How do you TEACH what your kids don't want to learn?

[Shelly in VA]

My teens do what I ask them to do. Just what I ask them to do. (Actually, in fairness, it isn't both my teens, just the oldest, who is a junior this year.) For example, "Read ch. 7 in your chemistry book" is met with yep, I read chapter 7, but upon further questioning, she took NO notes, she can't tackle the homework without significant help, she did not memorize terms, etc. So, I'm thinking teen rebellion (this is her way to have some control), or maybe she just doesn't feel 'recognized' for her academic work or something since she isn't in a class. Whatever it is, though, I am pulling my hair out. And I am yelling, and screaming, and very ineffectively acting like a shrew. Because she needs to do her work. Dh says to just let it slide, and she'll have consequences when she gets to college; while I understand his pov, I think that is a mistake. Not that the childish temper tantrums I throw are the right approach. ;)

 

Any suggestions? This isn't what high school was supposed to look like! I'm supposed to be enjoying my teens at this point, right?!!!

 

Thanks.

[regentrude]

What helps for my kids is to discuss WHY they need to learn certain things, and why they should work a specific way. For the most parts, things are going fairly well, but every now and then we have small issues. We frequently discuss their goals for college, the admissions requirements, their plans for their majors, the subjects they will need to be taking. We discuss why they need to take certain subjects in high school. For example, chemistry is not very beloved in our house - but DD knows that Chem 1 at the university is a challenging class and that chem in high school will be very helpful.

We talk about why they need to take notes, why problems need to be worked and written down carefully - and we let her experience what happens when she is cutting corners. While I completely agree with you that one can not let things slide and reap the consequences in college, smallslipups now are great teaching opportunities: if the example problems in one math section had just been glossed over instead of worked thoroughly, one can not solve the practice problems at the end of the section. If no notes have been taken on the chemistry chapter, one can not do the homework problems. Redoing it takes longer than doing it right the first time. Allowing DD now to experience these small consequences will cement the message so that she does not repeat these shortcuts in college.

In addition, we frequently talk about strategies of successful college students and shortcomings of failing students. The kids hear me bring stories home from work all the time.

We also add some dual enrollment classes. DD is completely in charge of her French class. That means also things like checking for assignments and due dates, preparing for tests, organizing her time. I stay out of it completely. She successfully navigated a few smaller mishaps and has learned her lesson... much better than any lecture from me would have accomplished.

 

So, maybe your teen needs to experience the consequences at a small scale - so she sees herself that it is quicker to do it correctly the first time, that taking notes helps, that working problems is needed. Are you giving tests? What are consequences for not doing work? Does she care about her grades? Does she have plans for college? Does she see the connection between the work she is doing now and her future studies?

[HomeScholar]

:iagree:

 

To everything there are consequences and kids sometimes have to learn that the hard way. As a parent you don't want them to learn with something that will effect their whole life, but you can't live their lives for them either. Do your best to show them consequences their actions will have, but accept that you can't force them to do it your way (even when common sense dictates that they do).

[Rosie_0801]

What if you said "study chapter seven?" Would they interpret that as "read chapter seven and call it done?"

 

Rosie

[bugs]

The consequences for my child if she gets below a B is either her inability to drive because of higher insurance rates or she pays the difference. She likes neither option.

[MtnTeaching]

My ds is just in the 9th grade, but I have found that I need to give him clear instructions on my expectations i.e.

 

Assignment:

- Read chapter 7

- Take notes in outline (or Cornell) form

- Answer questions 1-12 in complete sentences (or Answer essay questions with a minimum of an 8 sentence paragraph)

- List important vocabulary and definitions

 

I understand that by junior year, you are probably feeling that your teen should probably already understand that this is what is expected. With my son, he just did not know. I also needed to sit down and show him different ways to take notes, then I allowed him to pick a style he felt suited him best.

 

I would rather have the expectations be clear and well practiced before they head off to college. Maybe your dd just needs you to "refresh" those skills with her and to have the expectations laid out for her again.

 

Do you really feel that it is a "rebellious" type of attitude, or is it at all possible that she just does not know what is expected of each assignment?

 

(Just excuse this if you really do believe it is an attitude problem. In that case, I would suggest giving her a toothbrush and having her scrub around her brother's toilet as an adjustment exercise.;))

[BlsdMama]

Some kids are not super stars. They'll do what you ask and they are pleasant about it, but just aren't to the moon and back kids. ;) IF this is the case then why not give specific lesson plans? Otherwise, frankly, you might be wrecking what could be a great relationship just because the kiddo isn't academic or on fire for science.

[Gwen in VA]

There are some great suggestions on this thread!

 

One more -- online classes.

 

Sometimes a kid needs to learn from someone other than Mom. Boys especially may need to be responsible to someone other than Mom for their work. My boys would work much harder for a "real" grade in someone else's class than they would for me.

 

Also, like in any classes, online classes give grades and have averages. All my kids wanted to be "above average"; the competition spurred them on to work much harder than they would have otherwise.

 

For our first online classes, we specifically chose subjects that I was not interested in teaching and the kids were not interested in learning. Much to my surprise, the combination of camaraderie and competition sparked my kids to new academic heights.

[Mommyfaithe]

For us, I need to be specific about expectations...extremely specific and lay it all out...in writing.

 

In would NEVER just say "read chapter 7", because I would get the same result.

 

It would say:

Read Chapter 7

Outline each section...make sure to include most important points.

Copy each bold vocabulary word and write the definition

Memorize the vocabulary

Copy diagram 1a into your notebook and label. Make sure to color neatly

 

Do lab 7b....fill out lab report according to worksheet

 

Etc. Etc. Etc...ad nauseum.......because THIS is how they learn to work a text. They DO NOT KNOW how to study until they are taught step by step.....

[regentrude]

For us, I need to be specific about expectations...extremely specific and lay it all out...in writing.

 

In would NEVER just say "read chapter 7", because I would get the same result.

 

It would say:

Read Chapter 7

Outline each section...make sure to include most important points.

Copy each bold vocabulary word and write the definition

Memorize the vocabulary

Copy diagram 1a into your notebook and label. Make sure to color neatly

 

Do lab 7b....fill out lab report according to worksheet

 

Etc. Etc. Etc...ad nauseum.......because THIS is how they learn to work a text. They DO NOT KNOW how to study until they are taught step by step.....

:iagree:esp with the bolded.

OTOH, the OP is talking about a student in Junior year. I'd think by that point the student should have learned to do the above when instructed to "read the section". I do not think one should still have to give these detailed instruction during the third year of high school.

[Mommyfaithe]

:iagree:esp with the bolded.

OTOH, the OP is talking about a student in Junior year. I'd think by that point the student should have learned to do the above when instructed to "read the section". I do not think one should still have to give these detailed instruction during the third year of high school.

 

Me either, but alas, I have to also:001_huh: Seems my kids get " stupid" around 17......and it lasts a while. I also think the content load around the Junior year gets quite difficult, and I end up with lots of "deer in the headlights" looks.

 

Chalk it up to hormones....or other sex distraction....or just plain harder work.....and the foot staring begins....:D

 

I would just rather lay out the expectation, than scream my head off.....lol.

Faithe

[Murphy101]

For us, I need to be specific about expectations...extremely specific and lay it all out...in writing.

 

In would NEVER just say "read chapter 7", because I would get the same result.

 

It would say:

Read Chapter 7

Outline each section...make sure to include most important points.

Copy each bold vocabulary word and write the definition

Memorize the vocabulary

Copy diagram 1a into your notebook and label. Make sure to color neatly

 

Do lab 7b....fill out lab report according to worksheet

 

Etc. Etc. Etc...ad nauseum.......because THIS is how they learn to work a text. They DO NOT KNOW how to study until they are taught step by step.....

 

Yes. This.

 

:iagree:esp with the bolded.

OTOH, the OP is talking about a student in Junior year. I'd think by that point the student should have learned to do the above when instructed to "read the section". I do not think one should still have to give these detailed instruction during the third year of high school.

 

Bless your heart. In the life of parenting teens, there is much difference between *should* and reality. Dern it.:tongue_smilie:

 

Sometimes, that is when they get heartily sick of watching everyone else in their classes get by without doing that and begin to think mom is crazy strict with too high expectations and full of poo and for crying out loud don't you know a C is passing and should be good enough bc it's good enough for those other students?!:glare:

[Murphy101]

Me either, but alas, I have to also:001_huh: Seems my kids get " stupid" around 17......and it lasts a while. I also think the content load around the Junior year gets quite difficult, and I end up with lots of "deer in the headlights" looks.

 

Chalk it up to hormones....or other sex distraction....or just plain harder work.....and the foot staring begins....:D

 

I would just rather lay out the expectation, than scream my head off.....lol.

Faithe

 

You and me both. Sigh. Who would have thought high school would be more exhausting than early elementary? Didn't all the books claim they'd be life long self learners by now?!

[Brenda in MA]

These quotes resonated with me:

 

You and me both. Sigh. Who would have thought high school would be more exhausting than early elementary? Didn't all the books claim they'd be life long self learners by now?!

 

Yes, I agree here. The truth I've found is that some dc are easier to homeschool than others. There are some who can really work almost independently in high school, and then there are some who can't. After all, high school is not college, and there is still a lot of maturing going on during those late teen years.

 

For us, I need to be specific about expectations...extremely specific and lay it all out...in writing.

 

In would NEVER just say "read chapter 7", because I would get the same result.

 

It would say:

Read Chapter 7

Outline each section...make sure to include most important points.

Copy each bold vocabulary word and write the definition

Memorize the vocabulary

Copy diagram 1a into your notebook and label. Make sure to color neatly

 

Do lab 7b....fill out lab report according to worksheet

 

Etc. Etc. Etc...ad nauseum.......because THIS is how they learn to work a text. They DO NOT KNOW how to study until they are taught step by step.....

 

I agree with this, too. What I used to do when I sensed a lot of resistance and possibly lazy study skills was to not only write out my expectations, but also to sit with the student for a chapter or two and model the type of reading/note-taking I expected. Usually, this annoyed the stubborn teen quite a bit, but it was my way of ensuring that he knew exactly what was expected and how to do it. No more excuses, "Well, you didn't say you wanted that!" So if he really didn't know, then he learned, and if he was being stubborn, then he learned that I was serious about the work getting done and about teaching him a good way to do it, and I was willing to invest my precious time in the enterprise. I also had to sometimes give consequences (not seeing friends, no computer time, etc.) so he'd know I was serious about the work getting done.

 

A few times after said stubborn student went off to college, he's casually mentioned in a phone call how he "discovered" that various study techniques I taught him in high school actually work.

 

One more -- online classes.

 

Sometimes a kid needs to learn from someone other than Mom. Boys especially may need to be responsible to someone other than Mom for their work. My boys would work much harder for a "real" grade in someone else's class than they would for me.

 

This has been really true for us as well. Outside teachers motivate some students better than mom. I remember said stubborn student saying to me how, in college, he was so much more motivated than in high school because, "Mom, I knew you'd always love me no matter what kind of work I turned in. But the professors don't care if I pass or fail. I need to work to impress them."

 

I would add to this to consider in-person, outside classes, like CC classes, especially for a student who is 17 yo. Personally, if I had doubts about my child's ability to manage a college class, I would want them to experience a few while they are still at home with me, and I can give them a bit of support at the beginning. 4-yr college is so expensive and such an investment these days, before spending that cash, I'd want some confidence that that student had the skills and work ethic to be successful there. Better you tackle these study skills & work ethic issues now than send the child away to college and have him/her fail there.

 

In the life of parenting teens, there is much difference between *should* and reality. Dern it.:tongue_smilie:

 

Sometimes, that is when they get heartily sick of watching everyone else in their classes get by without doing that and begin to think mom is crazy strict with too high expectations and full of poo and for crying out loud don't you know a C is passing and should be good enough bc it's good enough for those other students?!:glare:

 

I think the best you can do to counter this type of argument is to talk with the student about future goals, as Regentrude said. If the goal is to get into college and succeed there, then just "passing" in high school will not afford the student sufficient preparation to do well in college. It's hard for some kids to think this far ahead because all they can see is the faster I get that assignment done, the sooner I can (choose one: hang out with my friends, play the x-box, etc.). One thing that really motivated said stubborn student was when he went to the career center at the college and was told that the employers look for the students who have a 3.0 GPA or better. He realized that he better keep those grades up if he hoped to find a job at the end of school.

 

So -- yeah -- homeschooling teens can be exhausting, particularly if you're dealing with one who is not super-enthused about academics. In my experience, though, your investment of time/energy now will pay off in the end. I really disagree with those who suggest letting a high school-aged dc flounder and "find themselves". I know a couple of examples IRL, where that approach didn't work, and the dc are bitter young adults stuck in minimum wage jobs because they don't have any marketable skills.

 

Best wishes in those trenches!

Brenda

[elegantlion]

My son is getting ready to read Study is Hard Work. I read it earlier this year and found the very specific recommendations helpful.

 

I have found this area to be a deficit for us in homeschooling. I remember picking up some good study habits by watching others or by how different teachers taught. Ds just has me and he learns differently than me, *sigh*. I've found reading posts by Nan helpful. Somewhere she posted hints on walking through a textbook, steps that were very helpful. I can't find it right now.

[Nan in Mass]

I agree. Sigh. Mine doesn't need a list of what "do this" means for his cc classes because I specifically taught study skills and he spent last semester in cc chem figuring out which bits worked for him, but when it comes to working for me, I have to make a specific list and ask him to check it off. Next year (senior year), he will be doing most of his classes at the cc and just doing history/literature with me. Hopefully he will learn to balance the work load that way. 10th grade we did cc classes just to learn to be in a classroom and worked hard on school-oriented study skills. 11th we did a few harder ones to learn how to apply that information. In 12th, he will hopefully learn how to use those skills for something closer to a full workload of classes. He still won't have a full load, but it will be close. The idea is to ramp slowly up. The first step, though, was to teach those skills. Like Brenda, I have found that a very good motivator is to insist on sitting and working with him to demonstrate what I want. It also helps me to see what is going wrong and fix it, if it isn't a matter of being reluctant to put in the time and energy.

 

Nan