High standards or just insanity? (state test related)

[Aelwydd]

Ok, so my ds is enrolled in Texas Virtual Academy, which uses k12 curriculum. As such, he's considered a "public schooled student," and must take the EOY test for third grade like his ps peers.

 

Part of the program has something called Study Island, and this is a weekly assignment that basically involves a bunch of test questions that are similar to those found on Texas' new test, STAAR. In fact, one assessment came pretty much straight from STAAR. Keep in mind, this is a brand new assessment, as since 2003, the state has utilized the TAKS standards.

 

Having seen these questions, all I can say is: Holy cow!! The reading portion is a little advanced, but totally appropriate for his age.

 

The math section, OTOH... (I need "Psycho" music effects here.)

 

It is just...um, beyond advanced. These questions involved adding up 6 to 10 numbers at a time, multiplication, division, geometry (lots of questions like, "Find the perimeter of..." and "Find the acute angle of..."), statistics and probability, algebraic stuff, knowledge of integers, heavy fractions work, and so forth.

 

Going through this with my dh, left us feeling distinctly inadequate about our 3rd, 4th, 5th grade math education...ok, ok, even 7th grade math. I'm not exaggerating at all here. This level of math is just daunting. There's a lot of it I didn't learn until middle school. And they expect third graders to master it.

 

My reaction beyond the initial shock, is mixed. My ds likes math, and if he learns this, he'll definitely be advanced. However, even with his gift for mathematics, I'm not sure that he has the...structural underpinnings in his brain to grasp this. A LOT of it is abstract. It assumes a very high level understanding of not only multiplication, but all mathematical operations, and the logic to know how to use more than one at a time to solve a word problem.

 

Also, I think it's highly ironic that probably the only chance my ds has of actually mastering the concepts the state has laid out in STAAR, is for him to learn it in a one-on-one, hs'ing paradigm. You cannot convince me that a teacher with 25 students can teach these concepts with only about an hour and a half a day to teach math could achieve proficiency with the majority. That means that third graders and their parents are probably getting bulldozed with math homework this year. Like hours of it, each evening.

 

So, thoughts, opinions, ideas? Please share!

[forty-two]

When I took the TX state exams back in the late 90s, our practice exams for math were a *lot* tougher than the actual exam. Could that still be the case?

[Aelwydd]

I don't know, because I attended ps in North Carolina. I know that was the case with the PSAT and SAT.

 

I hope that you're right.

[Shawna in Texas]

Is the STAAR replacing TAKS? I've never heard of STAAR.

[Aelwydd]

Is the STAAR replacing TAKS? I've never heard of STAAR.

 

Yes, starting this year. Achievement standards for schools will be suspended for one year, since obviously, they need to establish some kind of baseline with a new test.

 

Here's info on STAAR.

[Murphy101]

All of what you mention is in the third and fourth grade MCP math books. It's not that complicated of math. Though what you think constitutes "heavy fractions" is vague, mcp does cover fractions (mostly adding and subracting and mixed and irregular for third iirc)

 

That said, they have to make some of the test advanced or all the kids will top out of it and it won't give a marker of where they do place. Just that it is past that test.

[Aelwydd]

All of what you mention is in the third and fourth grade MCP math books. It's not that complicated of math. Though what you think constitutes "heavy fractions" is vague, mcp does cover fractions (mostly adding and subracting and mixed and irregular for third iirc)

 

MCP = k12 math book? I agree that the concepts are all in there. However, the problems themselves are considerably advanced. I'm going to see if I can manage to copy and paste some examples.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

:lurk5:

[Heather in Neverland]

That sounds like the math we teach at my school in elementary. Our 1st graders can tell you all about acute and obtuse angles and find perimeter. Our 2nd graders start learning multiplication. Our 3rd graders are balancing equations and solving for X. And we use an American math curriculum by Houghton-Mifflin.

 

So I guess the standards are different than when I was in school but the kids don't seem to think this math is very hard. They pick it up pretty easily even in a classroom setting.

 

Math IS different than when I was in school but I think it is better and I bet your child picks it up even better than you hope. :grouphug:

[Murphy101]

MCP = k12 math book? I agree that the concepts are all in there. However, the problems themselves are considerably advanced. I'm going to see if I can manage to copy and paste some examples.

