Forgiveness and Reconciliation.

[Sweetpeach]

Hivers, please tell me your thoughts on forgiveness and reconcilation.

 

Over the past year, I've found myself in tricky friendship situations . . . and so, there's been two different moments of feeling very cut or hurt by a friends words or actions . . . I feel that I've forgiven both of these folks. I understand forgiveness.

 

What I'm grappling with is the reconcilation part . . . I don't feel reconciled with either of these women, which means I don't feel like I want to lean into them or press into their friendship offerings.

 

The tricky part is I genuinely like both of these women.

 

At some point, I'll need to revisit these relationships and try to explain that I don't feel reconciled -- I don't feel like I have any words to describe that "Yes, I forgive you" but "No, I don't feel like our relationship can progress based on how you handled my moment of feeling cut (defensive, angry, how-dare-you-point-out-my-weaknesses sort of attitude?)

 

Any wise thoughts about forgiveness and reconcilation?

 

Thank you, Tricia

[Plaid Dad]

Forgiveness is always possible, but I'm not convinced that reconciliation - picking up the relationship and continuing on - is or even should be. There are some people who are simply not willing or able to change their behavior to the point that a friendship is really possible. Even in less extreme cases, I think it's understandable that there may be a period of coolness or distance after a conflict. I do think it's to everyone's benefit to be honest (with grace and tact) about why you're not able to carry on as before. Injuries to the heart or spirit take time to heal, and, sad as it is, sometimes a friendship just needs to be laid to rest.

 

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. I've been there, and it's very painful. Hope things resolve themselves peacefully for all involved.

[FlockOfSillies]

then you haven't truly forgiven them.

 

I can understand wanting to be more cautious in the future so you don't get burned again. That's normal. But forgiveness, in my mind at least, means you really do let it go and you don't dwell on it or bring it up again.

 

I guess the best analogy I can think of is when one of your dc does something wrong, but you realize it's because he's not ready for that level of responsibility. So you make a note to yourself to not allow him to do it again until he shows he's responsible enough.

 

I think we have to do that with adults sometimes. My mom is a good example. She's done a lot of really bad things (mostly things she's said), and I've forgiven and forgotten most of them. I've finally realized that she doesn't have a filter for her mouth -- whatever comes into her head, she says, no matter how silly, or paranoid, or irrational, or filthy. Now, I can't have the kind of relationship I'd like to have with her, because she's simply not capable. But I still have a relationship with her. If I'm feeling an abiding anger toward her, though, the problem is with *me*.

 

It's 4 a.m. Does any of this make sense at all?

[beansprouts]

You didn't ask for a Christian answer, but this is the only perspective from which I can understand this issue...

 

Forgiveness is between you and God. It is giving up your anger and bitterness to God so these feelings can no longer hurt you. Reconciliation is between you and the other person. Whenever possible, reconciliation should be sought. However, we may in some circumstances (abusive relationships for example) decide that reconciliation is not in our best interests. We still love the person and we pray for them, but we maintain a safe distance.

 

In cases where reconciliation is desired, there is also the issue of trust. You need to feel assured that be will not be hurt again. Until this is the case, you should not feel bad about proceeding cautiously, testing the other person until they prove they can be trusted. Trust and accountability go hand in hand. ;)

 

I hope some of this helps :grouphug:

[Sweetpeach]

You didn't ask for a Christian answer, but this is the only perspective from which I can understand this issue...

 

Forgiveness is between you and God. It is giving up your anger and bitterness to God so these feelings can no longer hurt you. Reconciliation is between you and the other person. Whenever possible, reconciliation should be sought. However, we may in some circumstances (abusive relationships for example) decide that reconciliation is not in our best interests. We still love the person and we pray for them, but we maintain a safe distance.

 

In cases where reconciliation is desired, there is also the issue of trust. You need to feel assured that be will not be hurt again. Until this is the case, you should not feel bad about proceeding cautiously, testing the other person until they prove they can be trusted. Trust and accountability go hand in hand. ;)

 

I hope some of this helps :grouphug:

 

Thank you -- this is the information-wisdom that I couldn't get to on my own. You see, both of these women are lovely and I fully understand that we all have our package of hurt/brokeness which hinders present relationships. I long to be merciful and graceful despite my own hurt from the situation.

