Christians- should teenagers be spanked?

[jejily]

We tried this once. We honestly thought the police would come have a talk with our child.

 

We found out that once the police are involved the parents lose all of their authority over the situation.

 

We ended up in a very scary place within the juvenile court system.

 

I am glad it played out better for you. We ended up sending our child out of state for awhile to shake loose of the juvenile court system. It was an absolute nightmare.

 

 

Yikes! :ohmy:

[Cindy in C-ville]

Haven't read all the replies, but my quick answer is absolutely, unequivocably NO! My kiddoes range from 15yo-8yo and NOBODY gets spanked anymore. I'd rather give the time to my kiddoes coming alongside them, working out the issues, coming up with consequences that make sense than to fork over the money they would surely need to get time on the psychiatrist's couch if we were to spank them as teenagers.

 

~Cindy

[Julpost]

:iagree:

I don't believe the "Rod verses" address spanking at all. The "rod" was a symbol of leadership and authority. I believe the Bible is telling us to take charge of our children, but leaves it up to our judgement and the guidance of the Holy Spirit as to how we are to do so. With that said, I am not convinced that the Bible condemns spanking, but I do not buy into the assertion that spanking is Biblical mandate.

 

Joanne? :001_smile:

 

As far as this situation, I think spanking or otherwise punishing an 18 year old crosses the line. Legally she is an adult, and needs to begin making her own decisions and living her own life. I would in some cases invoke an "under my roof..." clause, where she can either choose to follow my rules or live elsewhere. However, she is beyond the age where such discipline is beneficial.

[hmschoolmom22]

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: I am raising two beautiful children who had to ask me recently what the word "spank" means. They have never been hit by adults, and yet they are remarkable children. Just like all other children, they are not perfect. But they are wonderful people, who friends, relatives, acquaintances, and perfect strangers often compliment on their pleasantness and good behavior. And like all other parents, dh and I are not perfect. But we try very hard to teach them appropriate behavior, how to make good decisions, how to treat other people thoughtfully and respectfully. It makes me physically ill to hear about people who use the Bible to justify and endorse hitting children, and it makes no sense whatsoever to me to use the Bible to justify and endorse hitting adults, either.

 

 

:iagree:

I could have written your post! my children too are not perfect and neither are we as parents BUT, we have very well behaved children and like you, constantly get comments about what outstanding kids they are. Also like you,

it makes me angry beyond belief when people use the Bible as a way of justification for laying a hand on a child!

[Julpost]

Well I can say that with my first son, I listened to all the parenting advice that recommended spanking for every infraction...and we battled mightily when he was young. I wish I had done things differently. He has a difficult streak in him, it's hard to explain. But his heart is beginning to soften and I'm thankful that I still have time with him. Thanks to Raising Godly Tomatoes and believe it or not, the Pearls, I am learning how to show respect for ds and build our relationship. It has made an absolute world of difference!!

 

With my next 2 daughters, I hardly spanked at all and we have few problems with them ever. My next daughter is only 3, so a swat on the behind only in the more dire of circumstances works.

 

I hope I never have to spank the 1 yo. How realistic that is, I don't know. But what I do know is training, teaching, and building the relationship with the dc is what the emphasis should be. It enables them to hear you when you need to discipline them and/ or reach their heart. Otherwise, they don't hear, nor do they care to. A dangerous place for teens or even tweens these days.

 

That's my opinion anyway.

[Cindy in C-ville]

((((Pam))))) Just so sorry.

 

And also (((()))) for you too, Calming Tea. I just read back over all the posts and like others, I'm concerned for you. That pastor should not be in ministry (and I'm a pastor's wife who has quite a story of sin/mistakes/restoration/etc.) I totally believe in restoration, but this man can't have it until he steps out of ministry and gets help. His wife needs help. The denominational people need to know what is going on in this family and then HELP them. I don't understand how your husband can advocate sitting under his "strong" teaching when his life is in such opposition to the Bible. (BTW, I am reformed as well.) I would hope that you would be able to find a good solid church in your area, but I would recommend "house church" with a few like-minded families over continuing in this church.