 

No. It isn't k12. Modern Curriculum Press mathematics. It's been around a long time. I have been using it for over a decade now, so I'm very familiar with what it covers. It isn't presented as complicated or difficult and my kids haven't had a problem with it. Starting about the middle of 4th, their main complaint is not that they can't do it, but that it takes "forever" because of the long division and heavier multiplication.

 

That sounds like the math we teach at my school in elementary. Our 1st graders can tell you all about acute and obtuse angles and find perimeter. Our 2nd graders start learning multiplication. Our 3rd graders are balancing equations and solving for X. And we use an American math curriculum by Houghton-Mifflin.

 

So I guess the standards are different than when I was in school but the kids don't seem to think this math is very hard. They pick it up pretty easily even in a classroom setting.

 

Math IS different than when I was in school but I think it is better and I bet your child picks it up even better than you hope. :grouphug:

 

I think math sucked at my school in general, so I don't have much comparison. Dh however remembers covering this stuff approx the same grades. I think it really depended on the school. Sadly, that's probably still true.

[joannqn]

I looked at the standards. They sound daunting when you see the subject areas listed as probability, geometry, algebra, but the fact is the stuff taught at third grade is really simplistic. Probability is just reading a bar graph and answer questions like "How many red candies did Fred have?" Area is looking at a rectangle with with unit squares drawn in it and counting them; they want them to know that's what area means is all. I'm pretty sure Saxon covered all of this by then, as do many spiral math curricula.

 

If you use MUS, you won't get to some of this stuff until after third grade. However, if you use MUS, there is a lot of stuff you'll cover that won't be on the test until later.

[WeeBeaks]

My charter school kids take the STAAR here in California, only my oldest so far since we don't test at all until 2nd grade.

 

My oldest did quite well, and we didn't drill much. We simply used Singapore, which covers most if not all that. He took the 3rd grade STAAR last spring and we just got the results. He did wonderfully well (above 90th percentile, I don't honestly remember exactly) with only his Singapore as prep. I know there are other math curricula on the same scale as Singapore too. I wouldn't worry too awfully much about it.

 

Our charter does provide the practice test booklets from the prior years' tests. That is the entirety of the prep we do (takes a few hours in the spring before the exam). He has scored well. The things he didn't score well in (the writing subportion of the LA), I know he is weak in. It was no surprise to me at all when I got the results for him.

 

It's much less daunting than it sounds on paper, for the kid and for mommy. :grouphug:

[Aelwydd]

I looked at the standards. They sound daunting when you see the subject areas listed as probability, geometry, algebra, but the fact is the stuff taught at third grade is really simplistic. Probability is just reading a bar graph and answer questions like "How many red candies did Fred have?" Area is looking at a rectangle with with unit squares drawn in it and counting them; they want them to know that's what area means is all. I'm pretty sure Saxon covered all of this by then, as do many spiral math curricula.

.

 

Yeah, no, those weren't the kind of probability questions he had. Same for geometry. A perimeter question he had was as follows:

 

There was a rectangle set next to two rulers. The ruler along the top side was lined up so the side matched from 0 to exactly 1 inch.

 

The ruler on the side was lined up from the 4 inch marker until the 6 inch maker.

 

The other two sides of the rectangle were blank.

 

The question was, "Find the perimeter."

 

This question encompassed multiple steps of logic. First, the student must understand how to measure accurately, even when the edge is not lined up with a starting point of "0." The student must make the connection that one side equals 1 inch, and the other equals 2 inches (not 4 or 6).

 

Next, the student must understand geometrically that in a rectangle, the short sides are equal, and the long sides are equal. Therefore, both short sides equal 1 inch apiece, and both long sides equal 2 inches.

 

Finally, the student must add them to find the answer.

 

 

Now, I think finding basic perimeter in 3rd grade is totally grade appropriate. But, I don't see the above as being beginning grade level for most 3rd graders.

 

And that question was one of the easier problems on the assessment!

Edited September 27, 2011 by Aelwydd

[Aelwydd]

Also, I just wanted to share that I got his test results and an explanation. Apparently, the same test was administered to grades 3 - 10th grade. So, third graders had a minimum score for grade level in both math and reading. This min. score was less than the min. for 4th graders, and their scoring min. was likewise less than 5th grade.

 

This not only reassured me that they won't actually expect him to know middle school level math at the end of this year, but that I can actually recognize middle school math when I see it!