 

You've spoken to my core issue: trust. I do not feel at all assured that this relational style (which I find abrasive and hurtful) will not rise to the surface and bite me again. Their reaction to my hurt was not well received and so I hesitate to lean into them.

 

You can appreciate how tricky it can be within a church family that puts emphasis on hashing out relational problems . . . how do you gently tell someone that their response to a hurt only added fuel to the fire? Sometimes I feel like these moments can't be taught -- they have to be caught. I think it's a Holy Spirit revelation moment . . .

 

Thank you.

Tricia

[Sweetpeach]

I guess the best analogy I can think of is when one of your dc does something wrong, but you realize it's because he's not ready for that level of responsibility. So you make a note to yourself to not allow him to do it again until he shows he's responsible enough.

 

I think we have to do that with adults sometimes.

 

Yes, I agree with you here -- expectation kills relationship. I guess I feel surprised that neither of these women (who I regard as spiritually mature) had the ability to acknowledge or validate that their actions/words were very inappropriate. Neither of them can understand why I need distance or why I have a hard time placing my trust with them.

TY,

Tricia

[Sweetpeach]

I do think it's to everyone's benefit to be honest (with grace and tact) about why you're not able to carry on as before. Injuries to the heart or spirit take time to heal, and, sad as it is, sometimes a friendship just needs to be laid to rest.

 

 

This is the tricky part . . . I've tried twice to gently and gracefully explain why I've needed to draw back . . . with very little success. I hesitate to jump back into that conversation again . . . it's seems so futile and pointless.

 

I don't want to put on a fake smile and pretend it's all A-OK again -- I also don't want to continue dragging this around.

 

I think I understand reconciliation a bit better and that gives me something to mull over.

 

Thank you, PD

 

Tricia

[covenant.christian]

I would think if they were your friends, they would understand you need a little space and time.

 

Also, I think sometimes when Peter asked Jesus about forgiveness, and Jesus said, "Not seven times, but seventy times seven..." that it is possible this includes forgiving the same person, for the same thing. I struggle with going over and over in my head what I would really say, if I could say it all-past hurts, or conversations where I wished I had spoken out more, and they all end in disaster (in my head! LOL). Each time I think of that situation, or that person, I realize I have to forgive-again. For the same thing-again.

 

Does that make sense?

[Laurie4b]

I think that forgiveness and reconciliation are two different issues. Forgiveness means giving up the claim that they owe you something or wanting revenge for the offense. Since, from a Christian point of view, we're all in debt to God, and when you have a creditor, anything owed to you belongs to the creditor, we can pass it on to Jesus and be done with it ourselves.

 

Reconciliation is a different matter. Trust is something earned, not granted. An extreme example would be if you were sexually abused by someone as a child, you could forgive that person. You would never be reconciled to the extent that you would allow your child to be alone with them. Another example is infidelity in marriage: if a husband has an affair, the wife may forgive, but only time and consistent repentant patterns will rebuild trust.

 

You are vague about your own situation, so it's hard to tell. The feeling that you don't want to re-enter the relationship could be a signal that you haven't really forgiven--you're cutting them off, which can be a form of punishment. Fine. You hurt me. I "forgive" you, but I don't want to be around you anymore. Or, it could be that an aspect of the relationship was revealed that was patently unhealthy and that the other person is not open to changing, in which case keeping one's distance might be the wise thing.

 

A couple of things I would suggest in either case: pray for blessings for the women who hurt you, and figure out ways to "do good" to them. They've acted as your enemies in that particular situation, and Jesus gave explicit instructions on how to treat one's enemies. Pray for them...do good to them. Pray and ask God for creative ways to bless them: maybe making a meal, taking them a bouquet of flowers, offering to watch their children. He will know. You can just say, "I wanted to bless you." If you have trouble with this, it's likely that the issue is lack of forgiveness. If you do it, you've done what God says to do. It often melts hearts both ways. (Not always.)

[Sweetpeach]

I would think if they were your friends, they would understand you need a little space and time.

