PeterPan Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 (edited) What am I looking for? This isn't for my dd btw but for something else. Must be secular, so no R&S. But what I need for this purpose is something as *thorough* as R&S, if that makes sense. Excellent writing is even better. Must be standard (no MCT or anything weird). Cheap is great. PS castoffs are great. What is this? Edited September 16, 2011 by OhElizabeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunaLee Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Hake/Saxon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I agree with Luna that Hake might be what you want. I almost bought it but decided against it because I was afraid the cheap pages would affect my chemical sensitivities. An older series (what I went with) that would probably satisfy your criteria is Warriner's. If you need a TE, though, that can be a challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janice in NJ Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Holt Elements of Language http://rainbowresource.com/product/Holt+Elements+of+Language+Homeschool+Package+Grade+7+%28First+Course%29/047823/584948516f89011f18829cf0?subject=7&category=9174 From the description: Holt Elements of Language, which is included in the Saxon Homeschool Language Arts Packages for 6th through 12th grades, is the “heir apparent†to Warriner’s Grammar and Composition. In fact, John Warriner remains on the author list for these books even though he died in 1987. If you’ve been around the homeschool community for a few years, you’ve probably heard or read some reference to Warriner’s program. It’s the elusive gold standard that other programs are measured by. Elusive because books by that name have been out of print for years and are only available on the used market. “Gold standard†because many think that Warriner’s mastery approach of “rule, example, and practice†is the way that grammar should be taught. Pricey!! ;) The TE's can be found used in the standard locations - Amazon, half.com, etc. Older editions of the student text are also available for a couple of bucks. But of course, it takes time to find them. And you won't have the tests, quizzes, etc. It depends on what you want/need..... Are you sure you don't just want R&S. ;) For what it's worth... Peace, Janice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 SWB recommends Warriner's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Hake/Saxon teaches grammar incrementally, so lots of review. It is extremely thorough and is very traditional aside from the incremental approach. Warriner's is a standard public school text. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karensk Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 SWB recommends Warriner's. ...perhaps an older edition of Warriner's if you want the diagramming. The more current ones are titled, "English Composition & Grammar" and have dropped off the diagramming, from what I've seen. Emmanuel Books sells the answer key and some used copies of an older edition Third Course (9th grade) which I bought several years ago. The Warriner's I used in junior high looked like this (except it was the First and Second Courses for 7th & 8th grades); diagramming was included. HTH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalmia Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I have Hake Grammar and Writing 7 (we tossed the writing book) and Warriner's. Hake will be open-and-go. The pages are really cheap pulp which turned me off, but the lessons are very thorough and there are lots of them (over 600 pages). My boy does not complain about doing them even though he loves MCT and other more literary approaches. There is less actual work in Warriner's than Hake. And if you can't get a TE for Warriner's, some of the work will be a pain to grade. BUT I think that having Warriner's as a reference is invaluable. I'm really happy with the combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swainsonshawk Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 What about Voyages in English? SWB has recommended this, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 What about Voyages in English? SWB has recommended this, too. I haven't seen the current VIE, but we *HATED* the old Catholic edition. My vote is for Warriner's. It's solid, easy-to-use, and while it's not as "fun" as something like MCT it's IMHO *FAR* more engaging than VIE or what I've seen of R&S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onaclairadeluna Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 The Warriner's I used in junior high looked like this (except it was the First and Second Courses for 7th & 8th grades); diagramming was included. HTH! :iagree: Warriner's is great. I don't have a new edition so I don't know the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Roller Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 What about Growing With Grammar? I don't know about the higher levels, but we are using Levels 3, 4, and 5 this year after using R&S last year. I would say that it is comparable to R&S, and it is written to the student. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 Are you sure you don't just want R&S. ;) For what it's worth... Peace, Janice Yes, the more I look at stuff, the more I want to use R&S. The problem is, this is for an adult ESL student. R&S is perfect from the standpoint of correcting usage errors in non-native speakers (which is of course what the amish are). I found a copy of Warriners from the library and looked it over. The usage sections are issues more common to certain dialects or regions or levels of education of americans. They aren't really the problems a non-native speaker has. So yes, R&S is much better in that sense. I'm just concerned that it's not secular and that it's filled with crappy writing and stories of obtuse stuff. I might literally have to rewrite all the lessons with new sentences, ugh. Stewart English looks phenomenal for the writing quality and the way it's set up. I just don't know if it covers usage enough. If I were more brilliant I'd know about ESL grammar texts. As is, I don't. I've been out of the loop too long, lol. I found a few on amazon and one through the library, but I don't think any of them are going to be as thorough as just plain using a R&S or other good, solid text. I looked up Voyages last night. The writing quality of the online exercises for the 7th and 8th grade texts was atrocious, not something I could use with her at all. The sentences need to be of a high enough quality that she could memorize them as examples of correct speech and use them to pattern her own. I'll look at the rest of the links, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I don't know anything about ESL, but here's a website that lists recommendations from ESL teachers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 17, 2011 Author Share Posted September 17, 2011 Thanks Crimson, I scanned through the options at your link, and I think I've found something that will be PERFECT! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisley Hedgehog Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 The pages are really cheap pulp which turned me off... We used Hake back several years ago and the pages were of good quality paper--appropriate for a nonconsumable text. I just received a new copy the other day and was horrified at the quality of the paper. If they're going to turn it into a consumable book (which it is as that sort of paper ages very quickly) they should turn it into a real workbook. Better would be to use the same paper that the Saxon Math homeschool books are printed on. I am so disgusted that I am going to write a letter to the publisher. But other than that, it is a good program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 17, 2011 Author Share Posted September 17, 2011 Shari, that's VERY interesting! It's not what I need for ESL, but it's still very interesting. Thanks! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 17, 2011 Author Share Posted September 17, 2011 (edited) Hmm, Hake looks like a logical follow-up to Shurley. Do the lessons weave together writing and grammar, or do they alternate? I was confused by the toc and the sample chapters. There's also a student worktext btw. Is that what has the crummy paper, or is it the student text? Whew, I take that back. The tm has an insane amount of review, wowsers. Edited September 17, 2011 by OhElizabeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 (edited) For an adult ESL student, you need something totally different. Grammar books for middle schoolers will have more difficult vocabulary and will address common writing problems for native English speakers. ESL books will address different problems... such as "when should I use 'will' and when should I use 'going to'?" or "When do I use 'the' and when 'a' and when no article?" or "How do I know when to use present perfect and when to use simple past." I prefer Murphy's English Grammar in use, which is especially good for self-study or working with a tutor. Another good grammar book is Azar's English Grammar. The red book is beginner, black is intermediate and blue is the advanced version. I find it's best with a class or at least a partner, but can be done on your own. Let me know if you have any other questions... I think I've used just about every ESL book out there at one time or another. Edited September 17, 2011 by Momling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Oh -- and for more of a composition focus, I really like Ann Hogue's "First Steps in Academic Writing". It does have also include skills work in writing mechanics and sentence construction and grammar, though it doesn't work on the trickiest parts of English grammar like verb tense or articles or phrasal verbs or question formation, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 17, 2011 Author Share Posted September 17, 2011 Thanks Momling!!! I wrote you back privately to gab more. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janice in NJ Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I had no idea you were looking for ESL materials. Sorry, no experience; nothing to say on that one. Peace, Janice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 Well I wasn't exclusively, which is why I didn't mention it. R&S actually is pretty close to what I want, except for those chickens. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I have an old Warriner's and another I picked up from a library sale that seems to be a 7th grade book, called Words and Ideas, part of the Macmillan English Series (1960 ed). (It has a big 7 on the cover, and the level could be junior high level, I suppose.) Authors listed are Thomas Clark Pollock and Robert W. Rounds. I typed out the table of contents in this post (but misspelled Pollock's name in that post). I am a fan of the old grammar texts but not sure how easy it is to find them on demand in a thrift store. I just come across these things sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 We use Easy Grammar. You might want to look at both the 6th and 7th grade books to see what you need as they are slightly different. I wouldn't worry about the 6th grade label if it suits your needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 Thanks ladies! I'm hoping what I've found at this point will work! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Sorry, I missed the ESL angle. Have you looked at any grammar for ESL students? My library has some that sound promising inc a few each by both Edward Swick and by Betty Schrampfer Azar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 Yup, I'm working on getting Azar and some others from the library. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.