[melissel]

Yeah, no, those weren't the kind of probability questions he had. Same for geometry. A perimeter question he had was as follows:

 

There was a rectangle set next to two rulers. The ruler along the top side was lined up so the side matched from 0 to exactly 1 inch.

 

The ruler on the side was lined up from the 4 inch marker until the 6 inch maker.

 

The other two sides of the rectangle were blank.

 

The question was, "Find the perimeter."

 

This question encompassed multiple steps of logic. First, the student must understand how to measure accurately, even when the edge is not lined up with a starting point of "0." The student must make the connection that one side equals 1 inch, and the other equals 2 inches (not 4 or 6).

 

Next, the student must understand geometrically that in a rectangle, the short sides are equal, and the long sides are equal. Therefore, both short sides equal 1 inch apiece, and both long sides equal 2 inches.

 

Finally, the student must add them to find the answer.

 

 

Now, I think finding basic perimeter in 3rd grade is totally grade appropriate. But, I don't see the above as being beginning grade level for most 3rd graders.

 

And that question was one of the easier problems on the assessment!

 

You said this was an "end of third grade" assessment, though, right? So he'd be expected to be able to answer it in May/June? I don't remember when I learned about perimeter in school, but I know that my DD covered what you're describing in the middle of the RightStart math book we used during her third-grade year (level C). She'd be able to answer that question now, and we just started fourth-grade.

 

Without more examples of problems, it's hard to say whether the rest is reasonable. I'm curious to hear more about what you're seeing though.

[melissel]

Also, I just wanted to share that I got his test results and an explanation. Apparently, the same test was administered to grades 3 - 10th grade. So, third graders had a minimum score for grade level in both math and reading. This min. score was less than the min. for 4th graders, and their scoring min. was likewise less than 5th grade.

 

This not only reassured me that they won't actually expect him to know middle school level math at the end of this year, but that I can actually recognize middle school math when I see it!

 

Oh, there you go then :lol:

[Aelwydd]

You said this was an "end of third grade" assessment, though, right? So he'd be expected to be able to answer it in May/June? I don't remember when I learned about perimeter in school, but I know that my DD covered what you're describing in the middle of the RightStart math book we used during her third-grade year (level C). She'd be able to answer that question now, and we just started fourth-grade.

 

Without more examples of problems, it's hard to say whether the rest is reasonable. I'm curious to hear more about what you're seeing though.

 

 

No, it is a beginning of the year assessment. There is this one, and one at the end of the year. This is linked to the EOY because it covers the same type of material.

[GoVanGogh]

I have a question about the below quote and hope it doesn't get lost here, since it is somewhat off topic.

My charter school kids take the STAAR here in California

Is our new STAAR test really the same as given in other states?

According to DMN this morning:

The state Legislature decided in 2007 that the TAKS would be replaced by the State of Texas Assessments of Academic Readiness, or STAAR, which includes the EOC tests.

Has it just been renamed ("State of Texas") for our state?

I was talking with a public school mother IRL the other day and she said it is the exact same as California's test, but I had not heard or read that previously. If so, does California have higher standards than Texas? :tongue_smilie:

[Aelwydd]

Oh, there you go then :lol:

 

Yes! Here's another example:

 

It took Alice 29 hours to read a novel. It took Mark four times as long. Jan read the same book in 39 hours, and her friend John three times as long. Find the equation that matches this story.

 

a.) 29 + 4 < 39 + 3

 

b.) 29 + 166 > 39 - 3

 

c.) 29 + 166 < 39 + 117

 

d.) 29 + 39 > 166 + 117

 

 

Now, please tell me you wouldn't have freaked out (just a little) if your 8 year old was asked this question on a test.

[melissel]

No, it is a beginning of the year assessment. There is this one, and one at the end of the year. This is linked to the EOY because it covers the same type of material.

 

Hmmm, so...I'm confused. I just re-read the OP for more clarity. The questions you're seeing are on the weekly assignment from Study Island that he's expected to be completing now? Do they line up at all with what his K-12 math books are teaching him now? I would think the math in his books would line up with the math on the assessments. No? If not, then that alone is kind of odd.

 

Yeah, my DD9 wouldn't have been able to answer the perimeter questions at the beginning of 3rd grade. Maybe the assessments are designed in part to see what the student knows, rather than designed for him to get them all right? I really don't see the point either, now that I understand the scenario a little better.

[melissel]

Yes! Here's another example:

 

It took Alice 29 hours to read a novel. It took Mark four times as long. Jan read the same book in 39 hours, and her friend John three times as long. Find the equation that matches this story.