 

Also, I think sometimes when Peter asked Jesus about forgiveness, and Jesus said, "Not seven times, but seventy times seven..." that it is possible this includes forgiving the same person, for the same thing. I struggle with going over and over in my head what I would really say, if I could say it all-past hurts, or conversations where I wished I had spoken out more, and they all end in disaster (in my head! LOL). Each time I think of that situation, or that person, I realize I have to forgive-again. For the same thing-again.

 

Does that make sense?

 

I don't think I'm struggling with the forgiveness part -- I'm trying to figure out how to walk wisely in relationship, knowing that neither seem able to receive or acknowledge the abrasiveness of there words.

 

Wouldn't a wise person navigate those friendships differently than other friendships? This is my struggle - I don't want to hold these women at a distance but based on experience, it wouldn't be wise to do anything but hold them at a distance.

 

I understand where you are coming from -- the mental re-hash is a clear sign that things aren't well.

[OnTheBrink]

I think in this situation, you need to have an attitude of forgiveness but because they're not repentant, they can't really be forgiven. Meaning, they're not willing to concede that they've hurt you; they're not repentant of their actions, so they can not receive true forgiveness and there can't really be any reconciliation. However, you can have the attitude of forgiveness, meaning, that you release your anger and hurt and you don't rehash the issues with them (even to yourself). When/if they have the chance to hurt you again, you again go to them, tell them of their offense and if they continue to behave as if they did nothing wrong, you have to again go back and treat them as if forgiven. And, don't confuse an "I'm sorry" with true repentance. People are sorry all the time, but don't change their behaviors, so don't mistake an apology for repentance if their hurtful behaviors continue as before.

 

This is something I've really struggled with concerning my EX. My pastor told me that there really can't be forgiveness in my situation with him until he repents. I can have an attitude of forgiveness and not walk around bitter and angry and out to get him for his hurtful behavior, but the issues really can't be off the table until he repents of them. So, forgiveness can only go so far with him and that part of it lies with me and how I behave, how I think about him, etc. My pastor pointed out that Jesus, while He died for my sins, didn't save me from them until I repented.

 

I hope this makes sense and I hope you can find peace with this situation. :grouphug:

[beansprouts]

Wouldn't a wise person navigate those friendships differently than other friendships? This is my struggle - I don't want to hold these women at a distance but based on experience, it wouldn't be wise to do anything but hold them at a distance.

 

 

I have one of these friendships, Sweet. In fact I would call her my best friend. She is an incredible woman, really. She is extremely talented and accomplished and has such a heart. She is the person I know I can always call on, and I do love her dearly.

 

But man, does she have a temper. She has given me an earfull more than once and we have found ourselves in a few spats. At times she drives me nuts with complaining, or she'll make biting comments about choices I have made. More than once I have decided to take my toys and go home and "Never pway wif her ever again!"

 

We have been friends for over 6 years.

 

I have learned to take her in small doses. I have learned to watch for signs that she is in a "mood" and steer clear. I have learned which subjects to avoid in discussion. I have learned that often she just feels crummy and needs a hug and reassuring words or just someone to listen. I have learned not to take things too personally. I have learned about GRACE.

 

It has been a difficult friendship, but I do think I have grown through it. I am also trying to expand my circle to include some more encouraging people. Sometimes I can use a kind word also.

[Sweetpeach]

I think that forgiveness and reconciliation are two different issues. Forgiveness means giving up the claim that they owe you something or wanting revenge for the offense. Since, from a Christian point of view, we're all in debt to God, and when you have a creditor, anything owed to you belongs to the creditor, we can pass it on to Jesus and be done with it ourselves.

 

Reconciliation is a different matter. Trust is something earned, not granted. An extreme example would be if you were sexually abused by someone as a child, you could forgive that person. You would never be reconciled to the extent that you would allow your child to be alone with them. Another example is infidelity in marriage: if a husband has an affair, the wife may forgive, but only time and consistent repentant patterns will rebuild trust.

 

You are vague about your own situation, so it's hard to tell. The feeling that you don't want to re-enter the relationship could be a signal that you haven't really forgiven--you're cutting them off, which can be a form of punishment. Fine. You hurt me. I "forgive" you, but I don't want to be around you anymore. Or, it could be that an aspect of the relationship was revealed that was patently unhealthy and that the other person is not open to changing, in which case keeping one's distance might be the wise thing.

