xpost: When the going gets tough, my kid has a meltdown

[Halcyon]

I am a little frustrated. My younger is advanced/gifted/accelerated (call it what you will), but that's NOT because he's worked hard. Many things, he just "gets". That said, when faced with a challenging math problem (I'm not talking CRAZY challenging, just a bit harder than the usual), he has a meltdown. Crying, saying he can't do it, giving up. This particularly happens with math. He doesn't know how or doesn't want to actually learn, apply himself, try something new. If he doesn't "get it" immediately, he assumes it's beyond him and it's very hard to get him to try a new approach and learn something new. Sometimes it feels like banging my head against a wall--he wants to do things his way almost all the time. I know he's young, but I am not talking about wildly challenging things here. It seems that WHENEVER he's faced with something he deems "too hard", he gives up (and it's not just in math, but rears its head most there).

 

I need advice. :(

[acurtis75]

I've gone through something similar. I'll tell you what I did but it was recent so I don't know that I can say it was successful yet but it's going okay now. I know I discussed this on previous threads but have no idea where or when so I may be repeating myself here..

 

We really hit the wall at division. Dd gets everything almost immediately with very little teaching. Having to think about a problem for more than 10 seconds was a major tragedy for her:lol: there were tears and days full of whining. Finally I decided I couldn't take it anymore and came up with a plan. What I realized in our case was she was capable of the work but just hated it. Stopping math wasn't an option I decided to supplement with LOF and living math books as a reward for better behavior/attitude about her work. We had a "meeting" about math (she's always pretending to have meetings since dh and I have our own business and often meet with clients so she felt cool having a meeting). I explained to her that part of my job as her teacher is to make sure she develops good work habits in addition to learning the content. I told her I understood that she didn't like long division but that I knew she could do the work if she tried her best. I also told her that I would reduce the amount of drill/worksheets if she worked diligently and had a good attitude. This didn't totally eliminate the probleem but it has drastically improved. Also, we started moving through the curriculum about twice as fast because she had incentive to do her best.

 

Our problems are also mostly with math. I see the development of a work ethic and the ability to persevere when things are difficult as one of my most important jobs with dd. I think her being accelerated makes it easy to get in to a pattern of everything being easy and not requiring effort. If I don't challenge her she'll be lazy...kind of like I was in high school.:lol:

 

Edited to correct some creative iPad auto correction.

[poetic license]

Not much advice but :grouphug: I know the feeling, it's really tough to deal with and I don't have much wisdom myself!

 

The oddest thing has helped a tiny bit-- we saw the movie Meet the Robinsons and the main character Lewis is a prodigy who deals with wanting to give up. There's a bit where some other characters are encouraging him and singing "Keep moving forward, keep moving forward..." so when DS gets in one of those "moods" I try to lighten it up by singing in my best falsetto, "keep moving forward, keep moving forward..." It's a good movie, esp for TAG kids even if the trick doesn't work!

[acurtis75]

The oddest thing has helped a tiny bit-- we saw the movie Meet the Robinsons and the main character Lewis is a prodigy who deals with wanting to give up. There's a bit where some other characters are encouraging him and singing "Keep moving forward, keep moving forward..." so when DS gets in one of those "moods" I try to lighten it up by singing in my best falsetto, "keep moving forward, keep moving forward..." It's a good movie, esp for TAG kids even if the trick doesn't work!

 

:lol: I am going to have to use this. Dd loves that movie.

[acurtis75]

One additional thought...

 

After our "meeting" when we started accelerating at a faster pace it became clear that the crying and whining was more about desire than difficulty. She didn't want to do the work and was apparently a bit bored with it. Going faster she actually seems happier.

[Halcyon]

We've never seen it! Thanks--going on to the queue :)

[Halcyon]

I've gone through something similar. I'll tell you what I did but it was recent so I don't know that I can say it was successful yet but it's going okay now. I know I discussed this on previous threads but have no idea where or when so I may be repeating myself here..