 

a.) 29 + 4 < 39 + 3

 

b.) 29 + 166 > 39 - 3

 

c.) 29 + 166 < 39 + 117

 

d.) 29 + 39 > 166 + 117

 

 

Now, please tell me you wouldn't have freaked out (just a little) if your 8 year old was asked this question on a test.

 

I'm a little freaked out right now at the idea of solving it myself! :lol: No, that doesn't really seem reasonable for a new third-grader.

[Aelwydd]

I have a question about the below quote and hope it doesn't get lost here, since it is somewhat off topic.

Is our new STAAR test really the same as given in other states?

According to DMN this morning: Has it just been renamed ("State of Texas") for our state? [/Quote]

 

I wondered this, too. STAAR is an ancronym for "State of Texas Assessement of Academic Readiness." It's a new test.

 

I was talking with a public school mother IRL the other day and she said it is the exact same as California's test, but I had not heard or read that previously. If so, does California have higher standards than Texas? :tongue_smilie:

 

The CA test is STAR, not STAAR. If Texas were merely ripping off its EOY from CA, then they wouldn't need to use this year as the year to begin establishing baselines. I spoke to my ds' teacher this morning, and she said that administrators are still trying to figure out what should be considered minimum, grade proficient, and excellent standards for the test.

[melissel]

The CA test is STAR, not STAAR. If Texas were merely ripping off its EOY from CA, then they wouldn't need to use this year as the year to begin establishing baselines. I spoke to my ds' teacher this morning, and she said that administrators are still trying to figure out what should be considered minimum, grade proficient, and excellent standards for the test.

 

It sounds to me like they're having some growing pains around this. I'd imagine you'll see some fairly dramatic changes as the year goes on.

[Aelwydd]

Hmmm, so...I'm confused. I just re-read the OP for more clarity. The questions you're seeing are on the weekly assignment from Study Island that he's expected to be completing now? Do they line up at all with what his K-12 math books are teaching him now? I would think the math in his books would line up with the math on the assessments. No? If not, then that alone is kind of odd.

 

Yeah, my DD9 wouldn't have been able to answer the perimeter questions at the beginning of 3rd grade. Maybe the assessments are designed in part to see what the student knows, rather than designed for him to get them all right? I really don't see the point either, now that I understand the scenario a little better.

 

I'm a bit confused by it, too. See, that monster assessment he took was something called a STAAR Benchmark test.

 

The weekly questions he gets from Study Island are 10 question assignments/tests that are based on concepts from STAAR.

 

I think you're right, that the Benchmark was just to place him to see where he is at. That's what I had thought when we administered the test. About 5 minutes into it was when I got seriously concerned. I told dh, they surely don't expect him to know this level of math yet. I mean, if he did, they'd move him up a grade (or six) right?

 

He scored on grade level for both reading and math though. The scores for the STAAR benchmark at the end of the year have a higher minimum, so obviously, they expect him to learn more, but not master everything on that test.

[Aelwydd]

It sounds to me like they're having some growing pains around this. I'd imagine you'll see some fairly dramatic changes as the year goes on.

 

Aye, that's what I think, too! At least promotion to the 4th grade doesn't hinge on STAAR performance though (at least according to his teacher. How much you wanna bet that that story will change at some point?).

[GoVanGogh]

 

The CA test is STAR, not STAAR. If Texas were merely ripping off its EOY from CA, then they wouldn't need to use this year as the year to begin establishing baselines. I spoke to my ds' teacher this morning, and she said that administrators are still trying to figure out what should be considered minimum, grade proficient, and excellent standards for the test.

See - I thought the CA test was STAR... But a PP said her child took the test in CA, which is the same thing I heard locally a few weeks ago. So are both incorrect? They are not the same? (Just similar silly name.)

[beezus]

Several years back, my daughter attended a virtual school - different one, but they used Study Island too. Dd had a very hard time with Study Island, especially math, because Study Island kept asking her questions about concepts that she hadn't yet been introduced to in her math course. It was very frustration-inducing for her, as she didn't really have the math tools yet to figure out a lot of the questions. I complained to the virtual school teacher and she was eventually able to target the assigned Study Island sections a little more appropriately. If you have a teacher or resource person at your virtual school, you might give them some feedback about this, if you haven't already. My dd passed her state tests with flying colors on the first try, so I think what a previous poster said about the test being easier than the test practice may be true. Anyway, after passing the test, we were able to discontinue the dreaded Study Island for the year.

