TOG: How do you make this work for you?

[Holly IN]

Hello,

 

I am back. :)

 

Here is the link to the thread I started a few weeks ago.

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335555&highlight=Holly

 

This has the background information on me and the issues. So if you need a reminder go back and read the thread.

 

I know TOG is very teacher intensive. After much prayer and talking, we decided to stick with TOG. Now I need to know how to make it work for me and my situation (full time job on top of this)...

 

Here is what I got so far from others:

 

1) Buy all the books you need and shelf them accordingly.

2) Don't do the workbook thing like karenciavo did. It is working for her but it doesn't mean it will work for you. She is not working a full time job.

3) Just copy the pages and put in notebook and have the kids write out their answers similiar to karencaivo however not doing the reformatting.

4) Pop quiz

5) Buy the preprinted SAP....I would still need to print the Reading assignments.

6) utilize WTM R stragey(sp?) for doing history using TOG (got this from M&M I believe)

 

That is what I got so far.

 

I talked to the kids. They said they do understand they if they want to learn more about something then they need to look it up. They told me just to provide them lined papers to do their questions on. They will number them accordingly...

 

They do want everything prepped and ready to go ahead of time. So that means I will have to take time to prep them all. Hubby did say maybe I will have to take time off work to prep everything. I do have enough time off to do this. (2 week vacation, plenty of sick time that I do not lose, 2 personal bus and holidays)

 

My R son said he will write extra papers over his disagreements with TOG's view. Right now he is getting frustrated over Imperilism. sigh!! Yr 3 Unit 4 week 29-30.

 

They also want an actual spine that deals with US history so they do extra readings. Any suggestions???

 

I am amazed that very few here said they can do TOG prep in 1 hour.

 

Any ideas how to make TOG work for you in being LESS teacher intensive? I know it seems like I am asking how do I make it more like MFW...lol!!

 

I know another board member is wanting answers to this as well as we have been pm'ing each other. :) I can ask this on the lampstandpress.com forum however I would get REEMED by them for even asking these questions. ;)

 

Help?? Pretty please??

 

Holly (who is trying to swim in a torrential ocean of TOG and working)

[Quiver0f10]

One thing that has been a huge time saver for me is buying the preprinted SAP pages from tapestry. I put them into a file folder and the kids grab a set at the start of each week. My kids answer the questions on lined paper and we file them into their binders when the week is finished.

 

We don't have this, but I believe the BJU US History was once a recommended alternative spine. I do buy all the books from either Amazon or The Bookshelf. I don't have the time to run to the library.

 

As far as planning we meet on day 1(Thursday) and the kids grab the week's SAP sheets, reading assignment charts( I just have them highlight the box next to each book they need to read) and maps ( My 17 yo copies these and the writing assignment for me). My R and D kids work on their own for the rest of the week. We meet on Monday for our history discussion and then again on Wednesday for lit discussion. They hand in their writing assignments on Thursday, which are usually corrected and handed back on Friday. Some weeks, like this one, they get them back on Monday and might have to make some changes on Monday before starting the new week's writing assignment.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Quiver0f10

[choirfarm]

Ok, this is what I did when I used it.

 

First of all I looked over the weeks and what books were used/what I had/what library had ( for my lower grammar kid..just used library for her and bought books for older two) and picked my resources.

 

I then typed a syllabus that had what to read by what week of the plan. I liked doing it that way because if we needed to a week could take two if we were traveling and had partial weeks or sometimes I combined weeks and told them to do two that one week.

 

Then I made a notebook for my older two. I ran off the timeline figures from the yahoo groups. I ran off the maps in map aids. OH... that was my one dislike from Year 4.. THEY DIDNT HAVE MAPS FOR A LOT OF WEEKS.. If I remember correctly, WWI?!!!! I think I may have made my own... I just printed the questions as they were from the CD. I used to make my own worksheets, but just found it too time intensive. I would circle the ones I wanted them to answer.

 

I am pm you.

[1Togo]

Not meaning to hijack this thread, but does Tapestry have tests? I posted about grading for notebook-type history, but didn't get a response. Just wondering if Tapestry includes tests.

[Holly IN]

Not meaning to hijack this thread, but does Tapestry have tests? I posted about grading for notebook-type history, but didn't get a response. Just wondering if Tapestry includes tests.

 

yes they do but it is EXTRA money....

 

I think they sell each level seperatley which is robbery to me. I could be wrong. That was the main reason why I didn't buy. Maybe this might the answer....hubby would have to cough up some dough for me. :D

 

Holly

[choirfarm]

Not meaning to hijack this thread, but does Tapestry have tests? I posted about grading for notebook-type history, but didn't get a response. Just wondering if Tapestry includes tests.

