SunshineMom Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 but your not confident she/he is up to the challenge? My dd8 during dinner last night was telling me that she wants more of a challenge with everything except science (MS Plato Science-Biology & McHenry's Chemistry) which she says is about right. She is moving very quickly through chemistry since we no longer have her sister joining us. She totally gets chemistry--it's a little freaky how natural she takes to it. I have purchased Middle School Science Education by Nebel recently so I will be looking for science gaps and diving deeper with her. The truth is we are all over the place with math doing Singapore 4a-5b and using MM fractions 4-6. She's burnt out with fraction work so she is skipping around with other math concepts. I am ok with this however when I told her she still has a lot to learn with math, she says "give me something a high schooler would do." She is not ready for that work. SOTW History she says is babyish. I informed her I will have her do more independent outside class reading to correspond with history studies next year. This year she is reading biographies of famous Americans (way below her reading level but I have about 20 of these books!). She is slowly reading through these bios daily during our silent reading time (1/2hr each school day). I have not assigned her any literature this year despite reading being her area of acceleration (reading 8th grade as of last year & currently, 6th grade WordlyWise). Spelling is moving along and we have moved back to SRW which builds slowly but effectively. She is an average speller. She has begun to write more and more with bio narrations and a family story journal we have started. She is also learning to type with Typing Tutor--she is moving quickly through this. What gets me is that she wants more but I am not confident she can do all the work needed to accelerate more despite her belief in her own abilities. She just doesn't want to wait but how do I do this keeping her skills (output) in mind but knowing she can conceptualize advance topics/ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Can you let her try harder stuff for a set period, a few weeks, and then sit down together & decide if it should continue or not? Just pull out/purchase things you do plan to use when she's ready anyway, that way if she isn't ready for it you can just hold on to them until she is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2smartones Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I agree. Perhaps you could literally hand her high school level work to prove the point that you know she's not ready, but then hand her something that's only slightly more accelerated as a compromise. That way she feels validated, and you don't feel like she's in over her head? Just choose something you'd probably use in the future anyway, and then save it for later when you "mutually" (:lol:) decide it's not time for that yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunshineMom Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 But what do I accelerate? She gets stimulated with school and afterwards is asking for riddles, new vocabulary words or wants to talk nonstop about something she read, heard or saw. She is intense and I am exhausted by her need to be further stimulated. I feel like I am in some kind of "fun house" of mental stimulation where topics/ideas are flipped inside out, recorded and stored for future retrieval. She is not the one who reads quietly for hours off to the side studying but rather the one that reads but wants to talk about everything she is reading or thinking. I love her but if she could, she would do school with me all day, everyday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 If you want to try something SOTW-ish but more challenging, look into the K12 Human Odyssey series. I think it's totally do-able by a bright 4th grader. My DD was reading the first HO book for fun recently even though we're doing U.S. history this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 The truth is we are all over the place with math doing Singapore 4a-5b and using MM fractions 4-6. She's burnt out with fraction work so she is skipping around with other math concepts. I am ok with this however when I told her she still has a lot to learn with math, she says "give me something a high schooler would do." She is not ready for that work. If that's what she really wants, you could use something harder as a carrot. Explain that x and y are necessary to complete before moving on to z. For my ds8 (soon to be 9), if I needed a carrot, it would be AoPS, because it does not look at all like what he calls "baby math." (FWIW, he does not care for the look of the SM books for that reason, lol.) He has done most of MM5, including the little chapters on neg. numbers and percents at the end of 5B, but he still has some fraction work to go (more multiplication and division). FWIW, he really enjoys the AoPS prealgebra videos. Or, maybe you could find something that covers the topics she needs but in a big-kid style, such as in a prealgebra sort of book that reviews elementary concepts (BCM?) (*sigh* when it comes to fractions I'm very partial to MM). Alternatively, keep skipping around with other math concepts like you are, for a break from fractions. Maybe add some fun stuff (e.g. Zaccaro, Kitchen Table Math, Hands-on Equations, etc., or just other fun topics like negative numbers). I'm all in favor of letting important topics like fractions "marinate" in the brain over time while you work on something else. Somewhere there are a few old posts on the idea of radical acceleration in math (maybe it was in this hard-is-easy and easy-is-hard thread). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 It sounds to me like what she really needs is more mental stimulation that is still level appropriate. I agree with the suggestion of Hands-on Equations. It sounds like it would be a good fit for her math level while still offering appropriate challenge. I would offer her more challenging reading (my kids love books like American Heritage Jr Library for American history and Horizons Caravel for world). But, mostly I think I would search to challenge her mentally in ways that don't necessarily have to be academic in nature. Playing around with ambigrams, Zometools, logic puzzles, etc. It souinds like she needs things to think about and ponder that challenge her, but that academically she is not ready to leap hugely in the content area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara H Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 It But, mostly I think I would search to challenge her mentally in ways that don't necessarily have to be academic in nature. Playing around with ambigrams, Zometools, logic puzzles, etc. It souinds like she needs things to think about and ponder that challenge her, but that academically she is not ready to leap hugely in the content area. These are good ideas. I would also look for ways that might engage her with other people. Maybe a blog that could go out to relatives or a building a website about something she's interested in. For what it is worth, drive is a really a huge part of learning. We have a similarly driven child and I can't think of a time when we accelerated that we regretted it... and a few times when didn't when we did. As far as math I like the Hands On Equations suggestion. We also really liked the books from Challenge Math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunshineMom Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 Thank you ladies, I have a lot to think about. Part of what I am dealing with is managing my time between my dd8 & dd10. Dd 10 has some learning disabilities which require a more slow approach than dd8. My dd8 has been complaining about how slow (read boring) everything is in school but is happy to go play when we are done. I didn't really realize the depth of the difference between them, and that doing science, for instance, together was very problematic. So I tested it. A science lesson with both kids took two WEEKS to complete, but took my dd8 with me, only one HOUR to do! The truth is I could really accelerate her more but am lacking the time with my current school schedule and materials. I will look into the math suggestions (Hands on Equations) and links about math. Yes, I believe dd8 would like more thinking games. She has worked thru part of a Building Thinking Skills book 4-6 and enjoys "Bella's Mystery Deck." Last year she completed a Think-A-Gram 4-6 book in a week. I have looked into Zometools before but will take another glance at it. I will also check out the History-Humane Odyssey program. I also think part of her desire to accelerate is due to her recent exposure to pubic school kids her age 3rd-5th. She is taking a drama class but has been upset that the kids are not prepared for class (line not memorized), irritated that she is being bribed with candy to complete "homework" (she refuses the candy) and how hard the readings are for the kids. She said, "Mom those kids can't read, they have such a hard time, it's sad." As far as the social aspect, yes dd8 is one that pushes me. I have written about this before. She has organized fundraisers, is working towards a Volunteer Service Presidential Youth award (50hrs of volunteering) and has conducted interview videos with a vet, horse ranch and the Humane Society. She was recently asked by the Humane Society to interview people as they participate in an event they are organizing. She wants more, more and more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmama2 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I wonder if by the "high school" comment she might mean to tell you she is ready for more output. She could mean that she would like you to assign an in depth research assignment or essay for example. Just another thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in SW WA Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 she says "give me something a high schooler would do." She is not ready for that work. Your dd sounds adorable. My dd8 said this morning, "I wish I was in college so I could do calculus." (She has NO idea what calculous is. She just hears her big brother talking about it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embassy Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 But what do I accelerate? She gets stimulated with school and afterwards is asking for riddles, new vocabulary words or wants to talk nonstop about something she read, heard or saw. She is intense and I am exhausted by her need to be further stimulated. I feel like I am in some kind of "fun house" of mental stimulation where topics/ideas are flipped inside out, recorded and stored for future retrieval. She is not the one who reads quietly for hours off to the side studying but rather the one that reads but wants to talk about everything she is reading or thinking. I love her but if she could, she would do school with me all day, everyday! LOL. I laugh because I understand where you are coming from. My ds is similar and he needs challenge to feel fulfilled. We school most of the day and I forget grade levels and make sure I give him some subjects where he really needs to put forth effort. With that in place he is much more likely to read quietly for hours. I also tend to approach some subjects from different angles and at different levels. I made a somewhat crazy move this year that has fit so far. I purchased a science curriculum that is algebra-based while my son is still working sequentially through