Maybe my ds8 is dyslexic?

[Jumping In Puddles]

I have been spending quite a bit of time this week researching dyslexia and it is making me cross-eyed! Maybe someone here can help me.

 

My 3rd grade ds (will be 9 in March) reads frustratingly slow. He guesses constantly with words and 90% of the time will skip the "s" at the end of the word or "ing", or other endings.

 

It took him about 3 seconds the other day to read the word "will" in a sentence. :confused: (his name is Will) :001_huh:

 

He can sound out any word but doesn't get the stress on some multi syllable words correctly or won't really flex the sounds to get the right vowel sound. For example: paragraph - he will say Puh Ruh Graph but I have to remind him (every time) that a can say uh but don't forget it can say ah or a.

 

He has incredible listening and comprehension skills. When we do WWE, his answers are often word for word in the sample answer which makes it easy for me to say "great!" because I know it's right! ;) He listens to me read plus he listens to audiobooks everyday. He told me audiobooks are exactly the same as watching a movie but he gets to watch it in his head. His vocabulary is excellent and he finds grammar interesting plus he speaks clearly and in complete sentences.

 

He has wonderful handwriting and his cursive is beautiful. He always has a pencil in his hand doodling or drawing and art is his favorite subject.

 

His spelling is mostly phonetic but I have not been super consistent on teaching spelling.

 

He started speaking very early and when he was a toddler, people use to comment on how brilliant he was (because he spoke so clearly and was interested in everything) and here he is almost nine and still can't read!

 

His eyes usually tear up a little bit every single day when I tell him it is time to read.

 

So does anyone think this is normal and he'll read better with just practicing or is it possible he has a problem and what I'm doing is not ever going to work?

Edited December 23, 2011 by Jumping In Puddles

[VinNY]

I would use a structured spelling program like Writing Road to Reading (Spalding) or something like that. Analysis of the words really helped my kids improve their reading. Currently, I am using Apples and Pears (morpheme approach) with my severe language impaired/dyspraxic dtr who has difficulties with spelling and reading.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[houseofkids&pets]

:iagree: I watched some of the Barton video presentations and read about all of the warning signs. I really felt that my son demonstrated many of the characteristics that Susan Barton described. We had an evaluation completed soon afterwards and he was diagnosed with dyslexia, as well as dyscalculia and dysgraphia. Having a definite diagnosis helped us to plan his academic program and helped me to realize his needs, as well as his strengths.

[Jumping In Puddles]

Thank you all for the responses. :grouphug:

 

From the Barton site, my son really only has the symptom of:

 

reversing b and d

 

slow, choppy, inaccurate reading: - guesses based on shape or context - skips or misreads prepositions (at, to, of) - ignores suffixes.

 

He has the opposite of many of the symptoms: He tied his shoes early, talked early, has never had an ear infection, large vocabulary and is great in math. :confused:

 

There is obviously a problem though! A bright 3rd grader should be able to read.

[PeterPan]

Puddles, in reality the things you've described could fit several different scenarios. He could be dyslexic. He could have vision problems. He could have ADHD (executive function and working memory issues). Any of those would get you to the exact same place with the things you're describing, and they can occur in combination. No matter WHAT, it's time to start getting some evaluations and yes you want to change your curriculum. You want an OG-based curriculum. There are tons of them. While you're waiting to decide, I suggest you see if your library has WRTR. It's not the most fancy option, but it's the same theory as a lot of the rest and is something you can probably get a hold of today. Read that, and then you'll start to understand the differences in the other programs and what you really want. And in actuality WRTR alone will be enough to help some kids. So that's a quick place to start.

 

Did someone mention the Barton pretest? You definitely want to look at that. You just want to work through the issues to see where the glitches are. If you say a sound, can he touch the letter that makes it? If you point to a letter, can he tell you the sounds? Difficulty with sounding out can actually be working memory (the ability to hold all those sounds at once).

 

Then as far as evals, I think EVERYONE should have their eyes checked, just as a matter of course. And the best type of eye doc when you're having school problems is a developmental optometrist. They can do a regular exam (same cost as any other doc) and *screen* for some other issues like convergence, tracking, etc. that affect vision. Vision could actually explain the reversals and reading issues just as easily as dyslexia. You go to http://www.covd.org to find a developmental optometrist.

 

Then you look for a neuropsych (what we used) or ed psych to do a full evaluation and find all the issues. Just so you know, when people talk on the web about dyslexia and throw out things like whether he ties his shoes, blah blah, that's NOT what the neuropsych is going to look at. The DSM coding has "reading disorder" as the label, and the neuropsych is going to differentiate that from ADHD, working memory/EF, etc. It's VERY possible to think based on online stuff that it's dyslexia, when you actually end up with an ADHD label. It's also possible, from the psych testing/DSM perspective, to *remediate* the phonemic awareness to the point they *won't* get a dyslexia/reading disorder label. My dd couldn't sound out words when she was 5, had mild reversals (which disappeared when she started sculpting btw, something the Davis people use as therapy for dyslexia), couldn't tie her shoes till she was 8-10, blah blah, BUT I taught her with SWR (OG-based) from the beginning. By the time we got to the neuropsych at 12, all that was left was the working memory and EF stuff, which we already knew she had going in.

 

So the point is, the DSM doesn't line up with the way people describe dyslexia popularly, and he might not get the labels you're thinking. It's STILL good to get the neuropsych eval and I HIGHLY recommend it, highly. It was SO helpful to us finally to get these things quantified. You're only worried about getting him reading. Think when he's in 7th or 8th and you're looking at high school and wondering what in the WORLD you're going to do, whether you should work around, what you've missed, what is personality/bent and what is a problem. You've got serious things you're facing. It's also common to *redo* the evals in 3-5 years. So If you do it now, you could re-do it in junior high and again right before college testing for accommodations. So it's good timing. It was probably the BEST $1500 I've spent on education-related stuff EVER. Honest. Yes it's a horrible amount of money. Some docs are in networks for certain insurance and the price comes down. Whatever it costs, just get it. It's going to turn up things you aren't thinking about right now, because you're just thinking in terms of "dyslexia" which isn't in the DSM (it's reading disorder, disorder of written expression, etc.) and which might *not* be the issue. Even if it is, you want to know the *rest* of what's going on, as there's usually more. Mine spent two hours going through curriculum with me, answering our questions. It was amazing.