 

We really hit the wall at division. Dd gets everything almost immediately with very little teaching. Having to think about a problem for more than 10 seconds was a major tragedy for her:lol: there were tears and days full of whining. Finally I decided I couldn't take it anymore and came up with a plan. What I realized in our case was she was capable of the work but just hated it. Stopping math wasn't an option I decided to supplement with LOF and living math books as a reward for better behavior/attitude about her work. We had a "meeting" about math (she's always pretending to have meetings since dh and I have our own business and often meet with clients so she felt cool having a meeting). I explained to her that part of my job as her teacher is to make sure she develops good work habits in addition to learning the content. I told her I understood that she didn't like long division but that I knew she could do the work if she tried her best. I also told her that I would reduce the amount of drill/worksheets if she worked diligently and had a good attitude. This didn't totally eliminate the probleem but it has drastically improved. Also, we started moving through the curriculum about twice as fast because she had incentive to do her best.

 

Our problems are also mostly with math. I see the development of a work ethic and the ability to persevere when things are difficult as one of my most important jobs with dd. I think her being accelerated makes it easy to get in to a pattern of everything being easy and not requiring effort. If I don't challenge her she'll be lazy...kind of like I was in high school.:lol:

 

Edited to correct some creative iPad auto correction.

 

Thank you. He definitely responds well to me cutting down the number of problems :lol:

[acurtis75]

Thank you. He definitely responds well to me cutting down the number of problems :lol:

 

Incidentally...we are now spending more total time on math but please don't tell dd.:lol: We added cwp and LOF in addition to mathusee but she doesn't mind doing either of them. She asks to do more cwp than I assign. Go figure...the easy word problems in mathusee were too hard according to her but the much more difficult cwp are fun??? She has even started making her own Singapore style problems and giving me pop quizzes.

[boscopup]

We've been doing better lately with the perfectionism thing. When encountering truly challenging problems, DS would freak out and cry. I'm trying to wean him of saying "I'm stuck" every single time he has to think for 2 seconds in order to answer a problem. :tongue_smilie:

 

It has gotten better with maturity and gradually making the work more difficult, plus talking about how we aren't going to get everything right every time. I also make a big deal of pointing out when *I* make a mistake, especially in math. ;) Sometimes DS will get a problem right, and I at first think it's wrong, then I realize that I'm wrong. I point out that I was wrong, and hey look, I'm not upset. I'm laughing at myself. That has helped a lot - just modeling how to deal with not being perfect, and modeling how to think through a difficult problem.

 

Last year was definitely the hardest because he was just starting to accelerate and had been so used to coasting through schoolwork. Not anymore! ;) As I said, he still say he's stuck if he has to think at all, but he's not having a meltdown if he has to think. I will usually say, "Read the problem again and think about it for a minute." Then after he's thought about it, I might read the problem out loud, at which point he usually figures it out. Or if he's still stuck, I'll say, "What operation do we need to do first?" He usually gets it then. Most of the time, he is capable of solving the problem without any real help. He just needs me to help him organize his thoughts.

[Alte Veste Academy]

This is pretty common with gifted kids. They're not used to things being challenging and the slightest thing can become a big deal because they assume that if they don't get it right away, it's too hard. It's fair, really. If you never really had to apply yourself, it's a shock to your system when you do. Hard work and pulling up a chair to work your rear off on a challenge can be innate or it can be the result of a habit. It's not innate in him so help him make it a habit. If you don't already, I would advise you to start profusely complimenting hard work, perseverance, working at a challenge, etc. "I can see how hard you're working on that. I'm proud of you!" "Wow! You spent a long time building that (Lego something or other). You should be really proud of yourself for putting that kind of time and thought into it!" Help him start to see himself as a kid who keeps on keeping on by starting with observations outside of school time and transfer that identity slowly. That's all I've got... :tongue_smilie:

 

Oh, and is he a perfectionist? Because we have gone over and over and over that issue here. :lol: I think DS9 could probably recite about 10 Edison quotes about perseverance by now. :tongue_smilie:

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

:bigear: My ds is the same way but I don't really have any advice. He is like this with school work and other things. He also can't handle any physical discomforts. So far, he is doing work that is below his level, especially in math.

[Donna]

My advice would be to encourage him to learn to play a musical instrument or take up a sport/activity that doesn't come without practice.