an elementary math curriculum. Crazy, right? He is learning the math along with the science and he is really enjoying the practical application of math. It is hard at times, but that challenge really satisfies and excites him. While he doesn't enjoy his regular math assignments, he is really enjoying math through science. He really feels like he accomplished something when he is done with an assignment. I'm coming to terms with the idea that my youngest child is similar in her need for stimulation/fulfillment and right now I'm trying to figure out how to handle it all:willy_nilly::willy_nilly: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunshineMom Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 I also think that her pace and ability to keep it all together surprises me. She balances all her activities (piano,swimming, drama, softball), school work, interests (animals/vet science) and new ideas/projects (volunteering/video projects) really well. She is a long term goal setter and an achiever. She creates graphs for herself to measure her success with saving money (long term saver), physical strength exercises (softball agility training) and animal care. She wanted to learn to type so she can start a website (Oh my, I am not ready for this yet). She is always pushing... BethSW-calculus-that's wonderful that she truly loves math! I think that kids who have the skills and ability to envision their future paths often test out that reality with adults. A "who's listening" type of quest. I remember my dd8 at 4yrs seeing kids play chess and saying she wanted to learn too. She could have gravitated to the kids playing with blocks but instead went to the chess players. I enrolled her in a class and she began to play. I could have very easily said "Oh no that's for older kids," but instead chose to listen to her. I am trying to listen to her now but boy, I feel my own educational deficiencies creeping and wrapping themselves around my creative thoughts like a noose. I so admire others here for your determination, flexibility and creativity in meeting the unique needs of your children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang!Zoom! Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 What I'm looking at is your original question: When your child asks to be more accelerated but your not confident she/he is up to the challenge? I guess that's the starting point, and that is 1. What it would take to tip your sense of confidence- what sort of qualifications make you comfortable it's appropriate for her to be handling and working with. Do you have a pretty good road map internally for what the condition of confidence is in your view? The 2nd thing is to clarify what your concepts of challenge are with your daughter. Once that's done, then compare that to what her qualities of feeling confident but challenged are, then try to meet in a happy middle. --- Would it be possible to find anytime outside your ordinary schedule to allow her say...two hours of "way above her head" material and see how she does with it? Let her choose, design her own little study course and see how it goes; no restrictions at all. Just a private block of time for her "challenge work" she picks out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunshineMom Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 One Mom- Thank you for clarifying my original thought for me. First off-this kid wants to know when she can go to college. She's got the world by the tail! Really, I could see her going to college at 15-16yrs. Confidence Tipping Point-she wants to study a high school zoology program but I feel she needs the basic biology background so she is doing MS Plato Science-Biology. Zoology is the carrot to complete biology. Biology is her "extra credit class" with me but I often don't get to it with her (I've got a dd10 with some extra LD challenges). She loves this time spent only with her, however. She has been reading adult nonfiction animal encyclopedias, vet books, and various animal care books, so her interest in animals is substantial and consistent. Chemistry this year is just me trying to follow SWB subject science timeline (3rd grade=chemistry). Surprisingly, she intuitively understands chemistry so I am just following her led and I don't want to abandon these studies. Math, she doesn't know what she doesn't know, but is bored. Somewhere along the way she got turned off by math. She's slightly accelerated in math but could be more. I need to work on this more. History, I believe she wants to dive deeper but I am at a loss of how to do this exactly other than to assign readers. MCT Grammar Town-if it was just her, we could finish this up this year. Writing-oh....she writes narrations easily, nothing spectacular but average. She has not been know to freely write on her own much unless she is creating simple kid "public posters" or fact sheets about the environment/animals. However, I found out about the NaNoWriMo competition and told her about it. She immediately began typing (one finger at a time) for days (in any free time she had) but soon realized that 10,000 words was more than she could possibly do since she started the competition 2wks late (she only had 1/2 the time). She wrote an awesome beginning to a fantasy story but was deflated. I am slowing bringing back her writing joy with a fantasy journal we are co-writing. She paces outside my door to hear whether I liked her added piece and grabs the journal to read what I wrote. She is adding in all sorts of characters and the plot is thickening-it's all fun. She wants challenges and is attracted to academic competition. We went to a geography bee recently, she was too young to compete and really not prepared, but has now decided she wants to compete next year. So I am looking into geography programs