 

A couple of things I would suggest in either case: pray for blessings for the women who hurt you, and figure out ways to "do good" to them. They've acted as your enemies in that particular situation, and Jesus gave explicit instructions on how to treat one's enemies. Pray for them...do good to them. Pray and ask God for creative ways to bless them: maybe making a meal, taking them a bouquet of flowers, offering to watch their children. He will know. You can just say, "I wanted to bless you." If you have trouble with this, it's likely that the issue is lack of forgiveness. If you do it, you've done what God says to do. It often melts hearts both ways. (Not always.)

 

I need more time than I have right now to respond to this . . . I absolutely do speak blessing on both of these women. I don't feel at all vindictive or vengeful. I just can't rest my heart with them, which is awkward.

 

Part of me thinks I should just get. over. it already, but the other part of me wants to honour my feelings on this.

 

In the past, I've done exactly what you wrote about -- the whole "fine, I forgive you but don't ever expect me to talk to you again." I'm trying to figure out how to not do what you spoke about, but in the same breath, walking wisely in the friendship.

 

Thank you for your wise words.

 

I'll check back here later today!

 

Tricia

[Sweetpeach]

The situation is "vague" because people here attend my church (nothing about them ;) but I'm very careful about slime-ing or gossip -- I'm truly just trying to figure out how to walk gracefully and wisely with people who've hurt me but aren't able to acknowledge their unkindness.

[WTMindy]

What would you need from them in order to continue with the friendship? Is there anything that they could do to make it right? I can't tell from what you have said if the women aren't repentent or if the women just aren't responding the way you wish they would. But, either way, it sounds like you are working on your end and want to approach it the right way. I think sometimes though, the best friendships come when we put ourselves back out there even after being hurt (depending on the nature of the hurt, of course). It doesn't sound like these women are evil, perhaps just insensitive? I'm sorry that you are going through this!!

[Elaine]

Hivers, please tell me your thoughts on forgiveness and reconcilation.

 

Over the past year, I've found myself in tricky friendship situations . . . and so, there's been two different moments of feeling very cut or hurt by a friends words or actions . . . I feel that I've forgiven both of these folks. I understand forgiveness.

 

What I'm grappling with is the reconcilation part . . . I don't feel reconciled with either of these women, which means I don't feel like I want to lean into them or press into their friendship offerings.

 

The tricky part is I genuinely like both of these women.

 

At some point, I'll need to revisit these relationships and try to explain that I don't feel reconciled -- I don't feel like I have any words to describe that "Yes, I forgive you" but "No, I don't feel like our relationship can progress based on how you handled my moment of feeling cut (defensive, angry, how-dare-you-point-out-my-weaknesses sort of attitude?)

 

Any wise thoughts about forgiveness and reconcilation?

 

Thank you, Tricia

 

Maybe you are grieving for the relationship and the way things were before. I have a relationship like this in my life. This person hurt me deeply and I have forgiven her but the relationship is forever altered. I had to come to terms with the fact that I have forgiven her and I am reconciled to her as much as I can be.

 

I am not waiting around for her to do something hurtful again so that I can say, "I knew it! I knew you would hurt me again!" But I am a little bit guarded in what I say and do around her. I think that you have reconciled the relationship, just not to the level that it was before. But that doesn't mean that you haven't reconciled. KWIM?

 

I'm sorry, I know that it can be so hard.

[Dayle in Guatemala]

Hivers, please tell me your thoughts on forgiveness and reconcilation.

 

Over the past year, I've found myself in tricky friendship situations . . . and so, there's been two different moments of feeling very cut or hurt by a friends words or actions . . . I feel that I've forgiven both of these folks. I understand forgiveness.

 

What I'm grappling with is the reconcilation part . . . I don't feel reconciled with either of these women, which means I don't feel like I want to lean into them or press into their friendship offerings.

 

The tricky part is I genuinely like both of these women.

 

At some point, I'll need to revisit these relationships and try to explain that I don't feel reconciled -- I don't feel like I have any words to describe that "Yes, I forgive you" but "No, I don't feel like our relationship can progress based on how you handled my moment of feeling cut (defensive, angry, how-dare-you-point-out-my-weaknesses sort of attitude?)