 

The corollary to this is the advice to read across labels, not just the one you think. Go ahead and read books about dyslexia, but also read about ADHD, executive function, VSL, etc.

-Right-Brained Children in a Left-Brained World

-Smart but Scattered

-No Mind Left Behind

-anything by Halloway or the Eides

etc. etc.

 

The developmental optometrist won't take long to get into, but you *really* want to do it. They check way more than a regular optometrist. I'd go ahead and get the full exam, but if you don't want to then just get the regular and let them screen. The neuropsych will take longer to get into (1-4 months is not at all uncommon). So it's just a process you start into. But plunk out the money. That way the curriculum changes you make will be the RIGHT ones. You can spend a lot of money on curriculum only to realize you were fixing the wrong thing.

 

Oh, and I highly recommend sculpting. :)

[merry gardens]

I have been spending quite a bit of time this week researching dyslexia and it is making me cross-eyed! Maybe someone here can help me.....He started speaking very early and when he was a toddler, people use to comment on how brilliant he was (because he spoke so clearly and was interested in everything) and here he is almost nine and still can't read!

 

His eyes usually tear up a little bit every single day when I tell him it is time to read.

 

So does anyone think this is normal and he'll read better with just practicing or is it possible he has a problem and what I'm doing is not ever going to work?

First of all ((((hugs)))).

 

The definition of "dyslexia" as an official diagnosis seems to be something that changes. Whether your son is dyslexic or not, it's clear that there is some type of problem with reading. Yes, his reading will likely "get better" with practice, HOWEVER dyslexia and its various, related processing problems don't just disappear entirely once a child learns to read.

 

What you are doing might eventually work, but it doesn't sound like the most effective way to teach your child to read. I suggest you use methods developed for people with dyslexia, specifically Orton-Gillingham method (such as Barton Reading and Spelling or Wilson) or perhaps Lindamood-Bell's Seeing Stars, (since sight memory for words seems to be an issue.)

 

There is definately controversy around vision therapy, but I will suggest that you make sure your son's eyes work okay. Maybe it's something as simple as he needs glasses. Wouldn't that be a nice, easy fix? That's probably too easy to hope for, but if you haven't had his eyes checked, then you should. Sometimes two working eyes don't work together well, causing double vision or other convergence problems. Some convergence problem may correct with time as a child reads more, but those who support vision therapy suggest vision therapy for that. COVD evaluations can be expensive and vt is even more expensive. I'd take recommendations for vt with a grain of salt and only use it for more severe problems that aren't likely to ever correct on their own. But a basic eye exam definitely seems advisable.

Edited December 23, 2011 by merry gardens

[PeterPan]

If the reversals are vision-based, they can correct those with just a small amount of VT. VT is EXTREMELY helpful when it's needed and gets results VERY quickly. The other nice thing about VT is that you're not locked in. (And I wouldn't go to a doc who locked you in.) So you can do a few weeks, see if you see changes, and WALK if the doc isn't getting results. But for us we saw moderate changes in one month and RADICAL in 2-3. Reversals are so easily correctable if they're vision-based. I wouldn't be afraid of the process.

 

It's kind of interesting for parents too. Sometimes you'll get in there and realize either your own problems or your dh's were due to vision problems, so the mom will do it along. I've always been sort of quirky with peripheral vision when driving, and sure enough when I tried those exercises from my dd's stuff, I had a terrible time and had to work hard to get improvement. All the rest I was fine on. So it's not like they're going to make people need therapy who don't need it. If a person doesn't need it, it will be obvious. And if the dc does need it, the changes come pretty quickly (and visibly). It's really an amazing process. But I kind of cringe at the thought of suggesting the changes will happen naturally. It's a developmental problem, hence the name developmental optometrist. If the skills were developing naturally and in a timely fashion, you wouldn't be taking them in. It takes some sort of therapeutic intervention to nudge that process. Could be things Mom does at home or from a book, but it's SO much better to get the evals (which I think Merry did, not picking on her) and get the guidance. We honestly would NEVER have gotten to where we are today just by doing piecemeal stuff. It's both that we didn't know what to do, didn't know what we needed, AND that the actual process is so hard and filled with walls and frustration that we wouldn't have bumped through there and gotten to where we needed to be without help. We NEEDED someone to tell us where it was actual core strength, breathing patterns, etc. affecting how it felt. We needed a therapist who had btdt to tell us it was ok that it gave her headaches to try the new skills, to push us harder than we would have naturally, and to motivate dd.

[PeterPan]

BTW, lest the vision police come out, let's say this again: VT does not cure dyslexia. VT is for VISION problems. But it's VERY possible to be thinking dyslexia and have it turn out to be vision. It's very possible to have a number of labels. But all the curriculum in the world (Barton, OG, whatever) isn't going to change a vision problem. You've gotta check ALL the labels, all the rabbit trails, all the issues.

[Jumping In Puddles]

Thank you OhElizabeth and Merry, it's a lot to think about. I'm typing on my phone right now, but I'm going to do the research you both suggested when I get some time this afternoon.

 

My son gets an eye exam every 2 years on our Vision insurance plan. His vision is 25/20... So better than normal vision. I understand that I need to see a different type of eye doctor though. I hope our plan will pay for it!

[LaughingCat]

For what it's worth, if you are considering just a regular eye exam - our COVD optometrist did a regular eye exam first and only based on the results of that suggested further screening. If that is available in your area I would go with that rather go to a regular optometrist, to be told there is no problem AT ALL and then end up at a COVD optometrist less than 6 months later doing the exact same exam (how I did it).