and bought her a talking globe. She is also begging me to let her join a Science Olympic Team-Gamma level. I just can't do this right now but maybe next year. I am just struggling to get ahold of what she really is capable of and what I can do to help her achieve meanwhile caring for the educational needs of my dd10. Additionally, dd8 wants to do school activities with me rather than independently. How I have already accelerated her: it has been easy to accelerate her in reading simply by giving her challenging readers when she was young. I haven't recently tested her reading level but last year (2nd grade) she was at an 8th grade. I have her working a Wordly Wise 6th grade which works well. She recently played an online vocabulary game and got a 90% on an 11th grade level. I think the game inflates grade levels (WW 6 is where she is really at) or she was just familiar with the terminology which came from Canterbury Tales. Sorry to be so all over the place with my thoughts. I am sincerely trying to take a step back, by writing it out, so I can see more clearly. Reflecting on what I have written, I am a little saddened. She went through a blueish period before I got her back into Plato Science but then totally perked up once we began. I think she felt neglected and once she realized this, now is asking for more. I would appreciate any advice. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) I have not read all the replies, but is this child the second child ? If so, is it possibly that she is trying to compete with her older sister? I was this second girl in my family, and when my sister skipped 6th grade, I convinced my parents to let me skip 3rd grade the following year. It wasn't about me, it was about keeping up. I was driven and compared myself to my older sister all the time, even into college. Obviously, there came a time when I did have to develop a self-image separate from my sister, and it wasn't easy. Just something else to consider. Ruth in NZ Edited February 3, 2012 by lewelma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunshineMom Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Yes, I am writing about my dd8 but she has surpassed her older sister who has some major LDs. Dd8 is not competing academically with her older sister but rather is trying to blaze her own trail. I am guessing life would be much easier if I had similar kiddos here. But, I am dealing with two kids who are in opposite ends of the learning spectrum which makes me a little scattered. Fast or slow, fast or slow......depending on which kid I am talking to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) One Mom-Thank you for clarifying my original thought for me. First off-this kid wants to know when she can go to college. She's got the world by the tail! Really, I could see her going to college at 15-16yrs. Confidence Tipping Point-she wants to study a high school zoology program but I feel she needs the basic biology background so she is doing MS Plato Science-Biology. Zoology is the carrot to complete biology. Biology is her "extra credit class" with me but I often don't get to it with her (I've got a dd10 with some extra LD challenges). She loves this time spent only with her, however. She has been reading adult nonfiction animal encyclopedias, vet books, and various animal care books, so her interest in animals is substantial and consistent. Chemistry this year is just me trying to follow SWB subject science timeline (3rd grade=chemistry). Surprisingly, she intuitively understands chemistry so I am just following her led and I don't want to abandon these studies. Math, she doesn't know what she doesn't know, but is bored. Somewhere along the way she got turned off by math. She's slightly accelerated in math but could be more. I need to work on this more. History, I believe she wants to dive deeper but I am at a loss of how to do this exactly other than to assign readers. MCT Grammar Town-if it was just her, we could finish this up this year. Writing-oh....she writes narrations easily, nothing spectacular but average. She has not been know to freely write on her own much unless she is creating simple kid "public posters" or fact sheets about the environment/animals. However, I found out about the NaNoWriMo competition and told her about it. She immediately began typing (one finger at a time) for days (in any free time she had) but soon realized that 10,000 words was more than she could possibly do since she started the competition 2wks late (she only had 1/2 the time). She wrote an awesome beginning to a fantasy story but was deflated. I am slowing bringing back her writing joy with a fantasy journal we are co-writing. She paces outside my door to hear whether I liked her added piece and grabs the journal to read what I wrote. She is adding in all sorts of characters and the plot is thickening-it's all fun. She wants challenges and is attracted to academic competition. We went to a geography bee recently, she was too young to compete and really not prepared, but has now decided she wants to compete next year. So I am looking into geography programs and bought her a talking globe. She is also begging me to let her join a Science Olympic Team-Gamma level. I just can't do this right now but maybe next year. I am just struggling to get ahold of what she really is capable of and what I can do to help her achieve meanwhile caring for the educational needs of my dd10. Additionally, dd8 wants to do school activities with me rather than independently. How I have already accelerated her: it has been easy to accelerate her in reading simply by giving her challenging readers when she was young. I haven't recently tested her reading level but last year (2nd grade) she was at an 8th grade. I have her working a Wordly Wise 6th grade which works well. She