NC Moms - DNPE Meetings

[MinivanMom]

I have just been "invited" to "voluntarily" meet with a representative of DNPE for one of their famous meetings. They've got a whole slew of things I'm "encouraged" to bring to the meeting along with my required documents (including my children :glare:).

 

Obviously, I'll be declining their gracious invitation. Can I just throw this in the trash or is there some compelling reason why I should actually call them to decline?

 

The text of the letter says, "If you are not currently home schooling your children, please call or write us within ten days of the above date to close your home school."

 

To me that sounds like I can just do nothing and maintain the status quo, but all those italics and all that bolding and underlining is making me feel like I need to do something! Am I good to just shred this letter and get back to teaching my children?

[Dustybug]

I havent' dealt with this yet because my oldest is old enough for me to be registered yet, but could you call and ask?

[Nakia]

bumping this for you

[Ellie]

I have just been "invited" to "voluntarily" meet with a representative of DNPE for one of their famous meetings. They've got a whole slew of things I'm "encouraged" to bring to the meeting along with my required documents (including my children :glare:).

 

Obviously, I'll be declining their gracious invitation. Can I just throw this in the trash or is there some compelling reason why I should actually call them to decline?

 

The text of the letter says, "If you are not currently home schooling your children, please call or write us within ten days of the above date to close your home school."

 

To me that sounds like I can just do nothing and maintain the status quo, but all those italics and all that bolding and underlining is making me feel like I need to do something! Am I good to just shred this letter and get back to teaching my children?

Shred the letter and get back to teaching your children.

 

I can't believe DNPE is trying this again. It was an epic fail last time. :glare:

[Ellie]

I havent' dealt with this yet because my oldest is old enough for me to be registered yet, but could you call and ask?

I'm not an attorney and I don't play one on TV, but based on HSLDA's response last time DNPE tried this, I'd say that DNPE doesn't have the legal authority to require homeschoolers to meet with DNPE officials, produce any required documents except for last year's standardized tests, or bring along the children.

 

It is imperiative that homeschoolers know the law and obey the law, to the letter. Overcompliance leads to things like this.

[Melissa in NC]

Agreeing with trashing the notice and getting back to the task of homeschooling. This is what I did.

[DawnM]

UGH! I haven't received one of these and I haven't actually heard of them going out, but I would be quite irritated.

[FlyingMOm]

I received one of these last year and trashed it. No way I am doing this. But you better believe all of my paperwork is in perfect order, just in case someone came to the house (which I've never heard of happening but I like to be prepared just in case).

[DawnM]

My paperwork is not in order. I don't' take attendance. I just don't. I think it is stupid and I am not doing it unless someone tells me they need to see it.

 

I do have test scores from the last W-J I gave them and I can throw a Sonlight IG at them and tell them we are doing that! :tongue_smilie:

 

Dawn

 

I received one of these last year and trashed it. No way I am doing this. But you better believe all of my paperwork is in perfect order, just in case someone came to the house (which I've never heard of happening but I like to be prepared just in case).

[Ellie]

My paperwork is not in order. I don't' take attendance. I just don't. I think it is stupid and I am not doing it unless someone tells me they need to see it.

Nothing in the law allows DNPE to "inspect" attendance or health records.

 

I do have test scores from the last W-J I gave them and I can throw a Sonlight IG at them and tell them we are doing that! :tongue_smilie:

 

Dawn

They have a right to see test scores. They do NOT have the right to see any--not one--of your instructional materials. Ever. Under any circumstances.

[Ellie]

I received one of these last year and trashed it. No way I am doing this. But you better believe all of my paperwork is in perfect order, just in case someone came to the house (which I've never heard of happening but I like to be prepared just in case).

DNPE may only see last year's test scores. Not one piece of paper more than that. Ever.

[FlyingMOm]

DNPE may only see last year's test scores. Not one piece of paper more than that. Ever.

 

I thought they could also request to see your attendance records and your immunization records. Is that incorrect? I have current copies of all of these in one file for quick & easy access if needed.

[sheryl]

I have just been "invited" to "voluntarily" meet with a representative of DNPE for one of their famous meetings. They've got a whole slew of things I'm "encouraged" to bring to the meeting along with my required documents (including my children :glare:).

 

Obviously, I'll be declining their gracious invitation. Can I just throw this in the trash or is there some compelling reason why I should actually call them to decline?

 

The text of the letter says, "If you are not currently home schooling your children, please call or write us within ten days of the above date to close your home school."

 

To me that sounds like I can just do nothing and maintain the status quo, but all those italics and all that bolding and underlining is making me feel like I need to do something! Am I good to just shred this letter and get back to teaching my children?

 

Here's my 2cents.