[melissel]

He scored on grade level for both reading and math though. The scores for the STAAR benchmark at the end of the year have a higher minimum, so obviously, they expect him to learn more, but not master everything on that test.

 

I think this is the proof in the pudding. What a frustrating way to get at the results though! I don't know--is it better or worse than the old ways? Thankfully, I haven't had to experience standardized testing in many years. All I know are the horror stories I read here. Maybe it's good that they're at least trying to change the paradigm? Or maybe they're just throwing money and half-baked ideas at a Gordian Knot!

[Aelwydd]

Several years back, my daughter attended a virtual school - different one, but they used Study Island too. Dd had a very hard time with Study Island, especially math, because Study Island kept asking her questions about concepts that she hadn't yet been introduced to in her math course. It was very frustration-inducing for her, as she didn't really have the math tools yet to figure out a lot of the questions. I complained to the virtual school teacher and she was eventually able to target the assigned Study Island sections a little more appropriately. If you have a teacher or resource person at your virtual school, you might give them some feedback about this, if you haven't already. My dd passed her state tests with flying colors on the first try, so I think what a previous poster said about the test being easier than the test practice may be true. Anyway, after passing the test, we were able to discontinue the dreaded Study Island for the year.

 

Yeah, we've noticed a trend in SI to ask questions he may not have been exposed to. He's done well on all of them so far, getting 80% or more. But, he is very good in math, better than I was at his age. So, he has this intuitive understanding of numbers that serves him well. Typically, he'll get about 60 - 70% of the questions. Then, he'll sort of "guess" at the one or two questions that he kind of gets, but doesn't yet have the tools to flesh it out. He's almost always right when he does this. For the remaining or or two questions that are beyond him, he just goes with whatever.

 

We will explain to him the concepts on some of the problems after the test.

 

Now, reading on the other hand? That's his Achilles' heel!

[Aelwydd]

I think this is the proof in the pudding. What a frustrating way to get at the results though! I don't know--is it better or worse than the old ways? Thankfully, I haven't had to experience standardized testing in many years. All I know are the horror stories I read here. Maybe it's good that they're at least trying to change the paradigm? Or maybe they're just throwing money and half-baked ideas at a Gordian Knot!

 

I don't know either, melissel! I had various standardized testing in ps of course, but while it was boring as h-e-double-hockey-sticks, headache inducing, and sometimes stressful, I wasn't particularly prone to test anxiety about it. But then, they didn't put the same emphasis on it that they do nowadays.

 

I think the tests can serve a really useful purpose, if everyone understands the goal, and how it measures a student's knowledge. But, when you go into it without any knowledge like we did, it isn't fun! :glare: I don't have any issue with them teaching the concepts on the test--I think those are actually really excellent standards.

 

I just think that, as I stated before, the best chance ps school students have of passing this test with flying colors is to be taught these concepts at one-on-one, such as in hs'ing!

[Renee in NC]

Yes! Here's another example:

 

It took Alice 29 hours to read a novel. It took Mark four times as long. Jan read the same book in 39 hours, and her friend John three times as long. Find the equation that matches this story.

 

a.) 29 + 4 < 39 + 3

 

b.) 29 + 166 > 39 - 3

 

c.) 29 + 166 < 39 + 117

 

d.) 29 + 39 > 166 + 117

 

 

Now, please tell me you wouldn't have freaked out (just a little) if your 8 year old was asked this question on a test.

 

Considering that it makes no sense...yeah, I'd be more annoyed than anything.

 

Only a or b could be correct as c and d are not true. However, the only way it would make sense is if it were multiplication, not addition. Even then, it doesn't make sense - it never actually asked a question, so you can't have an equation.

[WeeBeaks]

See - I thought the CA test was STAR... But a PP said her child took the test in CA, which is the same thing I heard locally a few weeks ago. So are both incorrect? They are not the same? (Just similar silly name.)

 

The charter spells it STAAR? Maybe they are wrong? :confused: I'm not ruling anything out there, my apologies if they are different. Confusing nevertheless if they have the same pronunciation but are different.