 

Any wise thoughts about forgiveness and reconcilation?

 

Thank you, Tricia

 

Forgiveness is a process and, sometimes, at the end of that process there can be reconciliation. Sometimes, there really can't be. There are relationships that are "unsafe" for us to be completely ourselves in. There are times that we need to realize that we can be friends with certain people up to a certain level and maybe they aren't the kind of people with whom we trust our heart and emotions, problems and trials.

 

I have many different kinds of friends. I have friends I can really talk to and be totally myself with no matter what is happening in my life. They will pray with me, cry with me, and rejoice with me. Then there are friends who I can be around and have a genuinely good time with, but, there are parts of myself that I've realized I can't share with them. Not because they are bad people, but, rather we just don't have that kind of relationship. I love them, they are wonderful and fun, but, there won't be that level of intimacy with them that I have with others.

 

It's healthy to know who you can totally be yourself with and with whom you can't. If these women have said things that hurt you in the past, maybe they are the kind of people you can spend time with, but, not absolutely open your heart to. It's okay to do that! It's freeing.

 

Hope this helps.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think that we can have relationships that are at varying degrees of intimacy. If someone betrays your trust, (for example someone gossips about something you confided to them) you can forgive them and be kind and friendly to them, but it wouldn't be wise to share with them the intimate details of your life. And it isn't fair of them to tell you that you have to do so! It is ok to protect your heart from hurt.

[Sweetpeach]

What would you need from them in order to continue with the friendship? Is there anything that they could do to make it right? I can't tell from what you have said if the women aren't repentent or if the women just aren't responding the way you wish they would. But, either way, it sounds like you are working on your end and want to approach it the right way. I think sometimes though, the best friendships come when we put ourselves back out there even after being hurt (depending on the nature of the hurt, of course). It doesn't sound like these women are evil, perhaps just insensitive? I'm sorry that you are going through this!!

 

Hi there, WTMindy.

 

In order to continue the friendship like it used to be, I would need them to engage with me for a few minutes about why their words hurt and really listen, instead of deflecting, being defensive, saying they don't remember the incident (???), or telling me this is my issue and let's move on. I would love for them to be able to say "I'm sorry that my words caused hurt" instead of the old stand-by, "I'm sorry *but* I'm right about this." The but in my mind negates the apology. It feels like the need to be right has over-ruled the desire for the friendship to carry on in a positive way. I want to be heard. Is that wrong? Should it be enough that God and I know what happened and just carry on?

 

To be clear, these are not in any way evil, horrible women. They are lovely women. I wish they were horrible so I could drop them both like hot potatoes and never need to look back (lol). I see God's Glory and Goodness in both of them. My heart doesn't feel safe with them.

 

I have stewed over this now since March, trying to figure out the best way to carry on. For now, I just kinda fake it . . . but we both know that something is awkward. hmmmm.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Tricia

[Sweetpeach]

If these women have said things that hurt you in the past, maybe they are the kind of people you can spend time with, but, not absolutely open your heart to. It's okay to do that! It's freeing.

 

Hope this helps.

 

This is ***exactly*** what I'm working towards.

 

Is this a natural talent you possess?

 

It's a bit tricky, because we were pretty tight for quite some time and are together in situations where we are treading deeper in a group setting (sorry - can't elaborate more than this.)

[Dayle in Guatemala]

This is ***exactly*** what I'm working towards.

 

Is this a natural talent you possess?

 

It's a bit tricky, because we were pretty tight for quite some time and are together in situations where we are treading deeper in a group setting (sorry - can't elaborate more than this.)

 

 

You know, it takes time. It's not a natural ability of mine. I've had to pray a lot (I'm not sure what you feel about prayer, but, it helped me). There's been a lot of times that I've had to protect my heart and just realize that, for a while, I can't be around those people on a regular basis. I make sure that the majority of my time is spent with the people I can be myself around, people who are "safe" for me. I try to make sure I'm someone who is "safe" for others to be real with. It's a process.

[Ellie]

then you haven't truly forgiven them.

 

I can understand wanting to be more cautious in the future so you don't get burned again. That's normal. But forgiveness, in my mind at least, means you really do let it go and you don't dwell on it or bring it up again.