recently played an online vocabulary game and got a 90% on an 11th grade level. I think the game inflates grade levels (WW 6 is where she is really at) or she was just familiar with the terminology which came from Canterbury Tales. Sorry to be so all over the place with my thoughts. I am sincerely trying to take a step back, by writing it out, so I can see more clearly. Reflecting on what I have written, I am a little saddened. She went through a blueish period before I got her back into Plato Science but then totally perked up once we began. I think she felt neglected and once she realized this, now is asking for more. I would appreciate any advice. Thank you! When I read this post, I can't help but wonder if you would feel more confident if you understood the bigger picture of how everything fits together academically. I wouldn't take what your dd is saying at face value, but simply as an indication that she feels like she wants more of a challenge. For example, based on your posts, it is obvious that she is not academically on par with being prepared for high school level math or science. W/the exception of biology, all high school science will require at least a basic understanding of algebra. THere are conceptual courses that teach the content w/o requiring the student to do the math; those might be an introductory option. But full-fledged high school science courses are going to require more math than your dd currently has. History and literature would be the easiest areas to provide greater challenge. Finding topics that you want her to read, and coming up w/questions that guide her toward the connections you want her to make are adaptable to any age/skill. THere are lots of books that are even geared toward younger kids that are able to lead to plenty of upper level connections. For example, Anne of Green Gables is full of allusions to Shakespeare, poetry, historical events. So is Alice in Wonderland. Purchasing an annotated copy would provide plenty of insight into areas that you could have her spring off and explore. (if you are unfamiliar w/annotated books, they are published w/footnotes in the margins that explain references/allusions/comments. Here is an excellent annotated edition of Alice in Wonderland http://www.amazon.com/dp/0393048470/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=5171753051&ref=pd_sl_85v29643j7_b It has the look inside feature so you can see what I am talking about.) You can take an annotated edition and use it to find the poetry, historical events, literature, etc to read. This approach is all about understanding connections......why authors chose the words they do, how they include meanings in their writing that go beyond the surface word, etc. This is the sort of mental stimulation that my advanced kids love. It is like a mystery/puzzle to solve. (FWIW, I think the annotated version is better for the teacher to have and provide materials to search for the clues/meaning vs. handing it to the child and simply having it there in front of them providing the answers w/o effort. Having them make the connections is what provides them w/the mental challenge they crave.) Hope you can find some happy balance for your family. Edited February 3, 2012 by 8FillTheHeart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunshineMom Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Thank you 8FillTheHeart for your response. I know my dd8 is not ready for a full fledged high school science course however she wants to work up to it. I was hoping I could get some suggestions here-the gap between her current level & desire to her goal. I am thrilled she has the desire to pursue her interests. I am realistic in her current abilities (but am also aware she goes thru developmental spurts & is drawn to many interests) so I'm trying to pull together a home zoology course but I know she needs to have a firm biology foundation first. My hope was that by sharing her here the hive could guide me to better resources or activity suggestions. I think in the future, I will just stick to what we are using for curriculum rather than share her personality. As far as language arts is concerned, thank you for the annotated literature recommendations-they would stretch her. With regards to math, she is bored with our math approach so I need to give her some more choices. I appreciate your insights and suggestions however I'm left feeling slightly defensive. I know that is not your intention. I also know that my dd8 needs more of an overall challenge than what I am giving because she is asking. I know I am new to accelerating but I was hoping I could find a safe place here. Edited February 3, 2012 by Jewel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang!Zoom! Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) The issue with literature could easily be solved by using Dragon Speak software. She could easily do ten thousand words with no problem at all. Try it out. My oldest daughter sounds a bit like your daughter at that age. Good luck and hang on girlfriend. Some kids are very high energy. She'll put more of herself into something if she chooses it if you want to look at it that way for ONE additional subject- did you see my suggestion of letting her have say, a Saturday afternoon for high acceleration attempt? My guess is you are going to end up there anyway, and very soon, so get over to the local community college and start talking to them about resources in the area. My oldest started goofing around with that stuff around 9. Expensive, yes. Worth it? Yes/No. Does your daughter understand college pathways already? About the suggestion for annotated editions, this is excellent advice. Alice in Wonderland is something we did the hard way; that is not an easy book if you use the annotated version. There's a lot of astronomy, math