Are you optimistic about the future of the US?

[Robin in Tx]

So you're saying that since McCain plans to stay in Iraq (till 2013 or 100 years from now depending on what's coming out of his mouth on any particular day) he doesn't have to articulate any plans at all?

 

How fair is that?

 

No, what I'm saying is that since he's not advocating getting out now, it doesn't make sense to expect him to have plans *for* getting out now.

 

What do you know? McCain's plans are on his website as well!

 

http://johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/fdeb03a7-30b0-4ece-8e34-4c7ea83f11d8.htm

[Phred]

OK, after a little more sleuthing I see that no one can prove whether China is actually drilling or not (even Dick Cheney has cited that they are) but they have an agreement with Cuba to do just that. But is that really the point? The point is that if they do drill off Florida why are we not opposing it because of environmental concerns or doing it ourselves?

 

Did I criticize him? I'm still waiting to hear what his plan is. I can't criticize something I have not heard. Anyone can preach "change" and get people whipped up for whatever that is. All I am asking is what is his plan, exactly, for getting out of Iraq? If he is running for President he should already have a plan and a whole brain.

So... on one hand I should be all excited about something before it exists. On the other hand you are not going to get excited about something until it exists.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

No, what I'm saying is that since he's not advocating getting out now, it doesn't make sense to expect him to have plans *for* getting out now.

 

What do you know? McCain's plans are on his website as well!

 

http://johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/fdeb03a7-30b0-4ece-8e34-4c7ea83f11d8.htm

 

Things are subject to change. And the best laid plains, both of mice and men, "gang aft agley/An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain..."

 

So I'd rather have a vision. I don't think either could have a well-defined "plan" at this point, though both have an idea in which direction they'd like to see our military move toward.

 

I think it disingenuous for either to say, "We're going to do this, period." Caution and prudence and a certain lack of arrogance that we know what the future holds is more welcome for my comfort in choosing a candidate.

[Robin in Tx]

Things are subject to change. And the best laid plains, both of mice and men, "gang aft agley/An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain..."

 

So I'd rather have a vision. I don't think either could have a well-defined "plan" at this point, though both have an idea in which direction they'd like to see our military move toward.

 

I think it disingenuous for either to say, "We're going to do this, period." Caution and prudence and a certain lack of arrogance that we know what the future holds is more welcome for my comfort in choosing a candidate.

 

Exactly, Pam.

 

And I would argue that McCain's words are more of a vision than a plan (as opposed to OBama's "I'll have us out of there in 16 months").

 

An old acquaintence of mine who is a big name in polling/political strategy, and who is very much a classic libertarian, and who was discouraged by the takeover of the republican party by populist/religious right, has been onboard with McCain for quite some time - he came out of retirement and hired on with McCain about two years ago. That is probably the main (if not only) reason why I am looking at McCain closely - the respect I have for one of this one particular supporter (or perhaps I should call it trust... I really trust this man's judgment and our politics square nicely). He critiqued a book about McCain, published by the Cato Institute, and you can watch a lecture about it here (ETA my acquaintance is Tarrance):

 

http://www.learnoutloud.com/Catalog/Biography/Political-Figures/John-McCain-The-Myth-of-a-Maverick/26615

[Soph the vet]

Does your candidate have a plan that specifically addresses your questions, Soph?

I wish I had a candidate:lol:! I don't know how I am going to vote yet! I am not a registered Republican if that was the implication.

[Soph the vet]

So... on one hand I should be all excited about something before it exists. On the other hand you are not going to get excited about something until it exists.

 

Thanks, Phred, that gave me a good laugh. :smilielol5: Touche. It is an apples and oranges comparison, though. And no, I wouldn't expect you to get excited about anything unless you could actually see it....that was meant affectionately of course;).

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Exactly, Pam.

 

And I would argue that McCain's words are more of a vision than a plan (as opposed to OBama's "I'll have us out of there in 16 months").

 

 

I see those words as rhetorical, much as I saw the "Pulling the troops just isn't a priority" and the "One hundred years" comments of McCain. Obama speaks of resolution and not continuing something one minute longer than necessary that should never have been started in the first place, and McCain speaks of winning and triumph and all those things Vietnam was not.

 

(Not arguing, just conversing (as you know), and thanks for the link. My dh is also a McCain man, and I respect his perspective in a similar way.)