 

Yes. I wouldn't bother for grammar level at all and most dialectic. However, the rhetoric level has weely exams as well as quarter exams.

[choirfarm]

I just wanted to say that I typically take a good week at least to put my syllabus together. Then I spend another week or two printing off the maps, timeline figures, questions. This was just for history.

 

English was always another week to do the syllabus because I always tweaked and changed literature around. I taught 10th-12th grade English, so I have tons of literature resources. Another week to work on the questions, worksheets, essays, etc.

 

Basically I spent the month of June doing this. However, all I had to do throughout the school year was to take out the materials on Monday and talk to the boys about what I expected and what the deadlines for the week were. ( We tended to change our discussion days, essay assigments depending on activities for the week.) Then sometime that week I would read over the teacher's notes for an hour or less to prepare for the discussion. I watched the documentaries, TC lectures and movies with them.

[Holly IN]

That is basically what I would need to do...This would take all summer though...however we are starting Yr 4 next month. :( So I would have to give up something in order to plan...not sure what.

 

Holly

[coffeegal]

:bigear:

[Candid]

I posted about my prep which is pretty short here: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3485512&postcount=24

 

I agree that the SAPs would be a good way to go, but if you print them out ahead of time, it usually takes me 1 -2 hours at most in the summer of fairly brainless printing activity to do them myself at home. If you have a lap top and a wireless network, you could certainly sit and watch TV and do this job in the evening. One thing to apply brain power here is which way to print them out depending on how your print prints copies so that you don't have to reorder them at all.

 

I'd also use the recommend list of books as is and buy them from the Bookshelf or Amazon and be done with it.

 

Next, D and R level student are responsible for themselves, but over the summer work up a one sheet here's what to do each week checklist for them; I'd cover everything they do not just Tapestry. You should not be responsible for breaking down TOG assignments for them unless they are new D level students and even then I would rather you do this with them face to face taking no more than 15 minutes at the end of their discussion time with you telling them why you suggest doing X on Monday and then Y on Tuesday with a goal of them doing this on their own by the end of their first D level year (obviously that depends on the child).

 

This means you won't be giving them their reading assignments, they'll be using the Tapestry notebook to get the week's assignments. The one thing you will decide and include in their one sheet thing is will they do all of Tapestry. Several year plans have cutting plans for lit, so you'll take two hours over the summer to determine which plan your students will use and make a simple weekly assignment sheet that shows the revised lit assignments for the year if you think it is necessary. You may also wish to cut a subject like worldview/religion/philosophy/art, music/etc. That should be fairly simple if you just cut one whole subject, they'll know not to read it.

 

Crafts are a big time consumer in our house, so if you need to do those, you'll need to plan on spending some summer time figuring out what you will do, what you need to do it and buying it. You might consider turning part of this over to your students. You could quickly make a list by week of possible projects, tell them they can do X number and to choose them (do this after you buy the craft books so they can look at them). Either have them make a list of supplies they need or you make a list and then shop. Take a day off to shop everything you need for the year in that one day. If you want to do fancy notebooks with their SAPS, take those to the printer to be bound that same day.

 

Okay, I think that covers summer prep I do. I mostly do the books in Tapestry. My one exception will be Year Four where I'm going to sub in some harder works of lit for my oldest. I'll probably spend an hour or two deciding what I want to use and what I'll remove, I'll then figure out which of my books will go in the open weeks. I'll find some online questions to use OR just read the work myself and jot down questions for it. My questions will probably not be as involved as those Tapestry does nor as literary, but it will do what I want in terms of exposure and coverage. I won't do anything elaborate. I can get away with this because it is probably a fairly small swap that one year.

 

Then week to week I do what I indicate in the post above. With only my own children I read the teacher's yellow notes. Late in the week I do discussions with children, I don't count that as prep. I do not do prep on the discussions. I can skim the parts they are supposed to know as they talk with me. The hardest part of discussion for me is breaking down a "big question" to get them to understand it. The best thing I can suggest for that is watching the Tapestry video on Socratic discussions for upper level students.

 

I would love to know what your argumentative son is saying about imperialism, and I think it is great that he is willing to do the papers. The one place I depart from Tapestry is their writing program. I like the SWB talk called "A Plan for Teaching Writing." His idea of papers fits nicely with that program. This is where I fail because I don't quite know what to do with the papers and I don't keep up. I think next year we will either use Write Guide or a private source I am aware of through a friend to help me there.

[shanvan]

I am in the process of putting a list of other poster's ideas together. It's a long list of very helpful ideas, but I haven't been able to spend much time on it this week b/c of a 4H competition, which is thankfully over. I hope to post it later this week.

[Holly IN]

I am in the process of putting a list of other poster's ideas together. It's a long list of very helpful ideas, but I haven't been able to spend much time on it this week b/c of a 4H competition, which is thankfully over. I hope to post it later this week.

 

I look forward to it!!! ;)

 

Holly

[Zee]

Third attempt to post....aaargh! I have two issues with TOG: making it work for me and making it work for ds. The sheer volume of reading and work to be accomplished in a week, along with the work and studying that needs to be completed in all of ds's other subjects can be absolutely overwhelming. Does anyone commiserate?

 

It seems, as if, more moms struggle with the program than the students (as far as accomplishing the weekly load). I'm just basing that on posts I've read here recently. If anyone has ideas on how to streamline for the kids, I'd be interested in those ideas, too.

 

Here are my mom tips. I don't know if they are "right, " but this is what is keeping us going. I think you already have many good ideas here, Holly, but maybe these will help someone, too.

 

1. Have faith in the teacher's notes. I have always read all the books my son reads and I tried to do that again this year, but the Rhetoric level was impossible for me. I never read the teacher's notes before discussion, because I had always read the books. I was afraid I'd miss something with the teacher's notes. I was finally forced by the certain fact that I could not keep ds moving forward unless I tried using the "cheater's notes." :)

They worked. I was perfectly able to lead an intelligent discussion using the discussion guide, and thoroughly covered the threads for the week. It was just like TOG said it would be like. Trust the teacher's notes. Have faith in them. If you have no other time to read your dc's books, then read the teacher's notes, and discuss away guilt free. (Note: This is for history. I do read the literature still. I see no way of doing an adequate job discussing a book without reading the book myself. Someone may be able to do that with the notes, but I can't.)

 

2. Print the maps from the maps CD and give your kids the teacher's map to copy. I grew weary trying to find historical resource maps that had all the places listed that ds was supposed to find. Trying to be sure all the places were listed on the map took too much time, and with ds's other subjects, too much of his time. This is not the ideal that I would like, but mapwork is being done, and ds is learning to locate things on the map. Sometimes we look at things on a globe, also, to ensure things are being put in their proper perspective.

 

3. I haven't started testing....yet. Right now, I can't figure out how to fit that in. Discussion and written A&T questions count for the bulk of ds's grade. I have started using the short answer part of the evaluations orally, to teach ds how to answer these type of questions and to give him an idea of what types of things should be paid attention to for testing purposes. My goal is to give this part of the test in writing next year. I'm also thinking about using the essay prompts, not as test, but as writing assignments. Again, I'm looking to next year to do that. Ds has had a tough adjustment to ninth grade and the overall workload, so I'm trying amp things up slowly. The rest of this year will be used to get him used to the evaluations. Also, I thought that the essays could be used this year as examples to study for writing effective 5 paragraph essays of his own. This would flow nicely with my writing instruction curriculum for the rest of the year (The Elegant Essay).

 

4. Don't try to do it all. I wanted to. He can't. I can't. Pick your subjects based on your 4 year plan, and don't look back. I wanted to do government, art, church history, ect., but we are only doing history and literature. That's all we have time for with all the other subjects that need and demand attention.

 

5. It's o.k. to add or subtract. I've had to modify literature a lot this year, because of circumstances. It's been fine. I've added and subtracted, making sure we're still doing plenty of work to earn credit. It's all good. Also, we add in the church history (at the dialectic level- we already had the books) to our rhetoric history readings. We don't do the questions in the SAP, we just read. I like that ds is still getting the benefit of the reading, and he likes it that he doesn't have another full course to keep up with. Supplementing is good, if you have the time. We occasionally read the fine arts assignments, whenever we see something interesting. I don't feel a slave to checking all the boxes anymore. I have a perfectionistic, all or nothing, personality and this is very freeing.

 

6. You already have it on your list, but to this, I concur: don't make worksheets for your Rhetoric students. Give them a copy of the SAP, circle the questions you want answered, and have them write their answers on notebook paper. I went to this method a few weeks into the schoolyear. Big time saver! I don't know if this will help anyone, but I do allow ds to add to his answers during our discussion, so he leaves several lines of space between each of his answers to add in details he might have missed. Again, I'm using this to teach him what a thorough answer should look like, and he's getting better at answering the questions with detail before he comes to discussion.

 

Finally, I don't know if we are doing it "right" according to TOG standards; I doubt we are, but I do know that we are working very, very hard, and that will be enough for me at the end of the year to issue full credit for what we have done. I'm focusing on skill building, and I'm trying to keep the focus off of box checking. I hope this helps.

[Holly IN]

Third attempt to post....aaargh! I hope this helps.

 

WOW!!! I am so glad you didn't give up posting...What a great valuable post. Love this.

 

The map aid as you said: I did that. I too got very weary and tired of finding resources to do this. I am also not happy with their geography program anyway. I will be getting BJU Geography 9th grade and have both boys work on it together.

 

Everything else....WOW!! Gold mine of help! thank you so much!!

 

Holly

[choirfarm]

Evaluations- What I tended to do was to test over 3 or 4 weeks at a time. For example, I might have a WWII test and then a Korean War/Cold War test. I used the evaluations and made my own. I think I also found some on the files of the Yahoo groups.

 

Writing- I found it best if we picked an essay/assignment and did the outline/rough draft one week and then the final draft the next week. That still meant they wrote at least 3 or 4 papers each quarter, which I thought was completely reasonable.

 

As far as reading, my boys never had a problem with it.

 

Yes, you cannot do it all. We always did history, history in depth, and literature. I had them read the church history and we discussed it, but I didn't require any written work. The exception was in TOG year 4. My oldest read all of the works of CS Lewis. I used some of the TOG stuff for Screwtape Letters and Mere Christianity. I used the Teaching Company lectures and had him write paragraphs for the questions that went with the lectures that were on his website. I also had him write a research report. I gave him half a credit for it. We sure enjoyed the church history materials and even it you don't get credit for it, I would read all that you can.

 

Maps- I never stressed. I have tons of books that have different maps in it. If that failed, I handed them the teacher's map. I always gave the quarter exam with the map portion and they did well.

[Holly IN]

Guys....You are going to think this is so funny.

 

My R son just told me he has been reading the Gov't required readings. I told him to stop after 3 weeks into school year of Yr 3. I felt like it was way too much and wanted to do WTM gov't suggestions. LOL!! Unbelievable...I didn't require any questions on this either. I told him if he wants to continue fine.

 

Holly

[Janice in NJ]

Holly,

 

As far as prep:

 

Can you just put a copy of the "workbook pdf" file that Lampstand offers on a disc or jump drive and give it to your kids and make THEM copy and paste the questions? Make THEM do the work! Really. Train them. These are life skills!!!!

 

For TOG at our house, I always had the pdf on a shared network drive. The kids knew where to find it. Once a week at the end of our discussion, they pull up a rough document that they put together BEFORE our face time. This was for the NEXT week not for the week plan we just discussed. Rough. No formatting. Basic.

 

Name

World History: Ancients

Week 2: The topic of the week is copied here

Date goes here - I had them list the date of our next discussion

 

Accountability Questions

 

1. hsjgfdagjdksghfd 2. fdjgkhdfsjlghfdskghfdk

3. gfdhsgfdhsgjkfdhsgjfkldsh

etc

 

Thinking Questions

1. hsjgfdagjdksghfd 2. fdjgkhdfsjlghfdskghfdk

etc

 

This was rough. No formatting. No spaces for answers. No returns between questions. Just a string of questions.

 

TOGETHER we would go through the questions and I would let them know which ones I wanted them to prepare and which ones they could skip. They would either hit return to separate the ones they were keeping or just delete the ones that weren't assigned on the document as we went. I usually assigned most of the AQ; I would primarily pick-n-choose from the thinking questions. I would have them indicate in italics after the question the type of answer I was looking for: 2-3 short sentences; 4-5 ideas; 1 solid paragraph with a topic sentence, three points, and a evaluative concluding sentence.

 

THEN I would leave them to format the document. Clean things up. Make space for the questions they were going to answer. Etc. It was all done in Microsoft Word. Then they save the document for the week. They fill it in, bring it to our face-time meeting, add notes and comments during the meeting, print it and drop it into their permanent file. (I also had them save a copy on a folder on our network drive. The drive also had all of their writing assignments for the year, etc. A massive folder that I backed up to disc and then dropped into their permanent file for the year. Records. Done. Easy.)

 

The biggest benefit: it takes very little of your time. And MOST of that time is spent chatting about the topic and interacting over the MATERIAL with your kids. THAT's the most valuable use of your time. They have to do the grunt work. And that's the way it should be. They are the students. Students do the grunt work. The detail stuff. NOT the teacher.

 

Make them do it. Kids are fast. After you train them it will take them less than five minutes to format that document and the process of doing it will FORCE them to start thinking about the big ideas before they start the reading. You can't help but scan what you are formatting as you are formatting. :001_smile:

 

Make them do it.

 

Same thing with the reading assignment. Make them copy it, write it down, type the assignment at the top of the document. Something. It is not your job!

 

I would sincerely suggest that you just tack this extra thing on to the end of your end-of-the-week discussion time. At first it will take a little longer, but eventually your kids will be able to handle all of it in a couple of minutes. Easy. Done. Off YOUR PLATE!!!!

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

[Elinor Everywhere]

Thank you, Janice! I love reading your TOG posts. I have an 8th grader who is currently in Dialectic but will be moving up to Rhetoric next year, and I LOVE these ideas. She's also quick on the computer, which will help. I think I'll start implementing this now, so that by next year (high school) she will be used to it.

[Holly IN]

Thanks Janice!!! Your stuff is a gold mine of information. Thank you for taking the time to post.

 

Holly

[klmama]

Janice, you are so smart!!!!! Thank you for sharing this tip!

[Holly IN]

I wish all of us can have tea time with Janice. :grouphug:

 

Holly

[Lang Syne Boardie]

My 9th grader schedules 100% of his work. My prep time for him is 15 minutes per week. I spend about three hours on discussion at the end of the week, and I give three twenty-minute lectures per week. So I spend four hours and fifteen minutes per week on TOG for this student.

 

Every Sunday afternoon I give him a list of reading assignments, his SAP, and the times during the week when I will be holding lectures and discussions. He's responsible for doing the reading and related assignments before the scheduled discussions. He's also responsible for making sure he's here and not busy when I've scheduled a lecture.

 

He can do it because the alternative is to go to the public school down the street, which would totally derail his life and plans. I just don't have time to hold his hand in every subject, and there's no reason why I should at this stage (with this kid).

 

It took him a few weeks to get good at scheduling his studies but he's got it down pat now.

[freesia]

My 9th grader schedules 100% of his work. My prep time for him is 15 minutes per week. I spend about three hours on discussion at the end of the week, and I give three twenty-minute lectures per week. So I spend four hours and fifteen minutes per week on TOG for this student.

 

Every Sunday afternoon I give him a list of reading assignments, his SAP, and the times during the week when I will be holding lectures and discussions. He's responsible for doing the reading and related assignments before the scheduled discussions. He's also responsible for making sure he's here and not busy when I've scheduled a lecture.

 

He can do it because the alternative is to go to the public school down the street, which would totally derail his life and plans. I just don't have time to hold his hand in every subject, and there's no reason why I should at this stage (with this kid).

 

It took him a few weeks to get good at scheduling his studies but he's got it down pat now.

What do you lecture about? Do you pull from the teacher's notes or do you get together your own ideas based on the threads or elements of lit analysis?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

What do you lecture about? Do you pull from the teacher's notes or do you get together your own ideas based on the threads or elements of lit analysis?

 

I totally base the lectures on the teacher's notes. When possible I include some power point and videos, information from the suggested links, or snippets from adult-level library books on the subject. I love to try to find virtual field trips that relate to our week's topics.

 

If I'm in a hurry I just use the teacher's notes. I take a moment to look over them, and outline as I go on the blackboard. When I do this the older three levels must all copy the outline into their notebooks.

 

I'm teaching all four levels (lower grammar, upper grammar, dialectic, and rhetoric), and I'm using my lecture system as a way to bring them all together over some shared information. We all enjoy it.

[freesia]

I totally base the lectures on the teacher's notes. When possible I include some power point and videos, information from the suggested links, or snippets from adult-level library books on the subject. I love to try to find virtual field trips that relate to our week's topics.

 

If I'm in a hurry I just use the teacher's notes. I take a moment to look over them, and outline as I go on the blackboard. When I do this the older three levels must all copy the outline into their notebooks.

 

I'm teaching all four levels (lower grammar, upper grammar, dialectic, and rhetoric), and I'm using my lecture system as a way to bring them all together over some shared information. We all enjoy it.

Thanks, that's a great idea.

[choirfarm]

Just wanted to point out to those that are considering TOG that you do not have to do it this way. In fact, they want you to do socratic questioning not lecturing. They have a great video in the teacher training that shows someone doing this in a co-op. They also show how to do socratic questioning in real life:

 

Mom, can I go to Tom's house?

 

Rather than saying, "No, you haven't turned in your Geometry yet." You should ask, "What were you supposed to get done today?'

Then they list.

"Do you have all that done."

"All except Geometry. I guess I have to get that done before I can go, huh?"

"Yep"

 

I'm sure the poster probably does involve her children. But if she is lecturing over the material and putting things on the board and showing power point slides, it is not how they recommend doing it if anyone wonders.

 

We just sit in the living room and discuss!!!! It doesn't have to be that fancy.

 

I totally base the lectures on the teacher's notes. When possible I include some power point and videos, information from the suggested links, or snippets from adult-level library books on the subject. I love to try to find virtual field trips that relate to our week's topics.

 

If I'm in a hurry I just use the teacher's notes. I take a moment to look over them, and outline as I go on the blackboard. When I do this the older three levels must all copy the outline into their notebooks.

 

I'm teaching all four levels (lower grammar, upper grammar, dialectic, and rhetoric), and I'm using my lecture system as a way to bring them all together over some shared information. We all enjoy it.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Sorry for being too fancy, choirfarm. I never said TOG recommends what I do. Also, I do use Socratic questioning in the three hours I spend discussing the material with my kids.

 

I believe the question was, "How do you make TOG work for you," and I answered for myself.

 

Just wanted to point out to those that are considering TOG that you do not have to do it this way. In fact, they want you to do socratic questioning not lecturing. They have a great video in the teacher training that shows someone doing this in a co-op. They also show how to do socratic questioning in real life:

 

Mom, can I go to Tom's house?

 

Rather than saying, "No, you haven't turned in your Geometry yet." You should ask, "What were you supposed to get done today?'

Then they list.

"Do you have all that done."

"All except Geometry. I guess I have to get that done before I can go, huh?"

"Yep"

 

I'm sure the poster probably does involve her children. But if she is lecturing over the material and putting things on the board and showing power point slides, it is not how they recommend doing it if anyone wonders.

 

We just sit in the living room and discuss!!!! It doesn't have to be that fancy.

[choirfarm]

Sorry for being too fancy, choirfarm. I never said TOG recommends what I do. Also, I do use Socratic questioning in the three hours I spend discussing the material with my kids.

 

I believe the question was, "How do you make TOG work for you," and I answered for myself.

 

No.. I'm glad you do it that way. It works for you, which is GREAT!!! But if I thought that I had to do that, I would never even attempt TOG. Does that make sense. I'm glad you do that... I'm sure you are a great teacher... Sorry if I made you mad. I just didn't want anyone to get discouraged. I'll go back to my hole now...

[Holly IN]

Sorry for being too fancy, choirfarm. I never said TOG recommends what I do. Also, I do use Socratic questioning in the three hours I spend discussing the material with my kids.

 

I believe the question was, "How do you make TOG work for you," and I answered for myself.

 

Actually you were answering freesia's question not mine. :) Just wanted to clarify that. ;)

 

Holly

[Holly IN]

No.. I'm glad you do it that way. It works for you, which is GREAT!!! But if I thought that I had to do that, I would never even attempt TOG. Does that make sense. I'm glad you do that... I'm sure you are a great teacher... Sorry if I made you mad. I just didn't want anyone to get discouraged. I'll go back to my hole now...

 

Come out of your hole!! :)

 

Holly

[Candid]

No.. I'm glad you do it that way. It works for you, which is GREAT!!! But if I thought that I had to do that, I would never even attempt TOG. Does that make sense. I'm glad you do that... I'm sure you are a great teacher... Sorry if I made you mad. I just didn't want anyone to get discouraged. I'll go back to my hole now...

 

Yes, I agree.

 

I rely on the discussion notes, but I don't even read them in advance (although I do read the yellow teacher's notes). And we sit either on a couch or bed and do the discussion together. With my own children I don't struggle as much making the discussion Socratic, but with other folks' children I do struggle more to not lecture but break down concepts as choirfarm shows so they can get to the big point on their own.

 

I'm doing lit this year, the history mom started by showing us things Tapestry had on line and my first reaction was, "there's stuff on line??!!"

[Holly IN]

One thing I wish is there is still a TOG blog roll. I can't find it anymore. The lady that started that (smocklady I believe) no longer has a website. She had wonderful ideas on using TOG. Thinking outside the box type things.

 

Holly

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Actually you were answering freesia's question not mine. :) Just wanted to clarify that. ;)

 

Holly

 

This is very important.

[Elinor Everywhere]

Tibbie,

 

Thanks for posting how you lecture. I've never really "taught" history; we've done TOG for 3.5 years, Sonlight & SOTW before that, and we've always just read the books and talked about them. This year, in year 4, there is so much going on that I was thinking I'd like to lecture them, look at websites, short videos, etc., but couldn't really visualize doing it. Now I have an idea of what to do - so thanks!

[shanvan]

Tibbie,

 

Thanks for posting how you lecture. I've never really "taught" history; we've done TOG for 3.5 years, Sonlight & SOTW before that, and we've always just read the books and talked about them. This year, in year 4, there is so much going on that I was thinking I'd like to lecture them, look at websites, short videos, etc., but couldn't really visualize doing it. Now I have an idea of what to do - so thanks!

 

:iagree:I was going to post something similar. I'll be adding in a few of Tibbie's ideas. I think my Dd will benefit from having some things written on the dry erase board. Ds would benefit from taking notes as we discuss or I lecture.

 

I also get what Choirfarm wrote and wish she would come back out of her hole! :lol: Lecturing could look overwhelming to a new TOGer. It's good to realize there are many different approaches and sometimes it's hard to explain that to someone who is new to TOG and wants to know what it is 'supposed' to look like.

[Holly IN]

Yes choirfarm needs to get out of her hole... :D

 

Holly

[choirfarm]

Yes choirfarm needs to get out of her hole... :D

 

Holly

 

 

Grin.. I didn't stay in for long. I just hate making people mad.. My husband gets so upset. If he makes a small comment, I take it really hard. I always want the perfect grade.

[freesia]

Grin.. I didn't stay in for long. I just hate making people mad.. My husband gets so upset. If he makes a small comment, I take it really hard. I always want the perfect grade.

 

Okay, here's an A+ for trying to be encouraging and make sure that folks don't get discouraged.:001_smile:

 

(I like to keep everyone happy, too.)

 

FWIW, I was just interested in how people do TOG differently. I am happy with our discussions but like to think about new ways to mix things up. So, I appreciated both of your comments.

[shanvan]

I'm still working on my master list of ideas for using TOG in High School. Anyone have anything else to add?

 

These are the categories I'm covering...

 

Planning

Assembling materials

Assignments

Choosing books

organizing books/materials

Maps/Geography

Timelines

Evaluations

Discussions

Getting behind

Scheduling

 

I'm not sure how I'm going to post this once I'm done (which may be over the weekend...or next week, depending on how much school work I have to grade/plan and how many errands I have to run!)

[Holly IN]

How to ween materials if behind...

 

My D level complaint is some of the materials he is reading do not give the information he needs on his accountability questions. Are there solutions to this problem?

 

Also literature....some books have been read already....Are there any booklist that is simple but a must read for college bound kids?? I do wish TOG would have a basic book list that is a must read for college bound kids. I am disappointed that some of the books I consider a classic is not in the TOG lit portions. I also am not happy about the big focus on poetry in YR 3 literature. (this is my biggest beef with TOG is the lit portion)

 

Holly

[Holly IN]

I'm still working on my master list of ideas for using TOG in High School. Anyone have anything else to add?

 

These are the categories I'm covering...

 

Planning

Assembling materials

Assignments

Choosing books

organizing books/materials

Maps/Geography

Timelines

Evaluations

Discussions

Getting behind

Scheduling

 

 

WOW!!!

 

You are on a roll. I will start thinking here about those categories. I feel like we all need to sit down with coffee, tea, or wine to have our own little talk time (all of us). :) :grouphug:

 

Holly

[Elinor Everywhere]

How to ween materials if behind...

 

My D level complaint is some of the materials he is reading do not give the information he needs on his accountability questions. Are there solutions to this problem?

 

Also literature....some books have been read already....Are there any booklist that is simple but a must read for college bound kids?? I do wish TOG would have a basic book list that is a must read for college bound kids. I am disappointed that some of the books I consider a classic is not in the TOG lit portions. I also am not happy about the big focus on poetry in YR 3 literature. (this is my biggest beef with TOG is the lit portion)

 

Holly

 

SWB gives booklists in TWTM, and I know there are lots of Great Book lists around. If your child has already read the lit selection, you could check out the book on the "Alternate" page and see if that one's been read. Or, you could just replace it with a classic that you feel is a must-read. That's what I'm going to do - most of the lit books will be fine, but for those times I want my dd to read a particular classic, I'm just going to substitute it. For discussion, I'll use Sparks or one of those (online).

 

As for the poetry, that's my dd's favorite part... :D

[shanvan]

SWB gives booklists in TWTM, and I know there are lots of Great Book lists around. If your child has already read the lit selection, you could check out the book on the "Alternate" page and see if that one's been read. Or, you could just replace it with a classic that you feel is a must-read. That's what I'm going to do - most of the lit books will be fine, but for those times I want my dd to read a particular classic, I'm just going to substitute it. For discussion, I'll use Sparks or one of those (online).

 

As for the poetry, that's my dd's favorite part... :D

 

Yes, I'll probably do this for Year 3 R literature a couple of times next year. One I'm trying to decide b/w is Great Expectations vs. David Copperfield. I love, love, love DC. GE I like parts of, but as whole I find it creepy and depressing. Part of me thinks GE b/c it is somewhat shorter and is the 'expected' 9th grade choice. A side by side comparison of the 2 would be interesting, but, after all, we are talking about how to make TOG manageable!

 

Done sidetracking, back to original discussion....

[shanvan]

WOW!!!

 

You are on a roll. I will start thinking here about those categories. I feel like we all need to sit down with coffee, tea, or wine to have our own little talk time (all of us). :) :grouphug:

 

Holly

 

I wonder about creating an e mail list, but then I don't want to spend so much time writing tips that I don't get to my own TOG planning.:lol: I opted for unit by unit planning this year. Won't do that again. This summer I'll be doing all planning & printing ahead of time!

[Holly IN]

SWB gives booklists in TWTM, and I know there are lots of Great Book lists around. For discussion, I'll use Sparks or one of those (online).

 

As for the poetry, that's my dd's favorite part... :D

 

thanks for the sparknotes for me.....didn't realize I could use it for myself. :D will work on the booklist tonight!!

 

Thanks!

[Holly IN]

I wonder about creating an e mail list, but then I don't want to spend so much time writing tips that I don't get to my own TOG planning.:lol: I opted for unit by unit planning this year. Won't do that again. This summer I'll be doing all planning & printing ahead of time!

 

totally understandable. Same here...will be doing the whole year planning this summer. No more unit by unit!!

 

I think posting on this high school board would be good. Who knows...a NONtog mom may have something we didn't think about. :)

Holly

[luvnlattes]

My D level complaint is some of the materials he is reading do not give the information he needs on his accountability questions. Are there solutions to this problem?

 

:iagree: Some weeks it's been quite frustrating for ds and I. I've assigned several questions that were covered in depth in the dialectic discussion outline only to find out they weren't covered at all, or just briefly touched on, in ds's reading.

[Holly IN]

I am also debating whether to even waste my time looking for books at the library or not. It would totally cut down on my time spent on the library online catalog. (save me on those late fees as well...)

 

Do you buy new or used?? I know even on Amazon marketplace...some of the books are cheaper buying directly through amazon instead of the marketplace due to the shipping price (over $25 is free shipping)....

Holly

[MCG]

My D level complaint is some of the materials he is reading do not give the information he needs on his accountability questions. Are there solutions to this problem?

 

 

Holly

 

 

My boys do the same thing. I try to remind them that the purpose of the Accountability Questions is just that Accountability....it lets me know they read the books. The goal is to read the books not just answer the Accountability questions.

 

I don't post much (maybe once in the 8 years on the board) but have enjoyed this thread. We are in our 5th year of TOG. This year is my first with a Rhetoric student.

 

TOG can be so overwhelming. I concur with all those who have said to make your kids responsible for organizing their week. It makes mine so much more manageable. Each child has a copy of the reading assignment yellow sheet and the student pages and last but not least a "syllabus" (a sheet listing beginning date of the week ie. January 23 and a column with the TOG Week we are covering ).

 

We just do the History core/and In-depth, Church History, and Literature portions. They know each week by Friday the questions and map work need to be completed. If any of them are struggling completing the assignment it is his responsibility to come to me and ask for help. (Don't get me wrong...I do check on them...but they don't know how much I do). We discuss at least once a week but I find as the week progresses we find ourselves talking about the topics naturally. This year I have required the boys to on the main level of the house while completing school work. I found that after I had my instruction time with them, they would hide in bedrooms or the basement and we wouldn't see each most the day. This has also helped with the accountability of completing their school work.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Marivi

[MCG]

I am also debating whether to even waste my time looking for books at the library or not. It would totally cut down on my time spent on the library online catalog. (save me on those late fees as well...)

 

Do you buy new or used?? I know even on Amazon marketplace...some of the books are cheaper buying directly through amazon instead of the marketplace due to the shipping price (over $25 is free shipping)....

Holly

During my planning time (in the summer) I export TOG resource list to excel and then print it out. Next I go to my library's url and mark which books they have. Then I mark week on my "syllabus" (calendar with date matched with week number) with a star then I know to reserve the books a week before hand.

 

I don't borrow most multi-week books though it really is easier just to buy them. All the books for the year are in a bins (one for each level: Rhetoric, Dialectic, and Lower Grammar). Each week my boys know where to go to get the books they need next.