 

I'm continuing to pray for you!

 

~Cindy

[LisaKinVA]

I too, was raised in a household where spanking was the discipline used for *every* infraction. However, I wasn't spanked after I was 11 or 12.

 

That said, we've been trying to do things differently with our children. We started off with spanking being the primary discipline, but have graduated towards spanking being used only for lying, or defiance (my oldest is almost 9).

 

My children know that spanking is an option, but we've been working with time-outs, re-direction, alone time, cuddle time -- various other disciplines that better fit the "crime."

 

If I found out a pastor of ours believed this way, I would leave. My dh is more stern than I am, but even he wouldn't stand for spanking an 18yo --- for any reason.

[Peek a Boo]

wow.

 

lots of good advice. a few things that stand out to me:

 

1. they will likely not accept the "be subject to authorities" verses if they feel compelled to spank as a calling from God. If the local law went against scripture [command to murder, idol worship, sex w/ multiple partners, infant sacrifice, etc etc etc] then Christians shouldn't hesitate to break the law. just ask Daniel and the Hebrew midwives ;)

 

2. the "if they are still spanking then it isn't working" sounds perfect. the whole wrath thing? oh. yeah. i do remember my grandma slapping me once. I deserved it tho. I really did --mouthed off somethin' fierce. It made a non-wrathful impression on me, but she did it fast and w/ no pomp or ceremony. She was also a very wonderful woman that i [usually] respected a lot. The years of building respect and a good relationship literally gave credibility and authority to her response when i did go overboard. So i can't say that hitting someone ALWAYS incurs wrath, but you better be pretty darn careful how and when you do that.

 

3. CHECK THE LAW. Even if you are sure your dh is correct on this issue, call an attorney and get a second opinion. If you really love these people, verify this info so they can take steps to protect themselves.

 

4. Yes, the pastor is unfit to be teaching. That's black and white scripturally. You are duty bound to honor scripture, not learn skewed theology from an unfit pastor.

 

5. You will learn more theology seeing it MODELED than you will seeing it MANGLED. Find a church that models Christianity! don't get hung up in being a scriptural know-it-all. You can read articles online for that ;)

 

6. I have a couple thoughts on leaving. Yes, i would want to be as much an influence in this girl's life as i could. She needs proper discipling and a person she can trust. But to do that you would be going around her parents. they would find that unforgivable. They would make life miserable for you. Know that.

 

7. Tell someone. Someone needs to know about this if the actions you take don't produce a change. Report it to a social worker. They can find ways to investigate even adults in abusive situations. Let them do the investigating. This girl will need a boatload of help. You simply don't have the means to provide the years of professional counseling she will need.

 

8. Get out as soon as you can. If you feel a calling to stay and act, do so. If that turns sour or shows no change , leave. Scripture is clear to surround yourself w/ those who are doing RIGHT, and it carries LOTS of warnings to avoid --and flee-- those who are doing evil. If you are truly concerned about "proper theology", then start by following scripture.

 

9. Rod and staff. There are some interesting interpretations of this referring to Word and Authority.

 

good luck!

[Colleen in NS]

And I'm not worried about them fighting back because they have to lean over and submit to the spanking. If they've been spanked, then by that point they've already agreed they deserve it and are leaning over in order to take the punishment.

 

This might be true of some teens, but a strong-willed teen who is being disrespectful or disobedient is not going to lean over and take a spanking. EDIT: to clarify my thought, I imagine the teen either won't take it, or will take it and get revenge later.

[beansprouts]

In Jewish culture children were considered accountable at the age of 12. The barmitzfa (I have no idea how to spell this and neither does my computer) signaled their entrance into the adult world. You also have to actually agree that the verses about the "rod" mean to spank your children. There is a very very good argument against that interpretation.

 

 

I still have many, many pages to catch up on this thread, and if this has been asked and answered, just smile and be patient with me :001_smile:

 

I have been very interested in the Jewish interpretation of these verses, and the perspective on spanking. Can you explain more?