 

In either case, I wish you peace of mind as you deal with this. If it truly is a brand new test not based on anything else, there will be YEARS likely of working out the kinks, before they throw the thing out and move on to the next test IMHO. I don't mean any particular state by the way in my negative assessment of their ability to choose and stick with a test either, or regarding analysis of the tests. Here in CA it seems daily we have in the newspaper more schools who cheated on their standarized testing (public schools that is), and the way then they are defined by percentiles of the whole test results, it blows everyone's results completely up. Nothing is accurate.

Edited September 27, 2011 by WeeBeaks

[Aelwydd]

Considering that it makes no sense...yeah, I'd be more annoyed than anything.

 

Only a or b could be correct as c and d are not true. However, the only way it would make sense is if it were multiplication, not addition. Even then, it doesn't make sense - it never actually asked a question, so you can't have an equation.

 

That's what I thought, too!! I guess the student is supposed to guess what the problem is about? I figured it was "c" since that "matched" or described the sentence.

[Aelwydd]

The charter spells it STAAR? Maybe they are wrong? :confused: I'm not ruling anything out there, my apologies if they are different. Confusing nevertheless if they have the same pronunciation but are different.[/Quote]

 

Yes. I already posted the acronym and the website for the STAAR test. It stands for "State of Texas Assessment of Academic Readiness." Here is the site again.

 

In either case, I wish you peace of mind as you deal with this. If it truly is a brand new test not based on anything else, there will be YEARS likely of working out the kinks, before they throw the thing out and move on to the next test IMHO. I don't mean any particular state by the way in my negative assessment of their ability to choose and stick with a test either, or regarding analysis of the tests. Here in CA it seems daily we have in the newspaper more schools who cheated on their standarized testing (public schools that is), and the way then they are defined by percentiles of the whole test results, it blows everyone's results completely up. Nothing is accurate.

 

That's why I'm glad that they won't be using STAAR results as a requirement for promotion this year (and probably not next either). By 5th grade, I really hope to be in Canada, and dealing with their standardized tests. :001_smile:

[melissel]

That's what I thought, too!! I guess the student is supposed to guess what the problem is about? I figured it was "c" since that "matched" or described the sentence.

 

But 29*4 does not equal 166! 29*4=116 and 39*3=117. So A would be correct if the plus signs were multiplication symbols. Are you sure you copied it correctly? Or is there just a horrid mistake on their site? :001_huh:

Edited September 28, 2011 by melissel

[Aelwydd]

Or is there just a horrid mistake on their site? :001_huh:

 

God, wouldn't that be poetic?! I probably mis-copied it, because trying to do a screen capture wouldn't work on the test (I'm sure the buggers planned it that way), so I had to write it down by hand. I'll go back and look.

 

For the sake of the little remaining faith in the public school test makers that I have, please assume that this is my transcription mistake. :lol:

[melissel]

God, wouldn't that be poetic?! I probably mis-copied it, because trying to do a screen capture wouldn't work on the test (I'm sure the buggers planned it that way), so I had to write it down by hand. I'll go back and look.

 

For the sake of the little remaining faith in the public school test makers that I have, please assume that this is my transcription mistake. :lol:

 

:lol::lol::lol: Poetic indeed! I'm :lurk5: to hear whose error it was...

[Aelwydd]

:lol::lol::lol: Poetic indeed! I'm :lurk5: to hear whose error it was...

 

Oh hush, you know it was mine. And you're just laughin' it up! :tongue_smilie:

 

But just in case we really are doomed to no-win test questions, now I gotta go check it.

[Bootsie]

I haven't looked at the STAAR material yet, but I did take a close look at TAKS a couple of years ago. The materials said that "probability" was being covered in 3rd grade. However, for the 11th grade (and final) TAkS test a formula sheet was given that included: 1 year = 365 days, 1 year = 52 weeks, 1 year = 12 months,... all the way down to 1 minute = 60 seconds. This was in addition to basic formulas for perimeter, area, etc.

 

So, the state of Texas does not have the expectation that a high school graduate knows that there are 24 hours in a day!

[GoVanGogh]

I haven't looked at the STAAR material yet, but I did take a close look at TAKS a couple of years ago. The materials said that "probability" was being covered in 3rd grade. However, for the 11th grade (and final) TAkS test a formula sheet was given that included: 1 year = 365 days, 1 year = 52 weeks, 1 year = 12 months,... all the way down to 1 minute = 60 seconds. This was in addition to basic formulas for perimeter, area, etc.

 

So, the state of Texas does not have the expectation that a high school graduate knows that there are 24 hours in a day!

