help me plan accelerated math?

[serendipitous journey]

Well, Button seems to be quite good at math, at least conceptually. We recently added a generous dose of MEP to our MathUSee mix (he's about halfway through Delta and we've started Epsilon while we practice long division) and we started him at year 1; I've just shifted him forward over the course of a few weeks to the beginning of Year 4 and that seems a good fit. But I think he'll accelerate through it, and that will put him in Year5 by the beginning of second grade (he'll be just seven then).

 

Can y'all help me think of how to keep him moving forward and loving math? He'll be in algebra in the next couple of years at this point, maybe by 8, and I thought we'd do AoPS but I don't want to hit him with that material so early. MEP does continue past year6, so I could keep moving through MUS and MEP, though MathUSee is beginning to bug me (some of their pedagogy seems explicitly designed to frustrate a good math intuition) and I thought doing MEP but pushing forward with Math Mammoth blue series to finish mastering the skills we're developing in MUS (division, fractions, etc.) might be better. ???

 

Button LOVES math, esp. when it's MEP, and I want to keep the joy alive and keep him challenged ...

 

:bigear::bigear::bigear:

[Spetzi]

I have some eperience in this area. Since you mentioned AoPS, I wondered if you had read this article "The Calculus Trap." http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Resources/articles.php?page=calculustrap

 

It changed my view of how to educate my children. Obviously, one needs to learn some math skills in order, but why do we omit statitics and proceed Alg I, Geo, Alg II, Trig, Calc? There are so many other areas of math that many kids truly enjoy. Granted, these might not look as good on your child's transcript. They will be a detour from the standard, widely accepted curriculum, but we've found it to enrich and solidify dc's understanding of so many areas of working with numbers.

 

I wanted to be sure we got operations down, then we started with practical applications. Books like Life of Fred, Challenge Math and even workbooks like Basic Not Boring Middle School Math give the student a reason to use math. I have one child who enjoys applying it within her science experiments. In person or online math clubs give new problems every week and often a spirit of teamwork while trying to solve complex problems. Try reading Flatland when he's a bit older.

 

I haven't used any of the curricu you are for long (we both detested MUS) so I can't offer advice on that, but this is what we did:

 

+Use a solid math base to cover the essentials

 

+Add in lots of supplementary (fun) math activities (Life of Fred, Math Club, etc)

 

+Pause before starting Alg I (we took a few months to work on stats and problem solving)

 

+Begin Alg II right after Alg I (no geometry)

 

+Geometry can be challenging for some kids. Some kids love the rules and solving the puzzle, but if your dc isn't ready, take some time to work on other math areas.

 

+We paused again before going into trig and calc and are using a couple of AoPS books.

 

Don't stress about it! You will find your pace and level together. I did compact units of math and certain times allowed the kids to test ahead. It did take a bit to find our level, but I stopped worrying about moving too fast or too slowly (because we adding so much into our math curric.)

 

Good luck!

[kiwi mum]

+Begin Alg II right after Alg I (no geometry)

 

+Geometry can be challenging for some kids. Some kids love the rules and solving the puzzle, but if your dc isn't ready, take some time to work on other math areas.

 

but, on the other hand, if your kid is visual spatial they may find geometry easier than algebra and that it makes a nice break in the middle.

 

OP, regarding your thread title, you can't plan it. It will just frustrate you :D. Particularly when your child goes through growth spurts, either streaking ahead in math, or growing physically and totally unable to do any math (we've just been through a few months of that). I think the best you can do is have a vague idea of where you are headed and enjoy the ride.

[serendipitous journey]

I have some eperience in this area. Since you mentioned AoPS, I wondered if you had read this article "The Calculus Trap." http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Resources/articles.php?page=calculustrap ...

 

It changed my view of how to educate my children. Obviously, one needs to learn some math skills in order, but why do we omit statitics and proceed Alg I, Geo, Alg II, Trig, Calc? ...

...I stopped worrying about moving too fast or too slowly (because we adding so much into our math curric.)

 

Good luck!