 

In our case VT helped my DD and her main issues were just tracking and seeing double (the regular eye exam showed "there is no reason she should be seeing double" :glare:). I would say that VT got us to the point where "just practicing more" actually makes a difference - pre-VT phonics practice (researched based but not OG) improved her phonics ability but it didn't improve her actual reading. And all practice was incredibly slow and painful pre VT and do-able post VT. BUT I've certainly seen others on the board that had a different experience with VT or who think that VT is just a type of snake oil.

 

And it definitely didn't resolve all DD's issues either, so it's certainly not some kind of cure all. Which still leaves me considering the Neuropsych OhElizabeth (and others) recommends. From my pov (not having done it yet), that is kinda like VT though - some here on the boards have had a good experience and learned a lot and others have had a bad experience and feel they wasted their money .

 

So far I think the strongest pull for me toward a neuropsych is not to know what is the correct label (dyslexia/reading disorder/add/etc) but to know the actual area's where she's struggling - working memory, EF, phonics, others I don't even know about etc. Then I could hope to do remediation for those areas.

 

If only there were a clear path of what you should do and when but there is not :sigh:

 

LL

[Shellers]

BTW, lest the vision police come out, let's say this again: VT does not cure dyslexia. VT is for VISION problems. But it's VERY possible to be thinking dyslexia and have it turn out to be vision...

 

I was told the same thing.

 

My son has been diagnosed as having severe dyslexia. He does the wild guess at words but has gotten much better since we started using a "cursor". You can make one by taking an index card and cutting the corner out. You control the cursor as your son reads. Move over a word sound by sound. I've found since using the cursor, my son looks at the word he's reading instead of looking around the page for clues. If there are pictures on the page, I cover them up. Pictures are too distracting for him.

 

I found out about using a cursor from using the "Dancing Bears" reading program. My son is making so much progress with this program, he's now going back and correcting himself while reading if knows he has missed something.

[LaughingCat]

I just wanted to add that Dancing Bears Fast Track has helped DD immensely with guessing. The guessing didn't go away from the VT - DD would say "it works for me" when I would try to get her to stop. I actually think the format is similar to many other things, but the (non-Mom created) rules (cursor, must repeat the whole line if you miss a word at all) and the mini "reward" (checking the box at the end of each line) have really worked for her. And I personally like that most of the words are real words instead of nonsense words. (We don't read the stories which is the usual objection to Dancing Bears).

 

LL

[PeterPan]

Ok, what this cursor thing is doing (it sounds like) is working on tracking. Absolutely that's something to work on, but the VT doc can kick that up 20 notches. We did this where they would have words to mark. The words were in a grid, starting with 3 letters and a rather large font. They would have to read the word out loud and make a unique mark prescribed for each position, and get it all done within a certain time. You'd patch and do that with one eye and then the other, forcing each eye to work on tracking. And as you did the exercises you would increase the length of the words (3 letters, 4, 5) and then decrease the font size. So we did LOTS AND LOTS of these.

 

Lolly--I think the trick with the neuropsych is to keep looking until you find someone you think you can be happy with. Took me an entire year. Admittedly I didn't look constantly. I'm just saying these people DON'T climb out of the woodwork and sometimes ARE a little hard to find. It's good to have someone tell you a name. Or try googling your state's dyslexia association and see if any names turn up through that. Some of these docs are on boards or do lectures and things that make them appear online. Then when you talk with them you have just your subjective assessment about how confident you feel in them and how thorough they'll be. Ours spent 6 hours testing, an hour and a half talking with me before, 2 hours talking after, and still has a write-up coming. And he watched and commented on the video I gave him of her doing school work, etc. You'll hear all kinds of things as far as amount of time, etc., but these people are at least upfront and tell you what they normally do.

 

For us the np eval was INVALUABLE. I should have done it ages ago, and you can BET I'm planning to do one when my ds hits 5. Not gonna even BLINK AN EYE on that one. Maybe it's not valuable to someone else. Maybe other people can sort through these issues themselves. For me, it helped so much to have things quantified, to have the right words, to have the words be out in the open, and frankly to get a pat on the back that a "professional" actually thinks we're going the right way. If you're gonna swim a different direction in the stream, it's nice to know somebody else thinks you're ok, kwim? But admittedly I'm over-exuberant. Nothing says you have to be as happy or blabbermouth as I am to have it be a positive, worthwhile experience. I think it would be super-cool to go the Eides out in Seattle, but that wasn't my reality. I decided a local man, someone on a state dyslexia board, someone who didn't blink an eye at the extreme incongruities I was seeing, someone who had a very calm measured demeanor, would be good enough for me. And he has been. And btw, he's less than 1/2 the price of going someplace like the Eides. So that's all to say good is good enough. Any of these people can measure processing speed, EF, working memory, blah blah. Doesn't take a super-duper specialist to do that. The golden part is when you have someone who will tell you what to DO with that info. But you know, life isn't perfect. Take what you can get. I'd rather have that info and come on the boards trying to figure out what to DO with it, rather than not have the info at all.

[Amy Jo]

My 9 yo is making progress, and he has gotten several words to the point of 'sight words'. (He has struggled at every step, we had to start at him visualizing the story in his head - sounds like your son does that beautifully!)

 

Since he is progressing, we are going to continue on with what we are doing. SWR and daily reading. (He has a card in his chores to remind him to read.) I think the reading (he's read Little Bear books, a Frog & Toad, Jemima Puddle-duck and Hop on Pop recently - we told the older two once they read 100 books we would give them $50 as a prize). I'm going to have us do more recognition work on his spelling words.

 

After the holidays, I am going to start Webster's with him. I'm doing that with my 7 yo, and I think it will CLEARLY demonstrate when to schwa and why, as it groups words by accent.

 

If progress stalls we will try Apples and Pears, as well as pursue a more formal diagnosis. (We've done the vision exam already. If possible, get a doctor who has skills with children. Ours really had my DS worried with his manner, he was just very abrupt.)