[beansprouts]

2. Effective semi-Biblical argument: Suggest that they read "Dare to Discipline" by James Dobson. Those who advocate physical punishment for Christian homes often cite this book and this author, so he has credibility with them.

 

I suppose if you are looking for materials that promote spanking, Dobson is your man. For the sake of perspective, may I recommend something like Heartfelt Discipline by Clay Clarkson ;)

[beansprouts]

All that to say if I had a husband/father of my kids who thought like the quotes above, I would be very, deeply concerned. The thinking represented in the quotes above is unwell, not good or acceptable parenting and disturbing.

 

I would give him a break on this. He is a father of a young family who is still trying to survive the preschool years. He doesn't know yet what his strategy will be for "discipling" his teens/young adults. He will grow as they do, I am sure ;)

 

CT you have made a very courageous decision. Please let us know how it goes.

[RebeccaC]

This might be true of some teens, but a strong-willed teen who is being disrespectful or disobedient is not going to lean over and take a spanking.

 

 

They might and then get their revenge at a later date :001_huh: Like in public so that mom could be publicly humiliated. Saw that happen more than once in a very similar situation. Thought process, OK I'll take it now but you will get yours later mom...... Not right but nothing good comes from spanking a teen especially an 18 yo.

[RebeccaC]

What on earth would be the purpose of spanking a teen? Seriously, I would like to know.

 

 

Control through physical force and humilation.

[beansprouts]

At long last I have finished reading this thread :001_smile: I knew when it was born yesterday morning it was going to take off, and by the time I got back to it there would be ten pages or more.

 

CT - I think your decision to speak with your pastor and his wife is courageous. God willing their hearts will be open and they will hear what you have to say. I would caution you as others have not to expect much...

 

I really think you and your dh should consider carefully whether this church is going to provide the nurturing family for you and your dh to grow as Christians and parents. If your dh likes the meaty sermons there are plenty of online resources. I am sure many of us could share some of our favorite pastors ;) But your local church is your community, your "village" and it is important that they represent the values you want for yourself and your family.

 

It is very easy to claim our beliefs when our world is at peace. However, we are all influenced by our environment whether we believe that or not. During those times of frustration, when you are feeling overwhelmed and out of control, those thoughts creep in: "She is behaving like a child, so she must be treated like one", "He must be made to obey"... and before we know it we are performing the actions which we claimed to despise.

 

But I have confidence in you and your husband. You are young, and smart, and have a fresh outlook on your faith. You read your Bible with open minds and ask yourself what it really says rather than swallowing the accepted interpretations passed on through generations. Most of all I have confidence in you because your husband RESPECTS you and your intelligence, and he listens to you. Continue to question man and seek out GOD'S WILL and you two will be just fine {{HUGS}}

[VaKim]

I You also have to actually agree that the verses about the "rod" mean to spank your children. There is a very very good argument against that interpretation.

 

 

As I said before, I cannot see how it could ever be necessary to spank teens, and if you have come to that point, it is by then a losing battle. However, I cannot stand misinterpretation of Scripture, so here are verses that show what is indeed meant by "rod." Also, any time this word is used in Scripture, it is referring either to something for measuring, or an instrument for punishment. A simple word study will reveal this.

 

Proverbs 22

15Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child;

The rod of discipline will remove it far from him.

 

Proverbs 23

13Do not hold back discipline from the child,

Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.

14You shall strike him with the rod

And rescue his soul from Sheol.

 

Proverbs 26

3A whip is for the horse, a bridle for the donkey,

And a rod for the back of fools.

 

Proverbs 29

15The rod and reproof give wisdom,

But a child who gets his own way brings shame to his mother.

[beansprouts]

Also, any time this word is used in Scripture, it is referring either to something for measuring, or an instrument for punishment. A simple word study will reveal this.

 

Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me...

 

;)

[VaKim]

Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me...

 

;)

 

Yes. The staff is for guiding. The rod is not only for beating off predators, but also for poking, beating, or even breaking the legs of a sheep if necessary to get it back to the fold.