 

I understand what you're saying, and I've heard others say it, too, but I'm not sure I agree with it. I don't think Scripture supports it, either. although I could be wrong and I'm willing to consider that fact :-)

 

I think that caution doesn't mean there isn't forgiveness; I think it means there is wisdom. Perhaps this wisdom is what Dayle talks about: knowing that there are some things that cannot be shared, avoiding certain situations, etc.

 

I watched a friend allow herself to be hurt repeatedly by people in her own church because she was "forgiving" them by putting past hurts (which might only have been the day before) behind her. This was an extreme case (this particular congregation was labeled "dysfunctional" by a counsel of other churches of the same denomination), but it illustrates my point that forgiveness does not mean forgetting everything and not allowing oneself to be hurt again and again.

[Colleen in NS]

The situation is "vague" because people here attend my church (nothing about them ;) but I'm very careful about slime-ing or gossip -- I'm truly just trying to figure out how to walk gracefully and wisely with people who've hurt me but aren't able to acknowledge their unkindness.

 

Tricia, don't worry, your posts do not come across as gossiping. ;)

 

I really admire the way you are working this out and how you've expressed yourself. And I think it's fine to protect your heart, and find safety for your heart.

[Sweetpeach]

SolaMichella, thanks for your post. Yes, I understand where you are coming from and I appreciate your perspective.

 

I've watched for your posts and I must say that you have kept a very soft heart despite injustice and I'm inspired to keep walking with grace when sometimes I want to throw a temper tantrum. My nature is to clam up, so the fact that I'm actually validating my feelings and not squashing them is a big deal for me.

 

 

Warmly, Tricia

[Sweetpeach]

Tricia, don't worry, your posts do not come across as gossiping. ;)

 

Thanks Colleen - some people do this relational thing so easily. For me, it's unquestionably my growing edge.

 

xoxo

[Sweetpeach]

I understand what you're saying, and I've heard others say it, too, but I'm not sure I agree with it. I don't think Scripture supports it, either. although I could be wrong and I'm willing to consider that fact :-)

 

I think that caution doesn't mean there isn't forgiveness; I think it means there is wisdom. Perhaps this wisdom is what Dayle talks about: knowing that there are some things that cannot be shared, avoiding certain situations, etc.

 

 

 

I agree with you, Ellie -- forgiveness doesn't mean folly. It was the lovely Beansprout who pieced it together for me. Forgiveness is between me and God. Reconciliation between me and my friend.

 

Warmly, T

[Sahamamama]

Forgiveness is always possible, but I'm not convinced that reconciliation - picking up the relationship and continuing on - is or even should be. There are some people who are simply not willing or able to change their behavior to the point that a friendship is really possible.... Injuries to the heart or spirit take time to heal, and, sad as it is, sometimes a friendship just needs to be laid to rest.

 

I couldn't have said it better. When I read your post, it took me back to last October, to standing on the front step while my sister, once again, went completely off on me, in a way beyond anything I had ever known even her to do before. My husband had predicted the impending storm two weeks before ("Honey, please be careful, she's about to blow"), and I honestly knew it was coming, but even so... it was really the worst it had ever been.

 

I don't really know what changed that afternoon, except perhaps my hope that my sister would someday value our relationship at least of fraction of the amount that I valued it. I had to face up to what it really was, not what I had for years tried to make it -- and ask myself some hard questions:

 

1. If a person does not invest in and repeatedly attacks a relationship, how much does that person cherish it? What is the place of reciprocity and mutual commitment in a healthy relationship?

 

2. If a person has established a pattern of verbally "going off" on close family members (not just me), but clearly expects the "victims" to make the effort to rebuild the damage -- and they usually do this -- what does that teach and require of the person, and how does this enable that person to continue the pattern?

 

3. Do I have energy at this point in my life for this type of drama? In my case, the answer was no, I seriously didn't and still don't have anything to invest in this relationship that will never go anywhere positive.

 

I know that some will think, "But she's your SISTER! You have to FORGIVE her!" Yeah, no kidding. Duh. She's forgiven, 777 times over, and I would lay down my life for her this moment. I have no unforgiveness issues with this reckless destroyer of peace. What I have is a firm grip on reality.