and other things hiding in there. It's also a terrific gateway to literature analysis; I agree about the element of mystery being a big draw. Same thing with SOTW. That book is very malleable. The first run through you can do it just as it is presented, supplement with the activity guide, extended readings..but you can go even higher with it if you add on lectures, art, geography and spin off studies at whatever level she's fluent in. Youtube has some wonderful lectures on the history of Egypt for example (ask me how I know, lol) there are a lot of spin off categories to goof with if you get creative. Speaking of youtube and net resources; do you know how to find opencourseware online? That would be a solution in the box possibly if you wanted to try some and let her attempt it independently. You could discover a lot also about where she is in self-motivation and self-discipline on academics. Let her pick an open source course and get the materials for it and let her work through it. Be nearby to answer questions and guide, but let go of her hand a little bit and let her strive for it. She could develop some really good skills for learning how to learn that way if she's never done it before. MIT has the option of getting a certificate for a fee once completed if you want, or you can just take it for free although the time and sometimes books/materials may have some cost. Edited February 3, 2012 by one*mom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Thank you 8FillTheHeart for your response. I know my dd8 is not ready for a full fledged high school science course however she wants to work up to it. I was hoping I could get some suggestions here-the gap between her current level & desire to her goal. I am thrilled she has the desire to pursue her interests. I am realistic in her current abilities (but am also aware she goes thru developmental spurts & is drawn to many interests) so I'm trying to pull together a home zoology course but I know she needs to have a firm biology foundation first. My hope was that by sharing her here the hive could guide me to better resources or activity suggestions. I think in the future, I will just stick to what we are using for curriculum rather than share her personality. As far as language arts is concerned, thank you for the annotated literature recommendations-they would stretch her. With regards to math, she is bored with our math approach so I need to give her some more choices. I appreciate your insights and suggestions however I'm left feeling slightly defensive. I know that is not your intention. I also know that my dd8 needs more of an overall challenge than what I am giving because she is asking. I know I am new to accelerating but I was hoping I could find a safe place here. :confused: I have no idea why what I posted would leave you feeling defensive nor why you wouldn't feel like I was allowing this to be a safe place. FWIW, I wasn't addressing your dd's personality at all. I was strictly posting based on what you shared about her abilities: 4th-6th grade math and 8th-11th grade reading level. In addition, she sounds like she wants more of a mental challenge. My only pt was that what an 8 yr old perceives as what they want to do is limited by their understanding of what is actually involved. (Like Beth's sweet dd's desire to do calculus. :001_smile: Too cute.) My suggestion of your feeling more confident about knowing the larger picture is so that you would be comfortable w/the decisions you are making and that you could explain them to your dd since you stated: What gets me is that she wants more but I am not confident she can do all the work needed to accelerate more despite her belief in her own abilities. She just doesn't want to wait but how do I do this keeping her skills (output) in mind but knowing she can conceptualize advance topics/ideas? FWIW, my suggestion of possibly pursuing conceptual courses in the future as an intermediate step is if her math lags her conceptual understanding, they could act as a bridge to challenge her w/o needing the math skills. Sorry if my posts somehow offend you. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang!Zoom! Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Jewel, you know that feeling you have (strictly emotional now) about wanting to go run and hide in the bushes? Very common. Very, very common. I promise you this won't last even though it might seem today to be so definite. I don't spend a great deal of time reflecting on what my oldest dd "put me through" - maybe a mental block, I dunno...she was difficult at best. But when I read stories like yours, I'm instantly transported back in time to events and silly stories- so I have a great deal of empathy for you. With some of those experiences in mind (and there's a whole bunch of others here just the same) - we've all walked a path of stormy confusion. Some approaches work, some didn't. My point is, take a bit of rest, take a deep breath and keep posting here for the wisdom you can gain from others experiences like yours. There's tons of creativity and experience that can propel your journey forward and help. Oftentimes, you'll see advice scattered about to jump from this board to the college and high school board. It's there you will see the struggles that lie even farther down the road (even though you may not be working in those realms yet). Lurk over there, read, take notes and print things out for inspiration. :grouphug: Two more things. One, come back again and again and re-read the advice of 8fill - you'll come to see the context and "tone" a little clearer, it was genuinely stated with thoughtful concern and given in a supportive manner. See the little clip at the end of her signature? 