MamaSheep Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 We've been thinking about getting a puppy for a while now, but since we've never had a dog before I wanted to do a little research first. I've done some research on different breeds, read a book about general dog care, and a book about puppy training, and we think we're about ready to take the plunge. The breed that keeps rising to the top as one we think would be a good fit is the Toy Fox Terrier. It's a small, low-maintenance dog, generally healthy, and can get sufficient exercise around the house, though it enjoys a walk as well. It has the reputation of being playful, but able to settle down and snuggle up to watch tv or whatever. One problem, though, is that there aren't any TFT breeders listed in our state on the TFT club website's breeder's list. I did stumble upon one breeder in our state, but the limited info I found online makes me wonder how reputable they are. They seem to give the puppies numerical designations rather than names, for example, and in the pictures I've seen the puppies seem nervous and skittish. I could drive up there at some point and look around, but I just don't get a good feeling about it even from the web site, which makes me nervous. So yesterday I saw an ad in some local classifieds listing 2 7 week old female TFT puppies for sale by a family much closer to where we live. The photos are darling, but I notice that the puppies' tails are not docked (docking is standard for this breed), and when I called for more information the guy who is selling them didn't seem to know much about breeding dogs. He says they have both parents at their house and I could meet them and see how big they are, etc., and they have never had any real health problems, but they have never done any real health screenings or anything like that, and they have no pedigree papers, they're just family pet type dogs. He sounded nice, and it seems that the puppies have been raised in the home with the family and kids, which sounds promising for socialization, but the puppies have not been seen by a vet or had any immunizations yet (he said it was too early, but I thought puppies were usually vaccinated at 6 weeks, so now I'm confused). I set up an appointment to go see the puppies tomorrow thinking there's no harm in looking (by myself, with no pleading children...lol). Would I be crazy to buy one of these puppies (assuming they look healthy and seem to have good temperament and to be well socialized) from people who aren't "real" breeders and don't have much real information about their health history? Also, is there anything I should be concerned about with the undocked tails? I know it's breed standard to dock them, but I don't know if leaving the tail natural causes some kind of problem or not. We're not intending to show the dog, just looking for a nice family pet. Should I run the other way? Advice? Things to look for? Questions I should be asking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IdahoMtnMom Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Thats a tough one. We have a 9mo old Golden Retreiver. I was ANAL about finding the right breeder. She was raised in a home, around kids... BUT is papered, has champion lines, the breeder had great references, and I met two dogs from the same parents a couple of year older. I paid a pretty penny for her ($1300) but it was worth it.... If you want a tog to have a dog, I would say go with the dogs you are looking at tomorrow. IF you want that specific breed, I would find one's that are papered, reputable breeders, references, and so on. I am this way because I had an unpapered dog before our new puppy. It was a nightmare. She was not good with the kids AT ALL and I ended up having to take her back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmama Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Are you more interested in a family pup, or a pup who has also been carefully screened and checked? I ask this as someone who has done both ways -- the papered pup and the rescued-from-pound-with-no-background-info dog. I love our current pound-rescue Pointer mix and miss greatly our Welsh Corgi who was such a great guy, even though I suspect his breeder may not have been top notch. Prior to that, we had Dalmations, who were all papered (and pampered!). My only concern with the situation you present would be temperament. I know nothing about TFTs, but with any dog, a person typically looks to a breeder for insight on such matters. Would you have this insight from this potential situation? Best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSheep Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 Thanks for responding! I'm interested in that specific breed, but only because I hear such good things about them and they have a lot of traits I think would work well with our family. I have no intention of ever showing or breeding the dog, so I'm not really hung up on having the right paperwork. If I wanted a show quality, registered, pedigreed dog of this breed from a "real" breeder it looks like I'd have to go out of state to get one, and would involve either buying it without meeting it first (which might not be bad if we found a really helpful breeder) and having it shipped, or else taking a long road trip to get there. Either way, the dog will cost more PLUS there will be travel expenses either for us or for the dog. I could, of course, just pick a different breed that's more readily available around here, but the TFTs seem to strike a chord for me for some reason. So it seems like this might be the most convenient way to get a TFT (assuming the dogs in the ad actually are what they are claimed to be--without the pedigree they could be part chihuahua for all I know). But I don't want to trade convenience for a lousy dog I have to live with for the next 15 years or so. As far as whether there would be much guidance on temperament, he says the parents have been wonderful dogs to have, and they and the puppies all get along well with the kids and so forth. I don't think he sounded like he'd be able to give much educated advice about which puppies might be dominant or submissive or whatever. I think I'd be flying pretty blind and leaning largely on my own judgment, though he did seem to be pretty open and willing to answer questions, so if I knew what to ask specifically I could probably get accurate information, at least to the best of his inexperienced ability. I dunno... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieZ Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Honestly, the non-tail-docked folks sound like a much better source IME. They sound like they don't know what they are doing, and didn't plan much, etc. So what. You just need a healthy, nicely socialized pup. Tail docking is nasty business, anyway. Unless you plan to show/breed, the standard isn't relevant to you. But, the vast majority of "breeder" bred dogs are terrible. Terrible. I agree that the other breeder sounds sketchy. If it sounds sketchy, it is probably terrible. Mutts are usually healthier. Oopsie "backyard" breeders who just breed one litter every year or less are generally at least well socialized and less likely to be from a really terrible, abusive situation. Also less likely to come home chock full of over/in-breeding genetic problems and/or parasites and/or parvo and other diseases. Large scale breeding operations are horrible places and put out very sickly pups. IDEAL are those amazing 1 in 1000 breeders who adore their dogs, do all the health checks, show them, select for breed standard and behavior, etc. Incredibly rare, though, and some/many have bizarrely difficult standards to meet for buying a puppy as well as pretty obnoxious contracts. If I were shopping for a pure bred dog, I'd drive to get the one I wanted from the best breeder I could find. In a rare/small breed, this could easily mean a 6-12 mos wait list and a 1000 mile drive. I'd let the breeder know that I wanted the dog for a pet, and wanted to choose based on personality and health, not breed standards/showing. Dogs are such a big investment of love, that I wouldn't hesitate to do what I needed to do to get the one I wanted. That said, I never buy animals. We rescue mutts. :) They come to us, lol. (We have 4 dogs, 4 cats . . . dh is a vet, lol.) But, if I were driven to get a particular breed, I'd go ahead and drive a day or so to pick up the one I wanted. FWIW, it sounds to me like you are on the right track. I'd go back to the breed association breeder referral service and widen your geographic search. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeidiKC Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 But, the vast majority of "breeder" bred dogs are terrible. Terrible. ???? Good breeders are very careful about selecting healthy breeding stock that conform to the breed standard. I wouldn't buy one from the family backyard breeders, mainly because I think it is irresponsible that they are breeding dogs when they don't know much about it. I wouldn't want to support that. They generally won't provide support for you after you buy the pup, and aren't interesting in knowing later on if the dog has developed health problems. A good breeder will want to know this, in case he/she wants to avoid breeding the same dogs that might produce another pup with this problem. Many breeders will take your dog back or offer to find it a home if you ever have to give it up. I have never heard of a backyard breeder doing such a thing. This is important not just for you, but for keeping many other dogs out of shelters. I'm sure these people are very nice, but they are probably breeding for money and don't have the dogs' best interests at heart. I would suggest spending more time contacting your local or national club and asking them for names of breeders, or maybe even asking if they know this other breeder that is in your state. And if you have to, make a fun weekend trip of it to go get a healthy dog from a reputable breeder who has very careful selected the parents to ensure a healthy, sound dog with good temperament, and who will be there for your questions, etc. throughout the dog's life. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSheep Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 Yeah, my only concern about the tail business is if there's some kind of health concern that was the reason the tails are usually docked in the first place. If it's just an aethetic thing, I really don't care if they're not docked. And actually, since these people don't seem to really know what they're doing I kind of think it's better that they didn't try. One of my sister's dogs had to have surgery on his tail after she got him because it was docked improperly and was causing him pain. I have no real understanding of tail docking. I don't know why they do it in the first place, other than I've read that they used to do it in working and hunting dogs out of concern that the tail would be injured as the dog pushed through underbrush and so forth in the course of working. But I know I've heard lambs get their tails docked because if they're long they get feces stuck to them and can become infected or attract flies, which lay their eggs in the nasty tails and then the maggots burrow in and stuff. (Ick!) But I'm having a hard time imagining a health issue like that with a dog that lives in a house almost all the time. I just wondered if "dog people" might know more about it than I do, since I'm a rank amature when it comes to doggies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSheep Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) So it sounds like the biggest concern with the puppies I'm going to be looking at tomorrow is temperament. What should I look for? What would be some red flags? Also, help me with a shopping list, in case I decide I want one of these. When I was reading the books it was with an eye to next summer and I figured I'd go back and look again before deciding. These little guys just sorta snuck up on me. :) Crate Food & food dishes Toys Brush (it's a very short-haired breed, so doesn't need a lot of grooming) Collar and lead Clean up spray with enzymes to get rid of the smell Poop baggies Nail cutters Puppy shampoo ...?... Edited October 7, 2011 by MamaSheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Geek Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Your list of stuff sounds about right. The dogs should be friendly and not standoffish. I would look for a clean area where they are living. I would also watch to see how the owners treat their dogs. If I get a good feeling from the owners and the dogs are friendly, I would go with it. I would also tell owners that you want to get a vet check before making the deal official. I have bought both of my dogs from breeders. My husky lived to be 15 and was a typical husky. The owners had shown dogs and the parents were champions. My husky didn't have the qualities needed for showing. My std poodle came from a homeschooling family who is trying to break into the business. He is 1 1/2 years old and so far, so good. Neither dog had been tested for anything. Maybe we have been lucky, but we have gone with our gut. ETA: If you haven't trained dogs before pick up a couple of puppy training books and maybe take an obedience class with the puppy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snickelfritz Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Are the family breeders giving away the puppies or charging breeder prices? ETA. I just went back and saw they were for sale. How expensive are they compared to other breeders? What vet care do they intend to get or have the puppies had? I guess I'm wondering what you are getting for your money from these "dabbling" breeders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Wow, no one has mentioned yet that the puppies are too young to be without their mother!!! Dogs should NOT be separated before 8 weeks old, particularly toy breeds. They are getting a lot of socialization from the mother, teaching them how to be a dog. It is illegal in my state to sell a dog before 8 weeks. Now, I'd go look, and if the parents are both healthy and most importantly, friendly, than I might put down a deposit. Then pick up the dog at 8 weeks or so. I would ask about worming...shots can start at 8 weeks, but wormings should have been done starting at 2 weeks. Not a deal breaker though. As for the tail, it is illegal in many countries to dock tails, so just tell people the dog is European :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennsmile Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 If this doesn't work craigslist has a pets section. 3 of our last 4 dogs were from there. One was $150, got run over less than a year later (following Dh on a bike ride). The next one was free, neutered and up to date on shots and is the most calm and docile dog though his hair is a mess. And our baby is a chi that we waited and watched for for months before finding what we wanted. $35 less than a year, exposed to kids and other dogs, spayed and up to date on shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernm Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I wouldn't hesitate to have a puppy shipped by air from a highly reputable breeder. I suggest finding a forum specific to the breed you are looking at and reading over everything. The posters will usually have good knowledge of what breeders are good and bad. The breeder where we got our boxer is excellent and she put 3 of her pups from our litter on a plan with no problems at all. We actually have a facebook group and everyone that have purchased from her visit, post pics, and ask questions. Purchasing from a knowledgeable breeder is key as I am sure you will have plenty of questions after the puppy is home! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSheep Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 I was thinking of asking if they could hold the puppy until Monday or so to give me a chance to get the house ready for a puppy and to let the puppy stay with it's mama a little longer. Assuming I like what I see, of course. We'll see how this goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingnlearning Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I would get the family dogs. People overthink so many things and these days, dogs are one of them. 7 weeks is a perfectly fine age to get a pup-in my lifetime our family has probably gotten dozens of pups at that age or younger and they all turned out just fine. In fact, the younger we got them the better they did but good luck getting anyone to admit that in public any more! LOL I've worked in vet clinics, bred a litter of dogs, had dogs, total dog lifestyle and IMO and IME there are times to fuss about finding just the right breeder and psychoanalyzing a dog and there are times that you really just get a nice pup and go home and enjoy it. This elitist attitude about dog breeding is just silly-the top of the line "breeders" are the ones that ruined the GSD, dalmation, lab, ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingersmom Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 You say the guy does not know much about breeding dogs. Why would you buy a dog from him??? Go to your local shelter and rescue a dog. I would never have a dog shipped to me. My mother did (did not take my advice) and there were serious issues with the puppy. The breeder who was so nice and friendly before refused to talk to her. I also know someone who had a problem with a cat shipped to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSheep Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 You know, one of the things I love about this forum is that when you ask a question you get responses from all different points of view, including some you might not even have thought to consider. Hooray for the hive mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingnlearning Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 :D very diplomatic of you! To address your vaccination question-6 weeks is too young, they are still on the mama dog's immunity at that stage. 8 weeks is the best time to start vax and make sure you do a series of at least three. Worming ideally would have been done by then but if not, no biggie. You can take the pup to the vet for the vax/wormer or you can do it yourself. The vet gives them pyrantel and it can be bought OTC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernm Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Another reason you shouldn't buy from a backyard breeder is the health testing. Highly qualified breeders do lots of genetic testing to ensure the highest quality of pet possible. A good breeder does so to improve the quality of the breed. If you purchase from a random person, be prepared to face higher cost for healthcare of that dog. Yes, a good breeder can't rule out health problems 100% but they can help the odds. You would also get a contract that would have clauses written into it that would somewhat protect you should a problem arise. Backyard breeders contribute to the high population of animals in shelters today. I urge to find a responsible, knowledgeable breeder. If not, then adopt from a shelter. http://www.petfinder.com is a good place to start for shelter dogs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) Just my $.02.... Cons to a backyard "breeder" - if you are really set on a breed for all the pure-bred reasons, you will have no way of knowing if your puppy will be this kind of dog until he/she is grown. It is very hard to tell if a dog is pure bred.... backyard breeders do not breed for temperment (at least most don't) and do not check for health histories, etc. Your guy sounds pretty clueless. If you were just buying a puppy that you thought was cute and nice and weren't worried about the breed - not as big of a deal.... Pros to backyard breeder - cost, location, and sometimes the puppies are highly socialized and well loved by the family. Sometimes they can be very healthy because there was no intentional breeding for certain traits. Let me say here, that there is a HUGE difference between professional breeders and puppy mills. Professional breeders are not puppy mills and should not be compared to them. Do not buy puppies from pet stores.... Cons to professional breeders - cost, location, sometimes puppies aren't as socialized IF they have many litters at a time - although all the breeders I've met just end up with about 15 puppies running around their house :) Some are not as professional as their websites make them seem - always check withe the national and local "clubs" of the breed for breeder recommendations. Pros to a professional breeders - they breed for the right traits and try to breed to standard. They will get 'pet" quality out of their litters - but these are usually pet quality only for technical reasons and they are still breed quality for temperment. They do sell the "pet" quality for less, although you have to spay or neuter the dog. They will be there to answer any questions all through the life of your dog. The are usually far better about health screenings. Re shelter dogs - an older shelter dog could be a real challenge for a family not used to dogs. Getting a shelter pet sounds all warm and fuzzy - and we like to do so as well - but this can be a very difficult situation. Young puppies, not so much - as you'll be starting from scratch. Here are some cons to shelter dogs over 3 months: Sometimes they have had zero training and you have to work with a dog who is older and break bad habits; older dogs are sometimes left because the previous owners could not deal with behavior problems (I have a good friend dealing with this right now). If a rescue looks appealing, go through a private rescue organization. They are very honest about any issues with the dogs, and will not place a difficult dog with a family that cannot handle it. Edited October 7, 2011 by SailorMom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingnlearning Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 You'd be amazed how many "professional" breeders do NOT do all the proper testing. I just was reading a breeding discussion on another board where a professional showing GSD breeder was only doing OFA on the hips of her dogs, nothing else. on a GSD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beccad777 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I have had many dogs. We had an Australian Shepherd growing up that my parents bought from a reputable breeder and she was a great dog. I still remember going and picking her out. We bought a beagle from a pet store when we were young and stupid. DO NOT EVER do this! She was SO stubborn and was never fully potty trained. So much frustration with this dog. On the plus side, she was great with the kids! We rescued an Aussie before we had kids. He was about a year or so old. He was a great dog. Loved him! But, he was not good with our kids. We had to watch him all the time and they were never allowed alone together. He never did anything, but they clearly made him nervous. We assume that he had a bad experience with kids before we got him. This is the reason that we will not rescue an adult dog until our kids are much older. Currently we have a boxer. We bought her for $50 off Craigslist from a situation that sounds much like the OP's. We went and picked her out of the litter when she was 6 weeks old. Looking back we probably should have waited until she was older, but live and learn! :D Her tail is also not docked. We don't find this to be much of a problem except once when she was about a year her tail got slammed in the back door. We think that broke it as she kept it down and there was a noticeable crimp in it for about 6 months. It completely healed on it's own though, and now you would never know it had been broken. She is a great dog. Very smart, friendly, great with the kids, and easily trained. All in all, the best dog we have owned. So......I say all that to say this. If the inexperienced guy checks out, get the family puppy. It will save you a lot of time and money, and you will likely get a great family dog. Just be careful and don't jump in out of emotion. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I don't think you need to be more careful about a back-yard dog than you do a "reputable" breeder. Unless you want to show or breed, papers are irrelavent - the kennel club will register any dog whose parents are registered - it is no proof of good health or meeting breed standards. Speaking of which, breed standards promoted by kennel clubs have ruined many dog breeds health and made them useless for the work they were originally intended for. In general, mutts are healthier - the main disadvantage is that they may grow up differently than you expect. But unless I was looking for a working dog, I would get a mutt - with a pure-bred breeder there are too many things to worry about. The dog in the back-yard I would consider if the parents were nice, healthy, friendly dogs and the puppies were healthy and happy. I would prefer an undocked tail myself, there is no good reason to have it done. I'd also consider the pound. There are real advantages to getting a dog that is no longer a puppy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I don't think you need to be more careful about a back-yard dog than you do a "reputable" breeder. Let me be up front about this: I would never, ever buy a dog from a breeder. I have no interest in showing or breeding. I just want pets. However, since we always adopt our pets through shelters and rescue organizations, the truth is that I would have no way of knowing whether the puppy I fell in love with and brought home was the product of this kind of backyard breeding. And, honestly, when I was searching PetFinder every day before bringing home my dog, I saw lots of puppies that had been rescued from backyard breeders and puppy mills, any of which I would have been happy to have as my own if things had worked out right. If you're looking for a family pet and don't care about pedigree, I can't imagine why it would be worth it (time, hassle, money) to buy from a professional breeder. I think my feeling about the family who is offering the puppies would depend on a couple of things: 1. Is this a business for them? Do they breed their dogs a lot? If so, I might consider very carefully before I bought from them. 2. How much are they charging for the puppies? If you care about breed and know how much it would cost to purchase a pure-bred puppy from a reputable breeder, how does this person's selling price compare? How much more are they charging than what it would cost you in fees to adopt from a shelter or rescue organization? If it were me, I would go meet the puppies and their parents. If I got a good feeling from the family and got satisfactory answers to the two questions I typed above, I wouldn't hesitate to bring home the dog. But, again, I'm the kind of person who wants to take in pets who need me. I couldn't care less about status or anything like that. So, my perspective is a bit different from that of some of the other folks who've posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I would get the family dogs. People overthink so many things and these days, dogs are one of them. I've seen way more people underthink this than overthink it. 7 weeks is a perfectly fine age to get a pup-in my lifetime our family has probably gotten dozens of pups at that age or younger and they all turned out just fine. In fact, the younger we got them the better they did but good luck getting anyone to admit that in public any more! LOL Got to disagree. Of course MOST dogs do fine, no matter what. But I've seen way way way too many problems in dogs adopted out too young, particularly in toy breeds. Everything from low blood sugar issues to aggression. Heck, I own one of them....but it couldn't be helped as it was a shelter scenario and it was adopt her then or not get her. I've worked in vet clinics, bred a litter of dogs, had dogs, total dog lifestyle and IMO and IME there are times to fuss about finding just the right breeder and psychoanalyzing a dog and there are times that you really just get a nice pup and go home and enjoy it. I'll agree to that, at least to a point. This elitist attitude about dog breeding is just silly-the top of the line "breeders" are the ones that ruined the GSD, dalmation, lab, ect. No, it was backyard breeders like the one being mentioned, that did most of the damage there. But most of the time, the ones from backyard breeders are fine. Just stay away from the petstores!!!!!!!!!!! I'd rather a pup from a clueless suburbanite than from a puppy mill any day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingnlearning Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I'm afraid I disagree on the backyard breeders causing the damage to breeds. Using the GSD as an example, the dogs with the low slung hips and roached backs started winning in the show rings and the AKC breeders started breeding for them. I see it in horses all the time, breeders will breed for what wins because that is what goes on the dog's resume. If the judges reward for low slung hips on a GSD then that is what the breeders will breed for and perpetuate a huge conformation fault. that said, I do see where if GSD's are the popular dog then there are clueless breeders who will run out and buy a pair and start cranking out puppies without researching the breed or having a care for conformation/health. But to honest, I think the absolute BEST odds of getting a quality reasonable purebred dog is from the private breeder that researches the breed, does health screens/certs, and stands by their dogs. That has nothing to do with showing or being listed on an AKC list or much of anything except a conversation with the dog's owners. My GP came from a scary scary looking rundown shack of a farm. But his papers, his health screens, and background were 100%. How can a pup end up with blood sugar issues from leaving the mama dog at 6/7 weeks? The pups should be mostly weaned and on puppy food by that age anyway? I have known bajillions of dogs and puppies and know their development stages and I really don't see how leaving the mama dog at ages six weeks and up can be entirely blamed for any future problems with the dog. It's my opinion and experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 No, it was backyard breeders like the one being mentioned, that did most of the damage there. But most of the time, the ones from backyard breeders are fine. Just stay away from the petstores!!!!!!!!!!! I'd rather a pup from a clueless suburbanite than from a puppy mill any day! Yeah, I think I have to disagree with this too. It's true that when a dog gets popular, people will jump in and try to take advantage of the boom and won't know what they are doing really. But there have been quite a few breeds ruined by show breeders, collies, Irish setters, trying to up the size of Great Danes and Newfoundland dogs, things like that. As soon as people begin breeding, especially line breeding, for these very specific conformational points, there is trouble - and usually they are totally arbitrary. Look at the Duck Toller which is popular at the moment - someone has arbitrarily decided they shouldn't have white patches. Real working tollers have them, they don't affect their ability to work, but they are wrong somehow so breeders try and reduce them. It's really the idea of these conformational points for non-working dogs that are the issue IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annlaura Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 If you are set on your breed, try checking petfinders. You might be surprised to discover there are some available. And you may find rescue groups closer than you thought. I was surprised to find a number of breed rescues willing to bring a dog to a prospective family. I think it is possible to find a good pup many places. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once Again Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Personally, I'd choose the local breeder. They are close, you get to meet the parents, and it sounds like the puppies were socialized well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty in Pink Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Go see the pups and their parents. If they are all happy and healthy then I'd take one of the pups. I would insist on taking it to a vet to be checked over first, but I'd get one. I can't see going through the hassle, the wait, to invest in a dog with papers when you just need a lovable family pet. The tail docking wouldn't be an issue for me. I wouldn't want it done anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snickelfritz Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) How can a pup end up with blood sugar issues from leaving the mama dog at 6/7 weeks? The pups should be mostly weaned and on puppy food by that age anyway? When we got a Maltese, our research said: Stress of changing homes can cause them to not eat and smaller dogs are less able to deal with a skipped meal. Waiting longer to move them puts that much more weight on them. We used a small-scale breeder and he stressed that if the dog went very long without eating, we needed to have him seen. Some sites I saw recommended much longer waits than 8 weeks. Edited October 7, 2011 by snickelfritz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSheep Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 Resistance was futile. We have a new puppy. Need I mention she's the cutest little puppy in the world? The two puppies who were left from the litter romped over to the door to meet us as we came in. One of the puppies immediately plastered herself against the floor and then went belly up. The other one came and sniffed at us curiously. Then they both frolicked off to wrestle for a minute before coming back to check us out some more. They both let us pick them up, roll them over, play with their heads and paws, and so forth without any complaint or resistance. I asked if one was more energetic or more of a snuggler, and the guy immediately picked up one and said she was a cuddle bug. It was the one who had been more confident at first meeting. We met the parents, and they were both very well behaved, friendly dogs. All of them seemed happy and healthy and seemed to get along very well with each other and their people. So we picked the confident, cuddly one and brought her home. She's had a little food and water and I took her outside. She squatted just briefly, but I'm not sure whether she peed or not. She's currently napping, but I'll probably try to whisk her outside again after she wakes up. The kids are enchanted. (Me too.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annlaura Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 :D Congrats! Now we need pics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the evolving homemaker Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) i tend to lean toward not using a 'backyard breeder'. i am in agreement with those that point out that it is really irresponsible considering the millions of dogs that are put down each year due to overcrowding and lack of homes. from the humane society website "Four million cats and dogs—about one every eight seconds—are put down in U.S. shelters each year. Often these animals are the offspring of cherished family pets." yes, many times these are un-adoptable dogs, but many times they are not too. many times loving dogs are put down for no reason other than no one wants them in time. this is why i don't support backyard breeders regardless of the cost! a high end breeder is not elitist, it is responsible. they are keeping true to the breed and trying to avoid health issues, someone who breeds for fun or extra cash isn't taking that into consideration. docking is sorta lame. lol...and for what it is worth, our two dogs came from the humane society, one is sketchy and nervous the other one is the most loveable creature on the planet. but health wise, they are both fantastic. two mutts that have been integral to our family for years. with that said, our next dog we want to be a guard dog, that is not one i would adopt nor would i not go through an extraordinarily highly recommended breeder. i estimate we will be spending upwards of $1500 or more. but this is my need to feel personally safe. long story. good luck. having a dog is the best thing in the world. you will learn truly what unconditional love is from whatever little pooch you decide on! Edited October 7, 2011 by the evolving homemaker misspelled word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the evolving homemaker Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 oops. guess i responded too late! lol...i thought you were looking tomorrow! enjoy the new pup and can't wait to see pictures! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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