Self-educating: Evolution vs. ID/Creation. Resources Please!

[Food4Thought]

I would like to spend a few months getting a good grip (or getting a grip? Maybe just hanging by my fingernails) on the differences (and similarities) between Creation, Intelligent Design and Evolution.

 

What are some of your favorite books about these topics? I'm looking for well-researched publications by respected scientists and philosophers. Please don't direct me to websites. I know where two of the big ones are, but I'd prefer some great books and/or movies about the subject. I want to know all possible sides, so if you've got a resource that sealed the deal for you, please let me know!

 

Thanks in advance. :)

[Greta Lea]

My son (17yo) and I read this book last spring. Highly recommend it.

[Skadi]

Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne

The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution by Richard Dawkins

 

I also liked Why Darwin Matters: The Case Against Intelligent Design, if you're interested in more of a quick point-by-point retort, however, the author lacks depth and breadth compared to the other two books I mentioned.

[forty-two]

I really enjoyed Science & Christianity: Four Views; it doesn't deal directly with creationism vs. evolution, but examines different ways of integrating science and the Bible. Gives a lot to think about.

 

More directly, there's Darwin's Black Box, by Michael Behe.

[Miss Marple]

I would like to spend a few months getting a good grip (or getting a grip? Maybe just hanging by my fingernails) on the differences (and similarities) between Creation, Intelligent Design and Evolution.

 

What are some of your favorite books about these topics? I'm looking for well-researched publications by respected scientists and philosophers. Please don't direct me to websites. I know where two of the big ones are, but I'd prefer some great books and/or movies about the subject. I want to know all possible sides, so if you've got a resource that sealed the deal for you, please let me know!

 

Thanks in advance. :)

 

I'm listening to an audio series on Genesis by Rob Whittaker of Capernwray Bible School. It is excellent so far. He references Richard Dawkins as well as Lee Strobel (for the religious POV) and many others. His goal is to show the students the arguments of each side as well as the various creationism POVs and let the students decide where they stand.

 

http://www.capernwray.org.uk/Category.php?cid=13 Scroll down the page.

[lewelma]

Biozone's evolution is a very readable inexpensive text with clearly defined topics. It is not philosophical, but rather spends one page on each type of evolutionary process, for example: natural selection, genetic drift, sexual selection, speciation, population genetics, etc. Each page has 1 paragraph describing the topic and a diagram with an example. http://www.thebiozone.com/modular.php They also have a human evolution text which I have not seen.

 

Ruth

[stripe]

This was a story recently on NPR; you might want to follow up some of the books referenced

http://www.npr.org/2011/08/09/138957812/evangelicals-question-the-existence-of-adam-and-eve

[Food4Thought]

Thanks for the recommendations so far! I'm making a list. Please keep them coming!

[laughing lioness]

 

Reasons to Believe has a lot of resources.

[emubird]

Nova (PBS) did a series called Evolution. The one we found most interesting was Darwin's Dangerous Idea (but the others were also good). Our library has the whole set, but if you can't get it there, much of it seems to be on youtube.

 

Here's the first part of the Darwin episode:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9073555471451092793

 

Here is the Nova resource site:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/teachers/overviews/0000_evodarwi.html

 

And here are a number of other Nova shows on evolution:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/

 

Also, these videos put up by the anonymous "potholer54" are actually pretty good (my college biology teaching husband has actually used a couple in his classes):

 

I haven't found a website that just has these videos, so you'd have to hunt around youtube for the rest in the series. You'll also see a number of uninformed comments on these videos from people who obviously didn't watch them, or chose not to get the point. (Although this guy originally put these up anonymously, he doesn't appear to just be some crackpot. He recently "came out", as it were. I think he's a professor somewhere. I forget the details.)

 

If you want to spend a lot of money, you could get access to Thinkwell's Biology which has a lot on evolution. A lot cheaper would be getting any decent college general biology textbook and reading the chapters on evolution. A local library might have such texts. Or you can buy them used on amazon for a couple dollars (if you get an older edition which will likely be virtually identical to the current edition). Campbell and Reece is a standard text (if you need a name), but most texts used in college courses would do.

 

ETA -- if you're looking for evolution vs creationism you probably won't find much of that in standard science texts. They're written to teach the science. To them, creationism is just an odd blip way out there on the landscape that doesn't amount to much. If you're mostly looking for the debate between them, from the evolution point of view, probably the potholer54 youtube videos are your best bet.

Edited August 17, 2011 by emubird

[kmp]

http://www.answersingenesis.org/

[Free]

Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne

The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution by Richard Dawkins

 

I also liked Why Darwin Matters: The Case Against Intelligent Design, if you're interested in more of a quick point-by-point retort, however, the author lacks depth and breadth compared to the other two books I mentioned.

 

I second Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne. Very concise and to the point and yet very comprehensive as well.

 

Another book I truly enjoyed was Your Inner Fish by Neil Shubin.

[Susan C.]

The movie Expelled.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Expelled-Intelligence-Allowed-Ben-Stein/dp/B001BYLFFS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1313603960&sr=8-1

[Skadi]

The movie Expelled.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Expelled-Intelligence-Allowed-Ben-Stein/dp/B001BYLFFS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1313603960&sr=8-1

 

Expelled is really poorly done, and several of the claims Ben Stein made are either misrepresented or blatantly false. Here's a good place to start, and you can Google for "Expelled false claims" for other articles and websites. The only thing Ben Stein accomplished with that film, in my honest opinion, was to make the Intelligent Design movement look bad by association.

 

Films are often sensationalized and light on facts. I think that's why it's such a good idea for the OP to read books instead.

[Food4Thought]

Expelled is really poorly done, and several of the claims Ben Stein made are either misrepresented or blatantly false. Here's a good place to start, and you can Google for "Expelled false claims" for other articles and websites. The only thing Ben Stein accomplished with that film, in my honest opinion, was to make the Intelligent Design movement look bad by association.

 

Films are often sensationalized and light on facts. I think that's why it's such a good idea for the OP to read books instead.

 

Please don't criticize any one else's recommendations. My whole goal with this project is to get all sides in the best media they have to offer, and I don't want anyone to hesitate to offer a resource for fear of attack. I know everyone is coming to it with their own beliefs in place - I'm just hoping for good recommendations and no fights here. :)

 

And like I said in my 1st post, I'm not interested in websites or Google at the moment. I may do some of that later, but I want to immerse myself in reading and watching first. Thanks!

[Joules]

 

Only a Theory:Evolution and the Battle for America's Soul by Kenneth Miller is excellent and has more recent research than many of the other resources I found.

[stripe]

I don't know what angle you're looking at, but I recently saw this book by Russell Stannard, who is a physicist, about understanding science and also being a Christian. (I've never seen it, but I was looking at his books as he wrote some about physics for kids.) These books are not only about the beginning of the world.

 

One is the God Experiment. He's also editor of God for the 21st Century.

[Jane in NC]

A very basic introduction to the subject is published by the National Academy of Sciences: Science, Evolution and Creationism. While one can purchase a copy of it from the Academy, it is also available as a free PDF download here.

[Deniseibase]

I second The Greatest Show on Earth, that did more to help me understand what evolution is and how it works than any other book.

 

If you are interested in the social history of this debate, one book I found absolutely fascinating was Monkey Girl: Evolution, Education, Religion, and the Battle for America's Soul. It focuses on the Kitzmiller v. Dover trial, and it's a great read.

 

Another great author on this topic is Ken Miller - he has two books, Only a Theory and Finding Darwin's God. He has an interesting perspective because he is an evolutionary biologist who also believes in God, so he is considerably more sympathetic to the creationist/ID camp than many others, but he still comes down foursquare on the side of evolution. I think Only a Theory is the book that finally convinced me that evolution was in fact true.

[Food4Thought]

Thank you all so much! Some of these books look absolutely fascinating (especially Monkey Girl and Your Inner Fish). I have added many of them to a growing library list and will be working through them, starting with Darwin's Origin of the Species, of course.

 

Are there any good resources on Young Earth Creationism (besides the websites)? So far, I haven't found much on that particular view.

[twoforjoy]

 

TalkOrigins is a great resource.

[HejKatt]

:lurk5: because I'm trying to self-educate on this too.

 

Amazon has the following title which claims to present both sides (though author is pro-evolution)

http://www.amazon.com/Evolution-vs-Creationism-Introduction-ebook/dp/B0020HRSY2

[stripe]

A very basic introduction to the subject is published by the National Academy of Sciences: Science, Evolution and Creationism. While one can purchase a copy of it from the Academy, it is also available as a free PDF download here.

 

Jane -- thanks to you, I found out I can download all sorts of books from there --free! Thank you ever so much!

[WishboneDawn]

TalkOrigins is a great resource.

 

Love that one! It's a great place to really learn the proper use of citations and footnotes as well. :)

[Dana]

I don't know if this is quite what you're looking for, but we just watched the Nova series: Becoming Human. It's instant watch on Netflix. Really good, talking about some of the species on the hominid evolutionary branch and how the fossil record is filling in.

 

We just finished up Oxford's World in Ancient Times Early Humans. It's been fascinating to me to see how much has been discovered just in recent years (past couple decades... since my undergrad...). I'm finding it fascinating.

[Julie in MN]

Are there any good resources on Young Earth Creationism (besides the websites)? So far, I haven't found much on that particular view.

 

I noticed a lacking on that side, too :) So I'll just share some things I liked when I was researching for myself. I live in Minnesota and when I first started my study, I became annoyed at how one-sided everything is here in my home state, whether in schools, museums, documentaries, or churches -- never even once stating something is un-testable or potentially will need to be revised, just expected me to "believe the experts." So for those reasons, I didn't need to seek out anything about why evolution is true and why creationists are wrong -- I could just walk around the Science Museum of Minnesota for that. I also didn't need to read anything about Christians who believe in evolution, because there are a few million around here :) So that's why my little list is pretty streamlined toward one particular side.

 

But if you want to know more about the evolution side, just get some of the free DVD lectures from HHMI. They are positively obsessed about evolution, and even have whole lecture series particularly set up to win creationists to the evolution side. One discussion session tried to help win kids over by inviting a guest to share how evolution melds with his Christian faith - though unfortunately the guest was so open to believing in anything that he wasn't helpful in my opinion. Anyways, one gleeful HHMI lecturer even wore a mousetrap tie because he beat a creationist in a debate. (I do like HHMI videos and their free services, by the way, and this is partly tongue-in-cheek, but just saying they might be an alternative resource :tongue_smilie: )

 

1. The first thing I read in my quest to know the other side was chapter 1 of Streams of Civilization, a high school text by CLP. I still have a fondness for that chapter, because it pointed out how many of the things in museums and textbooks have turned out to be errors, or even downright hoaxes. A little shocking to a book lover like me! But in some ways it opened a door to science for me, since I'd been so turned off by its absolutism in the past (not necessarily about creationism, but just about everything -- no one has ever seen an electron, yet I had to teach my dd endless "facts" about their orbits zzzzzz. I'm so grateful other folks like that stuff and invent new medicines for my dh...).

 

2. Another favorite of mine is probably not accessible any more. It's a cassette from here in Minnesota, Evidence vs. Evolution, from the Bible And Science series of lectures, by John Eagen (who unfortunately had an affair and is no longer a well-known pastor). I don't know if those cassettes are in circulation any more or not, but I like mine. He feels that as a Christian he wants to know all of science, and he has no fear that in the end it will all make sense in light of the Bible.

 

3. Ken Ham's book The New Answers Book can get redundant in its passion at times, but it has several authors contributing. It will clarify why "death before the fall of man" is so very important to creationists, and why "telling our children that the Bible isn't necessarily all true" is of more than a passing concern to this group, so it should be helpful that way. But beyond that, it presents at least "reasons why it's possible" or "another way to think about" these various theories, and it covers lots and lots of topics. I think if you read it with the idea that science should be open to all ideas, especially in areas that they absolutely can never see, test, or reproduce, then it might be quite helpful. It certainly covers a lot of ground. I've passed my book on and it's been passed on, always agreed to have food for thought.

 

4. For historical interpretation of the past, I have to mention Motel of the Mysteries, by David Macaulay who does all those line drawings in Pyramid and City etc. I just like that he shows how a lot of things in history are total guesses. I mean, it's kinda obvious, but it's something easily forgotten or passed over without this really memorable reminder. He has these guys digging up "our" culture and deciding that we must have worshiped a TV or a toilet or something. It's not really on evolution, but it's on the topic of making guesses about things we don't really know. I might even contrast this with Guns, Germs, & Steel, the latest popular theory that says "we don't know what happened" but really means "he knows what happened."

 

5. Also for archeology, Unwrapping the Pharaohs by David Downs is a good read, even for looking at Christians who get too excited about one theory matching the Bible, and miss another emerging theory. Of course, I like that the plumb line is the Bible and it's we humans who get it wrong, but I see that as related to figuring out the whole evolution/creation picture from the clues that we have available at any one time.

 

6. Just a beautifully written book (IMHO) is Fearfully and Wonderfully Made, and it's companion In His Image, by Philip Yancey, if you want to look at whether we humans were "created" from the point of view of a physician. If you don't want the faith lessons, you could just read it for the medical half (the first half of each chapter). He also touches on many faith challenges such as pain and suffering, since he spent his life working with lepers, and always relates back to creation. (You might contrast In His Image by doing some research on the famous Koko the gorilla, to really look at what the alternative "image" might be. I found it an interesting contrast, anyways, reading for instance the Koko website and the gentle mention of controversy in the Wikipedia article.)

 

7. A good one for recognizing that Christianity and science are compatible is The Soul of Science, Christian Faith & Natural Philosophy, by Pearcey & Thaxton. These authors even suggest that the whole scientific method would not be here except for the JudeoChristian worldview that helps us see the world as orderly and predictable, even when we don't understand it all yet -- which is not necessarily a common worldview.

 

8. Almost any Christian science textbook will cover the issue of creating something from nothing, of contrasting a pile of blocks thrown together in a big bang vs. a pile of blocks built into an amazing city, and ask whether you would assume both happened by chance. Good textbooks will tease out the difference between "the big bang theory" and "the theory of evolution." You could pick up an Apologia textbook or anything else by a Christian high school science publisher to get a start at some very basics. Those in the science debates know these things, but some of us haven't really gotten them straight in our brains, so we mix up the arguments.

 

 

 

Well, there's a start from the other side 'o the tracks. I don't know if they're technical enough for your needs, because I kinda snore when reading the nitty gritty arguments on each side. I figure most of it is just gonna be wrong, so I'll wait and learn about those bits later. I mean, I just heard on an HHMI video that DNA was known but previously cast aside as too simplistic to matter... But I digress...

 

I do like to look carefully at thoughts and methods and openness to ideas, and mull things over in light of what I actually see in the world around me. So these resources are coming from various sides of that process.

 

I do hope I said everything respectfully and in good humor.

 

Julie

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Francis Collins' books are written by a prominent biologist who is also a Christian. The Language of God is one. The Language of Science and Faith is another (and might be more of what you are looking for).

 

I appreciated that he wasn't using evolution to try to disprove God.

[Free]

I have added many of them to a growing library list and will be working through them, starting with Darwin's Origin of the Species, of course.

 

I found Origin of Species a little tedious since Darwin uses archaic language. He also writes in great detail about his voyages and his experiments with pigeons and such. Since genetics was not known back then, some of his incorrect ideas on how inheritance works can end up confusing rather than informing.

 

It is an important book to read if you are interested in the history of evolutionary ideas, but to actually understand the science I would suggest starting from some of the modern books.