[unsinkable]

Yes. The staff is for guiding. The rod is not only for beating off predators, but also for poking, beating, or even breaking the legs of a sheep if necessary to get it back to the fold.

 

But where did Jesus ever speak of breaking the legs of the sheep to get it back in the fold? He told of the shepherd who went looking for the lost sheep...leaving the others...because that one sheep (soul) was so important.

 

If Christ is the Saviour, shouldn't we turn to His messages, not the messages of the OT? Didn't He start a new covenant?

[VaKim]

But where did Jesus ever speak of breaking the legs of the sheep to get it back in the fold? He told of the sheperd who went looking for the lost sheep...leaving the others...because that one sheep (soul) was so important.

 

If Christ is the Saviour, shouldn't we turn to His messages, not the messages of the OT? Didn't He start a new covenant?

 

According to my beliefs, the whole Bible is the Word of God. I know there are all kinds of "flavors" of Christianity out there now, but this is mine. :)

[RebeccaC]

As I said before, I cannot see how it could ever be necessary to spank teens, and if you have come to that point, it is by then a losing battle. However, I cannot stand misinterpretation of Scripture, so here are verses that show what is indeed meant by "rod." Also, any time this word is used in Scripture, it is referring either to something for measuring, or an instrument for punishment. A simple word study will reveal this.

 

.

 

 

A simple word study showed that a rod also was a symbol of authority, a means of casting lots, used to preform miracles that saved lives and brought freedom, prophetic imagery, and processing dill.

[Laurie4b]

If you look at the life of Jesus, you will find that it was the rare Pharisee who was converted to the truth through His teaching. If Jesus was rarely successful with this group.....well, that's why people are telling you that you won't be able to win an argument on this point.

 

 

What you describe of your friends has many marks of Phariseeism. 1st) The strong adherence to a particular verse of Scripture without taking the whole of Scripture into account. That's why the Pharisees could be provoked by Jesus healing on the Sabbath. There is not one verse in the whole Old Testament that says healing on the Sabbath is okay. You have to get the "principle" that mercy is paramount from an overall reading of the OT. 2) Adding to the Scripture. Your leaders are correct, there is no verse that says that age 18 is an adult; there is also no verse that says "while they are under their parents' roof" they are not an adult. Your friends have added that part in. In the OT, sons lived under their parents' roofs until the parents died (at a ripe old age in many cases). Do you ever read of Isaac whipping Jacob? And Jacob was a handful. 3) The rules that the Pharisees tended to adhere to were ones of punishment, not mercy (See again the healing of the woman on the Sabbath.)

 

The principles that several other posters have mentioned are wisdom and not doing something to exasperate your children or provoke them to anger. Joseph could have followed the letter of the law and had Mary publically scorned for what he thought was fornication (since the Jews couldn't stone at the time) but the Scripture says, "But Joseph, being a righteous man, did not want to subject her to public disgrace." Notice, this means he did NOT subject her to the letter of the law and that was called righteousness.

 

Disgrace is a form of shame. That kind of shaming is what is done by "spanking, whipping, whatever" a teenager. The fact that you know about it means the parents are subjecting her to public disgrace. That is not righteous.

 

I agree with others. You are well warned to think very carefully about the true spiritual colors revealed here in the leaders of your church. My life experience has been that those who put so much stress on looking good on the outside (cleaning the outside of the cup as Jesus put it) are all too often hiding something really gross.

 

Remember, you are unlikely to win a proof-texting debate with a Pharisee, because the real issue is a heart issue. For the sake of their souls, you can try. If they don't repent, you need to think carefully about their leadership. However, if you read Col. 2, you'll see that you should not put yourself under the spiritual authority of those who practice legalism.

[wheezie]

This is my first reply on this board, but I just have to say how happy I am at the way this thread has turned out. I was so sure it would either get ugly, or there would be lots of support for hitting an 18 yr old (per my past experience w/ other boards). I'm so glad to see so many take the gentle approach. I could have been this 18 yr old-my mom still abuses my sister (now 36) to this day. We (my mom and I) will never have any kind of relationship all due to the way she chose to parent us. Anyone who thinks hitting doesn't cause any lasting harm is seriously mistaken.