 

I'll look at that article today; this is the kind of thing I started thinking of after I posted the thread, maybe following MEP as long as it is still challenging & fun, cementing our operations with MUS/Mammoth blue books, and plenty of LoF/livingmath type things.

 

Susan Assouline's book "Developing Math Talent" may be helpful to you.

 

Go wide and deep before advancing....problem solve, make models, classify crystals, learn alien math, have fun with codes, enjoy the enrichment material.

 

I do not have that book, and it wasn't on my radar at all though it rings a bell: I'll get my hands on it. Alien math is sure to please!

 

OP, regarding your thread title, you can't plan it. It will just frustrate you :D. Particularly when your child goes through growth spurts, either streaking ahead in math, or growing physically and totally unable to do any math (we've just been through a few months of that). I think the best you can do is have a vague idea of where you are headed and enjoy the ride.

 

:iagree: No plan survives contact with Button :). But we both thrive on order, and having a strategic plan is useful to me even if we get derailed -- I think that's what you're saying -- but a detailed plan going forward, esp. tied to particular times, well you are right that's a sure no-go.

 

... Accelerating by using all the available summer and break time from the get-go can turn in to a headache when the child realizes that the world is full of other options. Who knows, maybe like many mathy kids he'd rather go to music camp. Or maybe math is his whole focus..in which case the person in charge of the total education needs to decide what the balance should be..well-rounded or specialize early? My advice is don't slack the physical education...there are actual skills and abilities in these years that need to be developed and can only be done through practice.

 

We do educate through the summer, though as he gets older that will be more open to his plans, you are right. I agree that the whole child, and his physical education, are quite important, and his education is scheduled like that. His educational plan is rich and varied, and he gets hours outdoors, often hiking or at a park or creek, nearly every day. I am so glad we live in a place where we can do that!

 

RE transcripts: is there something particular we should be concerned about? I haven't been worrying, since we want to continue math through high school and he'll be at least grade level. As long as his transcript has high-level math each semester (above trig), AP courses, and we are dealing with colleges that look at transcripts carefully I'd expect that will be fine. Yes?

Edited February 12, 2012 by serendipitous journey

[Crimson Wife]

If he likes the puzzle problems in MEP, do seriously consider having him work through the Singapore Intensive Practice books.

 

Royal Fireworks Press has a book called Problemoids that has some very brain-stretching problems. My oldest DD didn't really care for it much when I got it for her a couple years ago, but I should probably dig it out to see if she'd like it more now that she's a bit older.

[serendipitous journey]

If he likes the puzzle problems in MEP, do seriously consider having him work through the Singapore Intensive Practice books.

 

Yes? I should say, he DETESTED Singapore main books & didn't like Challenging Word Problems either. He's okay with Zaccaro but that's not his favorite ... is Intensive Practice more puzzle/game-like than CWP?

 

-- and thanks for the Problemoids heads-up; maybe I should save it for when he's older, given your experience? ETA: I've just looked at the Problemoid books, and they do seem excellent.

Edited February 12, 2012 by serendipitous journey

[quark]

Can y'all help me think of how to keep him moving forward and loving math? He'll be in algebra in the next couple of years at this point, maybe by 8, and I thought we'd do AoPS but I don't want to hit him with that material so early. MEP does continue past year6, so I could keep moving through MUS and MEP, though MathUSee is beginning to bug me (some of their pedagogy seems explicitly designed to frustrate a good math intuition) and I thought doing MEP but pushing forward with Math Mammoth blue series to finish mastering the skills we're developing in MUS (division, fractions, etc.) might be better. ???

 

Button LOVES math, esp. when it's MEP, and I want to keep the joy alive and keep him challenged ...

 

:bigear::bigear::bigear:

 

Excellent advice so far. Nothing else to add except:

1. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3272174#post3272174 for ideas on fulfilling his thirst for math

2. You're right to be careful about AOPS. It's the "in" thing right now but not the be all and end all target for math education for younger mathy kids, iykwim.

3. I found the upper levels of MEP too repetitive for my guy. The lower levels were magic. Years 7 to 10 were surprisingly disappointing in some places so we didn't use any of those.

