s/o For those who hate co-ops - another question

[Sarah CB]

It sounds like most of you hate having someone else's system imposed on you. I agree.

 

However, when you get down to what a co-op actually is, it's just two or more families getting together for group learning opportunities.

 

Why don't you start your own co-op? There are some things that are a little more rewarding in a group. For example, we did TOG for four years as a family and I sat with eldest dd and had Socratic discussions with her. Socratic discussions between two people are not nearly as dynamic and interesting as when there are a few more people involved. Our co-op is doing TOG this year and we're having two dialectic discussion groups. I'm so excited that my eldes boy will have the opportunity to be involved in group discussions instead of sitting there with just me. The parents are rotating the "discussion leader" role so I'll still have the opportunity to be involved (and all parents will be able to take part weekly, they'll all be present and can take part in the discussion).

 

Plus, all those hands on activities might actually be done! We're having a hands-on class in addition to the discussion. My boys have way more fun when they're doing these kinds of projects with their friends. We'll have whole families (parents, little kids, older kids) in this class and I think it's going to be a blast.

 

We've also decided to use Writing Aids so that our writing class is TOG integrated as well. Being in a class for writing last year turned my eldest boy from strongly disliking writing to loving it and saying that he might like to be an author. You know what he needed? An audience of his peers! As soon as he realized that he could get people interested in his stories he really took off and couldn't wait to share the next one with his friends.

 

Oh, and French. I don't think I need to say more. It's the one class that we actually hire someone to teach. The rest are taught by parents who are passionate about the kids and their subject areas.

 

We started this co-op ourselves. We started it with certain goals and it's been an incredible experience for the kids and for the parents. This year we'll have 56 kids with classes from Kindergarten to grade 8. Definitely worth our time and it actually cuts down on some of what I have to teach for the remainder of the week.

[SonshineLearner]

I'd love an email about your co-op :) We read a lot about different ones and really tried to integrate ideas and make it a co-op that will be academically beneficial. (as well as socially :))

[Ellie]

I don't hate co-ops. I just don't think they're all that important. I think being home as much as possible so that *I* can actually teach my dc is the point of homeschooling. If I wanted my dc to spend time in age-segregated classrooms being taught by other people, I'd send 'em to school.

[Sarah CB]

If I wanted my dc to spend time in age-segregated classrooms being taught by other people, I'd send 'em to school.

 

And if that's what co-ops were all about we wouldn't be part of one, either. But, it's not really like that - at least ours isn't. The ages are narrowed in some areas, but there are other topics that are explored with entire families learning together. Ours isn't really "classr-roomy" - it's hands-on, project and experiment based and puts a big emphasis on interaction and group learning. It doesn't look anything like a typical classroom and really doesn't look anything like a school, either.

 

It's more a case of families who are friends learning together. I really like my homeschooling friends. It's fun to spend the day together. And what's really fun is when we do our planning sessions and we all get excited about the cool things that learning in a group enables us to do. Plus, I love seeing my boys get excited about sharing their learning with friends - they work on projects together and that passion for learning is kind of neat to share with friends. Of course, the majority of our learning happens at home, but it's fun (and it's been beneficial in ways I couldn't duplicate at home) to get together with friends for things that make more sense to do with a small group.

 

Besides, I even find it rather rewarding. I am not a teacher, but I've really enjoyed working with the grade 7 and 8 girls. I had six of them last year and we had some fantastic literary analysis discussions. This year I'll be teaching them writing. It's totally different from teaching one child at a time at home - I really enjoy the interaction between the girls and the ideas that they come up with. I knew I liked writing and discussing literature, but I didn't realize I'd enjoy teaching it in this way this much.

[Sarah CB]

I'd love an email about your co-op :) We read a lot about different ones and really tried to integrate ideas and make it a co-op that will be academically beneficial. (as well as socially :))

 

I'd be more than happy to share :) I'm actually getting paid for helping people start up co-ops in different areas of my province this year. Much fun! I love talking to people about co-ops and I'm always amazed at how different co-ops can be...everything from two families meeting together to do science experiments to huge co-ops with hired teachers.

[ktgrok]

eh, honestly, maybe I'm lazy but that sounds like too much work for me, and it would cut into our time too much. We do meet once a week with a group just for socializing, and go on field trips every month, and will be putting together a year book. I am spearheading all of this. I want the group atmosphere for fun, not learning. We MIGHT do some learning stuff or projects together to go along with our field trips, but otherwise we will stick with trips and park days for now.

[edelweiss]

eh, honestly, maybe I'm lazy but that sounds like too much work for me, and it would cut into our time too much. We do meet once a week with a group just for socializing, and go on field trips every month, and will be putting together a year book. I am spearheading all of this. I want the group atmosphere for fun, not learning. We MIGHT do some learning stuff or projects together to go along with our field trips, but otherwise we will stick with trips and park days for now.

 

 

I guess I'm lazy too because that sounds like way too much work for me. Besides, while I adore teaching my own children, I have no desire to teach anyone else's. :blush:

[shanvan]

It sounds like most of you hate having someone else's system imposed on you. I agree.

 

However, when you get down to what a co-op actually is, it's just two or more families getting together for group learning opportunities.

 

It can be this sometimes, but generally when people talk about a co-op they mean a group of many, many families meeting at least once a week with many class offerings.

 

Why don't you start your own co-op?

 

Short answer: Co-ops just aren't for everyone no matter how well run they are. Just like some very well written high quality curriculum doesn't work for some.

 

Long answers here and below: Many of us simply don't have the time. No matter how many families are involved it will take time to iron out what the purpose and goals of the co-op are and what the structure and rules will be, where you will meet, who is responsible for what . Icck! I've been there, done that, and never want to do it again.

 

There are some things that are a little more rewarding in a group. For example, we did TOG for four years as a family and I sat with eldest dd and had Socratic discussions with her. Socratic discussions between two people are not nearly as dynamic and interesting as when there are a few more people involved. Our co-op is doing TOG this year and we're having two dialectic discussion groups. I'm so excited that my eldes boy will have the opportunity to be involved in group discussions instead of sitting there with just me. The parents are rotating the "discussion leader" role so I'll still have the opportunity to be involved (and all parents will be able to take part weekly, they'll all be present and can take part in the discussion).

 

I agree that this can be true depending on your situation and families you know. I know who is available around us. A co-op with families in our area will just never equal the education I can give my children at home. Even with TOG I would want to be the one having the discussions with my children. No other person is going to provide the same interaction I can. It gives me and my children an opportunity to discuss how our family views the material studied. Another mom or dad just can't do that.

 

Plus, all those hands on activities might actually be done! We're having a hands-on class in addition to the discussion. My boys have way more fun when they're doing these kinds of projects with their friends. We'll have whole families (parents, little kids, older kids) in this class and I think it's going to be a blast.

 

It's nice if some families find a co-op useful for this purpose. We do enough hands on activities at home and don't find it necessary to take time to drive somewhere to do them. They work with friends for 4h, so again, we have those needs met and I don't have to take time to drive to co-op or sign up to teach.

 

We've also decided to use Writing Aids so that our writing class is TOG integrated as well. Being in a class for writing last year turned my eldest boy from strongly disliking writing to loving it and saying that he might like to be an author. You know what he needed? An audience of his peers! As soon as he realized that he could get people interested in his stories he really took off and couldn't wait to share the next one with his friends.

 

It's great that you found the class helpful. Again, though this can be done at home. We get all of this from the two 4H clubs we are involved in. The writing classes I signed my son up for did not turn out well for us. Once a week was not enough time for the teacher to actually teach what she wanted done for assignments, so I found I had to teach Ds quite a bit and I did not agree with the level of her assignments. It just created double work for me since I had to teach her material plus the material I wanted done for the year (which the class was advertised as teaching).

 

Oh, and French. I don't think I need to say more. It's the one class that we actually hire someone to teach. The rest are taught by parents who are passionate about the kids and their subject areas.

 

We started this co-op ourselves. We started it with certain goals and it's been an incredible experience for the kids and for the parents. This year we'll have 56 kids with classes from Kindergarten to grade 8. Definitely worth our time and it actually cuts down on some of what I have to teach for the remainder of the week.

 

During my 4 years involved with co-op it never cut down on my teaching time at home. It added unnecessary burdens that actually took time away from my teaching -- time my own children could have enjoyed with me.

 

You must have a group of very like minded individuals. It sounds like it works very well for you. Where we are there really is no co-op or class option I think is worth the time for us. I was one of the leaders for the co-op we previously attended and the headaches I got from all the e mails, disagreements on educational philosophy, lack of academic standards in many of the classrooms, disciple issues and irresponsible behavior on the part of the parents are very fresh in my mind. Those memories keep me from even thinking of starting my own!

 

There are some families whose company we enjoy for occasional field trips and get togethers, but we are all so creative we want the freedom to follow our own plans and not be tied to a co-op.

 

Even among those I know who use TOG I wouldn't dream of starting a co-op. We don't have the same ideas of discipline or similar enough standards to make a co-op work. I like these families as friends, but I know I'd feel differently if we met for a co-op.

 

My long winded answer to your question!

 

Shannon

 

Anyway what Ellie wrote really resonates with me more and more each year. "I think being home as much as possible so that *I* can actually teach my dc is the point of homeschooling."

[Ellie]

It's also the leaving-the-house thing that I would not be interested in. Every time I leave the house to go do things with other people on a regular basis during the day, it's sucking time out of what I have planned to do with my own children.

[SonshineLearner]

You know, I guess it really depends on why you homeschool and how that works out for your family. I homeschool because I don't want my child in public or private school full-time. I need to be able to help make good decisions with regard to his time spent. For us, a class for one day is different than a class 5 days a week. I don't homeschool because I "can't let go" and let others teach him. I homeschool because I can't see him doing well in a traditional school. I am more than happy to have "community input" for his education, just not input that I have no say about. I'm telling ya, writing, biology and higher mathematics are gonna be with someone else.

[Tess in the Burbs]

I did :-)

 

I started a PE group as well as a co-op with other families. We picked topics and share duties. Wasn't hard at all. Church gave us a room no problem.

[Geo]

You know, I guess it really depends on why you homeschool and how that works out for your family. I homeschool because I don't want my child in public or private school full-time. I need to be able to help make good decisions with regard to his time spent. For us, a class for one day is different than a class 5 days a week. I don't homeschool because I "can't let go" and let others teach him. I homeschool because I can't see him doing well in a traditional school. I am more than happy to have "community input" for his education, just not input that I have no say about. I'm telling ya, writing, biology and higher mathematics are gonna be with someone else.

 

 

:iagree:

Ultimately, it has to be about what is best for them, not us.

[zenjenn]

Almost everyone I know is already involved in a Christian co-op, and as a non-Christian, I'm not really interested. Non-Christian families I know that homeschool are just studying drastically different topics than we are and I just think it would be too much effort to bother.

 

I am very happy with the homeschool classes and programs my kids attend (P.E., science labs, Robotics team), and find it less intrusive to my own learning plans. Plus, I am happy with our other extra-curriculars such as ballet, gymnastics, and Girl Scouts. Our schedules are filled to the brim and I see no reason to go out of my way to add something of questionable worth.

 

This isn't to say I've ruled it out for the future. If the right opportunity came along, we'd certainly consider it.

[SonshineLearner]

So, I know someone in Salem, OR trying to start a secular co-op. If anyone around here happens to read this and you're interested, pls pm me ;)

[ChandlerMom]

I don't hate co-ops. I just don't think they're all that important. I think being home as much as possible so that *I* can actually teach my dc is the point of homeschooling. If I wanted my dc to spend time in age-segregated classrooms being taught by other people, I'd send 'em to school.

 

:iagree: Completely agree. I hs to provide the education, not to have someone else choose and teach what they want. THat's just enrolling them in school, albeit PT.

 

Most (large; organized) co-ops seem to me to reek of profiteering or pyramid schemes. The only kind of co-op I'd consider would be a small group of people trading expertise, so cost should be free or cost of materials. Otherwise it is just a money-making scheme to profit off homeschoolers (and usually just the admin profit), usually preying on the insecurities of homeschoolers. I'm not against businesses providing a service for a reasonable fee, but imo that's not what a co-op is supposed to be.

Edited August 21, 2011 by ChandlerMom

[Crimson Wife]

Almost everyone I know is already involved in a Christian co-op, and as a non-Christian, I'm not really interested. Non-Christian families I know that homeschool are just studying drastically different topics than we are and I just think it would be too much effort to bother.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: Except put the qualifier "Protestant" before Christian. I am a Christian, just not one who can sign a Protestant SOF. Write a SOF that is based on the Nicene Creed, and I will gladly sign. Start including specific number of Bible books or the 5 solas or other wording designed to exclude my denomination and I'm going to pass.

[lincap]

I ran a small to medium sized group for 3 years. Finding like minded families is key. I got worn out as Director listening to the constant bickering about EVERY LITTLE THING. It is too academic. It is not academic enough. It is too this.. it is not enough that... on and on. This year the group will be tiny, 2-3 families, without a Handbook and "rules" .

 

I think coops and groups can work if you find one that meets your family's needs. But other than that, they are a waste of time, energy and resources.

[regentrude]

However, when you get down to what a co-op actually is, it's just two or more families getting together for group learning opportunities.

 

Why don't you start your own co-op?

 

Because I have not met any other homeschooling families with the same educational goals.

 

I would be very happy if I could do some things in a coop- chemistry and biology labs are something where I would love to have somebody with true expertise, and I would be happy to offer my physics and math expertise in exchange. Or French - foreign languages lend themselves to conversation groups.

I do NOT believe that I can teach everything perfectly; having my kids do some work with actual experts in certain fields would greatly benefit their education - in that respect, I do not quite understand the "I homeschool because I want to teach every single thing myself" attitude. I am not kidding myself - there ARE people who can teach biology or French better than I can.

Alas, I do not know anybody IRL who would be interested in a rigorous high school or college level science lab, or French.

I do not need a coop for fluff.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[Jenny in Florida]

It sounds like most of you hate having someone else's system imposed on you. I agree.

 

For me, it's not even that so much as just not finding someone else's system that works for us.

 

Why don't you start your own co-op?

 

I tried. It turned out that there were not enough families with whom we were compatible educationally and religously/socially to maintain a schedule of activities. We are fairly rigorous homeschoolers who are not conservative Christians (or Christians at all). In our area, there are plenty of well organized co-ops that have religous underpinnings and a few homeschool groups that are liberal/secular but not especially organized. I had hoped there was room in the center for one that would work for us, but after a lot of wasted time and heartbreak, it turned out there wasn't.

 

There are some things that are a little more rewarding in a group. For example, we did TOG for four years as a family and I sat with eldest dd and had Socratic discussions with her. Socratic discussions between two people are not nearly as dynamic and interesting as when there are a few more people involved. Our co-op is doing TOG this year and we're having two dialectic discussion groups. I'm so excited that my eldes boy will have the opportunity to be involved in group discussions instead of sitting there with just me.

 

I suspect the amount of reward depends a lot on the group and on your student. I happen to have very bright kids who don't get a lot out of spending time or "doing school" with most kids who are their age peers. But they don't necessarily fit in socially with older kids who are their intellectual peers. We've tried an assortment of outside groups and classes for each of them over the years and found most of them not worth the trouble and/or expense.

 

Plus, all those hands on activities might actually be done! We're having a hands-on class in addition to the discussion. My boys have way more fun when they're doing these kinds of projects with their friends. We'll have whole families (parents, little kids, older kids) in this class and I think it's going to be a blast.

 

See my comments above about my kids not fitting well in group situations. When we've tried these kinds of classes in the past, it quickly became clear that my kids take the projects and assignments much, much more seriously than the other students. They would work very hard and turn out good results, only to show up and have the other students not have done the work at all or throw something together at the last minute. My kids found it frustrating, and I disliked the fact that I felt it encouraged sloppy work.

 

We're pretty happy doing the hands-on stuff at home.

 

We've also decided to use Writing Aids so that our writing class is TOG integrated as well. Being in a class for writing last year turned my eldest boy from strongly disliking writing to loving it and saying that he might like to be an author. You know what he needed? An audience of his peers!

 

See my comments above about my kids doing more and better work than their classmates. Plus, my background is in English. So, I can handle that kind of instruction at home, and my standards are usually higher than other instructors'. Last year, when he was 7th grade by age, my son took the honors track of the 8th grade Language Arts class through FLVS. He earned a very high 'A,' but I was embarrased to put samples of his work in his portfolio, because I would never have allowed him to get away with some of those errors. We've vowed never to have him take English outside home again until college.

 

Oh, and French. I don't think I need to say more. It's the one class that we actually hire someone to teach. The rest are taught by parents who are passionate about the kids and their subject areas.

 

Our experience with most homeschoolers is that I would not turn over an important core subject to that kind of group. Every group in which we've been involved over the years has simply been too flaky (classes cancelled, rowdy behavior in class preventing anything significant from actually happening, parents quitting mid-way through the year because they or their children lose interest, etc.). If there is a subject I can't teach, we outsource it to a formal, professional organization.

 

We started this co-op ourselves. We started it with certain goals and it's been an incredible experience for the kids and for the parents. This year we'll have 56 kids with classes from Kindergarten to grade 8. Definitely worth our time and it actually cuts down on some of what I have to teach for the remainder of the week.

 

I'm glad it works for you. I'm always a little envious when people here talk so lovingly about their co-ops. It just doesn't seem to be in the cards for us.

 

With that said, my son is going to try out a FIRST Lego team with a local co-op this year. I did some checking and found they have a fairly good record of actually getting through competitions and doing reasonably well. I think it will be a good experience for him, but it's mostly for fun. If it falls through or doesn't work for him, it won't leave a hole in his academic schedule.

 

Other than that, he's very busy with non-homeschool-specific activities. He dances several classes a week, sings with a choir, takes private voice lessons, participates in our church youth group and volunteers at our church, and he does a lot of theatre (both youth theatre with other kids and community and semi-professional shows with mixed-age casts). This year, if all goes well, he'll also volunteer one day a week at our local science museum. Honestly, I'm a little concerned about how he'll keep up with his academics at home, given how much time he spends out in the community. So, the very last thing we need is to sign him up for something else that would get in the way of schoolwork when we have every reason to believe it won't be a good experience for any of us.

Edited August 21, 2011 by Jenny in Florida

[8filltheheart]

Because I have not met any other homeschooling families with the same educational goals.

 

I would be very happy if I could do some things in a coop- chemistry and biology labs are something where I would love to have somebody with true expertise, and I would be happy to offer my physics and math expertise in exchange. Or French - foreign languages lend themselves to conversation groups.

I do NOT believe that I can teach everything perfectly; having my kids do some work with actual experts in certain fields would greatly benefit their education - in that respect, I do not quite understand the "I homeschool because I want to teach every single thing myself" attitude. I am not kidding myself - there ARE people who can teach biology or French better than I can.

Alas, I do not know anybody IRL who would be interested in a rigorous high school or college level science lab, or French.

I do not need a coop for fluff.

 

 

I agree with you. However, I have never encountered a co-op where not only the teacher was an expert, but my students and the other students went into the class with the same skill set and expecting the same out of it.

 

I have found that going with a private tutor is a better option. I am hoping that PAH AP classes are also going to meet our needs since they have such wonderful reviews.

 

(when I say that I have only met a few people with similar academic values, I do mean it. In 18 yrs, I have met around 5 in 4 different cities. At the high school level, the split becomes more dramatic. I only know 2 other families that have similar approaches to high school that we do. ETA: Ironically, it does change at the different ages. Many focus far more on workbook/textbook stuff in the younger yrs and we are way more relaxed. Then, as the kids get older, we become far more intense and focused and they tend to become more relaxed. Different strokes for different folks. But, it does mean that co-ops are not a realistic option for us.)

Edited August 21, 2011 by 8FillTheHeart