 

ETA: When he is reading aloud I help whenever needed. I want him to enjoy reading, not be tortured! So I will tell him if it's 'through' or 'museum' or 'could'. If he guesses (he's not horrible at guessing, but often any short word starting with TH is the), I either tell him the word (if its a more difficult one) or I tap the page lightly under the word so he can try again.

 

Oh - and try out Elizabeth's Phonics Concentration Game. It makes real and nonsense words, and both my boys LOVE to play it.

Edited December 24, 2011 by mtcougar832

[Lecka]

We have used the notch card a little and it is part of I See Sam.

 

It is supposed to help children to blend. It is also supposed to prevent them from wild guessing from looking at the first letter or the first and last letter.

 

I am SURE it also helps tracking -- but it does help with the language side, too.

[LaughingCat]

I don't think the notched card is just for tracking - in our case we had finished 3/4 of VT before starting FT so her tracking was already much improved and the notched card made a big difference for guessing not for tracking. I think it's because it forced her to actually look at each sound rather than seeing the first sound and then guessing the rest.

 

Now I must admit I only used the card the first week or so - DD strongly dislikes it so I let it go - except any time she guessed, then the notched card came back out. Now when it happens I just say "Do I need to get the card out?" and sometimes she says yes and then moves it herself and sometimes she says no and stops guessing (and sometimes she whines, moans, and throws a fit :glare: ). The change in the amount of guessing is HUGE though - very similar to the change in tracking we got from VT. Really the change in fit throwing is huge too - pre-VT every reading session was a fight, post VT it went down to maybe once a week, and 3/4 into FT, it's really only when she's really tired.

 

Things are definitely not perfect but both VT and FT have been worth it IMO. We're doing Apples & Pears too for what that's worth - I like it and DD likes it - but it's harder for me to tell it if it's "doing anything" or not.

 

Thanks for the thoughts on the neuropsych, OhElizabeth - I will keep looking :001_smile:

 

LL

[Jumping In Puddles]

Thank you all for the discussion. :grouphug:

 

I am going to make an appointment for vision therapy and a neuropsych evaluation.

 

Now, I am off to search the boards too for reading and spelling programs.

 

Thanks again!

[Jumping In Puddles]

Yesterday, both my children went to a developmental optometrist to get their vision checked.

 

The doctor said he would probably need about 46 weeks of VT (when the average is about 32) because he has severe needs in all areas of vision.

 

Then she checked my dd7 and said she has more vision problems than ds!

 

I don't remember the exact terms the doctor used for their problems but one thing I remember is that she said my son never crossed the midline in her tests. He always turns his head to look with one eye... but she is surprised he can tie his shoes. Something strange is that he was the first kid in Kindergarten class to tie his shoes and he knows dozens of knots from cub scouts! So I'm not sure what to think about that.

 

She said today, try having him read with one eye covered and see if that makes a difference in how accurate his reading is.

 

He has a neuropsych eval scheduled for February.

[choirfarm]

 

I don't remember the exact terms the doctor used for their problems but one thing I remember is that she said my son never crossed the midline in her tests. He always turns his head to look with one eye... but she is surprised he can tie his shoes. Something strange is that he was the first kid in Kindergarten class to tie his shoes and he knows dozens of knots from cub scouts! So I'm not sure what to think about that.

 

She said today, try having him read with one eye covered and see if that makes a difference in how accurate his reading is.

 

He has a neuropsych eval scheduled for February.

I'm glad you got some of it figured out. I was about to post that my daughter had some of the EXACT symptoms as your son. We did VT for 1st -2nd grade. Now as a 4th grader she is a voracious reader. I think you will be happy with the VT. She also didn't cross the midline and couldn't track at all and had rt/left problems.. ( Which I think is weird.... she could hold up her rt hand. She knew her rt from left, but on a written page she would get all mixed up. We spent a lot of time on that skill.)

[Jumping In Puddles]

I'm glad you got some of it figured out. I was about to post that my daughter had some of the EXACT symptoms as your son. We did VT for 1st -2nd grade. Now as a 4th grader she is a voracious reader. I think you will be happy with the VT. She also didn't cross the midline and couldn't track at all and had rt/left problems.. ( Which I think is weird.... she could hold up her rt hand. She knew her rt from left, but on a written page she would get all mixed up. We spent a lot of time on that skill.)

 

That's funny about the R/L problems! The doctor asked if they knew their L/R and I said they did -- I asked them to hold up their left hand, touch r knee etc. and they did great! On the vision test, they confused l/r and up down.. weird!

[Laurie4b]

Thank you all for the responses. :grouphug:

 

From the Barton site, my son really only has the symptom of:

 

reversing b and d

 

slow, choppy, inaccurate reading: - guesses based on shape or context - skips or misreads prepositions (at, to, of) - ignores suffixes.

 

He has the opposite of many of the symptoms: He tied his shoes early, talked early, has never had an ear infection, large vocabulary and is great in math. :confused:

 

There is obviously a problem though! A bright 3rd grader should be able to read.

 

Pay attention to the reading symptoms. The others could be there, but not always. Of my two sons with dyslexia, one had none of the possibly co-morbid symptoms listed; the other had one.

 

The most important symptoms are those associated directly with reading and phonemic awareness, such as the ability to rhyme. Can your son read regular, short vowel nonsense words like grud, plib, fush, etc.? Does he intermix sounds within words while speaking or reading? (Like pacific for specific) or leave out sounds or letters when spelling?

[Laurie4b]

First of all ((((hugs)))).

 

The definition of "dyslexia" as an official diagnosis seems to be something that changes. Whether your son is dyslexic or not, it's clear that there is some type of problem with reading. Yes, his reading will likely "get better" with practice, HOWEVER dyslexia and its various, related processing problems don't just disappear entirely once a child learns to read.

