Do college classes taken in high school cripple the college student?

[Laura K (NC)]

I remember trying to take physics in college. It was such a foreign language to me I just couldn't do it because I wasn't suitably prepared in high school. I'm worried that something like this will happen to my boys, so I am not just trying to get their transcript to look good, I'm trying to get them prepared for anything a college will throw at them.

 

Did any of your graduated homeschoolers find that AP or community college classes were not suitable prerequisites for other college classes? Like, if they took AP or community college calculus, could they go on to Calculus 2 in college without trouble? If they took a higher science in community college, was the science really comparable to the science they would take at the college of their choice?

 

Having taken freshmen-level classes at a huge university (Ohio State) with hundreds of students and so many Teaching Assistants in charge rather than professors, I can see how a community college course would be an advantage if the class size was smaller and the professor was a mature teacher. OTOH, I also went to a small liberal arts college where the freshman level classes were taught by older professors with doctorates (which is the ideal, imo).

 

Did any of your children repeat classes in college for which they got dual-enrollment credit in high school, in order to give them a more substantial grounding in a subject that will be important for their major?

[Kelli in TN]

Laura,

I have no BTDT for you, but my daughter starts her first dual enrollment class in a couple of weeks. I have told her that it's fine if she repeats any of these classes at university. If she does well enough to jump to the next level that's fine. If not, that's fine too. Either way I don't think it's a waste for her to do this now.

 

How about that answer for a non-answer?

[hsmamainva]

My oldest is about to start her second year at the community college and it's been a wonderful experience for her! She loved her first year! She had wonderful professors and met some really great kids. And she learned sooo many things that will be valuable, whether she is given college credit for them or not at a 4 year university.

 

She learned how to take notes during a lecture! That's something that *I*, as a homeschool mom, don't do. She knew how to take notes out of a text, but I don't stand in front of her for two hours, talking, while she takes notes. She learned how to do that at the cc when she took US History.

 

She learned how to manage her own schedule and turn assignments in on time without mom! I would print out a schedule of her assignments and hand them to her, but it's not the same as figuring out a class syllabus and being responsible for turning everything in on time without being reminded.

 

She would agree with me that those are the two 'best things' she learned while taking cc classes in high school.

 

I also think that those cc credits, and the independent transcript to go with it, will look better to a college admissions officer than "Mom gave me an A in US History in 11th grade".

[Jenn in CA]

Don't have experience w/my kids yet, my oldest is 15, but I took AP's in high school and they did *not* prepare me for college. Specifically I took AP French, tested into 2nd year French in college (UCLA, big uncaring classes) and couldn't handle it, had to drop. I also took AP English Lang, tested out of freshman English and really struggled w/the next level class.

 

DH, OTOH, took community college physics & calculus and was much more prepared for UCLA, had A's right off the bat. The instruction was a lot better at CC because 1)classes are smaller, 2) teachers only teach & aren't doing research, 3)don't take this the wrong way, but CC students in general are not as high-level as at your top uni, so the teachers work a lot harder to help them learn and prepare them to transfer.

 

Last comment isn't a slam at all, because DH teaches community college Physics now and bends over backwards to prepare his students for the 4-year school. The big school attitude toward freshmen is "sink or swim."

 

A comment about "equivalency" of difficulty. He would admit that the first-year physics class he teaches is not as difficult as the first-year physics class at say UCLA. BUT, he teaches the fundamentals a lot better than at UCLA, where the prof is more likely to assume you grasp the fundamentals quickly and want to have more challenging stuff right away. A student in his CC class would be very prepared to handle upper-level physics with the strong CC foundation. (and he's gotten great feedback from former students who went on to Berkeley & Davis)

 

The drawback of college classes is your grade/transcript is permanent and you can't hide it. AP, however, you don't have to show your test score to the college if you do poorly. But as far as actual college preparation, CC wins over AP.

[Renee in NC]

I also think it depends on the community college. Ours is TERRIBLE and I can't imagine someone going on to a 4 year school with success. I am sure they do, but it must be a struggle for many. My dh took classes over the last 3 years or so, and the majority were an absolute joke. His US History course was reading, answering multiple choice questions, and then having those same multiple choice questions on the tests. The only class that required substantial writing was English - no papers in any other classes (or many essay tests for that matter!)

[Anne/Ankara]

Do college classes taken in high school cripple the college student?

QUOTE]

 

My attitude is that you can't go wrong by carefully selecting the appropriately challenging courses for your students, no matter whether they get credit for it or not. So, in that case, a college class taken in high school needn't cripple a student at all! Many, many high school students are ready and able to take university-level classes before age 18.

 

Now, choosing the approprite class can be daunting! Here is where you need to study your options carefully, since many community colleges are better than universities, and many AP classes done in high school are better than community colleges. But how a particular student chooses a plan of study can vary tremendously, given the options in the area, the finances involved, other children in the family, long term goals of the student, etc.

 

I think there is no "one size fits all" choice here, since there are so many variables!

[Ellie]

We did community college instead of high school, so *all* of dds' maths were taken there. They both did Alg. 1 and 2 and Statistics; since these were college-level maths, not high school-level maths, I would expect them to be able to do higher level maths with no problems because of lack of foundation.

[Gwen in VA]

Colleges don't want students to have academic problems. If the students take longer than four years to finish or if they drop out, that affects the college's statistics and makes the college look bad.

 

Your student's freshman advisor will have plenty of opinions on what are good classes considering his/her background.

 

For example, at the college where my two oldest are going to, if a student gets a 5 on the AP chemistry exam, they automatically get 6 credits of lab science. (This will exempt my ds from the lab science requirement -- hurrah!)

 

HOWEVER, if the student is actually going to major in science or if he is going pre-med and needs to take further courses in chemistry, the student will need to take the freshman chemistry course -- even though the student has already received 6 credits of credit for it!!!!!

 

I would take the most challenging courses that your child is interested in and worry about college credit when you get there. I think that at most schools a student can redo a course that he/she got AP or cc credit for. A student is not obligated to "use" prior credits. (The student then may lose the credits he received earlier, but presumably that doesn't matter!)

[Rhondabee]

I went to a small, liberal arts college - not a huge university; and I exempted both Calculus and Freshman English.

 

Because Calculus completely fulfilled ALL my math requirements for my degree, I went ahead and exempted it even though I only made a 3 on the test. I know I would have been in big trouble had I needed to take anything further!!!!

 

But, in English I passed the exam with a 5, and went on to make A's in Sophomore English. I was the only freshman to do so, and had friends who had not done as well on the AP test become really upset that they were suddenly "B Students".

 

I think both AP classes were very valuable to me, and I'm very glad I took them. I would have been glad even if I hadn't been able to exempt anything! But, I really think you'll be fine exempting as long as your score is high (5 used to be the highest score - not sure how it is now). If not, at least an AP class is probably better preparation than a normal class.

 

The other pitfall some of my high school friends made was taking *all* AP Classes senior year. None of them scored high enough on any test to exempt anything, and they were very stressed all year.

 

:001_smile:

Rhonda

[Chris in VA]

I don't know, but I just wanted to say

I'm a Buckeye, too!

 

How's that for an incredibly mature response?

Think there's a Brutus emoticon?

[Laura K (NC)]

Go Buckeyes!

 

[BeckyFL]

My ds had taken College Algebra and aced it. He tried to sign up for the next class (at the same college, actually) and was really struggling. The teacher finally told me that this was always a problem with students who had had the orig. College Alg. teacher. We dropped the advanced class. It ended up that the 4 year college/major he chose didn't require more than College Alg, but it would have been sad for an engineering student!

[Carrie in NC]

I'm sure it depends on the community college. In NC the community colleges all have a "university transfer" track and are generally pretty good. The community college courses offered for university transfer are overseen by the University of North Carolina system and use the same books and syllabus as those offered at the universities. I know a dozen or more students who have taken cc classes in the university transfer program, and I've never heard anyone say they needed to retake the course at the university, or were unprepared for the next level class. I have had students tell me they were thankful to have taken some of the courses at the cc where they had smaller classes and more individual attention.

 

The son of a friend got a list of recommended classes from NC State University to take at the community college before transferring into their engineering program. He took those classes, which included 3 semesters of calculus and two semesters of physics, and transferred straight into Mechanical Engineering. This spring he graduated Summa Cum Laude from the NC State Engineering school. I would say that, in his case, the cc classes did a good job of preparing him for the university!

 

My daughter just graduated Magna Cum Laude from NC State this spring with a degree in history after doing one year at a private college and three semesters at community college.

[Laura K (NC)]

Thanks especially, Carrie. This information about the NC system is even more than I had hoped for! I was wary of the classes my kids might take in community college that would work toward their major, especially if they were in math/engineering/science. I'm very glad to know that it has been done successfully.

[LoriM]

My daughter earned her AA last summer, and has since completed her first year at the local university. She has maintained a 4.0 average throughout her college coursework so far.

 

BUT...

 

She did deliberately "wait" to take her major coursework at the university. (Edited to say: The exception to that is that she took Calculus 1 at the CC, then Calc 2-3 and Linear Algebra (thus far) at ECU.) She took the general education coursework that satisfied the "extra" parts of two degrees, and now is taking specifically major courses in art and math (with only about 4-5 electives tossed in over four years) from experts in her fields.

 

And I think she'd be the first to say that her CC experience was rigorous and definitely prepared her for the writing intensive courses she has in her majors. Plus, she also approaches all college and university coursework much the same way she did homeschooling...as a lifelong learner who plans to continue study even when there is no grade at risk, but in the meantime meeting requirements successfully and applying herself diligently in all things.

 

Now if only she would also get a JOB...

[Laura K (NC)]

I think about her and her university from time to time. My 13yo son has been taking computer animation classes and will take a few "honors" art classes this summer through the public school system. I remember your daughter's amazing Alice in Wonderland art that you posted some months ago.

[LoriM]

I think about her and her university from time to time. My 13yo son has been taking computer animation classes and will take a few "honors" art classes this summer through the public school system. I remember your daughter's amazing Alice in Wonderland art that you posted some months ago.

 

Here are some of her pieces from the spring...

 

http://s166.photobucket.com/albums/u86/Ginevra25_Weasley/

 

She did several self-portraits in Figure Drawing, and then lots of 3-D art in Design II.

[Lisa in TN]

My dd's classes at the community college were a positive experience for her. The enrollment tended to be small, allowing for more individual attention from the professors, and she learned things that she would have been less likely to master at home, such as how to take notes during a lecture. She developed strong relationships with some of the professors, who wrote letters of recommendation for her.

 

Her university did accept some of the credits in transfer, but she did not use any of these credits to bypass freshman-level courses. Still, she found the university courses to be more rigorous and demanding than the ones at the community college. Had she not taken the cc classes, she probably would have had an even tougher time adapting to the rigor of the university.

[ilovebooks2]

Some colleges might not accept AP courses as college credit. My daughter wants to go to the AFA and she was told that while AP courses in high school will help her GPA (as in a more weighted grade point average), they will not credit her with the class on a college level. Maybe because they are military they want you to take every course from them? I don't know the exact reasoning but maybe that is it.

 

So, if you want them to take classes at a community college to get a feel for college or you want to challenge them with a harder class, then go for it. But if you want to have those courses counted at a college after they graduate high school, I would check with whatever college they are interested in attending and see what courses would translate into that school's credits.

[Staci in CT]

The thing is, it really varies from college to college. They all say to take the most challenging courses available in areas that interest you. And certainly college level courses help an applicant to look better when applying.

 

My daughter's experience so far has been that her AP classes were more difficult and demanding than her university classes (taken as a high schooler). The particular university at which she takes classes is quite middling and the student body reflects that. AP classes tend to be populated by ambitious over-achievers who love to participate and truly learn.

 

Also, credit transfers vary considerably. For example, Kenyon lets you transfer credit but you still must take 8 semesters of full-time classes on their campus. So maybe you can graduate with a double major, but not necessarily any sooner. Rhodes College won't accept any other college's science classes. Denison is very much like Washington & Lee where you can receive credits, but not use them to fulfill your major or general education requirements. Each private school is quite particular about accepting transfer credits from freshman.

 

So, in answer to your original query regarding, "Can they be prepared for upper level work," I say it likely depends on the course and the child's aptitude for the material. This quite likely applies to both first year university and AP level courses, because, they are supposed to be the same thing.

 

HTH,

Staci

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

 

Did any of your children repeat classes in college for which they got dual-enrollment credit in high school, in order to give them a more substantial grounding in a subject that will be important for their major?

 

My ds's school (Wabash) gives credit only after the student takes and passes with a B the "following" class. Ds got credit for his calculus AP after he took multivariable something or other, and econ credits (macro and micro) after he took his his sophomore econ. History credit, ditto. Physics C after sophomore level physics, etc. Didn't matter what his score was on the AP test, no credit until you demonstrate that you don't need to repeat the class. So it's a big risk taking the next classes. The AP score was decent verification of content though, unlike, I would imagine, a community college class because of lack of standardization.