 

Carry on. :)

[Carol in Cal.]

I suppose if you are looking for materials that promote spanking, Dobson is your man. For the sake of perspective, may I recommend something like Heartfelt Discipline by Clay Clarkson ;)

 

You have entirely missed my point and misunderstand my position utterly.

 

I agree that Dobson is pro-spanking, EVEN THOUGH I AM NOT. Because the OP was looking for Biblical arguments against spanking 18 year olds, I felt that seeing that this pro-spanking Christian author strongly opposes spanking young people in their teens would be more persuasive to the offending pastor and his family than an author with a pure anti-spanking position.

 

That is why I specifically recommended him--because I thought that he would have more credibility with these people than a positive discipline or attachment parenting author. I have heard the arguments for violent control of children my whole life, and it is a mindset that includes a tremendous fear of a misstep--of letting children go too 'free' and maybe losing them for the Kingdom. That mindset is not one that I espouse, but my familiarity with it tells me that Sears, for instance, would not be persuasive to these people.

 

I am mortified that anyone could read my posts and think that I was pro-spanking or advocated for such a position.

[daniv]

As I said before, I cannot see how it could ever be necessary to spank teens, and if you have come to that point, it is by then a losing battle. However, I cannot stand misinterpretation of Scripture, so here are verses that show what is indeed meant by "rod." Also, any time this word is used in Scripture, it is referring either to something for measuring, or an instrument for punishment. A simple word study will reveal this.

 

Proverbs 22

15Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child;

The rod of discipline will remove it far from him.

 

Proverbs 23

13Do not hold back discipline from the child,

Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.

14You shall strike him with the rod

And rescue his soul from Sheol.

 

Proverbs 26

3A whip is for the horse, a bridle for the donkey,

And a rod for the back of fools.

 

Proverbs 29

15The rod and reproof give wisdom,

But a child who gets his own way brings shame to his mother.

 

I would say I agree with VaKim.

Where in the Bible does it ever say that you should no longer spank/use the rod to spank your child? I wouldn't use a rod myself, I'm just saying. The Bible basically promotes spanking as a good form of discipline.

 

I know some people may think the old testament is no longer relevant. But the whole Bible is relevant. Even Jesus quoted from the Old Testament. We don't have to follow the letter of the law now that we are in the new covenant, but we should take the wisdom from the old testament that still applies to today.

[daniv]

Oh and directly OT with the thread. I think that spanking an 18 yo is not necessary. By that age, they are an adult. If they don't follow your rules then I would personally send the out on there own. They can still be a part of my life but I'm not going to let them stay under my roof if they don't listen.

 

That's my 2 cents.

[Retired]

and keeping the child in the kingdom. My father took that scripture to heart. It was very preached and accepted. I can tell you the 3 kids he raised with this principle. The oldest myself was basically hell bent on destroying myself. I push the limits to show them who was finally in control. My middle sister was not as rebellious but she is not "walking in the kingdom". My younger brother was more rebellious than me. He is not walking in the kingdom and has currently been living with a lady over 10 years. He went about 3 years without any contact with them.

 

I believe a Christian parent should disciple and discipline. The point is when the spanking provokes (causes anger) and does not discipline. Than scripturally it should be stopped.

 

I can't think of any 18 yo accepting a spanking without anger (resentment )unless they have been abused and are completely brainwashed.

 

It breaks my heart that anyone would condone being whipped at 18 or anyone thinking this is going to make a Christian out of this person.

[Peek a Boo]

I cannot stand misinterpretation of Scripture, so here are verses that show what is indeed meant by "rod." Also, any time this word is used in Scripture, it is referring either to something for measuring, or an instrument for punishment. A simple word study will reveal this.

 

 

a simple word study might seem to solve this, but an in-depth study of the words in the whole counsel fo scripture reveal quite a bit:

 

for those taht haven't done a word study before, here are a couple of options to get you started. feel free to google for more studies from other people.