18 years & 8 children is an enormously rich experience....I think the chasm you feel is going back to defining what you currently define as confidence...to go ahead or not. Two: I read your post over like four times, each reading I was trying to identify what it is that's nagging you. Here's what I've come up with (and tell me straight up if I'm wrong)- what I see is this: For you, you are a careful weaver of knowledge, one step at a time. I think the important thing to YOU as her educator is mastery of skill. For your daughter, maybe not so much mastery, but a blinding whirlwind of activity and go go go. I think that's where the conflict lies as I read it. Add to that the extensive scope of activities and schedule you're dealing with, who wouldn't be left feeling lost as the educator? Kids don't always have a baseline of mastery in subject areas. Actually, I don't know if I ever met one that did come to think of it. I think breaking down each subject area very carefully and reflecting on where she shows mastery might be comforting to you. How are you supposed to know what areas, topics or subjects to allow further acceleration in when her map of interests is so large and she is so energetic and such a high drive? That's enough to drive anyone nuts and left feeling unsure. You want solid mastery of basics, and she wants a high school experience right this second. Two totally different things. What if you were to go even just look at the materials with her in what's involved in a high school level science course and "plot backwards" with her. You mentioned she's very "graph" handy (what an awesome skill) - she may have a little more clarity of the ladder she needs to climb and own if she were able to see that goal and break it down in pieces, like a table of contents? Would something like that appeal to her sense of logic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunshineMom Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 OneMom-Thank you for the many examples and resources to accelerate. I don't think she will be starting college anytime soon but I have bookmarked those resources for later. Pathway to college? She has asked me about minimum age for enrollment at the community college-12, I believe. She knows the levels and years for a Bachelor's, Master's and PhD. Don't take this too seriously, really...she's my goal setter-she says "I am getting the PhD." She also wants to start cc when she is 12--no way, maybe more like 15yrs/16yrs. This discussion thread got me really thinking about a plan of action. I actually purchased a couple of HS Zoology textbooks this morning. I also resurfaced a light high school leveled book on the study of animals which I forgot I had. After she completes chemistry, biology and we throughly go thru Nebel's, I am going to launch her into Zoology-slowly! I just really needed to formalize an outline of how to proceed, so I could move forward. She would appreciate a commitment from me and to know she is going to get where wants to go. DragonSpeak-fantastic yes, but she would probably never want to write or type again! I am not sure how I feel about this. Thoughts? Did you use this? Agree, annotated literature is great. I ordered the annotated Peter Pan, Alice in Wonderland, Secret Garden, and Wind in the Willows. I have a hard time getting rid of books/curriculum I have purchased, even when they don't work i.e. Famous Americans. May save these literature reads for next year. 8FillMyHeart-I can see more where you were coming from regarding math/science. Yes, a lack of solid math skills would prevent her from progressing in science. I am not so worried about this right now but obviously will not be neglecting math. I also hear your point about a child's inability to estimate the actual commitment in doing long term projects/advanced education subjects but I have to do something for now, she is pushing. We will give my plans a try and if it doesn't work out, well, we can either go slower or change gears. I am not in hurry but I certainly can't keep doing what I've been doing. Thank you ladies!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang!Zoom! Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Oh Dragon Speak is a lovely tool of humility, trust me. My dd blabs into that thing for an hour straight, we transfer it into edit mode and those pages are pretty much all underlined in green and red...(grammar/spelling errors.) It can take hours to correct grammar and spelling, not to mention paragraph construction and cohesive thought processes and then arranging it into outlines, then going back for factual check, adding in resource notes... Dragon Speak is not, absolutely positively not error-correcting in the drafting process. It is a marvelous amazing tool to observe in the way that the mind and mouth, literal speech patterns appear vs. what a paper that is written in hardcore research style will show. Her papers which are written without the aid of Dragon Speak look/sound/feel like a second grade level. Dragonspeak papers on the other hand, look/feel/sound (after full correction and full process drafting) - as if they were written by a graduate student. The drafting process practice alone is tasty, and in my opinion, a really great way to introduce those concepts without it being dry. I'd also mention that the drafting process requires books on the side; today I'm taking my daughter to the library (we have a 3 day fest going on a project right now for novel writing) -and the rough draft she writes today might at best stretch two pages...we are working in a very microscopic area of writing today, and that is....opening paragraphs for novels. It must include hook, foreshadowing, tone, setting, major characters...blah blah blah, you get the idea. But before even that happens, the three main parts of the novel have to be sketched, (beginning/middle/end) - and within each of the three main areas, plot lines, antagonists- the whole kit and kaboodle. In my honest opinion, even though the kid is fluent in this area, I suspect come Monday, there will be over 20 hours of work into that opening paragraph. I don't hawk Dragon speak as a cure-all be all out of the box perfection, but it really does affect the amount of material and "output" that a kid can produce to work with as a recipe vs. writing out one.word.at.a.time. There's a speed factor involved that handwriting doesn't have, it makes writing much more approachable, provides a vast field of material and yarns to play with and gets "the hard part of starting" out of the way. Dragon speak is also amazing in application for learning disabilities, the College Board even allows it to be used as an aid for people with situations when necessary for the essay portions of writing. Steven Hawking uses a form of it even...it's not a band-aid or cheater or substitute for writing skill. It sure gets the horse out of the barn and on the track. I just couldn't say enough good things about using it if it is something that could help. Later on, when I'm at the library with Junior Bucksnort, I'll take a snapshot of the books that we use after the first draft. My things are already packed up or I'd list the titles out now for you. Give it a chance if it sounds like something that would help your (both of them) kids out- it's so worth it. ---- I really encourage you to get that kid on a campus now. Just being in the atmosphere and seeing the interaction and various role-models there is a big deal. Even if you are just traveling on vacation, and know of a campus nearby, stop and get out of the car, walk around and enjoy the atmosphere. Early exposure to different types of campus is a really, really, cool thing. Take lots of photographs and let her plaster them on her walls or keep a scrapbook or journal of them. Exposing her to the libraries in universities is really cool too. Showing her places where deep and intense studying is taking place will cement something you can't pull out of a book. Let her see the fools, goof-offs, the serious, the achieving; she'll separate the behaviors she sees and make judgement on it. Take her to some graduations at high schools, colleges, show her some of the middle and end fruits. Enrollment at 12? Sure, why not? If she has the (and it sounds like she does) ability to sit in a class, even for audit status, let her go take one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 For you, you are a careful weaver of knowledge, one step at a time. I think the important thing to YOU as her educator is mastery of skill. For your daughter, maybe not so much mastery, but a blinding whirlwind of activity and go go go. I think that's where the conflict lies as I read it. Oh, I can *SO* relate to this because it's me and my 2nd child. I have an auditory-sequential learning style and I like going through things one step at a time in a very logical order. My DS, OTOH, is a visio-spatial "gestalt" learner. Just today he was eating up some fraction work from the Math Mammoth blue Fractions 1 worktext that I pulled out after he wanted more than the very brief intro to halves and quarters in Singapore 1B. He's playing around with the fraction tiles we have and intuitively figuring stuff out on his own. Yet this is a kid who hasn't totally got his addition and subtraction facts memorized. Hard is easy and easy is hard indeed! It makes the sequential learner in me cringe to see him jumping around like this in math, but I have to respect that his learning style is different from my own. It's not about me but him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in SW WA Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 It makes the sequential learner in me cringe to see him jumping around like this in math, but I have to respect that his learning style is different from my own. It's not about me but him. We jump around also. Never a dull moment. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunshineMom Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Emotionally a little raw....I have been holding back in sharing where dd8 really wants to be, to myself and others. I do feel supported, thank you for having the patience to hear me. I am not sure I would have been able to get to this point if not for OneMom's & 8FillMyHeart's tenderness and understanding. I am processing. OneMom, I think we will try DragonSpeak:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizaG Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) My only pt was that what an 8 yr old perceives as what they want to do is limited by their understanding of what is actually involved. (Like Beth's sweet dd's desire to do calculus. :001_smile: Too cute.) It's funny that both you and Beth mentioned that example, because I came back on here to suggest that Jewel look into this: Calculus By and For Young People old thread: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176801 [ETA: Or you could just hand her the map and let her try and figure it out... :D] Edited February 7, 2012 by Eleanor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 It's funny that both you and Beth mentioned that example, because I came back on here to suggest that Jewel look into this: Calculus By and For Young People old thread: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176801 [ETA: Or you could just hand her the map and let her try and figure it out... :D] As far as that goes, there is also Calculus w/o Tears which is geared for 4th grade up: http://www.amazon.com/Calculus-Without-Tears-Learning-Students/dp/0976413809/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328647049&sr=8-1 http://www.berkeleyscience.com/synopsis1.htm But, really that was not my pt. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.