Spy Car Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Anyone have any thoughts on the pros and cons of these two programs? Or have a third (better alternative)? I would be using these as a "mechanics" supplement to MCT with a 2nd grader who has finished most of the MCT Island level. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 We've used both and I much prefer the Evan-Moor book. It is a better value and seems to track more closely to the types of questions found on standardized tests. It also requires less writing since the student just puts the proofing marks right on or above the passage rather than having to copy over the entire passage down below like EIC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 If you have Teacher File Box, you can download the Daily Paragraph Editing books by going through the EM website (I'm sure you can find them through TFB, too, but it's MUCH easier when they're all in one place). I've usually been able to find something that actually matches one of our topics of study to use for editing practice between a couple of grade levels. I also use the Scholastic Grammar Cop digital download-it's not all editing, and it's sillier than EM, so makes a nice change for my DD now and then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I don't want to derail this thread, but can I ask a quick question? Bill, I know your son is very young. Are you planning to move on to the next level in MCT right away? My little boy will be 7 in Feb. and he is working through Island right now. I am thinking to wait at least until he is in grade 3 for Town level. Just planning ahead. Thanks and sorry for butting in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 It also requires less writing since the student just puts the proofing marks right on or above the passage rather than having to copy over the entire passage down below like EIC. I haven't used the Evan-Moor book, just EIC (which I've liked very much) - but I have to point out that EIC does not require you to copy over the passsage - there is room for that, but it is entirely optional. The first "Beginning" level teaches editing marks, and my students have always used editing marks in the paragraphs themselves, never copied them over. seems to track more closely to the types of questions found on standardized tests. Past the first level, EIC doesn't have any questions at all - it's just paragraphs to edit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Both my boys use Evan-Moor's Paragraph Editing (we download it for free through teacherfilebox). Younger uses the 2nd grade version, older uses the 4th and 5th grade versions. I like them very much, and both boys love doing them. They get to use special editing pens which are reserved just for editing work; that may account for some of their enthusiasm ;) I haven't used EIC, so can't comment on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Past the first level, EIC doesn't have any questions at all - it's just paragraphs to edit. I should clarify that I meant that the mistakes that the student have to correct in DPE seem to track more closely to the things that show up on standardized tests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 I don't want to derail this thread, but can I ask a quick question? Bill, I know your son is very young. Are you planning to move on to the next level in MCT right away? My little boy will be 7 in Feb. and he is working through Island right now. I am thinking to wait at least until he is in grade 3 for Town level. Just planning ahead. Thanks and sorry for butting in. My son is 7 and in Second Grade (and goes to Public School, as you know). We did Grammar Island and Sentence Island over the Summer. This was great because there was no school time. He also made a huge dent in Practice Island. He was doing sentences a day. Now, in "school mode" he is only doing two sentences a week. Still we only have something around 20 sentences left. I wish we had another 100 from MCT. I am not 100% sure what we do when these run out. We still have several sections in Building Language (vocabulary) and a good portion of Music of the Hemispheres (poetics) to finish. The latter I'm sure will be the most challenging for him (by a good deal). The "grammar" has come easily, but the writing and lessons in the creative use of language are much more difficult for him relatively speaking. So many of the writing elements I have deferred until later. I suspect that we will wait until next summer to start Town, as I suspect that we would be in the same situation (or maybe worse) if we started Town earlier. I suspect he would nail the "grammar" (which would be good) and enjoy the vocabulary (which would be good) and struggle with the writing (which would not be good). So I'm not sure what I'm going to do. He loves doing his sentences in Practice Island, that is for sure. I am hoping some editing practice (while not the same thing) would fill some of the same space. Short answer, I'm not sure :tongue_smilie: Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 We've used both and I much prefer the Evan-Moor book. It is a better value and seems to track more closely to the types of questions found on standardized tests. It also requires less writing since the student just puts the proofing marks right on or above the passage rather than having to copy over the entire passage down below like EIC. How does Evan Moor handle the solutions? Are there answers in the back, or does one need either a separate solutions book or a parent/teacher to check the work without a solutions guide? I tend to like "teacher intensive" programs, but this is one area I would like to be as (semi)independent as possible. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 If you have Teacher File Box, you can download the Daily Paragraph Editing books by going through the EM website (I'm sure you can find them through TFB, too, but it's MUCH easier when they're all in one place). I've usually been able to find something that actually matches one of our topics of study to use for editing practice between a couple of grade levels. I also use the Scholastic Grammar Cop digital download-it's not all editing, and it's sillier than EM, so makes a nice change for my DD now and then. Both my boys use Evan-Moor's Paragraph Editing (we download it for free through teacherfilebox). Younger uses the 2nd grade version, older uses the 4th and 5th grade versions. I like them very much, and both boys love doing them. They get to use special editing pens which are reserved just for editing work; that may account for some of their enthusiasm ;) I haven't used EIC, so can't comment on that. I've been here how long? I have never heard of teacherfilebox. What's that? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 My older dd did EIC (beginning) book this spring after she finished Writing Tales 1. She did several pages a day in only a few minutes. I felt cheated price-wise compared to how long it took to whip through it. I'm not sure that level was worth it. I haven't considered the A, B, or C-level books as we have plenty to occupy our LA time right now. I don't have any experience with the EM books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 I haven't used the Evan-Moor book, just EIC (which I've liked very much) - but I have to point out that EIC does not require you to copy over the passsage - there is room for that, but it is entirely optional. The first "Beginning" level teaches editing marks, and my students have always used editing marks in the paragraphs themselves, never copied them over. Past the first level, EIC doesn't have any questions at all - it's just paragraphs to edit. It looks like the very first level of EIC (Beginning 1) hasn't been released yet. This sort of basic mechanics is one area where my child shows no special aptitude as of yet, so we may need to come in on ground level. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Teacher File box puts the answers at the end of each section. I assume if you buy the whole Daily Paragraph editing book they're at the end of the book. Honestly, though, I haven't used them-it is pretty quick to scan through and to tell my DD to look again (or not). Teacher File Box is Evan Moors subscription download service, and through it you can print the books from their site, a section at a time. It's been worth it for my DD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 It looks like the very first level of EIC (Beginning 1) hasn't been released yet. This sort of basic mechanics is one area where my child shows no special aptitude as of yet, so we may need to come in on ground level. Bill This is one good reason for Teacher File box-what I've discovered with my DD (who seems to be much like your son) is that a full book at a grade level is more than a bit of overkill-so you can do a few 2nd grade or even 1st grade examples, picking and choosing, and then move on to a level with more "meat" in it-much more palatable to skip pages when you're not paying $15.99/book! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Mental note: check out Teacher File Box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamolina Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 How much is File Box? Is it a one year subscription? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 It looks like the very first level of EIC (Beginning 1) hasn't been released yet. This sort of basic mechanics is one area where my child shows no special aptitude as of yet, so we may need to come in on ground level. The first EIC book we used was for 3-4th grade (called Beginning, but it sounds like they're adding another level beneath it). It had the kid edit for one type of error at a time, and started with multiple choice and didn't work up to full-on mixed paragraph editing till the end of the book. The rest of the books in the series are completely mixed editing, and assume you already know your editing marks (or gives the option of rewriting the edited paragraph, which we've never bothered doing). I use the books with multiple children (they give a license to copy within a family or classroom) so I photocopy a page a week - in this way one book lasts one year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I did it through Homeschool Buyers Co-op, and it was $70/yr-and has been worth it. Especially since they messed up the homeschool subscriptions and restarted mine, about 4 months in, then sent me a $70 gift certificate, so I got 16 months essentially for free :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 The first EIC book we used was for 3-4th grade (called Beginning, but it sounds like they're adding another level beneath it). It had the kid edit for one type of error at a time, and started with multiple choice and didn't work up to full-on mixed paragraph editing till the end of the book. The rest of the books in the series are completely mixed editing, and assume you already know your editing marks (or gives the option of rewriting the edited paragraph, which we've never bothered doing). I use the books with multiple children (they give a license to copy within a family or classroom) so I photocopy a page a week - in this way one book lasts one year. Yes, they have a new introductory book that is expected to be finished in November, and which may (or may not) be available in December-January. With many (most) educational materials we are using 3rd Grade level materials, but this is one area where we're decidedly 2nd Grade ;) :D Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 So I called Evan Moor, thinking I could at least start Daily Paragraph Editing now (and kick the can down the road between deciding long-term between it and EIC). But they tell me that the solutions are not in the Student books (understandable given the school use) and that the Teachers Edition has the solutions on a facing page. And I'm advised to xerox the student page in the TM for the child. Grrrr. I want simplicity on this one. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 So I called Evan Moor, thinking I could at least start Daily Paragraph Editing now (and kick the can down the road between deciding long-term between it and EIC). But they tell me that the solutions are not in the Student books (understandable given the school use) and that the Teachers Edition has the solutions on a facing page. And I'm advised to xerox the student page in the TM for the child. Grrrr. I want simplicity on this one. Bill I'd subscribe to TeacherFileBox if I were you. We too got our subscription for free when they messed up our payment through HSBC, but we've used it even more than I thought we would, for History Pockets, science projects, grammar and story starters. As mentioned above, you can print one week's worth of Daily Editing at a time, with teacher key included, and mix and match as you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 I'd subscribe to TeacherFileBox if I were you. We too got our subscription for free when they messed up our payment through HSBC, but we've used it even more than I thought we would, for History Pockets, science projects, grammar and story starters. As mentioned above, you can print one week's