[Crimson Wife]

Yes? I should say, he DETESTED Singapore main books & didn't like Challenging Word Problems either. He's okay with Zaccaro but that's not his favorite ... is Intensive Practice more puzzle/game-like than CWP?

 

Yes, the IP books contain much more interesting problems than the textbook, workbook, or CWP. DD calls the IP books "fun math" while she grumbles about the textbook and only tolerates the CWP's.

[acurtis75]

We are in a similar spot so I'll share what I'm doing. Dd was hating math and was bored so we made a deal that we would starting accelerating and doing less worksheets if she stopped complaining every time we pulled out the math book. We are doing mathusee and supplementing with Life of Fred and cwp.

 

We did Delta in about four months actual time but more like two months of work time because the holidays were in the middle of the four months. We watched the lesson, worked a few problems and then dd had an opportunity to "test out" of the worksheets by getting all the answers right on worksheet D (the first one that had new problems and systematic review). If she got all problems right we did the test and moved on to the next lessons. During the first 10 lessons or so which were easy division problems did several lessons per day. She then read Life of Fred on her own at some point during the day a few times per week and did cwp a few days a week also. We just returned from vacation and will start th same plan for Epsilon tomorrow. I also started getting living math books and including them in her assigned reading. I originally planned to move to aops or something else after zeta but now I'm thinking about continuing mathusee through algebra since she'll probably only be 7 when we finish zeta at this rate.

[serendipitous journey]

We are in a similar spot so I'll share what I'm doing.

...

We did Delta in about four months actual time but more like two months of work time because the holidays were in the middle of the four months. We watched the lesson, worked a few problems and then dd had an opportunity to "test out" of the worksheets by getting all the answers right on worksheet D (the first one that had new problems and systematic review).

... We just returned from vacation and will start th same plan for Epsilon tomorrow. I also started getting living math books and including them in her assigned reading. I originally planned to move to aops or something else after zeta but now I'm thinking about continuing mathusee through algebra since she'll probably only be 7 when we finish zeta at this rate.

 

This is very helpful! Did you have any problem with MUS' presentation of long division? it was completely opaque and confusing to Button, and seemed wrong-headed to me, so I've switched tactics. Similarly with Epsilon -- the first lesson was so hard for him to do as presented, but he could easily solve the problems in his head; and looking ahead I can see that the presentation of the material in chapter 6 doesn't look robust to me: the teaching of the rule of four doesn't seem like it will make sense to Button & I don't think it highlights the logic behind the math, so I've bought Math Mammoth's blue book fractions 1 to teach the material.

[acurtis75]

We struggled through the long division portion but not really because of the way it was presented. It was more an issue of dd hating to work those long problems when she would rather day dream all day:lol:.

 

Just like with the upside down multiplication in Gamma we watched the video and discussed different ways to do problems and then after she demonstrated the ability and understanding to do them I let her pick which method she used to work them. I found it helpful to keep reminding her about place value as we worked and thought the way that was presented on the dvd was good. Did you do the Delta lessons on fractions at the end of the book before starting Epsilon. That might help the concepts make more sense. When I first started the DVD for those lessons I thought it was confusing but after we watched it again and worked some problems it seemed to help her understand the concepts better. She does them in her head as well.

 

I haven't really looked ahead yet and realized when we started work this morning that we still had the unit and final exams to do for Delta so we won't start Epsilon until Wednesday.

[nmoira]

3. I found the upper levels of MEP too repetitive for my guy. The lower levels were magic. Years 7 to 10 were surprisingly disappointing in some places so we didn't use any of those.

Y7-9 are for kids who need more work on concepts covered through Y6 before moving on. There are a few interesting standalone topics, but no major new ground is broken. Y1-6 is, unfortunately, unique in presentation.

[serendipitous journey]

Y7-9 are for kids who need more work on concepts covered through Y6 before moving on. There are a few interesting standalone topics, but no major new ground is broken. Y1-6 is, unfortunately, unique in presentation.

Thank you for explaining this!

[serendipitous journey]

We struggled through the long division portion but not really because of the way it was presented. It was more an issue of dd hating to work those long problems when she would rather day dream all day:lol:.

 

Just like with the upside down multiplication in Gamma we watched the video and discussed different ways to do problems and then after she demonstrated the ability and understanding to do them I let her pick which method she used to work them. I found it helpful to keep reminding her about place value as we worked and thought the way that was presented on the dvd was good. Did you do the Delta lessons on fractions at the end of the book before starting Epsilon. That might help the concepts make more sense. When I first started the DVD for those lessons I thought it was confusing but after we watched it again and worked some problems it seemed to help her understand the concepts better. She does them in her head as well.

 

I haven't really looked ahead yet and realized when we started work this morning that we still had the unit and final exams to do for Delta so we won't start Epsilon until Wednesday.

 

That is helpful. Button & I just didn't glom onto the upside-down thing at all, I bought a book of multiplication problems and we just did 2-4 each day, slowly and with fresh orange juice & chocolate, until we had it down. That's more or less our approach with the division. I think one challenge is that Button doesn't write a lot, and he also isn't esp. accelerated in reading, so his visual perception isn't as broad as a child who reads more & we try to keep his writing short.

 

I _thought_ the trouble with the first lesson might be that we were in the middle of Delta still :D; we switched to oral presentation of most fraction problems, and are fine now.

 

I have to say I'm so grateful for MUS, Button wouldn't do anything else really when he was 3 and I was able to get him going on it. I haven't seen another program that would have worked for him.

[Bang!Zoom!]

but, on the other hand, if your kid is visual spatial they may find geometry easier than algebra and that it makes a nice break in the middle.

 

 

This.

 

Important.

 

There's some kind of weird window we ran into here in geometry also....I agree with this advice because of what I've seen happen here.

 

Geometry here was somehow self-teaching when pre algebra was a struggle - not only was it self-teaching and ripe, it took off to embarrassing speeds with real understanding. I have no answer why, or even the question that fits.

 

All I can say is it's worth a peek, there's something about that field in the sequence, I want to use the word, "mystical" almost. I don't know if it because it uses different areas of the brain, maturation or what, all I can say is I'm bobbing my head in recognition of sliding it in before - here it was almost an accidental discovery (thanks Khan) - and it built a ton of confidence and was some kind of weird bridge to algebra.

 

No answers to your original question, just encouragement on the geometry detour.

[acurtis75]

That is helpful. Button & I just didn't glom onto the upside-down thing at all, I bought a book of multiplication problems and we just did 2-4 each day, slowly and with fresh orange juice & chocolate, until we had it down. That's more or less our approach with the division. I think one challenge is that Button doesn't write a lot, and he also isn't esp. accelerated in reading, so his visual perception isn't as broad as a child who reads more & we try to keep his writing short.

 

I _thought_ the trouble with the first lesson might be that we were in the middle of Delta still :D; we switched to oral presentation of most fraction problems, and are fine now.

 

I have to say I'm so grateful for MUS, Button wouldn't do anything else really when he was 3 and I was able to get him going on it. I haven't seen another program that would have worked for him.

 

DD's writing has improved over the last few months since we started cursive but on the long division her writing ability was an issue at times. Especially because she would lose her place while daydreaming about tinkerbell in the middle of a problem.:lol: The amount of writing was frustrating her so I started helping with some of the writing and doing some things on the ipad. We alternated problems where she wrote one and then on the next one she did it orally and I wrote in the answers. Also, using Notability in the ipad we could blow the problem up bigger and that helped.

[crazyforlatin]

DD's writing has improved over the last few months since we started cursive but on the long division her writing ability was an issue at times. Especially because she would lose her place while daydreaming about tinkerbell in the middle of a problem.:lol: The amount of writing was frustrating her so I started helping with some of the writing and doing some things on the ipad. We alternated problems where she wrote one and then on the next one she did it orally and I wrote in the answers. Also, using Notability in the ipad we could blow the problem up bigger and that helped.

 

Have you tried doing short division notations rather than the extensive long division requiring a child to write out all the steps? DD's motor skills haven't caught up with her mental skills, so it's easier for her to calculate mentally than to write out all the steps for long division. Since I need to see her work, I have her use short division notations, so half is done mentally and the other half is written along with the dividend. Less writing, just as much mental calculation equals a happier child.