 

What you are doing might eventually work, but it doesn't sound like the most effective way to teach your child to read. I suggest you use methods developed for people with dyslexia, specifically Orton-Gillingham method (such as Barton Reading and Spelling or Wilson) or perhaps Lindamood-Bell's Seeing Stars, (since sight memory for words seems to be an issue.)

 

There is definately controversy around vision therapy, but I will suggest that you make sure your son's eyes work okay. Maybe it's something as simple as he needs glasses. Wouldn't that be a nice, easy fix? That's probably too easy to hope for, but if you haven't had his eyes checked, then you should. Sometimes two working eyes don't work together well, causing double vision or other convergence problems. Some convergence problem may correct with time as a child reads more, but those who support vision therapy suggest vision therapy for that. COVD evaluations can be expensive and vt is even more expensive. I'd take recommendations for vt with a grain of salt and only use it for more severe problems that aren't likely to ever correct on their own. But a basic eye exam definitely seems advisable.

 

:iagree: The super-majority of dyslexia cases are caused by problems with phonemic awareness: "getting" that words are made up of sounds. Most people's brains can do this automatically. The brains of most dyslexics cannot.

 

Some problems that look like vision problems are not. For instance, kids with dyslexia who are bright will anticipate what the sentence will say and will fill in words that have no relation to the word printed, though surprisingly often have the same meaning. For instance, "When I was a young woman, I had an accident the first year I was married. I dreaded telling my _____." Suppose the word was "spouse." A dyslexic could well read "husband". My child with the most severe dyslexia would, in a few paragraphs of text on a diagnostic tool, make 20+ errors (supposedly meaning it was way above his head) and yet get all the comprehension questions correct. Reversal of bs and ds can be normal up to age 8. We tend to automatically assume that the reversal problems are causing the reading and they can sometimes. (For instance, I once worked with an 11 year old, who when presented with a b and d together couldn't tell whether they were the same or different. That is clearly a visual processing problem. With a child who is not reading, though, this can persist not as a cause of reading problems, but as an effect. Practice at distinguishing that comes with reading practice is lagging, so recognition of bs and ds can also lag.

 

The first intervention I would attempt would be something in the Phonographix family, such as Reading Reflex. This is the fastest way to help a child with dyslexia. It doesn't always work and some kids need something more methodical like Barton or Wilson; however, if it's going to work, you'll know within about 2 months, so you haven't wasted tons of time.

 

Read Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz and this online publication: http://lincs.ed.gov/publications/pdf/PRFbooklet.pdf

 

I would also strongly consider a tutor to jump start the process. My first choice would be a Phonographix tutor; the second choice would be a Wilson or other Orton-Gillingham tutor. That way you can learn the technique and have professional guidance and until you totally get it, your child can be making progress.

 

I would also ask around and see if there is a good neuropsychologist in your area and get an evaluation. You can usually have part of these done at the local public school for free if money is an issue. (See if the public school will do a WISC (the IQ test that most professionals use. Some schools will use a different one. You really want the WISC. They will definitely do an achievement test such as the Woodcock Johnson.)

[Heathermomster]

My 9 yo is making progress, and he has gotten several words to the point of 'sight words'. (He has struggled at every step, we had to start at him visualizing the story in his head - sounds like your son does that beautifully!)

 

Since he is progressing, we are going to continue on with what we are doing. SWR and daily reading. (He has a card in his chores to remind him to read.) I think the reading (he's read Little Bear books, a Frog & Toad, Jemima Puddle-duck and Hop on Pop recently - we told the older two once they read 100 books we would give them $50 as a prize). I'm going to have us do more recognition work on his spelling words.

 

I just wanted to mention that the Scottish Rite Learning Centers provided dyslexia screening for free to everyone. You may want to consider finding out if there is one in your area. The only bad thing about Scottish Rite is that they don't perform IQ testing. Some gifted children compensate so well that their dyslexia is difficult to detect without an IQ test.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Heathermomster
can't type or spell for beans

[PeterPan]

Yesterday, both my children went to a developmental optometrist to get their vision checked.

 

The doctor said he would probably need about 46 weeks of VT (when the average is about 32) because he has severe needs in all areas of vision.

 

Then she checked my dd7 and said she has more vision problems than ds!

 

I don't remember the exact terms the doctor used for their problems but one thing I remember is that she said my son never crossed the midline in her tests. He always turns his head to look with one eye... but she is surprised he can tie his shoes. Something strange is that he was the first kid in Kindergarten class to tie his shoes and he knows dozens of knots from cub scouts! So I'm not sure what to think about that.

 

She said today, try having him read with one eye covered and see if that makes a difference in how accurate his reading is.

 

He has a neuropsych eval scheduled for February.

 

Well good, I'm glad you got this checked! Your eye doc probably explained this, but when kids are really bright, they can cover up a lot of the symptoms with compensating tricks. That's why it doesn't show up in some kids till they hit this age (4th grade ish), because they've been compensating.

[Rod Everson]

 

My 3rd grade ds (will be 9 in March) reads frustratingly slow. He guesses constantly with words and 90% of the time will skip the "s" at the end of the word or "ing", or other endings.

 

He can sound out any word but doesn't get the stress on some multi syllable words correctly or won't really flex the sounds to get the right vowel sound. For example: paragraph - he will say Puh Ruh Graph but I have to remind him (every time) that a can say uh but don't forget it can say ah or a.

 

I trained in Phono-Graphix, but then went on to develop what I consider a much more effective multisyllable curriculum (based on results with a couple of hundred kids that I worked with one-on-one over a decade). That system, The OnTrack Reading Multisyllable Method, is free on my website, and is very easy to teach. I've seen dozens of kids switch from guessing to decoding as they quickly gained confidence in the method.

 

That said, after reading your later posts, don't do anything with a reading program until he's gone through enough vision therapy to be reading more comfortably than he now is.

He has wonderful handwriting and his cursive is beautiful. He always has a pencil in his hand doodling or drawing and art is his favorite subject.

 

My guess is that he's found a way to write while using only one eye, either by closing one, covering one, or else his vision is so messed up that he's actually only looking at the end of the pencil with one eye. The pencil is performing the function that a finger, or a notched card, performs when kids with vision problems are asked to read.

His spelling is mostly phonetic but I have not been super consistent on teaching spelling.

 

We learn to spell primarily by visualizing what we've already seen. That's especially true of one-syllable words where there's no real logic to a lot of spellings. Is it "their" or "there", or "one" or "won"? Sounds like "run" so I'll go with "wun". If his vision is messed up, he hasn't "seen" enough words correctly to enable him to visualize a correct spelling later. That said, he might never be a good speller. It's a skill learned over a lifetime, and he might not have the interest, given the start he's gotten. Worse things could happen than being a poor speller, and if he likes to write, he'll get better.

 

His eyes usually tear up a little bit every single day when I tell him it is time to read.

 

So does anyone think this is normal and he'll read better with just practicing or is it possible he has a problem and what I'm doing is not ever going to work?

 

As you've learned going through the rest of the thread, it's not normal, and he has a vision problem. Whether VT will fix it is, of course, another issue, but I saw enormous progress with many kids I worked with. More important, following VT, I could work with almost every kid. At that point, they become much more able to learn both phonics, and just how to read in general. If they've had enough phonics before VT, sometimes it just "kicks in finally" and the VT alone is enough to get them reading well. VT doesn't teach reading, but in my experience, it certainly is capable of enabling reading.

 

As for telling b from d, here's a page on my site describing a method that worked for virtually every child I saw (about 1/3 of the kid I worked with would confuse them at first.) Telling b from d (out of Romalda Spalding's Writing Road to Reading). The beauty of it is it works for both reading and writing, and it doesn't interrupt comprehension because it's primarily tactile. Again, wait until VT has progressed a bit before worrying about b/d and maybe it will straighten out on its own. VT therapists do some work on that anyway, as part of visualization exercises.

 

All the best...Rod

 

OnTrack Reading

[CatholicMom]

Whoa. This is my first post here and I signed up to these forums in order to search and ask about my sons's dyslexia issues.

 

I just wanted to tell you, Jumping In Puddles, that my son sounds strangely similar to yours! I laughed out loud when I read the part about him having a hard time reading the word "will" and his name is Will. LOL! That reminds me so much of my son. It pains ME every day to listen to him read (though I try to hide it, of course). My son doesn't seem to immediately see root words and endings like I do. It seems like the whole word is mushed together and his mind doesn't immediately notice the "ing" on the end. He also will add in other sounds that aren't there at ALL when reading simple, 3-letter words! Yet, he's clearly not a dummy. My son is also 8 - will be 9 in May.

 

Like yours, my son also talked early. He even strummed his toy guitar and sang songs when he was only 3 so well that people were surprised and loved the entertainment. He LOVES art and crafts and music. He picks up on tunes very easily and memorizes parts of movies after watching it once or twice. Weird. And strangely (!!) he has told me the exact same thing your son said about listening to something and watching a movie in his head. He loves audio books and also told me he watches "the movie in his head" in bed at night when his little brother is watching a movie downstairs and he can hear the audio.

 

He is clearly bright, we have done loads of phonics, YET he going to be in 4th grade next year and makes tons of mistakes while reading. He loves books and stories so it makes me feel bad when he's trying to read a book and I correct his mistake yet again and his face gets red and he starts tearing up out of utter despair and frustration. I always tell my husband that reading is like a mental marathon for him. He's trying SO hard and it's SUCH a struggle, yet there's not much progress to show for it. What gives?

 

Anyway, just wanted to share the strange similarities there. I haven't done vision testing but I'm pretty convinced he can SEE fine. I don't know about tracking and all that stuff. I'm very clueless. All I know is he needs to be tested and I need to know how I should be teaching him.

 

I'm pretty convinced he has some degree of dyslexia or something very similar. My does also confuse b's, d's, writes p's backwards, writes numbers backwards all the time (02 instead of 20).

 

Have you had any luck? Are there any legit mail-order tests I can buy? How are you / did you get your son evaluated for dyslexia?

 

Oh, my son is also a pretty bad speller. He wrote this today for his journal: "Frst I got up ubout 6:00. I hrd (heard) Dabby giting Isaiah. Then we at brkfist wall (while) Dabby red a book to us. Then Mamy woc (woke) up. Finally (I told him how to spell that) we bib scol. the end

 

Apparently we bibn't do enough scol. LOL!! just kidding. :lol: Oy, I need to laugh sometimes.

 

Please let me know if you've found any resources (especially a reliable test I can give him at home) that you've found useful. We are in a similar boat!

 

OH, and we are now using All About Spelling and though, as you can see, my son's spelling isn't too stellar, it has improved! And I LOVE how it's laid out and so organized. Plus it's VERY similar to the Barton method or whatever it's called, as you will see. So definitely check out All About Spelling if you haven't yet.

 

Tara

[jujsky]

. The other nice thing about VT is that you're not locked in. (And I wouldn't go to a doc who locked you in.) So you can do a few weeks, see if you see changes, and WALK if the doc isn't getting results.

 

Depending on where the OP lives, that might not be true. There was one VT place in close driving distance for us, and we were locked in. They didn't offer any sort of pay-as-you-go program, and scared us into signing up with them with their report. We had to plunk down $2,000 for 6 months of appointments 2X/week. We knew within the first few weeks that it wasn't working for DS -- mostly because they sold us on their sensory room that was going to be done in "just a few weeks" so kids with ADHD and sensory issues would be able to do some of their activities on the Wii or jumping on a trampoline. 6 months later, it was no closer to being done. My friend went for a consult a year after that, I think, and the sensory room STILL wasn't done. Sitting in front of a computer for 45 minutes 2X/week when you're 6, have sensory processing disorder, and the only accommodation that is made for you is a weighted lap pad doesn't work too well. I know it's worked for a lot of people here, and I believe it CAN work, but much of it depends on whether the child and facility are a good match, and whether the person working with your child has a lot of experience. The eye doctor was not the one conducting the therapy with DS -- it was some assistant who obviously had very little experience working with special needs kids. It didn't work for our son. He gained nothing from it. I think that was primarily because the facility was a bad fit for him, but in retrospect, I think the doctor was quick to say he had all sorts of problems because he wanted our money. He did very little to remedy the problems we dealt with on the multiple occasions we complained to him.

 

Also, not to continue to be Debbie Downer here, but you'll be extremely lucky if you get a neuropsych evaluation for $1,500 as another poster mentioned. I absolutely think you should get one, but be aware that they can be shockingly expensive. I've heard of them costing as much as $8,000. Around here, the cheapest one is close to $3,000. The one we just had done for our son is going to cost over $4,500 (that's more of the high-end range here, but it's Boston Children's Hospital) unless insurance pays for it -- but much of that will depend on the diagnosis. It's the only diagnostic test I know of that is paid or not paid by insurance depending on the results. If it's ADHD, most insurance companies won't pay for it unless they diagnose multiple issues. 2 friends of mine have had them done, and insurance only paid half because the children were both diagnosed with ADHD and something else. I've heard that some colleges will do neuropsych testing at a considerably lower price or even for free, but I couldn't find anything like that around here. If you're lucky, you'll find something like that where you live.

[PeterPan]

Tara, if you get his eyes checked, you want a developmental optometrist from COVD. But obviously get feedback on them. The one Julie got stuck with sounds like one scuzzy fellow! :(

[Jumping In Puddles]

Please let me know if you've found any resources (especially a reliable test I can give him at home) that you've found useful. We are in a similar boat!

 

OH, and we are now using All About Spelling and though, as you can see, my son's spelling isn't too stellar, it has improved! And I LOVE how it's laid out and so organized. Plus it's VERY similar to the Barton method or whatever it's called, as you will see. So definitely check out All About Spelling if you haven't yet.

 

Tara

 

:lol: Your son does sound exactly like my son, wow! I ordered AAS and just received it on Monday and I'm hoping this will help. Good to know your ds has improved with it!

 

I had a neuropsych eval scheduled for ds but cancelled it because I didn't have the money. I believe it was going to be about $800 for the evaluation and my insurance may cover it, but I need to be sure first.

 

I was sure my ds was seeing just fine but my insurance covered a VT eval and vision test. Since my last post, I took him for a second opinion and paid out of pocket for it (BC/BS may cover it as a second opinion but I didn't want to take the kids to VT for 40 weeks if the first Doc. was wrong.)

 

The second opinion doc (Dr. Press) told me the same thing as the first doc and that my son has dyslexic tendencies that should disappear with VT. If they don't disappear, ds will be given a dyslexic test during VT but in his opinion, ds is not dyslexic.

 

I asked Dr. Press what would happen if my son did not get VT and he told me he would always struggle with reading. If he were in school and wasn't tested for vision, he would be labeled "learning disabled" and possibly dyslexic.

 

The two VT evaluations were quite different. The one covered by insurance, Dr. Roberts, gave what seemed like a regular eye exam but maybe more thorough. So you know when you look through the eye exam machine and you're asked "which is clearer: 1 or 2?" etc.? Well there were a few more tests than a normal eye exam like that. "Is the line above the dot or next to the dot"...etc.

 

At Dr. Press's office (PressVision) my son was given a paragraph to read with special goggles that tracked his eyes as he read. He looked into another machine (looked like high tech binoculars) and had to draw on a digital pad what he saw in the binoculars. They had some sort of color sorting activity. My kids thought the tests at Dr. Press' office were way more fun but Dr. Press came to the same conclusion as the first doc. except he didn't see one thing the first doctor saw. He said that my ds gets worse as he gets fatigued and he may have been fatigued during the first exam.

 

Dr. Press also has a HUGE practice and I'm surprised so many people know about VT because my thread here, is the first I've EVER heard of it! :eek: I wanted to interview everyone in the waiting room, lol!

 

 

Also, not to continue to be Debbie Downer here, but you'll be extremely lucky if you get a neuropsych evaluation for $1,500 as another poster mentioned. I absolutely think you should get one, but be aware that they can be shockingly expensive.

 

I was going to wait on the neuropsych eval but now I think I'll look at universities. I wonder if UMDNJ, Rutgers or Montclair offers this. I'll check it out!

 

Tara, if you get his eyes checked, you want a developmental optometrist from COVD. But obviously get feedback on them. The one Julie got stuck with sounds like one scuzzy fellow! :(

How do you find feedback on the doctors? No one I know has ever heard of VT and I googled "Dr. Press, pressvision" and I get a lot about the doctor from his professional activities but no one saying "Dr. Press is wonderful" (LOL)

 

So if anyone on here is from NJ and been to Dr. Press... please let me know!!

Edited February 9, 2012 by Jumping In Puddles

[Jumping In Puddles]

 

The developmental optometrist won't take long to get into, but you *really* want to do it. They check way more than a regular optometrist. I'd go ahead and get the full exam, but if you don't want to then just get the regular and let them screen. The neuropsych will take longer to get into (1-4 months is not at all uncommon). So it's just a process you start into. But plunk out the money. That way the curriculum changes you make will be the RIGHT ones. You can spend a lot of money on curriculum only to realize you were fixing the wrong thing.

 

Oh, and I highly recommend sculpting. :)

 

Since I have 2 doctors who have told me my son has a serious vision problem, should I really get on a waiting list and put out the money for a neuropsych evaluation? I know you said kids often have more than one problem but would it hurt to look at where he is after 6 months of VT and see if there are any issues? Or wait 6 months and get the eval even if there seem to be no issues?

 

Thank you!:grouphug:

 

My kids love sculpting clay... will it be more beneficial if they were taking a sculpting class or can they just play with the clay?

[Rod Everson]

 

Anyway, just wanted to share the strange similarities there. I haven't done vision testing but I'm pretty convinced he can SEE fine. I don't know about tracking and all that stuff.

 

Tara

 

If I had a dollar for every time a child with a binocular vision problem has been told that their child's vision is "just fine" I'd probably be a millionaire. The problem is that the acuity is fine, but the vision skills are not, which can cause significant confusion when trying to read.

 

Kids struggling with reading often have problems getting both eyes to work together. Much more about that on my site at: The Vision Piece of the Dyslexia Puzzle.

 

And if you get to the point where you're looking for a developmental optometrist, the page Find a Vision Therapy Provider should help you find one who will actually help you.

 

By the way, someone asked about Dr. Press in NJ. If it's Dr. Leonard Press, he's one of the more prominent developmental optometrists in the U.S.

 

All the best,

 

Rod

[Heathermomster]

So how do you know whether your dyslexic child should be tested? My DS is 12yo. He was diagnosed by age 7 and reads well thanks to Wilson. He's been neuro tested twice and the idea of vision problems has never come up?

[Jumping In Puddles]

 

By the way, someone asked about Dr. Press in NJ. If it's Dr. Leonard Press, he's one of the more prominent developmental optometrists in the U.S.

 

All the best,

 

Rod

 

Great, because that's the guy my ds is going to! He starts in two weeks. :001_smile:

[Rod Everson]

So how do you know whether your dyslexic child should be tested? My DS is 12yo. He was diagnosed by age 7 and reads well thanks to Wilson. He's been neuro tested twice and the idea of vision problems has never come up?

 

I don't know if you were addressing me or not, but in my opinion if a child shows signs of struggling with reading, the first money spent should be on getting a vision evaluation by a developmental optometrist.

 

The problem with going the medical route is that all they tend to do is evaluate and prescribe accommodations. While these can work to make the problem "livable" I've found that fixing the vision problems can make the problem virtually disappear in at least some cases.

 

A combination of vision therapy, followed by a remedial phonics program will, in my opinion (based on some pretty extensive experience) turn most kids considered "dyslexic" into pretty normal students. In fact, since many dyslexics are actually pretty smart kids, it often turns them into excellent students.

 

I know these kids often have other issues. That's why I think of dyslexia as a "pattern of delayed development, often across several skills." But from an academic standpoint, if they can read, they can usually progress. And besides, most of the other developmental issues (ADHD, immune system issues, poor gross motor development, etc.) often work themselves out by adulthood. As adults, most of the time the only thing that distinguishes them from other adults is that they can't read very well, or hardly at all in some cases.

 

Rod Everson

OnTrack Reading

[PeterPan]

Since I have 2 doctors who have told me my son has a serious vision problem, should I really get on a waiting list and put out the money for a neuropsych evaluation? I know you said kids often have more than one problem but would it hurt to look at where he is after 6 months of VT and see if there are any issues? Or wait 6 months and get the eval even if there seem to be no issues?

 

Thank you!:grouphug:

 

My kids love sculpting clay... will it be more beneficial if they were taking a sculpting class or can they just play with the clay?

 

I'm sorry, I missed your post on this! What Rod E said is right on. For your end, your money is best spent to fix the eyes first and then do evals to see what is left. That's what I did, and it's logical.

[CatholicMom]

I called up my usual optometrist and asked if he did the tracking tests and all (nope) and he recommended a local ophthalmologist who tests for that stuff.

 

Is there any reason I should look for a "developmental optometrist," or can I make an appointment with this guy?

 

Hope I'm not annoyingly butting into the OP's thread. Carry on.:) Just wondered real quick because I'm trying to figure out the same stuff so I figured why start a new thread on the same topic. Thanks.

[PeterPan]

No, you don't want an opthamologist. They're infamous for telling people they don't have the problems. You want a developmental optometrist from COVD. *Sometimes* you'll find a stray opthamologist who does VT and is knowledgable. I know of one near us, and frankly the feedback is really questionable. Just go with a developmental optometrist from COVD.

[Rod Everson]

 

Is there any reason I should look for a "developmental optometrist," or can I make an appointment with this guy?

 

 

 

Elizabeth is exactly correct. The ophthalmologists, as a group, tend to downplay the very idea of vision therapy, so the odds of yours being one of the few who realize its worth are slim.

 

But then there are also COVD optometrists who don't have stellar reputations, or who have reputations for corralling patients at high cost and getting subpar results, so you do have to do some investigating on your own, usually by contacting parents of patients, which the successful practices are often willing to supply as references. Find a Vision Therapy Provider on my site has some suggestions on how to proceed.

 

(By the way, I should probably explain that the reason I link to my site so much is because I used to write the same answers over and over on sites like this years ago, and finally just organized it all in one place so I could refer people to it. I can make the information more detailed that way also.)

 

Rod

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

:grouphug: Thanks for stepping up and asking about reading problems.\

I am in the same boat with a dd 8 who is struggling ( for 4 years) to learn how to read. I am sure that she has some type of problem and am planning on calling a Dr. I just found out about.

 

Diane Craft has some books, flashcards, and recommended supplements on her website. I have a friend who is using her materials with some success, but her dd is older and still can't read well.

 

From all of the research I have done, I am just sticking with Alphabet Island this year, just bought Reader Rabbit Wii games, and now the older version PC game which was recommended on Amazon as better than new versions. I also am using 100 ez lessons with my dd8 and dd6 3 days a week. We have tried many approaches and just had to put them away for awhile to not keep frustrating dd8. The main problem I have now is her older sister who learned to read at 3 on her own motivation and is gifted, but not nice to her little sister. She also gets embarrassed at church when asked to read.

 

It may be a life long struggle, and I am willing to help her however I can, it is just tough not knowing the actual cause.

[TAKlinda]

The best way to increase reading fluency is to use colored highlighters with decoding word lists. If letter reversals are a problem, use ReverseFixUp.