 

Learning violin "cured" the early perfectionism in my dd. Even though a lot of music learning comes easily to her, there are some skills/techniques that just require time and practice. She learned that "we practice to make things easier" and sometimes cool things happen when you take a chance and try something new. We have expanded that knowledge to everything else in her life.

 

It may also help for him to see you learn something new that requires practice or trial and error.

[acurtis75]

My advice would be to encourage him to learn to play a musical instrument or take up a sport/activity that doesn't come without practice.

 

Learning violin "cured" the early perfectionism in my dd. Even though a lot of music learning comes easily to her, there are some skills/techniques that just require time and practice. She learned that "we practice to make things easier" and sometimes cool things happen when you take a chance and try something new. We have expanded that knowledge to everything else in her life.

 

It may also help for him to see you learn something new that requires practice or trial and error.

 

Interesting that you mentioned this. I have been reading Extraordinary, Ordinary People by Condeleeza Rice about how her parents raised her. I just told dh last night that one of the main things I have taken away so far is that between piano and ice skating she was forced to be disciplined and work hard even though schoolwork came easy. Apparently she was gifted musically but not so great at ice-skating so that took extra hard work. It also kept her very busy which was helpful since she was in school with people several years older than her. I just pulled up information on piano lessons today.

 

 

Also...I read the responses in the post on the k-8 board and was reminded why I appreciate this accelerated learner board. I know my child and know it is more an issue of laziness than ability so slowing down is not the right answer.

[regentrude]

Is he a perfectionist? And is everything usually coming easy to him?

We had similar things going on with perfectionist DD. For us, instrument lessons worked wonders. In the beginning, she'd run crying from the piano every.single.time. she made a mistake. Nothing teaches frustration tolerance like learning to play an instrument, or maybe a difficult sport.

He needs this kind of experience now, where making mistakes is normal and the only way to learn. And you need patience and strong nerves. Trust me, it gets better when they mature a bit. Good luck.

 

It is much better he has these experiences now and is forced to work through them - as opposed to finding himself in college, overwhelmed and feeling stupid because it is the first time in his life something does not come easily. Ask me how I know.

[Runningmom80]

 

It is much better he has these experiences now and is forced to work through them - as opposed to finding himself in college, overwhelmed and feeling stupid because it is the first time in his life something does not come easily. Ask me how I know.

 

 

Yeah, I hear that. :001_smile:

 

 

My DS is a perfectionist too. He sees a psych for some ADHD tendencies, among other little quirks. Anyways, he says that sometimes you basically have to ask them to not be perfect, and have them practice not being perfect. He has me do timed math drills with DS, so that he understands that sometimes, getting the job done quickly, and moving on, is more important than everything being exactly perfect. He also had me explain that perfect isn't always the best thing, there can be beauty in mistakes. I'm still trying to work that into our conversations....:lol:

 

 

He of course explained it much better than I am right now, but it really made sense.

[Halcyon]

Thanks all. He plays piano, and enjoys it. He doesn't frustrate easily, not particularly. He patiently taught himself to skate....but then again, quit soccer because he "doesn't want to sweat that much" :lol: Plus, the other kids were much, much faster than him (he kept saying "why are they running so fast??" LOL)

 

When it comes down to it, he doesn't want to do what he doesn't want to do. If he WANTS to do it, he'll buckle down and learn--he wanted to learn how to draw comics, so we got a book and he learned-he drew a few wonderful comic books about Ben Franklin :) He wanted to learn how to skate, so he put in the effort. (And of course, he doesn't mind doing things he's GOOD at....)

 

But if he doesn't WANT to do something, or feels frustrated...watch out. Of course, he has to do it anyway. It's just....not fun.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Halcyon

[blondeviolin]

Thanks all. He plays piano, and enjoys it. He doesn't frustrate easily, not particularly. He patiently taught himself to skate....but then again, quit soccer because he "doesn't want to sweat that much" :lol: Plus, the other kids were much, much faster than him (he kept saying "why are they running so fast??" LOL)

 

When it comes down to it, he doesn't want to do what he doesn't want to do. If he WANTS to do it, he'll buckle down and learn--he wanted to learn how to draw comics, so we got a book and he learned-he drew a few wonderful comic books about Ben Franklin :) He wanted to learn how to skate, so he put in the effort. (And of course, he doesn't mind doing things he's GOOD at....)

 

But if he doesn't WANT to do something, or feels frustrated...watch out. Of course, he has to do it anyway. It's just....not fun.

 

I JUST (as in tonight) listened to a lecture by SWB called Homeschooling the Real Child. It reminded me of her "purposeful" child. You might try the lecture out.

 

I wrote in the other thread that my oldest is easily frustrated. In something such as this, it appears in all facets of her life.

[Halcyon]

Is he a perfectionist? And is everything usually coming easy to him?

We had similar things going on with perfectionist DD. For us, instrument lessons worked wonders. In the beginning, she'd run crying from the piano every.single.time. she made a mistake. Nothing teaches frustration tolerance like learning to play an instrument, or maybe a difficult sport.

He needs this kind of experience now, where making mistakes is normal and the only way to learn. And you need patience and strong nerves. Trust me, it gets better when they mature a bit. Good luck.

 

It is much better he has these experiences now and is forced to work through them - as opposed to finding himself in college, overwhelmed and feeling stupid because it is the first time in his life something does not come easily. Ask me how I know.

 

 

I don't know. He definitely likes to do things he's good at, and not do things he's not good at (hey! whaddya know, he's human!) but I want him to learn to work on things that are harder, that don't come easily, and be okay in the midst of the struggle. He gets frustrated if he doesn't "see" how to do something right away. He doesn't mind doing work that's a bit too easy for him; I think he likes not having to work too hard. Different than his older brother: a perfectionist, works very hard, tries again and again, and likes challenge. Younger is just unwilling at this point (age? personality?) to struggle, and I want to make sure this doesn't become a pattern.

[Halcyon]

I JUST (as in tonight) listened to a lecture by SWB called Homeschooling the Real Child. It reminded me of her "purposeful" child. You might try the lecture out.

 

I wrote in the other thread that my oldest is easily frustrated. In something such as this, it appears in all facets of her life.

 

Thank you! What does she mean by purposeful? I am going to dl it, but would appreciate it if you could give me a preview.

[Halcyon]

My advice would be to encourage him to learn to play a musical instrument or take up a sport/activity that doesn't come without practice.

 

Thank you. He does piano, he does work daily at it. And he plays tennis, which is not a natural sport for him--he struggles but he IS getting better and appreciates the improvement. I think I need to emphasize how effort=improvement--->greater enjoyment. in this case, and then parallel that to math.

[acurtis75]

Thanks all. He plays piano, and enjoys it. He doesn't frustrate easily, not particularly. He patiently taught himself to skate....but then again, quit soccer because he "doesn't want to sweat that much" :lol: Plus, the other kids were much, much faster than him (he kept saying "why are they running so fast??" LOL)

 

When it comes down to it, he doesn't want to do what he doesn't want to do. If he WANTS to do it, he'll buckle down and learn--he wanted to learn how to draw comics, so we got a book and he learned-he drew a few wonderful comic books about Ben Franklin :) He wanted to learn how to skate, so he put in the effort. But if he doesn't WANT to do it...watch out. Of course, he has to do it anyway.

 

Yep...this is pretty much dd's story too. Another reason why I won't just slow down. Yes, it would be more pleasant for me but I figure it's better to win this battle and teach her she has to do things whether she feels like it or not now while she's 6 than when she's 16.

[3Blessings]

My advice would be to encourage him to learn to play a musical instrument or take up a sport/activity that doesn't come without practice.

 

Learning violin "cured" the early perfectionism in my dd. Even though a lot of music learning comes easily to her, there are some skills/techniques that just require time and practice. She learned that "we practice to make things easier" and sometimes cool things happen when you take a chance and try something new. We have expanded that knowledge to everything else in her life.

 

It may also help for him to see you learn something new that requires practice or trial and error.

 

:iagree:I completely agree! Learning music and playing an instrument is sometimes just what these kids need. They find that practicing, acquiring new skills, and working hard WILL make a difference. In learning piano for the last two years, dd6 has found the "sweet spot" that educators talk about: she is challenged, but not so much to completely be out of her reach. It's been so good for her.

 

It is so frustrating when there is a total shutdown, however, and my dh reminds me that it is a cross country race, not a sprint. We are working to raise kids with perseverance; we aren't there yet! :tongue_smilie:

[psychmom]

We have almost daily struggles with this issue, too. Sometimes I think my dd would like for me to be able to directly insert knowledge into her brain!

 

I'm curious, for those who mention learning musical instruments--how do you get them to make the connection between the practice it takes for that and the practice for math (or other academic subjects)? My dd is a bit of a perfectionist and at first with music we had a lot of meltdowns, but finally she seems to be maturing a little bit in this area. But it's not improving in the academics! Maybe she's just not making the connections between practice leading to mastery leading to enjoyment? Maybe I need to make math more rewarding for her somehow?

[lewelma]

At the same age my ds(now 8) had the same trouble. He would throw himself on the sofa any time something was too hard (this included coloring!) This behavior would happen about 10 times a morning, while we were doing school work. It became so bad, that my husband finally said what we were both thinking, "He's broken. How did we ***break*** our son?" That was the worst day. We made a decision that day, that attitude would be everything, at the expense of all academics. He was ahead, so we had time.

 

Our solution was to go back to the Charlotte Mason idea of 10 minutes of true, honest effort. And if 10 minutes could not be done with a good attitude, we went down to 5 minutes (which we had to do). I would get out the writing, set the buzzer, and tell him that he could do it, with a good attitude, for 5 minutes. "You can do anything for just 5 minutes," I told him. Then, for every 5 minute subject that he did with a good attitude, I would make him a link for a paper chain that we would hang on the wall for everyone to see (and for him to remember). I did not judge him either; instead, I asked him whether he deserved a chain or not, and he was very honest with himself. We started with 4 subjects, 5 minutes each with 10 minutes (or more) in between. And slowly, slowly, slowly worked our way up. Always with a good attitude. Bad attitude (this included giving up) meant we would stop, and start the subject again after some jump rope or skipping and "shaking it out". We worked our way up to 30 minutes each for 6 subjects. All done with a good attitude. It took one full year. Now, he works hard, handles difficulties, focuses well, has a pleasant manner, and is a happier and more confident boy.

 

This is one of the true successes in my life where I made the difference. *I* changed his personality for the better, and it was well worth my time and patience.

 

Ruth in NZ

Edited February 14, 2012 by lewelma

[3Blessings]

We have almost daily struggles with this issue, too. Sometimes I think my dd would like for me to be able to directly insert knowledge into her brain!

 

I'm curious, for those who mention learning musical instruments--how do you get them to make the connection between the practice it takes for that and the practice for math (or other academic subjects)? My dd is a bit of a perfectionist and at first with music we had a lot of meltdowns, but finally she seems to be maturing a little bit in this area. But it's not improving in the academics! Maybe she's just not making the connections between practice leading to mastery leading to enjoyment? Maybe I need to make math more rewarding for her somehow?

 

This probably sounds too simple, but we make the connection for them by telling them in that many words. What I mean is: when we discuss their ongoing progress in piano, we mention how that is quite like their progress in mastering their math work. When we hit a rough spot in math, we remind her that she worked hard on "xyz piece" a week or so ago and mastered it. She can do it here, too.

 

One thing I should add: my dd6 is terrible at taking "help" or direction. She resists it even when she knows she needs direction. We have made working on accepting directions very important. I don't know if that plays into any of your dc meltdowns, but it does to mine . . . .

 

HTH

[Embassy]

I have to remind my son that I don't expect him to get everything right. I have to remind him that I expect him to make mistakes and that mistakes help us learn. I remind him that he isn't perfect, that I'm not perfect, and that nobody is perfect except God. It helps and he can handle things most days. I don't lay off and make his life easy. I want him to work hard and experience failure. As a perfectionist he really needs to practice failing.

 

My youngest wants to do things too hard for her and gets angry when she can't do things perfectly. She is only 3 so it might take her awhile to get a handle on her feelings.