 

http://americanadiangirl.blogspot.com/2006/03/dictionary-studies-on-rodshebet.html

 

 

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/moodyfamily/disciplineconclusions.html

 

 

I think one might feel a personal conviction to use a specific form of discipline on a specific child, but to say that the Bible demands spankings is a misinterpretation of scripture.

 

I do believe that there needs to be a physical component to child rearing. Joanne's GOYB site shows that: instead of hitting a child, you get up and guide them immediately to what they should be doing [train up a child in the way they should go...].

[beansprouts]

The principles that several other posters have mentioned are wisdom and not doing something to exasperate your children or provoke them to anger. Joseph could have followed the letter of the law and had Mary publically scorned for what he thought was fornication (since the Jews couldn't stone at the time) but the Scripture says, "But Joseph, being a righteous man, did not want to subject her to public disgrace." Notice, this means he did NOT subject her to the letter of the law and that was called righteousness.

 

 

:iagree: With everything in this post. Excellent points made. Would someone please rep Laurie for me, I am all out for today.

[beansprouts]

This is my first reply on this board, but I just have to say how happy I am at the way this thread has turned out. I was so sure it would either get ugly, or there would be lots of support for hitting an 18 yr old (per my past experience w/ other boards). I'm so glad to see so many take the gentle approach. I could have been this 18 yr old-my mom still abuses my sister (now 36) to this day. We (my mom and I) will never have any kind of relationship all due to the way she chose to parent us. Anyone who thinks hitting doesn't cause any lasting harm is seriously mistaken.

 

Carry on. :)

 

:grouphug:

 

Welcome to the board Wheezie! These are some of the most thoughtful and intelligent people on the web. I hope you enjoy it here as much as I have :001_smile:

 

...as she said "Carry on" ;)

[beansprouts]

I am mortified that anyone could read my posts and think that I was pro-spanking or advocated for such a position.

 

I am sorry, Carol. I understand your point now, thank you for explaining.

 

I didn't mean to offend. I am technically neutral on spanking and have at times used the tool myself. I do see how the practice can easily become harsh and abusive, and I think it needs to be used very carefully. I reject the assertion that spanking is mandated by the Bible, however, I don't think it is necessarily wrong to spank if done "correctly" (i.e. in a non-abusive way). I also know that many devoted Christian families have decided that spanking is just not for them and have raised perfectly fine children without it. I have a great deal of respect for them and their choices.

[Colleen in NS]

They might and then get their revenge at a later date :001_huh: Like in public so that mom could be publicly humiliated. Saw that happen more than once in a very similar situation. Thought process, OK I'll take it now but you will get yours later mom...... Not right but nothing good comes from spanking a teen especially an 18 yo.

 

I agree. I edited my response to further clarify what I was thinking.

[Sweetpeach]

Ladies, I've been deeply impacted by this thread.

 

On one level, I feel affirmed in our relational, non-spanking approach to walking gracefully with our kidlets.

 

On a deeper level, I despair over the pain/trauma that some of you experienced at the hands of your own parents. (((Pam))) and there were others (((Wheezie))) . . . the fact that you have done the intense emotional work of walking out forgiveness, that you see a different way of parenting. I guess I just need to say that I have such respect for those of you who have walked out of deep personal injustice, and yet continue to carry on.

 

Such integrity and amazing inner-strength . . . I stand in awe of you ladies. IRL, I too would be loving and hugging you; validating your worth and goodness.

 

xoxoxo

Tricia

[Doran]

Ladies, I've been deeply impacted by this thread.

 

On one level, I feel affirmed in our relational, non-spanking approach to walking gracefully with our kidlets.

 

On a deeper level, I despair over the pain/trauma that some of you experienced at the hands of your own parents. (((Pam))) and there were others (((Wheezie))) . . . the fact that you have done the intense emotional work of walking out forgiveness, that you see a different way of parenting. I guess I just need to say that I have such respect for those of you who have walked out of deep personal injustice, and yet continue to carry on.

 

Such integrity and amazing inner-strength . . . I stand in awe of you ladies. IRL, I too would be loving and hugging you; validating your worth and goodness.

 

xoxoxo

Tricia

 

 

 

My heart feels full -- of respect, of sympathy, of affirmation that discipline need not vanquish the spirit.

 

Thank you for these words, Tricia.

[CactusPair]

There are a lot of threads and I haven't gone through them, so forgive me if this has been mentioned already.

 

I am not bible verse literate, can't quote it at all, with a few exceptions from the Gospels.

 

But I do know that Jesus and the bible in general teaches law abidance.

 

To spank a person who is legally adult--18 years in our country--is a crime called assault, whether the family agrees or not.

 

To hit an adult person is assault. If they are spanking the young woman on her rear, it may also be classified as a sexual offense.

 

She is old enough to be married, an adult woman, with an adult woman's body. It seems wrong to be touching her in this way.

 

Physical and sexual assault under the law, whether the church or family has other opinions.

 

I also assume that the daughter can, at a later date, have her parents charged with these crimes. I do not know the statute of limitations, but it probably isn't only a few weeks.

 

She could also bring a civil suit later for damages against her parents and maybe the church for its support of these teachings. Depending on how she is affected, if she is, her future husband, her marital partner, may be a co-plantiff.

 

Just because the daughter is going along with it now, doesn't mean she will feel the same way in the future.

 

I cannot offer you bible verses, but I'm sure that someone who is more literate could find them to support law abidance, prudence and respect of an adult woman's body.

 

In peace

[RebeccaC]

There are a lot of threads and I haven't gone through them, so forgive me if this has been mentioned already.

 

I am not bible verse literate, can't quote it at all, with a few exceptions from the Gospels.

 

But I do know that Jesus and the bible in general teaches law abidance.

 

To spank a person who is legally adult--18 years in our country--is a crime called assault, whether the family agrees or not.

 

To hit an adult person is assault. If they are spanking the young woman on her rear, it may also be classified as a sexual offense.

 

She is old enough to be married, an adult woman, with an adult woman's body. It seems wrong to be touching her in this way.

 

Physical and sexual assault under the law, whether the church or family has other opinions.

 

I also assume that the daughter can, at a later date, have her parents charged with these crimes. I do not know the statute of limitations, but it probably isn't only a few weeks.

 

She could also bring a civil suit later for damages against her parents and maybe the church for its support of these teachings. Depending on how she is affected, if she is, her future husband, her marital partner, may be a co-plantiff.

 

Just because the daughter is going along with it now, doesn't mean she will feel the same way in the future.

 

I cannot offer you bible verses, but I'm sure that someone who is more literate could find them to support law abidance, prudence and respect of an adult woman's body.

 

In peace

 

 

Excellent Post! I am out reps for the day but I will keep this post in mind! :iagree:

[daniv]

Someone wrote in this thread about how their being spanked(specifically whipped I think) lead them and their siblings to be rebellious and away from God.

 

I will give the opposite experience myself.

 

I was spanked as a child(not whipped) when I did really bad things, like playing in the middle of the road once where semi-trucks were a regular and stealing over a hundred dollars from my parents at age 10. Every time I was spanked I knew exactly what I did wrong and that I shouldn't do it again. I have absolutely no resentment toward my parents for having spanked me and they never had to spank me after I was 10; in my opinion because they used it the way it should have been used until then so I knew pretty much what was write and wrong after that. So this pretty much shows if you spank from the beginning for the write reasons, then you won't even likely have to think about spanking an older child. And like others are saying, once they are an adult they are on their own. If they live under my roof and don't follow my rules as an adult, they get to move out. I just wanted to include a "positive" spanking experience(one that lead to correction of behavior) since there are so many people against it.

[Joanne]

I would give him a break on this. He is a father of a young family who is still trying to survive the preschool years. He doesn't know yet what his strategy will be for "discipling" his teens/young adults. He will grow as they do, I am sure

 

My response was not intended to be in response to his belief in "spanking as a parenting tool" but about his perspective on family, church leadership, and family dynamics as a whole. I *am* very concerned but it's not because he believes in spanking young children as discipline.