 

It is NOT mandatory for your children to attend!

It is NOT mandatory for YOU to even attend, as your thread stated.

The wording at DNPE is out and out very evasive many times...very vague.

 

Why do you not want to attend? It's not obvious to me...:tongue_smilie:

 

I'm a Christian who can not stand gov't jammed down my throat (yes, I'm "pro power to the states/individuals" and "less govenment minded"). That is my preface to say that I was "invited". This is something I did NOT want to do for the above reasons. However, I prayed about it and asked the same of others. I went in and had a delightful interview with the state worker.....ALONE! It went well and I hope she saw homeschooling "cooperation" on my part and that I sent a good example for the h'schooling community at large.

 

This was about 5 years ago....they target 2nd year homeschoolers I think.

 

The italicized words do NOT apply to you so you are NOT required to notify them UNLESS you rec'd correspondence to "answer" them.

 

However, it would be courteous for you to go ahead and politely decline.

 

HTH!

[sheryl]

I'm not an attorney and I don't play one on TV, but based on HSLDA's response last time DNPE tried this, I'd say that DNPE doesn't have the legal authority to require homeschoolers to meet with DNPE officials, produce any required documents except for last year's standardized tests, or bring along the children.

 

It is imperiative that homeschoolers know the law and obey the law, to the letter. Overcompliance leads to things like this.

 

 

Now, that might be the case. They "MAY NOT" have the "legal right" to invite homeschoolers.

 

Ellie, it's a matter of semantics though. They do NOT have the legal authority to "require" attendance at an interview meeting. However, they "may" have the legal authority to "invite" homeschoolers for such a meeting. This could have changed in the last 5 years, granted.

 

You are right that all homeschoolers in every state and country should know their laws. I agree with ya!!!

[Ellie]

I thought they could also request to see your attendance records and your immunization records. Is that incorrect? I have current copies of all of these in one file for quick & easy access if needed.

They can "request" all they want, but they do not have the authority to actually *require* them.

 

Here is HSLDA's analysis of NC law. Notice this paragraph:

Although the Division of Non-Public Education has attempted to perform home visits under this provision, the law gives its officials no right to enter homes or to inspect any records besides test scores. There is also no statutory requirement for parents to attend regional meetings arranged by the Division of Non-Public Education for the purpose of reviewing their records. Copies of testing results can be simply mailed to the Division of Non-Public Education upon request.

[MinivanMom]

Thank you. We will be recycling our invitation.

[jenL]

I have not received one of these invitations, and we've been homeschooling in NC for 4 years. A friend of mine did receive one, and she attended the meeting without her children. She said it lasted about 5 minutes, and the DNPE rep was very nice. They only asked to see a record that she was testing her children, vaccination records, and attendence sheets. We are required by law in the state of NC to have these 3 pieces of information on hand. They did not ask her any other questions, but they did thank her for participating.

 

She went because she wanted to represent homeschoolers in a positive light to show that "we" are complying with the laws and doing what the state asks of us.

 

As for me, I am still unsure as to where I stand on all of this. Part of me thinks we should show them we are doing what is asked of us so they will stay out of our business, but another part of me wonders if by being compliant, they will pour more laws/regulations down our throats... It's a Catch-22 in many ways.

[DawnM]

well, good to know, although I really don't care if they do or don't. I use SL and it is pretty well outlined without me needing to do a thing.

 

Also good to know about attendance. I haven't taken it in the last 6.5 years of living in NC and don't intend to start now!

 

What is the law on test scores? How far back can they ask to see?

 

I really DO NOT anticipate being audited ever, but just curious.

 

Dawn

 

Nothing in the law allows DNPE to "inspect" attendance or health records.

 

 

They have a right to see test scores. They do NOT have the right to see any--not one--of your instructional materials. Ever. Under any circumstances.

[jenL]

well, good to know, although I really don't care if they do or don't. I use SL and it is pretty well outlined without me needing to do a thing.

 

Also good to know about attendance. I haven't taken it in the last 6.5 years of living in NC and don't intend to start now!

 

What is the law on test scores? How far back can they ask to see?

 

I really DO NOT anticipate being audited ever, but just curious.

 

Dawn

 

As for the test scores, I don't think they can go any further back than a year. I am keeping everything, but as far as I know, they just want current test scores and the kids need to be tested yearly (they "recommend" around the same time every year, but it's not required).

 

For attendance, I know of many NC moms who use their daily schedule as their attendance sheet, so your SL calendar would be just fine. For me, I use the state sheet they sent me when I received my orange card years ago. It's just easy for me to plop that in the front of my schedule binder and check the daily boxes. I've gotten into the habit, but I know I'm not required to use that sheet. It was just easy when I was starting out :D

[DawnM]

Yes, I know I need to test yearly. We do that. I have a W-J here and give that yearly.