[Robin in Tx]

I see those words as rhetorical, much as I saw the "Pulling the troops just isn't a priority" and the "One hundred years" comments of McCain. Obama speaks of resolution and not continuing something one minute longer than necessary that should never have been started in the first place, and McCain speaks of winning and triumph and all those things Vietnam was not.

 

(Not arguing, just conversing (as you know), and thanks for the link. My dh is also a McCain man, and I respect his perspective in a similar way.)

 

I gotcha... but so long as we're conversing :) ...

 

"Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months." That's from Obama's website. Verbatim. I don't know... I don't think that's rhetoric. It's McCain's website that says he does "not want to keep our troops in Iraq a minute longer than necessary to secure our interests there." (just thought I'd mention that so no one would think that this is what Obama is saying... it's actually what McCain is saying, while Obama is saying we're pulling out within 16 months regardless.)

 

The hundred years' comment is actually discussed in that lecture (which is really more a panel discussion - one guy who doesn't like McCain and one guy who does - interesting perspective (actually given by the Anti-McCain guy).

 

The discussion I linked really is interesting for anyone who wants to sit in on a thoughtful discourse. If you don't like McCain, there's plenty there for you. If you do like McCain, you'll appreciate the criticism and the response.

[Phred]

Ya know... since we're conversing and all... I was all excited about McCain eight years ago. Even up to about two years ago. Then something changed. In order to get the nomination he started ... for lack of a better word... pandering. I would like to get excited about a GOP candidate.

 

Not this time.

[Anne/Ankara]

The stimulus payments weren't for us - they were for the economy. We don't *need* them and it wasn't some sort of welfare handout. The idea is to prevent the Great Depression from happening again.

 

BUT, I thought it was stupid anyway. The only effect it seems to be having is to make politicians look good.

 

 

And I wonder, where did all that money come from? Was it simply more government bonds issued? Is that supposed to help the economy, albeit with increased government debt?

[SFP]

I wish I had a candidate:lol:! I don't know how I am going to vote yet! I am not a registered Republican if that was the implication.

 

Hey! There's nothing wrong with being a registered Republican. I'm married to one after all.

[Robin in Tx]

Ya know... since we're conversing and all... I was all excited about McCain eight years ago. Even up to about two years ago. Then something changed. In order to get the nomination he started ... for lack of a better word... pandering. I would like to get excited about a GOP candidate.

 

Not this time.

 

 

I know what you mean. I would like to get excited about a candidate. Any candidate. I've spent WAY too many elections feeling like all I was doing was comparing the cons.

 

One thing about presidential candidates, though... they always pander during the nomination process. They pander a little less, usually, during the general election. And then they forget they ever pandered once the election is over. This does have the potential to become an interesting election. I'm actually looking forward to watching both conventions.

[Soph the vet]

Ya know... since we're conversing and all... I was all excited about McCain eight years ago. Even up to about two years ago. Then something changed. In order to get the nomination he started ... for lack of a better word... pandering. I would like to get excited about a GOP candidate.

 

Not this time.

 

:iagree: believe it or not! I cannot find a candidate from any party to get excited about. I've looked at just about all of them and I think the message of John Cleese about nails it on the head, we are all going back to British citizenship (see John Cleese thread if you are confused).

 

But I will still vote of course. I'm writing in my dh, he would make a great president.:D

[Mrs Mungo]

Obama is my candidate.

 

However, there is no way we can be out of Iraq in 16 months from a logisitical standpoint. We only got all our crap back from Gulf War 1 a few years ago, I think I might have an article about it somewhere. He's dead wrong to promise this.

 

I disagree that we need a "surge" in Afghanistan. I'm sorry to say that if you think we do then you know *nothing* about what's going on there.

Would more boots on the ground have made a difference early in the war? Yes. Would it make a difference now? No, because most of the people we're fighting are no longer in Afghanistan. Can we invade Pakistan? No, because they would nuke India and try to nuke Israel.

[Kate in Arabia]

However, there is no way we can be out of Iraq in 16 months from a logisitical standpoint. We only got all our crap back from Gulf War 1 a few years ago, I think I might have an article about it somewhere. He's dead wrong to promise this.

 

He has made several promises that imo are impossible for him to keep. He is an excellent speaker, but some of his statements come across to me as very naive.

[johnandtinagilbert]

And I wonder, where did all that money come from? Was it simply more government bonds issued? Is that supposed to help the economy, albeit with increased government debt?

 

I heard we borrowed it from China....alas, more proof that we are in big trouble. Borrowing money from a country that is not our "friend," who we can't even keep in check to maintain our trade standards...."Hey, clean up your toys...umm can we borrow a few billion, buddy, so we can stimulate our economy and allow people to go buy a new, made in China tv (gotta be ready for HD, ya' know!)?" China has a growing relationship with Iran and Russia (also not really our friends).

[Holly IN]

If Obamba gets elected then NO I am not optimistic at all...We will be in for hard times probably for the next 5-8 years (if he gets elected for 2 terms). It would be more than gas and food. It will be about liberty being protected.

 

As far as gas and food prices goes then I am in the middle but will start to panic when gas hits at $5.00 a gal. We are already feeling a pinch on food budget right now.

 

Holly

[ClassicMom]

If Obamba gets elected then NO I am not optimistic at all...We will be in for hard times probably for the next 5-8 years (if he gets elected for 2 terms). It would be more than gas and food. It will be about liberty being protected.

 

Holly

 

:iagree:

[Robin in Tx]

As far as gas and food prices goes then I am in the middle but will start to panic when gas hits at $5.00 a gal

 

That will probably happen this summer sometime, so get ready. I wouldn't panic, though. I'm sorta depressed about it, and I'm extremely concerned about DH's salary (he's on 100% commission in the industrial supply business, and his salary has already tumbled quit ea bit). Long term, I'm optimistic, but short term this is going to be hard to weather.

[Kelli in TN]

If Obamba gets elected then NO I am not optimistic at all...We will be in for hard times probably for the next 5-8 years (if he gets elected for 2 terms). It would be more than gas and food. It will be about liberty being protected.

 

As far as gas and food prices goes then I am in the middle but will start to panic when gas hits at $5.00 a gal. We are already feeling a pinch on food budget right now.

 

Holly

 

I am not optimistic if Obama gets elected, but then I am no more optimistic about McCain.

 

I don't think this can be fixed from the White House. We, as a culture, need a shift in our paradigm and I think it will take some hardship to do that. I really, really don't like hardship.

[Kate in Arabia]

If Obamba gets elected then NO I am not optimistic at all...We will be in for hard times probably for the next 5-8 years (if he gets elected for 2 terms). It would be more than gas and food. It will be about liberty being protected.

 

Could you explain further?

[Donna T.]

Gone in what way? Sincere question here... exactly what does this mean? Gone? Gone, as in it is getting ready to collapse like the Soviet Union? Gone, as in another country is getting ready to conquer us? What do you mean by gone?

 

 

Gone as in we do not govern ourselves. Gone as in we are now the North America Union. Gone as in our dollar is well on the way to being replaced by the Amero. Gone as in our own country is going to conquer us. I have a grandmother that is nearing 90 years old. She says she does not even recognize this country. That's what I mean... we are changing so fast that we won't recognize ourselves soon enough.

 

I'm talking about the Bilderbirgs, the Council on National Policy, our Skull & Bones president (http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_Bones), Bohemian Grove (check that one out if you aren't prone to nightmares - (http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Grove), the Rothschilds, and any number of other individuals and groups. I'm talking about wickedness in high places.

[Robin in Tx]

Gone as in we do not govern ourselves. Gone as in we are now the North America Union. Gone as in our dollar is well on the way to being replaced by the Amero. Gone as in our own country is going to conquer us. I have a grandmother that is nearing 90 years old. She says she does not even recognize this country. That's what I mean... we are changing so fast that we won't recognize ourselves soon enough.

 

I'm talking about the Bilderbirgs, the Council on National Policy, our Skull & Bones president (http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_Bones), Bohemian Grove (check that one out if you aren't prone to nightmares - (http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Grove), the Rothschilds, and any number of other individuals and groups. I'm talking about wickedness in high places.

 

Is that what this is about? Secret society conspiracies? One Canadian economist's Amero theory that neither Canadian or US govt supports? And we are not currently the North American Union. Not the last time I checked, anyway :).

 

I'll bet when your grandmother was young, the country looked unfamiliar to her century old ancestors, too. I honestly can not think of a single country that is the exact same today as it was 100 years ago for which that is a good thing.

[Donna T.]

Okey-dokey, Robin. Time will tell.

 

Best wishes,