 

My sister simply can NOT live without a crisis, without chaos. So, if life is going along smoothly, for her or anyone else, it's time to stir things up a bit.

 

I agree with Drew that, in matters of the heart, you can't equate forgiveness with denial -- some things hurt us, deeply, and some people hurt us, deeply. It's the path of forgiveness to really and truly say, "I love this person, this sister of mine, and I mourn for the relationship I don't have with her, for the pain this distance has caused my parents, for the awkwardness of it all in the family, for the little daily things I would love to share with her, but..." And then, perhaps, it's the path of wisdom to say, "Above all else, guard your heart, for from it flow the springs of life (Proverbs 4:23). I love this person, this sister of mine, and I will turn away from unhealthy patterns of rebuilding what she destroys. I will allow her to invest in and contribute to a healthy relationship that recognizes both persons' dignity, that cries out for God's healing and grace. I will not put a sign on my heart that says, 'Here's your doormat, wipe your feet.' I am available for relationship, but not on any terms."

 

I think that we can love someone unconditionally, that is, the love we have for another person is our choice and resolution. But we cannot always relate to someone unconditionally, because the other person is free to make choices that detrimentally impact the health and viability of the relationship. I probably will never again be "close" with my sister, for many reasons, but mainly because I've tried and tried and tried for 20 years without succeeding, so what are the odds I ever will? I have let it go now. I had to grieve that, quite terribly, actually, but I can now be open to whatever God has in store for me. I do hope this helps you in some way.

[Ellie]

I agree with you, Ellie -- forgiveness doesn't mean folly. It was the lovely Beansprout who pieced it together for me. Forgiveness is between me and God. Reconciliation between me and my friend.

 

Warmly, T

 

YES!! That's it exactly!:thumbup:

[Sweetpeach]

Sahamamama, your story certainly resonates with me. Last summer, I experienced a very similiar episode with my sil. We didn't have the explosive, temper issues . . . it was much more subtle, but I had to drop my pie-in-the-sky ideas of a romantic, tight, close-knit relationship between our families and recognize that I valued our relationship much more than she did. It broke something in me and I still haven't all the way recovered. I refused to see the truth of our friendship because I so badly wanted to walk closely with her and have our children be close.

 

I think you've shown exceptional relational maturity and wisdom as you love your sister. Love does not equal door-mat.

 

Thank you for taking the time to post.

 

xoxo

Tricia

[Sahamamama]

Your post was somewhat cathartic for me! :001_smile: Well, I said that I had "let go" of it all, but you should have seen the puddle of tears on the desk last night. I do love that sister of mine, ya know! Sigh.

 

We can have our dreams for how relationships are going to be, and we can do our part to invest in them, but, in the final analysis, the trouble with relationships is that other people are in them. ;) And that's that!

 

:grouphug: Be with people who LOVE you, gal. It's okay to do that.

[Kay in Cal]

I agree with much of what has been written here about forgiveness and reconcilliation. However, one thing really stood out to me about your original question that no-one mentioned.

 

Of course you are being vague, so it's hard to tell, but you wrote:

Over the past year, I've found myself in tricky friendship situations . . . and so, there's been two different moments of feeling very cut or hurt by a friends words or actions . . . I feel that I've forgiven both of these folks. I understand forgiveness.

 

"No, I don't feel like our relationship can progress based on how you handled my moment of feeling cut (defensive, angry, how-dare-you-point-out-my-weaknesses sort of attitude?)

 

 

In the whole year there have been *two* times of your feeling hurt, and you can't be reconciled with them? Now, if these were two horrible abusive awful times (intentionally causing mental anguish), I might get that. No one needs to be friends with abusers. But you have repeatedly said how "nice" they both are. I simply think that having a close friend say something irritating twice a year is pretty darn low... Heck, my dh is my best most intimate friend and he's got to hurt my feelings over twice a year. Friends don't always agree, and shouldn't have to always agree if they are to continue in relationship. If I witheld forgiveness every time (or every other time) someone inadvertently hurt my feelings, I'd have very very few friends.

 

I'm all for protecting yourself from abuse, but is it possible that witholding forgiveness and reconciliation, even avoiding the relationship, is not about them and thier two slights, but about you and your own struggles and fears surrounding intimacy?