 

If noone will even ever look at attendance, why take it? My kids are here, every single day! :001_smile:

 

Dawn

 

As for the test scores, I don't think they can go any further back than a year. I am keeping everything, but as far as I know, they just want current test scores and the kids need to be tested yearly (they "recommend" around the same time every year, but it's not required).

 

For attendance, I know of many NC moms who use their daily schedule as their attendance sheet, so your SL calendar would be just fine. For me, I use the state sheet they sent me when I received my orange card years ago. It's just easy for me to plop that in the front of my schedule binder and check the daily boxes. I've gotten into the habit, but I know I'm not required to use that sheet. It was just easy when I was starting out :D

[Nakia]

I'm confused and want to ask a sincere question. NC requires that we maintain test scores, immunization records, and annual attendance records per this page so why do some believe that the DNPE cannot ask to see those documents? If they require it, how else can they verify we are doing it but to see the documents? KWIM?

 

I don't see the big deal. I have those documents and keep good records. I haven't been asked to meet with anyone, and this is our 7th year. I am thankful to live in a state where we have so much freedom and so few requirements to homeschool.

[Ellie]

We are required by law in the state of NC to have these 3 pieces of information on hand.

But you are not required by law to allow DNPE to look at attendance or immunization records.

 

She went because she wanted to represent homeschoolers in a positive light to show that "we" are complying with the laws and doing what the state asks of us.

 

As for me, I am still unsure as to where I stand on all of this. Part of me thinks we should show them we are doing what is asked of us so they will stay out of our business, but another part of me wonders if by being compliant, they will pour more laws/regulations down our throats... It's a Catch-22 in many ways.

If DNPE wants to be sure that y'all are "complying" with the laws, then they need to get legislation passed which allows them to do that. Right now, all DNPE has the right to do is "inspect" test scores. Once y'all have filed your initial notice of intent, you're done with DNPE (except for the annual testing). Homeschoolers who over-comply by attending meetings, returning that little postcard each year, and volunteering beforehand to send in test scores chip away at the freedom y'all have in NC, and they give DNPE a false feeling of power, such that they can call for "voluntary" meetings, where homeschoolers either show up with paperwork and instructional materials in hand (and sometimes even children) to be inspected or anguish over whether or not they should.

[MinivanMom]

I'm confused and want to ask a sincere question. NC requires that we maintain test scores, immunization records, and annual attendance records per this page so why do some believe that the DNPE cannot ask to see those documents? If they require it, how else can they verify we are doing it but to see the documents? KWIM?

 

I don't see the big deal. I have those documents and keep good records. I haven't been asked to meet with anyone, and this is our 7th year. I am thankful to live in a state where we have so much freedom and so few requirements to homeschool.

 

We are required to maintain immunization records, attendance records, and test yearly. We are required to retain those test scores at the home school for at least a year, and make them available at the home school for DNPE officials to inspect. There is nothing in the law that requires you to ever show immunization or attendance records. You have to keep them, but you never have to show them to anyone. The only thing you are required to show is current test scores (within the past year). You are not required to mail those test scores in or bring them to any meetings. From the page you linked:

 

Maintain at the school disease immunization and annual attendance records for each student;

Have a nationally standardized achievement test administered annually to each student. The test must involve the subject areas of English grammar, reading, spelling, and mathematics. Records of the test results must be retained at the home school for at least one year and made available to DNPE when requested.

 

The way they say "made available to DNPE when requested" is deliberately worded in a confusing manner. If you read the actual law, you are required to make the test scores available at the home school. In other words, I don't have to show anyone my test scores unless they take the trouble to drive out to my house and look at the test scores here. The way DNPE has written it on the website makes it sound as if you merely maintain the test scores at the home school, but must make them available whenever and however DNPE requests.

 

This is the distinction that folks get worked up over and this is why so many people decline to mail in their records or bring their records to the library meetings. Technically, we don't have to show records anywhere but at our "home school".

 

Some people choose to do more than the law requires for reasons others on this thread have mentioned. We choose to do only what the law requires. NC is very proud of how thoroughly they track students' grades and test scores from pre-K through UNC grad school. I don't know if anyone else caught the article in the N&O this week about how NC is apparently the best state for tracking kids from cradle to career and is now expanding the tracking to start at early-intervention. We aren't comfortable with that. I'm not mailing in my children's test scores when I'm not legally required to do so. I'm happy to show them the scores (on the front porch) if they drive out to our house.

[pdalley]

 

Some people choose to do more than the law requires for reasons others on this thread have mentioned. We choose to do only what the law requires. NC is very proud of how thoroughly they track students' grades and test scores from pre-K through UNC grad school. I don't know if anyone else caught the article in the N&O this week about how NC is apparently the best state for tracking kids from cradle to career and is now expanding the tracking to start at early-intervention. We aren't comfortable with that. I'm not mailing in my children's test scores when I'm not legally required to do so. I'm happy to show them the scores (on the front porch) if they drive out to our house.

:iagree:

 

They are welcome here to see my paperwork as the law says but I'm not going to any meetings or sending in things.

[MamaT]

I have homeschooled in this state for 9 years and have never been asked for anything. I hope it stays that way. I was also under the impression that the attendance and immunization records were to be inspected should they ask to do so. I appreciate the clarification.

[Ellie]

If noone will even ever look at attendance, why take it? My kids are here, every single day! :001_smile:

 

Dawn

Attendance records for homeschooled children area joke. As you say, you get up every day and there they are. :lol:

[Ellie]

What is the law on test scores? How far back can they ask to see?

DNPE may only see last year's test scores. And you don't have to volunteer ahead of time to send them in. People feel so sympathetic about the amount of work those poor DNPE employees have to do, what with mailing out those (not-required-by-law) postcards, and having to file all the test results that people volunteer to send in, and homeschoolers, from what I have heard, actually volunteer to work in the office. :001_huh: The thing is that if DNPE just followed the law, all they'd have to do is file homeschoolers' one-time notice of intent, spot-request test scores, and call it a day.

[MinivanMom]

DNPE may only see last year's test scores. And you don't have to volunteer ahead of time to send them in. People feel so sympathetic about the amount of work those poor DNPE employees have to do, what with mailing out those (not-required-by-law) postcards, and having to file all the test results that people volunteer to send in, and homeschoolers, from what I have heard, actually volunteer to work in the office. :001_huh: The thing is that if DNPE just followed the law, all they'd have to do is file homeschoolers' one-time notice of intent, spot-request test scores, and call it a day.

 

What?! There are homeschoolers that volunteer at the DNPE office? I can't even wrap my mind around that! I must be hanging around with a different sort of homeschooling crowd, because I've never heard of such a thing.

[Momof3littles]

I am a former resident of NC but my son was too young to report when we were living in NC. I was active on several of the NC HSing yahoo groups.

 

I would not agree to meet w/ them. I realize they have the right to visit the HS and see test scores, and I would comply w/ that if necessary.

 

I believe the requirement for the parent/homeschool supervisor to keep certain records if someone contacts CPS, or claims "educational neglect" or the like, there is a paperwork trail. I would not give the state access to anything beyond what the law requires, and these optional meetings (worded in a manner that doesn't make them seem entirely optional) are ridiculous.

 

I'm not a fan of overcompliance and am of the mindset that it doesn't necessarily keep officials off our backs as HSers, but in many cases opens the door to additional requirements and regulations.

[Ellie]

What?! There are homeschoolers that volunteer at the DNPE office? I can't even wrap my mind around that! I must be hanging around with a different sort of homeschooling crowd, because I've never heard of such a thing.

Crazy, isn't it?

[Melissa in NC]

What?! There are homeschoolers that volunteer at the DNPE office? I can't even wrap my mind around that! I must be hanging around with a different sort of homeschooling crowd, because I've never heard of such a thing.

 

Yes, they do call for volunteers to file the test scores. Here is the kicker. My DH worked at UNC Charlotte for 5 years. The first orientation he attended was about student privacy, hence it is very important. There are assorted law regarding student privacy at all levels but none of them apply to homeschoolers. These volunteers could look up records and blab all they want about what they read and nothing could be done about it. I never sent in my records for this reason, no assurance of privacy.

[mirth]

Yes, they do call for volunteers to file the test scores. Here is the kicker. My DH worked at UNC Charlotte for 5 years. The first orientation he attended was about student privacy, hence it is very important. There are assorted law regarding student privacy at all levels but none of them apply to homeschoolers. These volunteers could look up records and blab all they want about what they read and nothing could be done about it. I never sent in my records for this reason, no assurance of privacy.

 

 

Interesting! I wouldn't send anything either!

[MinivanMom]

Yes, they do call for volunteers to file the test scores. Here is the kicker. My DH worked at UNC Charlotte for 5 years. The first orientation he attended was about student privacy, hence it is very important. There are assorted law regarding student privacy at all levels but none of them apply to homeschoolers. These volunteers could look up records and blab all they want about what they read and nothing could be done about it. I never sent in my records for this reason, no assurance of privacy.

 

That's horrible!

[Dustybug]

This thread has been very informative for me! Thank you everyone for the great information!