plain jane Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 *pout* I'm really frustrated/sad/annoyed/feeling defeated with how history is going this year. I decided to get TOG and combine all my kids after reading and reading and reading about it. I even looked an entire unit of it over several months and decided it was going to be just fabulous for us. I went ahead and purchased it all. The entire year plans, the Evaluations, Map Aids, Writing Aids, Pop Quiz... all. of. it. Also, because of the age range of my kids, I went ahead and bought all the primary books for LG, UG, AND D levels for the entire year. I even bought some of the supplemental books. In short, I spent a fortune on history for this year. I didn't want to be bothered with the library and putting things on hold & waiting for them, etc. I wanted everything to go smoothly and purchasing the books was my way to do that. So, what's the problem? I can't make the program work for us. :( I feel like my LG/UG kids are not getting enough "history" out of their reading. The books are great but I don't find that my kids that age are learning or retaining as much as my oldest did by using SOTW when she was their age. Now, I know I can use SOTW with TOG but it's not a primary book and I've been trying to do those. I also am not finding any "work" for the LG/UG kids to do. Sure there are tons of crafts (which was another huge selling part of the curriculum for me so no complaints here) but the writing portions for the little kids are ... lacking. There's not a lot of tangible work for them. Yes, they can learn through crafts but I'm not seeing any retention from what is being covered. My two youngers are not challenged in any way and I don't know how to improve that. Nor, after spending over $800 on a curriculum, do I want to have to supplement it. Sadly, I'm thinking we will have to go to SOTW and AG and ditch TOG despite the money I've invested in it. :glare: Then there's the D level stuff. There's not always answers to the questions that TOG asks so I have to go a-hunting through the books to make sure dd has answered them properly. She's flying through the books and constantly asking for more and it seems that there is not enough work in a week of TOG for her. I've allotted 60 to 90 min per day for history but we're not needing all that time. I'm not sure why. I can't figure out what I'm missing that makes people say it's so rigorous. I'm not seeing that. The literature sheets are simple questions and I do not feel they cover literature well at all. Of course, we're only on week 5 so perhaps it gets better? The unit I looked through was not from Y1 so perhaps this is all a problem with Y1? I'm really starting to think Y1 stinks. :thumbdown: The whole program is not working for me at all. The Map Aids maps are in color which I don't appreciate having to print in. Yes, I can change that, but the water is still shaded, which uses more ink than I would like. Some of the evaluations seem like busy work rather than real learning. Ugh. The list of things goes on. And darn it all, I would REALLY like an answer key to the history questions. I'm really bummed out it's not working. My oldest used to LOVE history. All the kids were so excited for history this year as I was telling them how great it was going to be. Now they are :toetap05: through it as I try to find things to keep them busy for 90 minutes of learning. I'm mostly bummed out that my oldest is not learning anything new that she hadn't learned from our 4 years with SOTW. So much for the next step up. I know this is my fault as working with this program has proved to be exponentially harder than I ever imagined. Or maybe it's just that SOTW really was *that* good for us. :confused: After 5 weeks of this there isn't anything that she's read or learned that she didn't know before. I'm reading the teacher notes with her, discussing the books. :willy_nilly: I can't believe I spent so much money on a program that is supposed to be so fantastic and I simply can't make it work for us. My kids are starting to hate history and I'm starting to feel :cursing: every time I see the TOG binders. I had to get that out there. I feel like such a failure for wasting all that money. My hopes for a great history year have been dashed and now I'm scrambling to figure something out that will work for my kids. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delaney Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Gosh I don't know! Where is Tina??? She is an affiliate and can help you with some of this. I found it to be a great source of literature and really in the k-8 grades I am not too worried about them retaining content as they will review all of it in HS. I believe the answers to the questions are all in the teacher notes. I only used it for 1 1/2 units but will pick it up again after I do American history. Hopefully Tina will chime in. (jonandtinagilbert I think is the name on here):grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azmomx3 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 We're using TOG and I totally understand your frustration. My kids are UG/LG so I understand what you mean by feeling like they're "playing" more than learning. I was pretty frustrated with that at first too. But I kept going and reminding myself that at this stage they're really not expected to retain...that's not the point...they're expected to explore and be exposed to the content and learn to love to learn (at least that's how I understand it). Once I eased up on feeling like a failure because they couldn't remember who Horus was, we're all enjoying it more. We actually adjusted it for my sanity and do all of the reading, and geography during the assigned week but between each cultural section we're taking a week to do all of the crafts and some cooking from that culture and just sort of celebrating the end of that unit and what we learned...way less stress for me since I get all of the supplies together for just one week and we clean it all up during that week. I'm finding that during that week of "celebration" my kids are regurgitating more than I thought they had taken in. I don't even look at the upper levels so I have no idea what's going on there! Anyhow, if you really can't make it work for you, and aren't enjoying it, then you should definatly switch...at least the resale on that stuff is great! Good luck! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 (edited) I think hunting for answers to the questions is one of the reasons TOG is doing such a big revamp of Year 1, this seems to be the year I hear about this. I haven't had any problem with Y2, and so far in Y3. I agree with the above posters about LG years being exposure, that said I read SOTW aloud for everyone and then they do their own levels from there. I also do a family read aloud that is tied to history or science. My DD is an avid reader so for D level she does all the primary reading, coordinated reading from SL, and a vast majority of the alternative reading that our library carries. If it really doesn't work for you after a reasonable period of adjustment (that will depend on your view of reasonable ;)) then move on to what works for your family. For me it's easier to let TOG lead our studies and adjust from there, that may not work for your family. Edited October 6, 2011 by melmichigan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hen Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I tried to use TOG with all my kids and really struggled with it, as wonderful as a program as I thought it was..it just didn't mesh with my teaching style and where my younger kids were at. I ended up using STOW as the main spine (if some of your kids are struggling with it, you might look at CHOW) and I thought the map aids were beautiful, but we really prefer the STOW activity guide maps- I like that it asked you to do things, like circle a city, etc. We plowed through and did half the year, using STOW mainly and the other books as supplemental as I saw fit. I ditched most of the activities, did the lit worksheets as needed and looked online for other printables for the time periods. I also sometimes made up my own questions or made crossword puzzles using words from our reading. I was heavy on narration and having the kids draw something from our reading. I ended up selling it all at the end of the year. I did get half my money back. It was a learning curve. From this, I learned that I prefer a main book as a spine, I don't like to jump around from book to book- except as extra gravy- and I like worksheets to cement what we are learning. don't beat yourself up, come up with a workable plan to keep moving, and sell it when you are done. don't panic, it will be okay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plain jane Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 don't beat yourself up, come up with a workable plan to keep moving, and sell it when you are done. don't panic, it will be okay! Thank you for your post! The biggest part of my problem is I can't find a workable plan to keep moving and so we're just stagnant where we're at and it is stressing me out. I really feel like the kids are not learning anything yet I'm stuck with what to do. I can't do SOTW again with my oldest as we exhausted it the first time around. She's ready for so much more. I think I will go with SOTW for my youngers but then there goes the $$$ I spent on TOG. Live and learn, I guess but wow, that was an expensive lesson. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Jane, have you looked at History Odyssey (level 2) for your oldest? If she's chomping through stuff and asking for more, it might suit her. She can do most of it independently, and provided you have the white Kingfisher and the small collection of books required (which you can probably substitute for other, similar ones tbh), you're pretty much good to go. The eBooks are about $33, but if money is a bit tight you can get the first few weeks from their "Try Before You Buy" option which is free. Rabbit is doing level 2 Middle Ages, and Pooh is combining level 2 Ancients with SOTW (she's ready for logic stage stuff in some respects but not others). HTH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Jane, have you looked at History Odyssey (level 2) for your oldest? If she's chomping through stuff and asking for more, it might suit her. She can do most of it independently, and provided you have the white Kingfisher and the small collection of books required (which you can probably substitute for other, similar ones tbh), you're pretty much good to go. The eBooks are about $33, but if money is a bit tight you can get the first few weeks from their "Try Before You Buy" option which is free. Rabbit is doing level 2 Middle Ages, and Pooh is combining level 2 Ancients with SOTW (she's ready for logic stage stuff in some respects but not others). HTH! We are using HO2 with my 7th grader (He came from public school and level 2 has just enough writing and researching for him). We love it and he is learning quite a bit. We also downloaded the Sample lessons, all of them to really know it was going to work before I bought the program. I wish I had other suggestions on how to use what you already have, I know what a major pain it can be to think a program will work and then it doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SewLittleTime Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 :grouphug: I'm not really sure how to encourage you, but I can certainly empathize with you. Money's tight here, so when I've spent and invested I really feel like I need to use it. Last year, I faced something similiar but with Sonlight. We had enjoyed cores P4/5 through core 2. I bought all of core 3, but just couldn't make it work for us. For some reason, with that particular core we were all miserable. I spent the first have of the year trying to get through it. Finally, in December dh had enough of it, and he told me try something else. We made the switch to TOG in January of last year by trying one unit. For us, the switch was good. But we also started half way through year 2. I do use STOW for a spine with TOG. My kids love it. I use the other books for my kids to read more in depth. This is what works for us. I also don't block out a set time for history. It may only take us 30 minutes on Wednesday when we do geography. That's okay with me. Today, all we did was a crossword I made to work on the vocab. We may have spent 20 minutes. But all of the reading was done for the week. I have my kids do notebooking and that has really helped cement things for them. I'm sorry that your so frustrated. I have watched your threads as you've prepared for TOG. You spent a lot time researching and getting ready for it. I really hope you can find a way to make your history studies all you want them to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leav97 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 This isn't TOG related but, we were having some issues with retention last year. I know it isn't REALLY important since it was just grade 1 but... This year we added a book with an area to color at the top and lines for writing at the bottom. DD colors a picture about the week (or you could cut and paste something relevant) and then narrates a description. She can then flip back through the previous weeks. We're only on week 5 of the year but, it seems to help keep the ideas fresh in her mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leav97 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Duplicate post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I'm glad you posted this because I've been thinking about TOG for next year, but this was a good reality check. I already own almost every SL core and don't think I want to invest a ton of money in another program. I'm going to research HO and AO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily_Grace Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Jane, have you looked at History Odyssey (level 2) for your oldest? If she's chomping through stuff and asking for more, it might suit her. She can do most of it independently, and provided you have the white Kingfisher and the small collection of books required (which you can probably substitute for other, similar ones tbh), you're pretty much good to go. The eBooks are about $33, but if money is a bit tight you can get the first few weeks from their "Try Before You Buy" option which is free. Rabbit is doing level 2 Middle Ages, and Pooh is combining level 2 Ancients with SOTW (she's ready for logic stage stuff in some respects but not others). HTH! I'll second this. We've also found that if we choose not to use a certain book with HO, it is easily substituted with what our library already has or a different activity in place of theirs. One of their spines (Story of Mankind) is a free e-book through Project Gutenburg, too. You might also look into the Creek Edge Press task cards. For $20, you get a full lesson plan without "required" books, just ones that meet the research needed. Maps are needed, but those are free online if you don't have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warneral Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 As if purchasing more would help! But I just thought I'd share that you could do some notebooking pages with your littles if you feel you have time and it would help. There are some generic ones here where a kiddo needs to draw: http://www.currclick.com/product_info.php?products_id=23258&it=1 Or I'm sure there are many other options for notebooking pages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelBee Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I do not have experience with year. 1 :grouphug: I do use site as a spine in year 2. Thinking of what I can do to help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plain jane Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 I do not have experience with year. 1:grouphug: I do use site as a spine in year 2. Thinking of what I can do to help you. Awww, you're sweet. I don't think I need help. I just needed to whine about my $800+ down the toilet. :willy_nilly: I'm going to just ditch it and go with the K12/Oxford series combo. I'll supplement where I can with the TOG books and incorporate some of TOG ideas when possible. I'm going to go back to SOTW + AG for my younger crowd either following TOG loosely or ditching it altogether. I'm just bummed out. The Unit I looked at (in Y2) was so fabulous but Y1U1 has not been a good fit for us. It's hard to say if it gets better as I don't want to waste much more time on it. We've already lost 5 weeks of history instruction. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I'm going to.... go with the K12/Oxford series combo. I'd love your opinion of the Oxford series - or anyone else's, come to that! I'm tempted, but it seems a lot of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plain jane Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 I'd love your opinion of the Oxford series - or anyone else's, come to that! I'm tempted, but it seems a lot of money. Well it's cheaper than TOG. :001_huh::lol::lol: I started buying these books last year (I heard about them too late and missed out on them when they were really cheap) and simply bought one at a time as a good price came up on them. I managed to get 6 of the books ranging in price from 50c for a brand new condition book (woohoo!!) to $20.00ish for the primary sources one. I still have 3 to get but I think I may just skip them. I had dd read through them this week to see if she liked the writing style and if they would interest her. She said she really enjoyed them so I'm going to add in a couple TG for them and run with it. Oh, and thank you for your HO recommendation. I took a good look at it but it doesn't seem "meaty" enough for what my dd is looking for. It does look really good, but I think it would be the wrong fit for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrightmom Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Ladies, What is the K12 Oxford series? Jane, I am truly sorry for the deep disappointment you are experiencing. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plain jane Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 Ladies, What is the K12 Oxford series? Jane, I am truly sorry for the deep disappointment you are experiencing. :grouphug: They are two separate things. :) Human Odyssey is a text used by K12 online class but many here use it on their own without doing the online class. It has student pages and a TG. The Oxford World in Ancient Times series is a series of textbooks. There are 9 books in all, each with a student guide and TG. There are people here who use K12 as a spine and the Oxford books to branch off from it. Sorry my answer is so brief. I'm in a huge hurry but wanted to make sure your question got answered. You can do a search here for K12 Human Odyssey or World in Ancient Times and you'll get more information than you probably ever wanted. :tongue_smilie: Oh. And be sure to have your wallet ready. You'll be wanting to buy these if you look into them. ;) Don't say I didn't warn you!!! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrightmom Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Thanks Jane! You're right..... I put the Oxford series onto my wish list immediately! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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