worth of Daily Editing at a time, with teacher key included, and mix and match as you go. It is $12.99 a month if you get it directly from them, and they don't mess up your order ;). I'm not sure I need a "subscription service" I just want a mechanics editing book I can assign with minimal fuss on my end. Is that asking too much? :D Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 But they tell me that the solutions are not in the Student books (understandable given the school use) and that the Teachers Edition has the solutions on a facing page. And I'm advised to xerox the student page in the TM for the child. Grrrr. I want simplicity on this one. Bill The answers are on the BACK of the page. The student can't see the answers unless he/she flips the page over. I make a big deal about how looking at the answers is cheating and haven't had an issue with peeking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 You could just pay per download and download a couple of sections of the Daily editing 2nd grade for your son, and see if it's what you want, and then make a decision from there. If you bought the e-book version of the DE book, you could then print just the student pages, but have the answers available, and not do the subscription (although I think the subscription is worth it, especially since I suspect your son will not need to do all of 2nd before he's ready for 3rd). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 The answers are on the BACK of the page. The student can't see the answers unless he/she flips the page over. I make a big deal about how looking at the answers is cheating and haven't had an issue with peeking. Are you talking about the TM? If so, I was misinformed by Customer Service at Evan Moor, but I'm glad to be set straight. They said the student work and the solutions were on facing pages (which would be a problem), but if the solution is on the back then my problem is solved. Thanks for clearing that up. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamolina Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I just looked at a book copy of Daily Editing today, and it really seems to me like the answers are on the opposing page, so that they are clearly visible while working. I thought it was odd. An ebook might be the way to go if this is the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.g. Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I just looked at a book copy of Daily Editing today, and it really seems to me like the answers are on the opposing page, so that they are clearly visible while working. I thought it was odd. An ebook might be the way to go if this is the case. I just pulled out my DPE 2 to be sure. The answer key for each lesson is on the left-hand side of the page, clearly visible when looking at the student page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 I just looked at a book copy of Daily Editing today, and it really seems to me like the answers are on the opposing page, so that they are clearly visible while working. I thought it was odd. An ebook might be the way to go if this is the case. I just called my local Teachers Store and they confirmed the answers are on the left facing page and are therefore clearly visible. Egads, these "school publishers" don't always make it easy for us home education types. They did mention the pages are perforated, and suggested they could be torn out (with tomorrows answer on the back of today's lesson) but what a pain. And I'm not thrilled at paying the same amount for an e-book that I have to print myself as a hard-copy would cost me. Grumble. Grumble. :D Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Are you talking about the TM? If so, I was misinformed by Customer Service at Evan Moor, but I'm glad to be set straight. They said the student work and the solutions were on facing pages (which would be a problem), but if the solution is on the back then my problem is solved. Thanks for clearing that up. Bill The book I have doesn't specify whether it is a TM or a student book but since it includes the answer key and a S&S I presume it's the TM. I was given it as a hand-me-down from a lady in my support group with older kids who had only used a few lessons out of it. It has a copyright date of 2004- maybe they've changed it in recent years? :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 The book I have doesn't specify whether it is a TM or a student book but since it includes the answer key and a S&S I presume it's the TM. I was given it as a hand-me-down from a lady in my support group with older kids who had only used a few lessons out of it. It has a copyright date of 2004- maybe they've changed it in recent years? :confused: Apparently you lucked out. For unknown reasons this is evidently the only Evan Moor book series set up this way. Boo hoo. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen the RD Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) Bill, at one time, EM sold a student practice book for the DPE series. I bought mine through Rainbow Resource. I checked the site tonight and apparently they are no longer available. However, I'm giving you the link so that you can at least see what they look like. Perhaps, you could find some copies elsewhere on the internet. http://www.rainbowresource.com/searchspring.php?q=daily+paragraph+editing I suppose another option for you might be to buy the Teacher's Guide and have the binding cut off and made into a spiral bound book. That way your ds could work on a page without having the answers facing up on the left. OR just tear out a page at a time and hand it to him. They are perforated for removal. HTH, Jennifer Edited October 7, 2011 by Jen the RD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 Bill, at one time, EM sold a student practice book for the DPE series. I bought mine through Rainbow Resource. I checked the site tonight and apparently they are no longer available. However, I'm giving you the link so that you can at least see what they look like. Perhaps, you could find some copies elsewhere on the internet. http://www.rainbowresource.com/searchspring.php?q=daily+paragraph+editing I suppose another option for you might be to buy the Teacher's Guide and have the binding cut off and made into a spiral bound book. That way your ds could work on a page without having the answers facing up on the left. OR just tear out a page at a time and hand it to him. They are perforated for removal. HTH, Jennifer Thank you Jennifer :001_smile: Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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