Dyslexia

[brown_academy]

Where do I go to have a child tested for dyslexia?

I did not want it to be, but I think it is!

My youngest is 8 and whenever we start back in to school work he write numbers and letters backwards

he wrote a 4 backwards yesterday and wrote 21 for 12

I think he is past the age of that, "just happening" -Am I right, or am I wrong?

He also seems to hear things differently than other people like yesterday we were saying deaf and he thought we were saying death-is this just normal am I over reacting on this?

Sorry, I am just feeling a bit discombobulated at the moment and I hate to just jump up and say we have an issue if we don't!

Any advice, tips!

He also says things a bit funny-like yesterday he said. "I don't matter what color a bike is." What he meant was-It doesn't matter to me what color the bike is or I don't care what color the bike is-but he mixed the two and it came out odd-can you help direct me-somebody?

He is very large for his age-he is only 2 inches shorter than his 12 year old brother and about 4 lbs less!

I have read where some kids grow so fast it takes so much out of them, that they struggle to learn?? Any thoughts, he is extremely social, well liked (loved) he is goofy and quite the cut up! He is an extremely joyful person to be around, love playing street hockey, and ice hockey and bmx! So really by just looking at him, you would not notice anything different, but there are just these little things that make me wonder if his input is wired a bit different!!

Thoughts, advice?

Thanks in advance

Nicole Brown

Edited August 18, 2011 by brown_academy

[EKS]

I would see if he has other symptoms on this list before concluding that he has dyslexia. Also, the book The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide is very helpful for sorting out what various symptoms might mean.

[brown_academy]

Thanks I will check it out!

I guess I am going with what the school said 2 years ago when I pulled him out!

Where can I take him for testing-a neurologist or is there another type of specialist?

Nicole Brown

[LaughingCat]

I have read that reversing lettters and reading/writing words backwards can happen "normally" all the way through 2nd grade/age 7.

 

At the same time I sure wish I had started investigating things a lot earlier instead of listening to people who said "oh that's normal for some kids" :001_unsure: (ETA: I see I misread your child's age! so it wouldn't be early after all if you started investigating now)

 

I agree that The Mislabeled Child might be a good book in this case. The book is mislabeled :lol: IMO because the name implies that it's only useful if child is ALREADY labeled. I have found it a bit of a slog to get through.

 

Also a lot of the things we're doing for DD1 would have been fine to do even if she had no problems, and may help any kid get a "step up" although not to the same extent - but then as someone said on another thread it's obvious for a lot of these exercises when they can speed through something and when you've found something they're struggling with. I plan on doing some with DD2 (at a younger age) just as "part of school".

Edited August 18, 2011 by LaughingCat2

[brown_academy]

So what type of things were you seeing with your dd

I am just hearbroken for him-he struggles but he tries and I want to do the right thing here-being HOME is def a HUGE step not NEAR the pressure but if I can figure out how to make things a bit easier that would def help!

[Dobela]

There are a number of things that could be adding to his difficulties. IF the hearing is an issue, I would begin with a thorough hearing test, not just a screening. I would schedule an appointment with a COVD to make sure his eyes are working with his brain (www.covd.org is a good place to start for that). I would talk to his pediatrician and ask for referrals to an OT and possibly a speech therapist to make certain that deficits in fine motor skills are not causing the handwriting problem or that he doesn't have a receptive or expressive language disorder. Central Auditory Processing Disorder has some over lap with the language and hearing issues.

[Lyrical]

I would see if he has other symptoms on this list before concluding that he has dyslexia. Also, the book The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide is very helpful for sorting out what various symptoms might mean.

:iagree:

I'd totally agree to check the warning signs at Susan Barton's website, looking at all the warning signs, not just directionality.

 

It is considered a warning sign for dyselxia, when letter and number reversals still occur after 2 years of language instruction. Word retrieval issues are another warning sign, such as what you're describing in your child using the wrong word. There is an aspect of auditory processing difficulty in dyslexia, that's why when diagnosing dyslexia a tester will ask about other symptoms such as trouble tying shoes and telling left from right. Directionality difficulties will have nothing to do with CAPD and everything to do with dyslexia.

 

Susan Barton will give you a list of her certified testers if you email and ask, but you can also find a good neuropsych to do this.

[MerryAtHope]

It sounds like there could be several things going on, hard to say. If your insurance covers a neuro-psych exam, I'd probably go for that. Also, I don't recall if anyone suggested www.covd.org, but if not I'd look at that site too. But I just wanted to encourage you...it can seem so devastating to consider whether one of our kids has a learning disability, so overwhelming. It's truly not the end of the world, and there are so many things you can do to help him progress. Kids with dyslexia also are often gifted in other ways, and there are some great methods that can really help them to overcome some of their difficulties. It's not an easy road, but there's lots of hope, hang in there! Merry :-)

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[EKS]

The AAP doesn't recomend any vision assessment at all in the dx of dyslexia bc dyslexia isnt a vision issue but instead is a brain issue. I am bothered by the continued insistance of a few people on this board that COVD is the way to go every time dyslexia comes up.

 

 

Vision issues can mimic certain symptoms of dyslexia and frequently coexist with dyslexia making things worse.

 

Even Brock and Fernette Eide, who are well-regarded experts in the field of dyslexia and learning disabilities, are on board with getting vision checked and dealt with if necessary.

 

A truly dyslexic child will still be dyslexic after vision therapy but that child will no longer have to deal with having vision problems on top of the dyslexia.

[PeterPan]

There are actually 3 strains of thought on VT I see flying around:

1) My kid had eye problems and benefited from the VT. These people aren't saying it cures dyslexia or is for dyslexia. Actually, more often than not the kids benefiting from the VT turn out to have tone or other issues. So you see this total picture and just recommend eliminating it as an issue.

2) People who got the VT eval, found their kid didn't need it, but are glad it worked for other people and wish (hang it all) it could have helped them. Or they wish it hadn't cost so much to get told it wasn't going to help them. Or they wish the doc they used hadn't been a scumbucket and recommended VT without solid, physical evidence of needing it.

3) People who have latched onto the idea that VT is quackery. Everyone can have their opinion, but this one flies totally in the face of the people who have gotten incredible changes from the VISION problems. But you know, variety is the spice of life.

 

My kid was dyslexic before and is dyslexic still. VT has nothing to do with dyslexia. It just happens that kids who have the genes that are resulting in all these problems (low tone, etc. etc.) will sometimes have a mix that results in it affecting their eyes. Just straightforward, physical eye problems (convergence, etc.). It's not voodoo, and it's NOT a treatment for dyslexia. That's why some kids need it and some don't.

 

I know that when I first started approaching the vision issue with dd, I remembered the comments I had read on the board ages earlier about VT and developmental optometrist exams. It had gone into my general pool of knowledge as having been something that helped some people. It made the transition easier when our time came to get the eval. The bummer is, no one told me years earlier, when it was OBVIOUS to people who had btdt. Maybe they got scared into silence by the "VT is quackery and controversial" crowd? I talked with an optometrist mom who now homeschools, and she IMMEDIATELY knew dd was going to need VT for what I was describing. Do I wish someone, a veteran who had btdt, had come on the K-8 boards, when I was describing the problems we've had over the years and talking about them, and TOLD me, suggested to me that MAYBE some evals would be wise? I mean just as things to eliminate??? Do you THINK that maybe it's reasonable for a person to go get an eye exam? Just a plain old normal eye exam where they just happen to screen for these extra issues? Costs nothing extra, but it gets done if you go to the better eye doc. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

Now if somebody hates VT or wants to proclaim things quackery (these people always exist, and I've done it myself about other issues), then that's their business. But I THINK we've been adjusting how we discuss things over the last little bit. At this point NO ONE is saying the dev. optometrist exam is for dyslexia. It's for vision problems. Some kids have 'em, some kids don't. I don't know, that seems pretty simple and reasonable to me.

 

Shari, I hope you'll keep posting your "my kid didn't need it even though everyone else's did" comments, just as much as we post ours about how our kid did. People need to hear ALL the voices. :)

[Dobela]

There are actually 3 strains of thought on VT I see flying around:

1) My kid had eye problems and benefited from the VT. These people aren't saying it cures dyslexia or is for dyslexia. Actually, more often than not the kids benefiting from the VT turn out to have tone or other issues. So you see this total picture and just recommend eliminating it as an issue.

2) People who got the VT eval, found their kid didn't need it, but are glad it worked for other people and wish (hang it all) it could have helped them. Or they wish it hadn't cost so much to get told it wasn't going to help them. Or they wish the doc they used hadn't been a scumbucket and recommended VT without solid, physical evidence of needing it.

3) People who have latched onto the idea that VT is quackery. Everyone can have their opinion, but this one flies totally in the face of the people who have gotten incredible changes from the VISION problems. But you know, variety is the spice of life.

 

My kid was dyslexic before and is dyslexic still. VT has nothing to do with dyslexia. It just happens that kids who have the genes that are resulting in all these problems (low tone, etc. etc.) will sometimes have a mix that results in it affecting their eyes. Just straightforward, physical eye problems (convergence, etc.). It's not voodoo, and it's NOT a treatment for dyslexia. That's why some kids need it and some don't.

 

I know that when I first started approaching the vision issue with dd, I remembered the comments I had read on the board ages earlier about VT and developmental optometrist exams. It had gone into my general pool of knowledge as having been something that helped some people. It made the transition easier when our time came to get the eval. The bummer is, no one told me years earlier, when it was OBVIOUS to people who had btdt. Maybe they got scared into silence by the "VT is quackery and controversial" crowd? I talked with an optometrist mom who now homeschools, and she IMMEDIATELY knew dd was going to need VT for what I was describing. Do I wish someone, a veteran who had btdt, had come on the K-8 boards, when I was describing the problems we've had over the years and talking about them, and TOLD me, suggested to me that MAYBE some evals would be wise? I mean just as things to eliminate??? Do you THINK that maybe it's reasonable for a person to go get an eye exam? Just a plain old normal eye exam where they just happen to screen for these extra issues? Costs nothing extra, but it gets done if you go to the better eye doc. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

Now if somebody hates VT or wants to proclaim things quackery (these people always exist, and I've done it myself about other issues), then that's their business. But I THINK we've been adjusting how we discuss things over the last little bit. At this point NO ONE is saying the dev. optometrist exam is for dyslexia. It's for vision problems. Some kids have 'em, some kids don't. I don't know, that seems pretty simple and reasonable to me.

 

Shari, I hope you'll keep posting your "my kid didn't need it even though everyone else's did" comments, just as much as we post ours about how our kid did. People need to hear ALL the voices. :)

:iagree: I always mention VT because it made a dramatic difference in our son. So much so that his diagnois of dyslexia was removed after we finished. Did VT cure him?? No, absolutely not. Are we an anomoly? Possibly. VT did however correct vision problems that were preventing him from moving forward educationally. He is still a struggling learner. If I had completely written off VT my son would still be struggling even more and be even further behind than he is. VT for us has been an important part of the whole picture including an ed psych eval, occupational therapy, and specialized tutors and curriculums. I am so thankful for the person on this board who pointed me to covd.org 3 years ago.

 

 

 

Our dd though has vision problems and does not qualify for VT. Even if she did, with her particular vision problems I don't know that she would experience much change.

 

If you look in optometry research publications, you will find scientific support for VTm and that evidence is growing.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[PeterPan]

Well I will say this. In our area I was quoted $2500 for a neuropsych eval. They had no experience with gifted and seemed to be more pushing the ADD and meds side of thing than anything. I've been looking and looking and haven't found a neuropsych I felt confident in. Personally, I think that it's wise just to start *somewhere*. Our VT doc referred us for OT, and the OT told us to get the neuropsych eval. So if people at least jump in SOMEWHERE, with whatever seems most pressing or wise to them at the time, they're making a start. We *had* to start with VT, because my dd was having incapacitating headaches at the time.

 

Personally, I find myself in an odd position encouraging people to get neuropsych or ed psych evals when I haven't done one. I want to say it, and then I always stop and wonder what they'll think when they figure out *I* haven't. ;) Not that I don't want to, but it hasn't worked out yet. And I can't bring myself to pay almost $3K to someone who is going to take my money and not give me the help I need. None of the ones I've called yet have inspired my confidence. I don't like that you had a bad experience with your COVD doc, and I don't want to have one (at that hefty pricetag!) with the neuropsych.

 

If you think the biggest need is for people to find an ed psych first, then PLEASE be in these threads saying that! I think people NEED to hear that voice.

[LaughingCat]

While it's true that dyslexia is not a vision issue -- at the same time someone coming to an internet forum and saying "my child is showing <these> signs of dyslexia" is NOT the same as a dyslexia diagnosis.

 

For myself, perhaps if my pediatrician had been more helpful in pointing to me to someone who could DIAGNOSE dyslexia, we would currently be going a different direction altogether. Instead she pointed me to "The Learning Center" :glare:

 

However since, as far as I can tell, the end result of a "medical" dyslexia diagnosis gives no actual medical resolution or even medical suggestions I don't really understand why some dyslexia proponents are so deep set against VT anyway. How is "go do reading/phonics practice preferably using an OG method" so different from "go practice eye tracking" or ""go do eye focus practice" anyway? They each just focus on 1 particular component. It's only logical that not every child would need every component

 

For my DD1 - during the VT exam (which I struggled mentally for months before deciding on- because of all the quackery comments) DD read a line of numbers, no phonics involved - and sounded EXACTLY like she did when reading words - all long pauses, skipping and stuttering (repetition of previously read). It was a real eye opener for me: all those long pauses weren't her struggling to remember the phonics after all -- instead she was struggling to re-find her place so she could continue.

 

After 2 months of VT this has essentially gone away (unless she's tired/stressed and her stamina is still only about a page's worth). Of course it has done nothing for her phonics abilities - but why would anyone logically expect it to? It helped with what I expected it to help with - her ability to move her eyes such that they can physically track the words across the page.

 

Lastly, to the OP, based on what you wrote, I would not actually suggest VT as your first step nor necessarily pursuing a dyslexia diagnosis either. Although you mention directionality issues, the more concerning factor seems to be auditory (and not matching auditory issues as I've seen them listed on dyslexia sites either). I can't see recommending a super expensive neuropsych eval when you're not even sure there's a problem either. That's why I would suggest the Mislabeled Child FIRST - so that it might help you see if any other factors seem to fit etc., give you an overview of many different areas etc

[PeterPan]

For my DD1 - during the VT exam (which I struggled mentally for months before deciding on- because of all the quackery comments) DD read a line of numbers, no phonics involved - and sounded EXACTLY like she did when reading words - all long pauses, skipping and stuttering (repetition of previously read). It was a real eye opener for me: all those long pauses weren't her struggling to remember the phonics after all -- instead she was struggling to re-find her place so she could continue.

 

 

What a really amazing experience!

 

And you know, I think you're right that it's hard to say one person *has* to start here or has to start there, because the situations are so different. I've noticed a lot of variability here between the helpfulness of the ed psychs and neuropsychs too. It's not like going to one of them ASSURES you of getting helpful answers. I mean do we really have to dredge up the "I took my kid to three XYZs before they finally got the right diagnosis" threads. It's a journey. We all start somewhere and keep trying. And personally, I think it's people's responsibility to sort this out for themselves. It's not like some little pat checklist that you work through and at the end are assured terrific results.

 

Just to flip things, I also had the thought, once I got into this and started seeing where all of it led, that I wanted to treat all the things I knew were there and THEN go to the neuropsych, rather than having the neuropsych tell me the obvious things I already knew were issues.

[wapiti]

This may not be exactly analogous, but this is how I think of it: when a person has a speech issue, for example, one of the first things to rule out is hearing. When a person has a reading issue, why not rule out vision.

 

Many people are unaware of the types of possible vision problems beyond 20/20. Some of the symptoms of vision problems and dyslexia are the same, such as reversals (indeed, I might even wager that those are more likely to be vision issues). I only have experience with ed psychs ;), but both of those emphasized ruling out vision issues with a developmental optometrist. I feel guilty not providing a simple PSA about vision, especially considering that it's so simple and (relatively) inexpensive to rule out compared to a dyslexia diagnosis.

 

Just to flip things, I also had the thought, once I got into this and started seeing where all of it led, that I wanted to treat all the things I knew were there and THEN go to the neuropsych, rather than having the neuropsych tell me the obvious things I already knew were issues.

 

This is a good point. Vision problems can mess up IQ testing (which is costly). To me, it does make sense to rule out vision prior to the psych (whichever kind) appointment, and it's usually easy to squeeze in the vision appointment prior to the psych appointment (psychs usually schedule further out).

[Lyrical]

Susan Barton certifies dyslexia testers to do full evaluations that qualify a student for accommodations in a public school under a 504 plan. The fee for this service is usually far less than for a full psychoeducational evaluation. She also has a dyslexia screening protocol that she recently developed which should be available for just a few hundred dollars.

[PeterPan]

Susan Barton certifies dyslexia testers to do full evaluations that qualify a student for accommodations in a public school under a 504 plan. The fee for this service is usually far less than for a full psychoeducational evaluation. She also has a dyslexia screening protocol that she recently developed which should be available for just a few hundred dollars.

 

Ok, now here's a question I have about this (which may or may not have any interest to the op, sorry). It seems like, just from my watching the boards, that there are changing standards in diagnosis. It's almost like dyslexia, to the psychs, has become a functional, in the moment sort of thing, rather than looking at the deeper issues of how these kids process language, the bilaterality, etc.

 

We've had examples on the boards here of people (adults) who were diagnosed dyslexic as children, a diagnosis that carried them into adulthood with the accompanying accommodations, and then the label was changed to READING DISORDER. We've also had posts by people like Michele talking about the frustration that in a sense it almost looks like remediation removes the dyslexia diagnosis, even though the underlying tendencies and fundamental way they process info are still there.

 

We've also had people say that in their state the only way, at this time, given the new standards, to get a dyslexia diagnosis is to go for an MRI to show the bilaterality issues. That otherwise you get a "reading disorder" label.

 

So to me, doesn't that raise the question of where these Barton places fit in that? They might be able to get accommodations in some states, not others. They might be using terms in a way that aren't fitting the trend of the general psych community.

 

I don't know, just throwing all that out.

[Lyrical]

It seems like, just from my watching the boards, that there are changing standards in diagnosis. It's almost like dyslexia, to the psychs, has become a functional, in the moment sort of thing, rather than looking at the deeper issues of how these kids process language, the bilaterality, etc.

 

We've had examples on the boards here of people (adults) who were diagnosed dyslexic as children, a diagnosis that carried them into adulthood with the accompanying accommodations, and then the label was changed to READING DISORDER. We've also had posts by people like Michele talking about the frustration that in a sense it almost looks like remediation removes the dyslexia diagnosis, even though the underlying tendencies and fundamental way they process info are still there.

 

We've also had people say that in their state the only way, at this time, given the new standards, to get a dyslexia diagnosis is to go for an MRI to show the bilaterality issues. That otherwise you get a "reading disorder" label.

 

So to me, doesn't that raise the question of where these Barton places fit in that? They might be able to get accommodations in some states, not others. They might be using terms in a way that aren't fitting the trend of the general psych community.

 

The whole thing is super interesting ... and frustrating to those of us with kids with LDs. It seems as though the whole labeling of various LDs is constantly in flux actually. I think this reflects how little is really, clearly understood about these issues. The term "dyslexia" definitely does go in and out of fashion.

 

It is my understanding that the Barton testing which qualifies a dyslexic student for school accommodations under a 504 plan will work in any state due to qualifying under federal disability law. It is, however, not enough to get a student accommodations on the SATs or in college. For that, you'd need a psychoed evaluation, although many colleges do their own testing. It's also definitely true that once a person has good dyslexia tutoring, that really raises their phonological awareness, then it's much harder, if not impossible to diagnose dyslexia using Susan Barton's testing protocol.

 

FWIW Susan Barton based her testing protocol on the work of Yale researcher, Sally Shaywitz MD, author of "Overcoming Dyslexia." This book was published @2003, I think.

 

When I first had a student study team meeting for my son, who at the time was attending a public charter school, the special ed specialist, who was probably close to retirement, said she didn't like the word "dyslexia." I suggested she read Dr. Shaywitz's book. On the other hand, young teachers who were recent graduates, were fine with the term and with accommodation of a student with dyslexia. I am sure there are huge regional variances in the acceptance of this term.

 

For homeschoolers, I really think that by doing a little research into dyslexia (such as at the Barton site) a parent can decide for themselves if it looks like dyslexia is likely. Then, if money is an issue, they can skip testing and just be sure to use a reading/spelling program that is Orton-Gillingham based, like AAS, or Barton. These are good reading systems that will help anyone who is struggling with reading, assuming that their problem is not with comprehension. If, however, they think they might want K-12 school accommodations, they should get an evaluation first, before starting the O-G program.

[PeterPan]

I had never thought through the regional implications of these researcher and professor influences, but that makes sense! And you're right, at this point the only thing I care about is whether she warrants accommodations on testing, not the specific name.

 

Now I will say (just to bring up the point Shari made in another thread), that the VALUE of getting the full testing (not Barton but the ed/neuro-psych) is you have someone who would be looking for ALL the issues, not just one aspect or one symptom. The dyslexia label would be a symptom, but it's not necessarily a blanket explanation for EVERYTHING. You still have processing speed, working memory, all sorts of other stuff that the psychs would be looking at. And you even have people come on the boards occasionally who find out that their dc had a totally different cause than what they thought.

 

So to me, if the Barton testing isn't looking at ALL the facets of the student's issues, I'm not sure it's wise to use just that and skip the fuller ed/neuropsych, kwim? You wouldn't know what else you were missing.

[Lyrical]

Now I will say (just to bring up the point Shari made in another thread), that the VALUE of getting the full testing (not Barton but the ed/neuro-psych) is you have someone who would be looking for ALL the issues, not just one aspect or one symptom. The dyslexia label would be a symptom, but it's not necessarily a blanket explanation for EVERYTHING. You still have processing speed, working memory, all sorts of other stuff that the psychs would be looking at. And you even have people come on the boards occasionally who find out that their dc had a totally different cause than what they thought.

 

So to me, if the Barton testing isn't looking at ALL the facets of the student's issues, I'm not sure it's wise to use just that and skip the fuller ed/neuropsych, kwim? You wouldn't know what else you were missing.

I totally agree with this. I think it's usually best to go for the full psychoeducational evaluation with a good neuropsych ... sometimes the problem is that these are hard to find. Often money is also a big issue for people, so I do think that SB was trying to make it easier for more students to get evaluated and get accommodations, as well as to ultimately get the right kind of tutoring.

 

Also, Barton testers are supposed to screen out those that don't seem to have straightforward, uncomplicated dyslexia. Anyone with signs of more complicated issues are supposed to be referred for fuller testing.

[PeterPan]

Very interesting! Thanks for explaining all that! :)

[Goldberryhill]

My dd is almost 10, and I've struggled all these years trying to teach reading and math. We are not rich, able to throw money at tests (I wish so much we could). I did so much research and thought for sure she must have dsylexia. Using the tips and helps from the library and internet, she has greatly improved this year, but still, she cannot read for very long. I am extremely grateful (THANK YOU!) to the folks on this board for recommending COVD. Our insurance paid for the $195 vision comprehensive exam. Everything we have struggled with over the years was addressed by what the developmental optometrist saw. Even her behavior, which I thought was ADHD, was accounted for by her vision problems. We paid $425 for further testing and will consult this coming week. During her test, three parents came in to do VT. While they waited I quizzed them about effectiveness, and what was their experience. All were praising the results in their children. One mother talked about how her dd had amblyopia and two other eye doctors hadn't helped her--turns out the letters were "dancing on the page." One father was there with his dd (11), who had been tutored for reading problems for two years. One other homeschooling mom had her son dong OT, VT, and earobics... all were significantly helping him. Huge differences. I'm personally glad to begin with VT... I could have spent lots of money on other things, testing, curriculum, etc. but with her vision problems undiagnosed it would have been years of more struggle. I really wonder how many kids and adults out there with LD's have hidden vision problems. My dd may still have dyslexia, but I'm so glad I began here. I think I will put my trust in the parents' testimonials rather than those who are threatened by VT's success. Now, I sure hope this kid won't need braces... affording the $138 a week VT is going to be a challenge. Hopefully she won't need it for long. But thank you again to those who said they'd give their right arm to give their child VT. I'm going for it cuz of what you said! My opinion is that the world needs to hear more about this. Apologies to those who sadly disagree...

[VinNY]

My dtr is language impaired and dyspraxic. At nine years old she still couldn't read even though we were using LiPs and O/G based programs. Her OT told us when she was 6 to think about VT. She was evaluated by both a pediatric opthamologist who said her eyes were healthy but she had a problem with direction:confused:. Our optometrist said she had healthy eyes.

 

When she was 9 we went to the VT doctor as skeptics. Within 4 months she was reading at a 2nd grade level. She still presents as language impaired and has all the dyslexia symptoms. She has low working visual and auditory memory. I have a public school special ed teacher as her support reading teacher, and she sees the same struggles in my dtr...but now she atleast can track and focus. We have a lot of work to do yet, but if your child has any dyspraxic tendencies and can not read by age 9/10, it is atleast worth a visit.

Edited August 22, 2011 by VinNY
spelling etc

[PeterPan]

Doesn't that just make you SPIT that one professional told you NOT to go to another, when that turned out to be the very thing you needed? Argh.

 

Now just as a total rabbit trail, do she have issues with lexicon, word retrieval, etc. ? I've wondered what kinds of things can turn up as issues later.

[VinNY]

Doesn't that just make you SPIT that one professional told you NOT to go to another, when that turned out to be the very thing you needed? Argh.

 

Now just as a total rabbit trail, do she have issues with lexicon, word retrieval, etc. ? I've wondered what kinds of things can turn up as issues later.

 

I don't know if you were addressing me, but my dtr has severe issues with both.

[onaclairadeluna]

Now just as a total rabbit trail, do she have issues with lexicon, word retrieval, etc. ? I've wondered what kinds of things can turn up as issues later.

 

Following this rabbit trail I am wondering what sorts of things people do to help their children with word retrieval. Word retrieval is a major issue with DS, I feel pretty on top of spelling (finally) but formulating his thoughts into words is still pretty challenging for him.

[rafiki]

.

[PeterPan]

Michele, it occurs to me that what you're describing with your oldest may actually be a function of his anxiety, not the VT. His eyes are probably functioning just fine now (or if they're not you should go back and get the glasses or whatever the issue is fixed). But as a result of the therapy he's more AWARE of the feelings. And that could be really problematic for someone with anxiety. Suddenly it's another to worry about or have on their radar, kwim?

 

BTW, that book "What's Eating Your Child" had a section on anxiety. It recommended a combo of therapy (which you're already doing) and omega 3. It didn't promise any miracle cures but said the omega3 could tone it down a bit.

 

But whatever. Have you talked it over with the VT? If you're not happy with how his eyes are functioning, I'd get a 2nd opinion. What you're describing doesn't sound acceptable. If it's anxiety, he needs the therapy to help. If it's actually his eyes, then the VT needs to follow up. But it might be they'd check him, tell you there's nothing wrong, and you'd be left with the conclusion it's anxiety. Guess I just went in circles, sorry.

[Guest aMomNteacher]

Where do I go to have a child tested for dyslexia?

I did not want it to be, but I think it is!

My youngest is 8 and whenever we start back in to school work he write numbers and letters backwards

he wrote a 4 backwards yesterday and wrote 21 for 12

 

 

For the letter reversals use ReverseFixUp.

[gracyomalley]

Word retrieval and in general language output is a huge deal for my ds. When not under pressure he can come up with similies, great vocab, etc...but very sporadically, and never when asked. For instance, in a recent writing lesson on synonyms...

 

Now this kid has a great vocab when tested either with multiple choice testing or picture testing - I mean college level at age 8. How come he can't think of a single word that means "big"?????

 

Because of his dyslexia/language based learning issues. I constantly need to remind myself that this will likely not change much, although he will continue to gain compensatory skills.

 

So...we pulled out his ITouch and used the thesaurus function, and moved on.

 

What I can say, for me, is that full testing (psych - ed) and 2 years of professional tutoring (as in didn't paint the house or put in electricity to the barn or get braces yet because of the expense tutoring) has given me an idea of what to work on "teaching him" and what to use technology to adapt for him. I still find myself flumoxed by what he can't do - and then what he does easily.

 

But throughout all of this, I have to focus on his progress, not his level. to the OP, it was important to figure out what was going on so I would stop trying to find the right way to "fix him" or "make him catch up". What I have discovered (and don't always remember) is that that's not how it rolls...but he can set long term goals of academic success, and likely meet them - HIS WAY.

 

Find your kids way!

Erin

[mommyrooch]

The AAP doesn't recomend any vision assessment at all in the dx of dyslexia bc dyslexia isnt a vision issue but instead is a brain issue. I am bothered by the continued insistance of a few people on this board that COVD is the way to go every time dyslexia comes up.

 

:iagree: My daughter is severly dyslexic and I wasted SO much time because I was misguided by the continued insistance of some that she most likely needed vision therapy. We wasted over a year and spent almost $3000 on vision therapy that absolutely did not help my daughter a bit. What I would give to have that time and money back. That money could have been applied towards something that would have actually helped her and she wouldn't have had to go another year without the proper help. :glare:

 

I finally got a diagnosis (through one of Susan Barton's specialists) and now know that my dd never had "vision" issues. Her problems would have NEVER been helped by vision therapy and I believe to be the case with many other children with "true" ld's like Dyslexia. :sad:

 

We are now using Barton Reading and Spelling with her and she has made more progress is two months than we would have EVER made with VT.

[PeterPan]

I don't think the problem is people mentioning VT. The problem is there are docs out there who are doing VT who will take $3K from someone knowing full well they have a vague diagnosis or no clearly established need. Some kids are dyslexic AND have diagnose-able physical problems with their eyes that require VT. Some kids are dyslexic and don't. That's not rocket science. The issue is the docs who lead people on with promises and vague diagnoses and keep taking their money. We knew very quickly we were on the right track, because we saw changes within a month. The stories I hear about docs requiring exhorbitant amounts upfront, people getting scammed, people getting assigned only slight amounts of work and being told they're getting therapy, people being told to do therapy when there are no actual physical indications of a need, THESE things burn me up, absolutely.

 

It's utterly buyer beware.

Edited September 8, 2011 by OhElizabeth

[ChristusG]

DD's VT/speech language pathologist believes that dyslexia (as well as ADD/ADHD) is just a symptom of an auditory or visual processing disorder.

 

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with her....I'm not sure anymore.

 

I will say that DD7 has been in VT for about 9 months and I haven't noticed much of a difference until I dropped the VT homework and really began to focus on doing my own thing with her. That's when she finally began to actually read words. So I don't believe the VT has been much help. We have friends that went to the same therapist as we do and says her daughter advanced by leaps and bounds during the year she was in therapy. Different things for different people I guess (their child had dyslexia as well).

[mommyrooch]

I don't think the problem is people mentioning VT. The problem is there are docs out there who are doing VT who will take $3K from someone knowing full well they have a vague diagnosis or no clearly established need. Some kids are dyslexic AND have diagnose-able physical problems with their eyes that require VT. Some kids are dyslexic and don't. That's not rocket science. The issue is the docs who lead people on with promises and vague diagnoses and keep taking their money. We knew very quickly we were on the right track, because we saw changes within a month. The stories I hear about docs requiring exhorbitant amounts upfront, people getting scammed, people getting assigned only slight amounts of work and being told they're getting therapy, people being told to do therapy when there are no actual physical indications of a need, THESE things burn me up, absolutely.

 

It's utterly by beware.

 

I agree with everything you said in theory. ;) The problem is that when you have done the research and found a "reputable" doctor, yet still don't get positive results because instead of looking in the direction of a learning disability, you start out with VT because that's the primary direction you've been led.

 

My dd did have a slight tracking problem. I could even see it so it wasn't too hard to "sell" me on the idea that VT would be the solution to her reading problem. Our doctor was also a COVD doctor so why would I have reason to doubt him? Looking back, the answer was really quite simple. I only wish I had seen it then. While this doctor might have been excellent and other children have been helped by VT I should have NEVER let my guard down and just "accepted" that this was my dd's problem. I should have ruled out the possibility of a learning disability BEFORE investing so much time and money into VT.

 

I realize that VT has helped many children. I am not disputing that at all. :001_smile: I am only cautioning those that have a child who is struggling with reading, PLEASE don't disregard the possibility that there might be a lot more going on than just a vision issue! In other words, don't put all of your eggs in one basket just because others have shared how wonderful their experiences were with VT. ;) If a child has a true learning disability then VT will not solve their problem and the time and resources (especially if a family is financially struggling) might be better spent addressing the learning disability in lieu of the VT. I only wish I had done that for my daughter. :001_smile:

[PeterPan]

DD's VT/speech language pathologist believes that dyslexia (as well as ADD/ADHD) is just a symptom of an auditory or visual processing disorder.

 

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with her....I'm not sure anymore.

 

I will say that DD7 has been in VT for about 9 months and I haven't noticed much of a difference until I dropped the VT homework and really began to focus on doing my own thing with her. That's when she finally began to actually read words. So I don't believe the VT has been much help. We have friends that went to the same therapist as we do and says her daughter advanced by leaps and bounds during the year she was in therapy. Different things for different people I guess (their child had dyslexia as well).

 

Hold it, your VT is being done by a *speech pathologist*??? I've heard of OT's doing VT, and even that gave me pause. For an SLP to do it is downright weird. Or did you mean between the two (a VT and an SLP), you've gotten this concensus? It doesn't make sense to me, because dyslexia (which is of course a vague diagnosis that is being changed to other labels like reading disorder, blah blah) involves so much more. I mean what about OBVIOUS stuff like bilaterality issues? Nope, whatever is going on there, it seems like too simplistic an explanation.

 

Again, VT isn't for dyslexia. VT is for the diagnose-able eye problems that some dyslexics have. We've seen a huge spread here with some dyslexic kids turning out not to have those problems, some kids having the eye problems and not dyslexia, some having both. There isn't a sure-fire way to know, except to get the evaluation. But if you aren't seeing results, absolutely I'd question what is going on, mercy.

[PeterPan]

... yet still don't get positive results because instead of looking in the direction of a learning disability, you start out with VT because that's the primary direction you've been led.

 

My dd did have a slight tracking problem... I should have NEVER let my guard down and just "accepted" that this was my dd's problem. I should have ruled out the possibility of a learning disability BEFORE investing so much time and money into VT.

 

 

I see two hard things here. One is the challenge that sometimes it turns out we need or want more therapies than we can afford. You don't actually have a guarantee that your changes on the dyslexia end (whatever you did, Barton, etc. etc.) would have worked WITHOUT the VT. If she actually *had* the tracking problem and *had* legitimate eye issues that the VT improved, then that probably created the foundation for success with the next steps you took. Many of us did it the other way, teaching to the dyslexia first and finding the physical road blocks later. It's not like you can tutor out or tutor through the physical problems. You don't know what would have happened if you had done your tutoring changes before VT.

 

But to the extent that you hoped the VT would solve everything and that there wasn't an LD (or that they eye doc blew off concerns about LD's or didn't recommend further evals), I feel for you. I've had contradictory and bizarre answers when I asked the VT doc, OT, etc. about the dyslexia. I finally decided that wasn't their field and that it was my job to pursue that track and that their answers would be out of their speciality and not persuasive to me. These kids are like onions. We have to start somewhere and start peeling.

[mommyrooch]

I see two hard things here. One is the challenge that sometimes it turns out we need or want more therapies than we can afford. You don't actually have a guarantee that your changes on the dyslexia end (whatever you did, Barton, etc. etc.) would have worked WITHOUT the VT. If she actually *had* the tracking problem and *had* legitimate eye issues that the VT improved, then that probably created the foundation for success with the next steps you took. Many of us did it the other way, teaching to the dyslexia first and finding the physical road blocks later. It's not like you can tutor out or tutor through the physical problems. You don't know what would have happened if you had done your tutoring changes before VT.

 

Actually, I do know. During the VT and for about a year after completing VT we began using Spell to Write and Read with my dd. I'm sure you're familiar that SWR is O-G based. Even with this my daughter did not make one ounce of improvement in reading so the VT had no bearing. It was the program. Her dyslexia was just so severe that even with the "eye issues" addressed, she still couldn't learn to read. SWR moved WAY to fast for her. However, after beginning an intensive O-G program like Barton my daughter made more progress over the course of 2 months than she had in 3 years! 1 of those years having been in VT and the next year following working extensively with her using SWR. It most certainly was NOT the VT that made any difference. If it had it helped it would have shown up "somewhere" in the year following the therapy. It wasn't until we started her on Barton (over a year later) that we finally saw improvement.

 

I am 100% convinced that in my daughter's case it was the program that made the difference. I believe that the VT had absolutely no bearing on her improvement. Again, if it had, it would have shown up "somewhere" within that year following VT. But zip, zilch, nada. :) No change until we began the Barton.

[ChristusG]

Hold it, your VT is being done by a *speech pathologist*??? I've heard of OT's doing VT, and even that gave me pause. For an SLP to do it is downright weird. Or did you mean between the two (a VT and an SLP), you've gotten this concensus? It doesn't make sense to me, because dyslexia (which is of course a vague diagnosis that is being changed to other labels like reading disorder, blah blah) involves so much more. I mean what about OBVIOUS stuff like bilaterality issues? Nope, whatever is going on there, it seems like too simplistic an explanation.

 

Again, VT isn't for dyslexia. VT is for the diagnose-able eye problems that some dyslexics have. We've seen a huge spread here with some dyslexic kids turning out not to have those problems, some kids having the eye problems and not dyslexia, some having both. There isn't a sure-fire way to know, except to get the evaluation. But if you aren't seeing results, absolutely I'd question what is going on, mercy.

 

Well, she's actually gone to school for a lot of things and holds a lot of titles....she's a vision therapist, speech-language pathologist, and also an audiologist. Not sure if she holds any more titles than that or not LOL.

[LaughingCat]

See, in my mind, this is the biggest problem....there's no clear path, and many of the specialists seem to think it is their way or no way - AND they overdiagnose "their way". So the parents are left guessing which type of specialist to visit first and no clue if they've made the right choice. Leading to time and money spent uselessly.

 

I mean, don't you think the exact opposite of mommyrooch's experience is possible? - that someone could go to a Barton specialist and spend a year doing Barton and see the same no improvement that mommyrooch saw with VT and then go to VT and see huge improvement?

 

I've seen Susan Barton speak and she is adamant that if your child has a very open/non-specific (IMO) set of symptoms that VT will NOT help - yet it HAS helped many people. It seems to have helped my own DD...within a narrow set of confines. By which I mean it has helped with tracking/convergence/seeing double but not with any phonics/guessing type issues (which really is obvious when you think about it). Still it is also obvious that it would be hard for a child to "get" phonics, no matter how repetitive, when they are seeing double or their eyes are jumping all over the page.

 

As an aside, we just started Apples & Pears, and one of the regular exercises is pretty much the same as one type of DD's tracking homework, on a smaller scale.

 

What I dream of is a set of tests that say - this means these particular VT exercises, this means this type of work on phonics, those mean memory, auditory, or sensory etc. I know some neuropsych's do something like that, but other stories of neuropsych experience seem more aligned with the "it's this (their specialty) or it's not" way of thinking. :sigh:

 

LL

Side note: My VT appears nothing like mommyrooch's for what that's worth - the time frame is much shorter (3 months then re-evalutate) and now that she's improved they've been the one's suggesting less appts. and more homework

[mommyrooch]

See, in my mind, this is the biggest problem....there's no clear path, and many of the specialists seem to think it is their way or no way - AND they overdiagnose "their way". So the parents are left guessing which type of specialist to visit first and no clue if they've made the right choice. Leading to time and money spent uselessly.

 

I actually completely agree with you. :001_smile: I am certain that it could happen the other way around too. That only adds to the point I was trying to make.

 

If your child is struggling to read, don't put all of your eggs in ANY one basket. Regardless of what you've been told. If your child struggles to read and a vision problems is found, like tracking, convergence etc, don't just "assume" that this is the entire problem and not pursue the possibility of a learning disability. Still follow up on the LD possibility so that you can at least rule it out or adress that "too" if it's found.

 

On the other hand, if you're diagnosed with a learning disability, don't just "assume" that it's the only problem. Be willing to get you child's eyes checked to so that you have also ruled that out.

 

The problem arises when a set group, including the doctors, are pushing you one way or the other and are convincing you that they have found the problem. As if they have magically found "the cure." Specialisists should stress to patients that there "might" be more than one issue and to at least rule out other possibilities.

 

Often times that doesn't happen though and children like my daughter fall through the cracks. I just don't want to see that happen to other kids. A lot of doctors won't tell you that there's a good chance that there are multiple issues going on. They specialize in their area and usually assure you that your child will see great improvement with their methods "without" telling you that something else could be wrong. Some times kids will see great improvements with VT but I bet there are many cases, as was seen with my dd, where the child really didn't see any benefit because it wasn't really the biggest problem in the first place. :(

[PeterPan]

Well, she's actually gone to school for a lot of things and holds a lot of titles....she's a vision therapist, speech-language pathologist, and also an audiologist. Not sure if she holds any more titles than that or not LOL.

 

So does she work under the auspices of a developmental optometrist or other form of eye doc for this?? There is such a thing as a certified VT, but ours was working under an eye doc. Hadn't even occurred to me someone would work without that. Seems like there would be a lot of liability there for problems they'd miss, etc.

[Princess Peach]

Where do I go to have a child tested for dyslexia?

I did not want it to be, but I think it is!

My youngest is 8 and whenever we start back in to school work he write numbers and letters backwards

he wrote a 4 backwards yesterday and wrote 21 for 12

I think he is past the age of that, "just happening" -Am I right, or am I wrong?

He also seems to hear things differently than other people like yesterday we were saying deaf and he thought we were saying death-is this just normal am I over reacting on this?

Sorry, I am just feeling a bit discombobulated at the moment and I hate to just jump up and say we have an issue if we don't!

Any advice, tips!

He also says things a bit funny-like yesterday he said. "I don't matter what color a bike is." What he meant was-It doesn't matter to me what color the bike is or I don't care what color the bike is-but he mixed the two and it came out odd-can you help direct me-somebody?

He is very large for his age-he is only 2 inches shorter than his 12 year old brother and about 4 lbs less!

I have read where some kids grow so fast it takes so much out of them, that they struggle to learn?? Any thoughts, he is extremely social, well liked (loved) he is goofy and quite the cut up! He is an extremely joyful person to be around, love playing street hockey, and ice hockey and bmx! So really by just looking at him, you would not notice anything different, but there are just these little things that make me wonder if his input is wired a bit different!!

Thoughts, advice?

Thanks in advance

Nicole Brown

 

Well, I wish we lived closer so we could have coffee together! I think your DS and my DS are twins! :)

 

My DS8 has many of those exact issues (and he's goofy to boot, lol!). I do suspect dyslexia for him, too. He is using AAS and HWT, which are both recommended for LD kids (although any kid can use them with success).

 

I would recommend you start by having him evaluated at the public elem school. Just send them a letter stating that you want an eval done. I did this and we are getting ready to look at the results soon. Yes, I do have a thread on here about how I'm frustrated with them, lol. But it's free and honestly to do it privately was going to be very pricey. They cannot give you a dyslexia diagnosis, though. I do hope we get some answers of some kind. And I hope you do, too.

[Dobela]

Actually, I do know. During the VT and for about a year after completing VT we began using Spell to Write and Read with my dd. I'm sure you're familiar that SWR is O-G based. Even with this my daughter did not make one ounce of improvement in reading so the VT had no bearing. It was the program. Her dyslexia was just so severe that even with the "eye issues" addressed, she still couldn't learn to read. SWR moved WAY to fast for her. However, after beginning an intensive O-G program like Barton my daughter made more progress over the course of 2 months than she had in 3 years! 1 of those years having been in VT and the next year following working extensively with her using SWR. It most certainly was NOT the VT that made any difference. If it had it helped it would have shown up "somewhere" in the year following the therapy. It wasn't until we started her on Barton (over a year later) that we finally saw improvement.

 

I am 100% convinced that in my daughter's case it was the program that made the difference. I believe that the VT had absolutely no bearing on her improvement. Again, if it had, it would have shown up "somewhere" within that year following VT. But zip, zilch, nada. :) No change until we began the Barton.

I think this is why our talking and sharing ALL of our experiences on this board are so very important. For my son, Barton didn't work, and VT did. Susan Barton told me that based on the screening test scores, my son would not be able to learn to read with her program. However, even though it didn't work for us, I still think it is an excellent program, and one I feel comfortable recommending. Just because VT didn't work for your dd doesn't mean it is not a valid or successful approach for other families. Every child is different and as such, the path we each need to take is different.