 

YMMV. It's hard to know without details, but that was my first instinct.

[Sweetpeach]

I agree with much of what has been written here about forgiveness and reconcilliation. However, one thing really stood out to me about your original question that no-one mentioned.

 

Of course you are being vague, so it's hard to tell, but you wrote:

 

 

In the whole year there have been *two* times of your feeling hurt, and you can't be reconciled with them? Now, if these were two horrible abusive awful times (intentionally causing mental anguish), I might get that. No one needs to be friends with abusers. But you have repeatedly said how "nice" they both are. I simply think that having a close friend say something irritating twice a year is pretty darn low... Heck, my dh is my best most intimate friend and he's got to hurt my feelings over twice a year. Friends don't always agree, and shouldn't have to always agree if they are to continue in relationship. If I witheld forgiveness every time (or every other time) someone inadvertently hurt my feelings, I'd have very very few friends.

 

I'm all for protecting yourself from abuse, but is it possible that witholding forgiveness and reconciliation, even avoiding the relationship, is not about them and thier two slights, but about you and your own struggles and fears surrounding intimacy?

 

YMMV. It's hard to know without details, but that was my first instinct.

 

Hi Kay in Cal,

 

You're right -- I'm being very vague because I'm not into slime-ing people and as I've mentionned before, one of these ladies is in my current church community and there are regular posters here that attend my church therefore, I do not wish to partake in triangulization (a fancy church word for gossip).

 

Sooooooo, to answer your question . . . these are not horrible women. I would say that both of these women tend to land on the "I'll stick my head up my butt and try to forget that I've hurt Tricia . . . and she'll get over it like she always does." And I always do, but I'm not sure I get over it in a healthy way. I end wearing other's peoples cr*p in an attempt to make sense of a situation. What I am trying to figure out is how to extend a spirit of reconciliation without being stupid.

 

People p*ss me off all the time, and within seconds it falls like water off a ducks back. I'm a classic "see the best in everyone" type-of-gal . . . so this is uncharted waters for me . . . holding someone accountable for their blatant insensivity by not fully engaging in the friendship. Your closing comment is definitely something I've struggled with over the years. Perhaps I'm being lead into deeper relational waters with people in my community/family . . . and it is uncomfortable.

 

Does that make sense?

 

Since I posted a few days ago, I've continually prayed for God's peace and healing, and remember that His justice is perfect and His love, unconditional.

 

Warmly, Tricia

[KidsHappen]

But I can tell you that sometimes you can forgive but you can never forget. Not even if you try. Some pains are so deep that while you forgive the person and move on in your own life, you can not continue to have the same relationship with them that you had before. You understanding of who they are has fundementally changed. They are a different person in your eyes. And your relationship from that point forward will be colored by this. Basically you have to either start all over as if you are just beginning the relationship with them given the new info and base your relationship on that info OR you need to decide that given the new info you feel that they really can't be part of your life any longer. In any case, you are in a hard place to be and I wish you peace as you try to work through it. :grouphug:

[Tracey in TX]

I'm in awe of the kindness and capacity to love that so many share here on the board. I'm honored to be a part of this virtual hive.

 

Forgiveness and reconciliation are two such difficult factors in any relationship. For me forgiveness is relatively easy, but opening my heart to trust again doesn't always feel right. One can love a person and enjoy so many of their qualities without it being a safe and healthy friendship. Once bitten, twice shy attitude; when you've been bitten a dozen or so times, might be time to reassess what intrinsic value is on the given friendship.

 

I ended a 15 year friendship and asked our maid-of-honor to step down because she had become a caustic friend, voicing her views on all I held dear (future spouse, marriage/children, higher education). She hadn't changed, I did. But her repeated and rude mockeries of all these issues was more than acceptable. It's still one of the most heartbreaking and necessary decisions I've ever made. We've only talked three times in the last 18 years. My point is I've forgiven her because she's being herself. We just really can't be friends as our only common ground is childhood. Love and pray for her and hope she lives a happy, fulfilling life.

 

My heart goes out to both Sweetpeach and Sahamamama for sharing your stories. I'll pray that you find serenity and can discern what choices need to be made, if any. :grouphug: