriculum materials are what work for him is enough--and I can spend the money on the helpful materials rather than on testing. That said, if I'd been wrong, then I could have spent a lot on wrong materials, as some pp posts report...if, say, what was really going on was some auditory processing problem (but he was at least basically screened for that by his pediatrician and that did not seem to be the problem).

QUOTE]

 

I don't want to go astray from the OP's issue, or give Pen a hard time in any way, but I'm just jumping in for clarification on this point because of our own difficult history...A pediatrician cannot in anyway screen for an auditory processing disorder. A speech language pathologist may pick up signs but they can't exactly screen for this either. Only an audiologist will be able to diagnose an auditory processing disorder. And among audiologists, it's really important to find someone with experience with processing disorders, not just hearing impairments. Kids with CAPD have normal hearing. My dd has normal hearing, "passed" an auditory processing screening with a local audiologist, and wasn't diagnosed with CAPD until she had a full CAP evaluation at a children's hospital where they were very familiar with CAPD. There are different types of CAPD and specific testing with specialized equipment is necessary to cover all the bases. Finally getting the right diagnosis has made a world of difference for us.

 

Hoping for the best for the OP and Pen, too. :grouphug:

[CLBMom]

Oh good! Now a few things. IF you have the money or insurance coverage, you're likely to get a BETTER eval and more thorough help if you go privately rather than the schools. You can make the school eval work, but just saying. Two, you are correct in your guess that one on one can make a HUGE difference with these kids. There *is* a place for school. The structure of school can be very good for some kids with SN. But for some kids the one-on-one component of homeschooling is invaluable. And just remember, if you go privately, rather than through the ps, you have the chance to find someone who is not going to be ANTAGONISTIC to homeschooling. Our np was neutral but said that in our case it was working out very well and to keep going. I asked him point blank if she would be better off in school, and he said no, that she really was doing better with the small groups and one-on-one.

 

The people I've talked with who got their evals through the ps either didn't get all the tests they needed done and all the results, or they got the scores and no help on applying them. If you can afford to go privately, I would. Our np was AMAZING. The advice he gave me and the time he spent going through every single subject was invaluable. I know your relative will help you. I'm just suggesting you look into private if it's an option. ;)

 

As far as handling your dh, well here's something to chew on. *Often* these issues are coming from one of the parents. Not all the time, but it can happen. So then you're dealing with that parent's memories of how *he* handled the problems and how he thinks the *dc* should respond, kwim? And sometimes looking back his perspective was different from being in it. And sometimes the dc has a more severe presentation than the parent. So you can have a parent who got by with his problem (suck up, make it work) and a kid who isn't going to be able to get by, no matter what. Could be the same problem but a more severe presentation. You know it took me a YEAR to come to terms with the labels they were talking about for my dd, a full year. Give him time. Absolutely do the testing, but let it work out slowly. He may need to see the results from the changes before he understands and can accept the reasons for the changes, kwim? And when you get the test results, you'll assuredly make changes.

 

It takes time to get these evals. Like it can take 1-4 months to get into the neuropsych and another month to get the results. In the meantime, think about getting his eyes checked. You can just do a regular exam, but do it with a *developmental* optometrist, not a regular one. You go to COVD to find them. Get a good one. They'll screen for some extra things that could be affecting his school work. Sometimes it's part of the mix. A good eye exam never hurts anything, and it could turn up something. It's something you can do now, while you wait to get into the neuropsych.

 

Keep us posted on how it goes! :)

 

 

Unfortunately our insurance doesn't pay for "Any educational testing that can be preformed by the school system" Right now money is a huge issue. I am a nurse and injured myself last year.I've been out of work since July and just had back surgery in Feb. We have no clue if or when I will ever work again. The crazy thing is even though we live in one city and the kids current private school is located in another the state says the PS in the city the private school is in is responsible for testing but nothing else. I'm hoping with the knowledge that they don't have to treat him no matter what they find and my Aunts help we can get the right tests. She is the one in her school who takes tests results and helps come up with a plan of action so she knows what tests he needs. She can also work with him once she gets the results. She can and has given some of the tests herself countless times including IQ tests and she already has a pretty good idea of what is wrong but she says we need that paper trail and she's right. She lives an hour away but this week is spring break and we are going to see her so she can talk to ds herself. I've already scanned and sent her some examples of his school work to look over.

 

I think you are right about my dh. I can tell it's a sore spot with him. When he talks about when he was a kid and he was just like ds he says it's cause he didn't care. I asked why he didn't care and he said because my parent didn't so why should I have :sad: In my eyes I see it as somewhat of a good thing because if you know what the problem is then you can fix it. He on the other hand sees it as meaning our kid has some kind of terrible defect .

 

He had a regular eye exam in the fall and he was 20/15. This may sound stupid but developmental ophthalmologists test tracking skills and stuff like that right? I don't even know if my insurance would pay for it but wouldn't someone with poor tracking or eye issues have problems with sports? Sports is just about the only thing ds is excelling at right now. That is also the only thing that has continued to improve since last year

instead of getting worse and worse. I'm sure they check more then that but he can hit the mess out of a 50mph ball, pitch strikes and catch fly balls all of

of which require hand eye coordination, tracking and focus. At least my ds has one thing to make himself feel good, because he comes home from school calling himself stupid :(

[PeterPan]

Well it sounds like you couldn't ask for a more ideal situation with how you're getting the testing done. That will be exciting for you to get the results.

 

You know your dh's father could have had the same problem...

 

It's a developmental optometrist, not opthamologist. A developmental optometrist can do a regular exam (like he had last fall) or a full developmental exam. As you are saying, a developmental exam is going to look at how his eyes converge, focus, track, his depth perception, visual processing, etc. etc. What I'm suggesting is that you get the *regular* exam, which your insurance should cover, but do it with a good developmental optometrist. They will *screen* for some extra things. If there's no indication, then you have no need of the full developmental exam. I had them do a regular exam on my ds, where they screened him, and he doesn't need VT right now. However it gives them a baseline and there were some things they wanted to watch. In your case, I would get that regular exam with screening by the developmental optometrist when your insurance is ready to pay for the new exam (in the fall, whatever).

 

BTW, did they give him correction for that 20/15? I had *2* optometrists not correct my dd's eyes before the developmental optometrist finally did. (shaking head)

 

How exciting he has this strong point of sports!! You really can't extrapolate much. I mean sure, if you have convergence insufficiency and your eyes are focusing the object before it comes to you, you'll be ducking thinking the ball is hitting you. But there are lots of facets of vision development. I'm not even saying he has that going on. It's just one of those things to have *checked* kwim? If it is, you want to know. If it's not, then it's checked off the list. And doing it via a screening by the developmental optometrist as part of that regular yearly vision exam is just the easiest, most economical way.

[Pen]

My son was having problems many of which overlap what you describe--but much more severe. I started using materials that were supposed to help with dyslexic children and saw a turn around. Someday he may need an official diagnosis (say for extra time on tests at college level), but for now knowing that the dyslexia-friendly curriculum materials are what work for him is enough--and I can spend the money on the helpful materials rather than on testing. That said, if I'd been wrong, then I could have spent a lot on wrong materials, as some pp posts report...if, say, what was really going on was some auditory processing problem (but he was at least basically screened for that by his pediatrician and that did not seem to be the problem).

QUOTE]

 

I don't want to go astray from the OP's issue, or give Pen a hard time in any way, but I'm just jumping in for clarification on this point because of our own difficult history...A pediatrician cannot in anyway screen for an auditory processing disorder. A speech language pathologist may pick up signs but they can't exactly screen for this either. Only an audiologist will be able to diagnose an auditory processing disorder. And among audiologists, it's really important to find someone with experience with processing disorders, not just hearing impairments. Kids with CAPD have normal hearing. My dd has normal hearing, "passed" an auditory processing screening with a local audiologist, and wasn't diagnosed with CAPD until she had a full CAP evaluation at a children's hospital where they were very familiar with CAPD. There are different types of CAPD and specific testing with specialized equipment is necessary to cover all the bases. Finally getting the right diagnosis has made a world of difference for us.

 

Hoping for the best for the OP and Pen, too. :grouphug:

 

Hmmm. Thank you. I'm not taking it as being given a hard time, but want to clarify back again, and also in case another experience and view helps OP, because something in the auditory realm is conceivably an issue for OP's son, as it was conceivably so for mine. Possibly "basically screened" was not the best word choice--I was looking for a word that would mean something less than full testing and evaluation, but that helped guide what areas to pursue for further testing and evaluation...what word would you use for what I mean?

 

Perhaps, also, not everything is the same in all cases or places, or perhaps even individuals, or facilities, perhaps. My recollection is that our physician was able to give preliminary, ah, something, useful steering [what is the word...if not "screening"?] that would help with knowing what direction was needed for further testing and evaluation, and, with regard to auditory processing, it included questions such as whether information could be gotten well by auditory means (generally, yes); it also included more specific testing with headphones to listen to words, and then, as I recall, ds was supposed to point to a picture that indicated what word was heard--such as "cat" vs. "bat" and so forth, where the sounds are similar and take discriminating between in ways that children with APD typically have difficulties, and apparently also there was something about how the sounds were presented, as in right, left or both together ears--and which is as I understand it, the beginnings of what audiologists also would look at. There was also at bm school, ah, something, they called it "testing" which involved following series of oral directions, determining which ear was dominant, and so on. It is not necessarily the case that there is nothing going on in APD areas, but the indications were that they were certainly not the main avenues to pursue at that time.

 

The reality is that, what I am calling testing and evaluation [?] can be a huge open-ended area-- if there is no way to have some preliminary idea of what is likely.

 

It is very very good that the OP seems to have a relative who will be able to help steer things [screening, testing, evaluation, whatever word is correct here] in the right direction. And since it looks like OP may be getting the help from the ps system, I want to clarify that I was not unhappy with the help I got from the ps. It was very limited, but it gave the basics of what was needed at the time in terms of both evaluation and assistance. It certainly gave something which in OP's case would be valuable, namely confirmation of an LD rather than, say, laziness.

 

In the area where I live, unlike OP's, ps is legally required to offer evaluations to homeschoolers whose parents request that--but it is known that the evaluation is not anywhere near as detailed as what a private NeuroPsych eval. can be. I am actually surprised to hear that this is not true in all US states ( I guess I've assumed that OP is in USA)--I would have thought it would have been federal education law that governed this, but glad for OP that it was discovered at a time when ds would still have access to the ps evaluation help. Also it sounds like maybe once OP has gotten what ps can provide that if more is needed perhaps the private insurance would then help.

 

 

:grouphug: to all.

[Pen]

...I'm hoping with the knowledge that they don't have to treat him no matter what they find and my Aunts help we can get the right tests. She is the one in her school who takes tests results and helps come up with a plan of action so she knows what tests he needs. She can also work with him once she gets the results. She can and has given some of the tests herself countless times including IQ tests and she already has a pretty good idea of what is wrong but she says we need that paper trail and she's right. She lives an hour away but this week is spring break and we are going to see her so she can talk to ds herself. I've already scanned and sent her some examples of his school work to look over.

 

What does she think it is?

 

I think you are right about my dh. I can tell it's a sore spot with him. When he talks about when he was a kid and he was just like ds he says it's cause he didn't care. I asked why he didn't care and he said because my parent didn't so why should I have :sad: In my eyes I see it as somewhat of a good thing because if you know what the problem is then you can fix it. He on the other hand sees it as meaning our kid has some kind of terrible defect .

 

...At least my ds has one thing to make himself feel good, because he comes home from school calling himself stupid :(

 

For sure if it is dyslexia, and probably for other things also, there are now a lot of books at least one DVD I know of, and so forth, that can help people understand that it is not a terrible defect and not a matter of being stupid. Also some parents find after their children get figured out that they have had the same problem, and once they realize that it can sometimes help the parent a lot too.

[Tiramisu]

 

Hmmm. Thank you. I'm not taking it as being given a hard time, but want to clarify back again, and also in case another experience and view helps OP, because something in the auditory realm is conceivably an issue for OP's son, as it was conceivably so for mine. Possibly "basically screened" was not the best word choice--I was looking for a word that would mean something less than full testing and evaluation, but that helped guide what areas to pursue for further testing and evaluation...what word would you use for what I mean?

 

Perhaps, also, not everything is the same in all cases or places, or perhaps even individuals, or facilities, perhaps. My recollection is that our physician was able to give preliminary, ah, something, useful steering [what is the word...if not "screening"?] that would help with knowing what direction was needed for further testing and evaluation, and, with regard to auditory processing, it included questions such as whether information could be gotten well by auditory means (generally, yes); it also included more specific testing with headphones to listen to words, and then, as I recall, ds was supposed to point to a picture that indicated what word was heard--such as "cat" vs. "bat" and so forth, where the sounds are similar and take discriminating between in ways that children with APD typically have difficulties, and apparently also there was something about how the sounds were presented, as in right, left or both together ears--and which is as I understand it, the beginnings of what audiologists also would look at. There was also at bm school, ah, something, they called it "testing" which involved following series of oral directions, determining which ear was dominant, and so on. It is not necessarily the case that there is nothing going on in APD areas, but the indications were that they were certainly not the main avenues to pursue at that time.

 

The reality is that, what I am calling testing and evaluation [?] can be a huge open-ended area-- if there is no way to have some preliminary idea of what is likely.

 

It is very very good that the OP seems to have a relative who will be able to help steer things [screening, testing, evaluation, whatever word is correct here] in the right direction. And since it looks like OP may be getting the help from the ps system, I want to clarify that I was not unhappy with the help I got from the ps. It was very limited, but it gave the basics of what was needed at the time in terms of both evaluation and assistance. It certainly gave something which in OP's case would be valuable, namely confirmation of an LD rather than, say, laziness.

 

In the area where I live, unlike OP's, ps is legally required to offer evaluations to homeschoolers whose parents request that--but it is known that the evaluation is not anywhere near as detailed as what a private NeuroPsych eval. can be. I am actually surprised to hear that this is not true in all US states ( I guess I've assumed that OP is in USA)--I would have thought it would have been federal education law that governed this, but glad for OP that it was discovered at a time when ds would still have access to the ps evaluation help. Also it sounds like maybe once OP has gotten what ps can provide that if more is needed perhaps the private insurance would then help.

 

 

:grouphug: to all.

 

Thank you for your gracious response. :grouphug:

 

After reading your description, I would agree that what you described--all of it together, the physician's testing and the school's testing taken as a whole--does seem cover what a "screening" for auditory processing would cover. It definitely appears comparable to what the audiologist did for dd's "screening." I've never heard of such detailed testing being done outside of an audiologist's office. So maybe SLP's do it, too, and I never knew. Hmmm. Thank you for this.

 

As I said in my earlier post, dd was "screened" as in being tested by means of the procedures you described and "passed" the screening even though she was later found to have CAPD, when she had a full evaluation. I think the reason for this is that she had one unusual out-of-range score in the results and because of the atypical nature of the score when everything else was fine, the audiologist must have decided it wasn't significant or relevant. A more experienced audiologist would probably not have made that mistake and would have looked further. That one score was a big clue as to the precise nature of dd's type of CAPD, which does in fact have an atypical presentation, as in the opposite dominance of what is normal for her type. It was tricky to figure out because dd never had language/phonics/pronunciation/spelling problems. She just seemed to not be able to follow directions, seemed confused, disconnected, in her own world. It's no wonder people can think this is ADD. I may have even thought of something like HFA if she hadn't been so highly sensitive to the people around her. She may not have always picked up their words correctly, but she never missed their tone of voice, mood, body language, and that kind of thing.

 

So, I guess the thing is, which is true of all types of evaluations, if it doesn't seem right to you, keep going if you need to. It took us five years after the initial screening to get the right answer because I lamely accepted the first audiologist's assessment and her statement that "If it's not CAPD, it's ADD" against my gut instinct and better judgment.

 

Hope of all of this helps someone.:grouphug:

[Pen]

 

...

So, I guess the thing is, which is true of all types of evaluations, if it doesn't seem right to you, keep going if you need to. It took us five years after the initial screening to get the right answer because I lamely accepted the first audiologist's assessment and her statement that "If it's not CAPD, it's ADD" against my gut instinct and better judgment.

 

Hope of all of this helps someone.:grouphug:

 

Yeah...those are important...to keep going if you need to and to check in with gut instinct and better judgment! :iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I'm sorry it took you 5 years to figure it out...(and I'll keep that in mind for the future for my son if the work based on the dyslexia-ish idea gets bogged down). :grouphug:

 

And um what does SLP stand for? If something like solo practioner, ours isn't, he is part of a huge enormous group, so maybe they have more equipment available. Also he has an obvious speech difference from most people, I assume he himself must have been 2E in some sense, though I never asked details as it does not seem polite, but he may be more attuned to such matters than a doctor who never had a some personal experience with something that could be related. Oh, I just realized SLP must be Speech Language Pathologist. Oops.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Pen

[CLBMom]

What does she think it is?

 

She said some kind if visual sequential memory problem and dysgraphia. Thats from my

description of him.

[CLBMom]

Oh good! Now a few things. IF you have the money or insurance coverage, you're likely to get a BETTER eval and more thorough help if you go privately rather than the schools. You can make the school eval work, but just saying. Two, you are correct in your guess that one on one can make a HUGE difference with these kids. There *is* a place for school. The structure of school can be very good for some kids with SN. But for some kids the one-on-one component of homeschooling is invaluable. And just remember, if you go privately, rather than through the ps, you have the chance to find someone who is not going to be ANTAGONISTIC to homeschooling. Our np was neutral but said that in our case it was working out very well and to keep going. I asked him point blank if she would be better off in school, and he said no, that she really was doing better with the small groups and one-on-one.

 

The people I've talked with who got their evals through the ps either didn't get all the tests they needed done and all the results, or they got the scores and no help on applying them. If you can afford to go privately, I would. Our np was AMAZING. The advice he gave me and the time he spent going through every single subject was invaluable. I know your relative will help you. I'm just suggesting you look into private if it's an option. ;)

 

As far as handling your dh, well here's something to chew on. *Often* these issues are coming from one of the parents. Not all the time, but it can happen. So then you're dealing with that parent's memories of how *he* handled the problems and how he thinks the *dc* should respond, kwim? And sometimes looking back his perspective was different from being in it. And sometimes the dc has a more severe presentation than the parent. So you can have a parent who got by with his problem (suck up, make it work) and a kid who isn't going to be able to get by, no matter what. Could be the same problem but a more severe presentation. You know it took me a YEAR to come to terms with the labels they were talking about for my dd, a full year. Give him time. Absolutely do the testing, but let it work out slowly. He may need to see the results from the changes before he understands and can accept the reasons for the changes, kwim? And when you get the test results, you'll assuredly make changes.

 

It takes time to get these evals. Like it can take 1-4 months to get into the neuropsych and another month to get the results. In the meantime, think about getting his eyes checked. You can just do a regular exam, but do it with a *developmental* optometrist, not a regular one. You go to COVD to find them. Get a good one. They'll screen for some extra things that could be affecting his school work. Sometimes it's part of the mix. A good eye exam never hurts anything, and it could turn up something. It's something you can do now, while you wait to get into the neuropsych.

 

Keep us posted on how it goes! :)

 

I'm afraid that our insurance doesn't cover what they deem the PS responsibility. So the NP is not going to happen at least not anytime soon :( I have a permant back injury and had to quit work last summer . It's all we can do to pay the mortgage and I've called around and complete NP work up runs between $1200 & $1500 depending on if you want copies of the reports. My parents picked up and payed the kids school this year but they took out a loan to do so and are on a fixed income. Hsing seems to be our best option even if ds10 didn't have issues.

 

 

We also have dd8 who is making straight A's and doesn't seem to have any problems. Her handwriting is much better then ds10 and her writing skills are just as good, starting to get better. Then there is ds4 who is in K4. He has done wonderfully socially but is struggling academically. He was just starting to write letters legibly when he broke his right (dominant) arm and was in a cast for 2 months. He quickly learned to write with his left but since he got the cast removed he can't seem to decide which hand to use and neither are legible other then his name. I've inquired to his teacher a few times about how the only letters he knows are those in his name and she always said he was doing fine. Well last week she emails me saying he's at risk for failing K4 umm.....i've been asking about this and here it is two months from the end of school and you just notice!? We have done extra activities with him since then and he now recognizes 14 letters consistently. We did in one week what they couldn't do in over 7 months. Figure that :glare: I refuse to worry more about him right now he is a young 4 with an August birthday and I honestly think he just isn't ready for somethings. But I will be teaching him to read next year. Being as I don't have a lot of $ to work with I'm scared of buying a bunch of stuff and it just not working. Especially for ds10 and ds4 reading. So any suggestions or btdt stories you have please share :) . Thank you ladies for all the help and support

[MomatHWTK]

Free reading resources:

http://www.donpotter.net/ed.htm

[Pen]

We also have dd8 who is making straight A's and doesn't seem to have any problems. Her handwriting is much better then ds10 and her writing skills are just as good, starting to get better. Then there is ds4 who is in K4. He has done wonderfully socially but is struggling academically. He was just starting to write letters legibly when he broke his right (dominant) arm and was in a cast for 2 months. He quickly learned to write with his left but since he got the cast removed he can't seem to decide which hand to use and neither are legible other then his name. I've inquired to his teacher a few times about how the only letters he knows are those in his name and she always said he was doing fine. Well last week she emails me saying he's at risk for failing K4 umm.....i've been asking about this and here it is two months from the end of school and you just notice!? We have done extra activities with him since then and he now recognizes 14 letters consistently. We did in one week what they couldn't do in over 7 months. Figure that :glare: I refuse to worry more about him right now he is a young 4 with an August birthday and I honestly think he just isn't ready for somethings. But I will be teaching him to read next year. Being as I don't have a lot of $ to work with I'm scared of buying a bunch of stuff and it just not working. Especially for ds10 and ds4 reading. So any suggestions or btdt stories you have please share :) . Thank you ladies for all the help and support

 

Well, in general, after my experiences, I'm not inclined to go with the Wait and See approach...but still, 4yrs really is young. It seems like you are right not to worry and assume he is not ready for many things yet, whether or not he turns out to have some similar issues to 10yr old.

 

You may be able to get much of what you need for all 3 from public libraries--especially all the literature, history and so on. Our library has declassified much of what used to be Reference materials that could only be used in the library to regular borrowable status which is nice (because the internet has replaced much of the need for older real books). I think things like math don't work well from the library because of the need to keep renewing and because they cannot be written in, but many subjects work fairly well from the library, and math has MEP which is available free online...well not exactly free given the cost of toner, but anyway something like that is possible for any child it fits. We are using MUS as our main math because it fits my son's reading and writing issues, but MEP looked good to me. ETA and there is Khan Academy online which is free, and has some grade 3 Singapore math as well as many other things that may at least fit dd, and perhaps some of the needs of ds10 (ds4 currently too young for it).

 

Since you have 3, you can also consider programs that might work for all. For example, even though it is initially expensive, IEW's TWSS for writing might be very cost effective for you in the long run as you could use it with all 3 and if you got the SWI, it allows copying for multiple children in the same family.

 

Also check what you can get at your local public school or perhaps via what their aunt might have access to. I think I'd wait and see what the aunt finds and can help get before investing in materials specific to the reading/writing issues. Then, maybe with that information post again here for more ideas.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Pen