[acurtis75]

Have you tried doing short division notations rather than the extensive long division requiring a child to write out all the steps? DD's motor skills haven't caught up with her mental skills, so it's easier for her to calculate mentally than to write out all the steps for long division. Since I need to see her work, I have her use short division notations, so half is done mentally and the other half is written along with the dividend. Less writing, just as much mental calculation equals a happier child.

 

What do you mean by short division notations? I tried googling but I'm not sure what you mean by that.

[crazyforlatin]

What do you mean by short division notations? I tried googling but I'm not sure what you mean by that.

 

I may have gotten the terminology wrong Anyway, on wiki, there is a diagram to show how it is done, and I've found that Dd still prefers this method with 2-digit divisors.

 

One of the problems I found with division is that we initially only derived answers via mental calculation and now I'm having a difficult time in getting DD to write out long division problems. It's faster to calculate mentally than to write it down due to motor skills. She used short division notations instead to show me some work, and when I searched for this type of problem solving, it seems legitimate, although I don't know what that means long-term, but by then, I'm sure her motor skills will have improved.

 

Place value is still preserved if you study the diagram.

[quark]

I may have gotten the terminology wrong Anyway, on wiki, there is a diagram to show how it is done, and I've found that Dd still prefers this method with 2-digit divisors.

 

One of the problems I found with division is that we initially only derived answers via mental calculation and now I'm having a difficult time in getting DD to write out long division problems. It's faster to calculate mentally than to write it down due to motor skills. She used short division notations instead to show me some work, and when I searched for this type of problem solving, it seems legitimate, although I don't know what that means long-term, but by then, I'm sure her motor skills will have improved.

 

Place value is still preserved if you study the diagram.

 

:iagree: I learned division many, many moons ago using the shorter notation format and only then did my teacher move on to the longer format.

 

I taught my son division using both formats concurrently, alternating between long and short. The book we used for long division (I forget which one) did not introduce the short division notation. He was a very reluctant writer then, became very frustrated by all the writing. So I decided to show him the short format. Once he understood the short format, he'd use it to solve problems while I modeled the long format sitting right next to him. We then switched formats for another problem. It was slow going at first but he gradually picked up speed. Being familiar with the short format also helped him catch on very quickly to "cake" factorization.

[acurtis75]

I may have gotten the terminology wrong Anyway, on wiki, there is a diagram to show how it is done, and I've found that Dd still prefers this method with 2-digit divisors.

 

One of the problems I found with division is that we initially only derived answers via mental calculation and now I'm having a difficult time in getting DD to write out long division problems. It's faster to calculate mentally than to write it down due to motor skills. She used short division notations instead to show me some work, and when I searched for this type of problem solving, it seems legitimate, although I don't know what that means long-term, but by then, I'm sure her motor skills will have improved.

 

Place value is still preserved if you study the diagram.

 

Thanks. I will show her this option, she really prefers doing everything mentally but I like to see the steps so I know where the error is if she gets the wrong answer.

[melmichigan]

OP, regarding your thread title, you can't plan it. It will just frustrate you :D. Particularly when your child goes through growth spurts, either streaking ahead in math, or growing physically and totally unable to do any math (we've just been through a few months of that). I think the best you can do is have a vague idea of where you are headed and enjoy the ride.

 

:iagree: I've officially given up planning and just make sure I have the next available. (Just be prepared for ending up with lots of math programs and levels on your shelf. ;))

[serendipitous journey]

:iagree: I've officially given up planning and just make sure I have the next available. (Just be prepared for ending up with lots of math programs and levels on your shelf. ;))

:iagree: too!

 

Maybe "planning" was a bad title ... I am trying to figure out the "next thing" after MEP. Since I don't want AoPS yet. This thread has given me great hope and lots of resources; this week is super busy here but I hope to have a plan drafted by next week and get folks' opinions.

 

-- also: will try short notation. It confused Button the first time, but maybe I should persist ...