:lol:

Probably not.

I lost all faith in the ps system in Texas after looking at the 5th grade science test. One of the "physics" related questions was: Which of the following items does a bike need to coast down a hill? Handlebar streamers? Handlebar basket? Pedals? Or... Are you ready?! A front wheel! :001_huh:

[Tree Frog]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Alice read for 29 hours and Mark read 4 times what Alice read, shouldn't it be a mutliplication problem (Alice read 29 hours; Mark read 29 * 4 hours) instead of an addition problem? If the problem read "It took Alice 29 hours to read a novel. It took Mark four hours more then Alice", it would fit what one of the given answers. Same thing with Jan and John. Please someone tell me what I'm missing since obviously I'm missing something!

 

ETA: Never mind. It was already covered. I'm not missing anything!! :lol: (yet.)

It took Alice 29 hours to read a novel. It took Mark four times as long. Jan read the same book in 39 hours, and her friend John three times as long. Find the equation that matches this story.

 

a.) 29 + 4 < 39 + 3

 

b.) 29 + 166 > 39 - 3

 

c.) 29 + 166 < 39 + 117

 

d.) 29 + 39 > 166 + 117

 

Edited September 28, 2011 by wilrunner

[joannqn]

Also, I just wanted to share that I got his test results and an explanation. Apparently, the same test was administered to grades 3 - 10th grade. So, third graders had a minimum score for grade level in both math and reading. This min. score was less than the min. for 4th graders, and their scoring min. was likewise less than 5th grade.

 

This not only reassured me that they won't actually expect him to know middle school level math at the end of this year, but that I can actually recognize middle school math when I see it!

 

That's actually a pretty useful test, then, if you can get the standards for each grade level. You can see where he falls by grade level rather than just by his grade level.

 

We use the MAP test, which does the same thing but is computerized, with the computer choosing the next question based on how you answered the previous question. It's been the most useful test.

 

Yes! Here's another example:

 

It took Alice 29 hours to read a novel. It took Mark four times as long. Jan read the same book in 39 hours, and her friend John three times as long. Find the equation that matches this story.

 

a.) 29 + 4 < 39 + 3

 

b.) 29 + 166 > 39 - 3

 

c.) 29 + 166 < 39 + 117

 

d.) 29 + 39 > 166 + 117

 

 

Now, please tell me you wouldn't have freaked out (just a little) if your 8 year old was asked this question on a test.

 

 

They should have explained how the test worked so you knew not to worry about part of the test being too difficult. Even knowing how the MAP test worked, sort of anyway, I called the school to make sure they gave my daughter the correct test the first time she took it. I mean, the reading section was asking an 8 year old questions using the Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner and Writing for College as source texts. Turns out she scored very high (11th grade), which is why she was getting those difficult questions.

Edited September 28, 2011 by joannqn

[jennynd]

Yes! Here's another example:

 

It took Alice 29 hours to read a novel. It took Mark four times as long. Jan read the same book in 39 hours, and her friend John three times as long. Find the equation that matches this story.

 

a.) 29 + 4 < 39 + 3

 

b.) 29 + 166 > 39 - 3

 

c.) 29 + 166 < 39 + 117

 

d.) 29 + 39 > 166 + 117

 

 

Now, please tell me you wouldn't have freaked out (just a little) if your 8 year old was asked this question on a test.

 

 

this is a stupid question and making no sense. there are four different individual, what are thy trying to compare?

[Aelwydd]

this is a stupid question and making no sense. there are four different individual, what are thy trying to compare?

 

It's a horrid question, IMO! I just logged on to re-check the question. The SI section only lets you see the questions your student gets wrong (which obviously, he didn't get this one right). I wish I could copy and paste all the questions on here directly to get everyone's opinions. I know it's the first year of this test, so there will be duds. But, to me, it seemed a subjective question, "Which equation best describes the story?" (That was the actual wording. I paraphrased it when writing it down earlier.)

 

So, anyway, the only part I wrote down wrong appears to be answer c. The 166 should have been 116. The other figures I copied down right.

 

After reading it, it makes sense to say that Alice's 29 hours, plus Mark's hours, when you add them together, equal fewer total hours than the other pair's hours. I mean, yeah, that option describes the above story in a way that makes sense.

 

It just seems like a crappy question to me. But then, you all know I kind of had a moment of panic about the whole test anyway.

[Aelwydd]

They should have explained how the test worked so you knew not to worry about part of the test being too difficult. Even knowing how the MAP test worked, sort of anyway, I called the school to make sure they gave my daughter the correct test the first time she took it.

 

Yeah, that's what I suspected when taking it, but I wasn't sure. Dh was tempted to give our ds a few hints or tips, but we thought if we caused ds' scores to be inflated at all, then they might assume a higher proficiency in math than he is ready for. So, we let the chips fall. He scored a 66%.

 

However, the way they weigh the scores, they translate them into a scoring chart that's anywhere from 1500--5000 I believe it is. Anyway, anything between a 2085 and ~2200 in Reading was grade level for him. Anything between 2100 and ~2500 was grade level for Math.

 

So, his 66% = a 2200 score. That's relieving for me, but I just wish we'd been told not to panic when we saw some seriously advanced math questions. All we were told was he was taking a 3rd grade assessment test. I was expecting 2nd to 5th grade material, to establish a baseline.

 

Thus, my shock.

[kitten18]

:lol:

Probably not.

I lost all faith in the ps system in Texas after looking at the 5th grade science test. One of the "physics" related questions was: Which of the following items does a bike need to coast down a hill? Handlebar streamers? Handlebar basket? Pedals? Or... Are you ready?! A front wheel! :001_huh:

OMG - I almost choked on my food.:lol::lol::lol:

 

 

 

We are in a K12 charter in CA. Study Island is so stupid and obnoxious.

[Kirch]

It's a horrid question, IMO! I just logged on to re-check the question. The SI section only lets you see the questions your student gets wrong (which obviously, he didn't get this one right). I wish I could copy and paste all the questions on here directly to get everyone's opinions. I know it's the first year of this test, so there will be duds. But, to me, it seemed a subjective question, "Which equation best describes the story?" (That was the actual wording. I paraphrased it when writing it down earlier.)

 

So, anyway, the only part I wrote down wrong appears to be answer c. The 166 should have been 116. The other figures I copied down right.

 

After reading it, it makes sense to say that Alice's 29 hours, plus Mark's hours, when you add them together, equal fewer total hours than the other pair's hours. I mean, yeah, that option describes the above story in a way that makes sense.

 

It just seems like a crappy question to me. But then, you all know I kind of had a moment of panic about the whole test anyway.

 

It is a crappy question. There IS no question. They obviously want you to compare and find the equation that shows the relationship (i.e., which pair read more/less hours), but they didn't ASK that. Very poorly written question!

[melissel]

That's actually a pretty useful test, then, if you can get the standards for each grade level. You can see where he falls by grade level rather than just by his grade level.

 

We use the MAP test, which does the same thing but is computerized, with the computer choosing the next question based on how you answered the previous question. It's been the most useful test.

 

I kind of agree that it's a useful test concept, but I can also see where it could be very discouraging to a lot of kids. Trying to answer question after question based on stuff she'd never learned would send my DD9 into meltdown mode very quickly, and telling her in advance that she'd never learned some of the concepts so not to freak out if she couldn't answer some of the questions would just be an excuse for laziness.

 

I like the way your MAP test is developed though--I was wondering if there was an element of self-calibration in the STAAR as well.

 

It's a horrid question, IMO! I just logged on to re-check the question. The SI section only lets you see the questions your student gets wrong (which obviously, he didn't get this one right). I wish I could copy and paste all the questions on here directly to get everyone's opinions. I know it's the first year of this test, so there will be duds. But, to me, it seemed a subjective question, "Which equation best describes the story?" (That was the actual wording. I paraphrased it when writing it down earlier.)

 

So, anyway, the only part I wrote down wrong appears to be answer c. The 166 should have been 116. The other figures I copied down right.

 

After reading it, it makes sense to say that Alice's 29 hours, plus Mark's hours, when you add them together, equal fewer total hours than the other pair's hours. I mean, yeah, that option describes the above story in a way that makes sense.

 

It just seems like a crappy question to me. But then, you all know I kind of had a moment of panic about the whole test anyway.

 

Well, maybe part of the test is problem-solving, in that you have to determine, IN SPITE of poorly phrased test questions, what the correct answers would be? :tongue_smilie: Although to be honest, I had no trouble figuring out what was required for answering the original question. Then again, I'm 37, so that may have something to do with it!

 

And yes, I did suspect the error was in transcription, but oh, I so wanted it to the test's error and not yours :lol: