OT/ST vs swimming and martial arts/home therapy?

[rafiki]

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[wapiti]

:lurk5: dd10 has suddenly and spontaneously decided that she wants to take karate

[LittleIzumi]

Gymnastics is like OT for The Drama.

[Tokyomarie]

My son did both swimming & martial arts (Tae Kwan Do) in his elementary years. They are both really good for work on the whole body & for crossing midline. As a substitute for OT, it really depends on your goals for OT.

 

Similar with ST. For my daughter's language issues, we really needed ST to move us off of square one for our purposes, but were able to discontinue it after about a year. We did do a second year of language therapy after dd hit adolescence and we needed some help moving past a certain point.

[Dmmetler]

Like Izumi, I've found that gymnastics has done more for my DD's sensory issues than OT did. Honestly, if I'd realized how much it would help, I'd have put her in the "tumbling toddlers" class at age 2! And gymnastics is quite a bit less expensive than even the co-payments for OT (and since DD is just barely over the line where she's considered to have SID, my insurance only pays for a few monitoring visits with an OT a year-after that I'm on my own).

 

 

 

I'm a 17 year speech therapy alumni-and what helped me most, I think, was drama classes. Not on the specific articulation issues, but on the pacing and fluency issues which, by high school, were more disabling than the specific articulation issues (which really didn't improve much after about age 12). I will say, though, that I probably wouldn't have made it through public high school EMOTIONALLY without my speech therapist, because that was the safe spot where I could vent about what was happening, and I needed that outlet more than I needed to work on the /r/ controlled vowels.

[Dobela]

For us it has made a difference depending on which child you are talking about.

How much has OT and ST alone helped your SN child?

 

Could you have done similar if you had a detailed evaluation for both, then used the results to help guide you as to what areas to hit on? There are many materials on the market to guide one with OT and ST (in comparison to VT).

 

How do you know if your dc is to complex to try this yourself? Youngest DS does not have articulation issues and communicates both ways with those he knows and is comfortable with. He does have some "volume" issues, oral sensory needs, no safety concerns, handwriting delays (although grip is fine), and struggles in social settings, with literalness, attention, etc.. To me these are how ASD looks on him.

 

This summer he's been taking private swimming lessons three times a week and has had a significant growth spurt across the board since starting. I'm wondering if it wouldn't be wiser use of our time and money to come up with my own "home therapy" for him and enroll him in martial arts over the winter when swimming isn't available.

 

Oldest ds takes martial arts, they do all sorts of mind and full body exercises.

 

At first I thought $150 a month for oldest DS to take karate was a lot, but now that I'm looking at $120 an hour for youngest DS to be in OT/ST it seems like a bargain for what it provides them.

 

That would also work on his social skills.

 

I guess I'm wondering if OT/ST is as life changing as VT was or if swimming/martial arts, etc. can fill that need for some children? For my son, OT wasn't life changing. In the long run, I am not so sure it helped him a great deal. In the end, I was disappointed with he OT and how she ran her therapy center. As a professional, I had seen many, many more that were far superior. For my son the greatest difference in sensory issues came after VT and correcting vision issues.

My dd though has had life changing experiences with her OT, but especially her ST. Dd was having issues with oral motor control, swallowing issues, inability to control her tongue well, eating issues... Her SLP last year was relentless in increaseing her skills and now you would never know she had all of those issues. However, now she is struggling with fluency (stuttering) and we are with another therapist. Honestly, I don't think I could address all that DD needs with ST by myself. I don't recognize what are issues, where potential problems are, how to address the problem, or best practice for her age.

OT helped with sensory issues, but so has PT. But at age 4 they are closely linked.

 

What kind of growth/change did you see through OT/ST? Have you tried outside activities? Can you compare the results from the two?

 

He's a young 7, has always had his own timeline, but progressed. We tried PT/ST through early intervention until he aged out. It really wasn't anything magic, he continued to progress when he was ready. Hence my hesitation. He'll be repeating 1st this year, but is doing mid first grade work now.

I can see though how outside activities help, and seem to help even more than the therapies. This summer I signed dd up for free ballet classes at the library. After 6 weeks in ballet she made so much progress gross motor wise that even her PT was amazed. Do I think that dance classes are better than PT though?? No, not for dd. Ballet worked on many of the same skills that the PT was. The difference I think was that ballet was fun, she had peers to immitate, and she saw the purpose for the movements in ballet that in PT she didn't. For example standing on one foot. DD has been working on this for months in PT and at home. I couldn't get her to do it for anything even making it as a game. 2 weeks of ballet she was on one foot and making small leaps (she wasn't jumping before either). Maybe it was the French names LOL for the movements.

 

I say all of this to say I see it all as complementary for my dd. Without the PT whe wouldn't be in ballet, but without the ballet she wouldn't have as much purpose for what she is doing in PT.

 

My son though I still watch closely. Annually I can ask for a re-eval to make certain he is still on target. I stopped OT when I felt he wasn't making enough progress to warrant my time in taking him. He has been fine.

[Guest]

OT did wonders specifically for dd's balance; it enabled her to finally ride a bike (at age nine), use stilts, jump on a pogo stick, and a number of other things.

 

OT was also truly helpful for me, in seeing how to approach teaching dd physical skills which I and everyone else I knew had learned just by observation. Dd didn't learn that way.

 

On the other hand, OT was not particularly helpful for a number of sensory issues and for fine motor skills or upper body strength. None of these things came together until dd began horseback riding, and later, working at the barn. She had hours of activities which required adjusting her balance, bonding with animals and people, lifting heavy tack, feed buckets, and hay, helping little kids tack up (buckle buckles, do and undo chain locks, all kinds of fine motor skills), sweeping, washing horses, etc.

 

What made the difference was what a couple of other posters have commented on already: these were activities with an immediate purpose dear to dd's heart, and they were FUN. She did them because she wanted to; and of course because she wanted to, she worked far harder than she ever would have in therapy or at home. Riding has been for dd what it sounds like karate is for one of your kids: an ideal combination of mental discipline, physical work, and socialization skills.

 

It's OT integrated into real life. As kids grow older and more resistant to being "different" or requiring therapies, something like this is a lifesaver.

[LittleIzumi]

What made the difference was what a couple of other posters have commented on already: these were activities with an immediate purpose dear to dd's heart, and they were FUN. She did them because she wanted to; and of course because she wanted to, she worked far harder than she ever would have in therapy or at home. Riding has been for dd what it sounds like karate is for one of your kids: an ideal combination of mental discipline, physical work, and socialization skills.

 

It's OT integrated into real life. As kids grow older and more resistant to being "different" or requiring therapies, something like this is a lifesaver.

 

:iagree::iagree: Normally, if dd is the slightest bit upset (even if you say her name in a slightly loud voice :glare:), she would melt down, crying, sobbing, begging for her mama (or her dada if I was the one she was upset by), etc. For dd with gymnastics, she actually came back after the first class saying, "When [i was on the bar], I wanted to say, 'MAMA' but I didn't! I did it!" She said a few parts were "scary" to her teacher, and the teacher got her to do them partway repeatedly. We practiced during the week and she went back for class two on Monday. This time she came upon three parts that were "scary" for her. The teacher got her to do the ENTIRE exercise on all three parts, and afterwards dd pronounced that the entire class was her favorite, and the scary parts were FUN! Instead of breaking down, she persevered and did so well both times. Awesome sauce. (FTR, we have also cut out dairy this summer & it really seems to be improving her attitude as well.)

[wapiti]

one reason I was afraid to look into gymnastics early on was dd's low tone. Her PT had said she might be more prone to injury due to the extra flexibility. I wonder whether the same would apply to karate.

[bettyandbob]

my ds did OT twice a week for 2.5 years. The year he made the most progress was the year he did swimming twice a week, gymnastics twice a week, and soccer. After withdrawing from OT many years ago we have always required ds to be in a sport. For a while it was swimming and one additional sport. We dropped swimming at age 12, but ds still had to be in a sport. He was always permitted to choose the sport. Prior to age 10 he tried ice hockey, soccer, t ball, basketball, wrestling, and I'm sure something else. At age 10 he started TKD did that for 3.5 years. After that he did personal training and group fitness classes for teens. Also at 13 he started drums, which is physical and demanding.

 

I believe physical activities are essential for sensory involved kids, even if they (like my kiddo) are not great athletes. When they hit the teen years, a child who is not a great athlete may feel most comfortable working out with a personal trainer (and getting "homework" for between sessions) or in martial arts.

[bettyandbob]

one reason I was afraid to look into gymnastics early on was dd's low tone. Her PT had said she might be more prone to injury due to the extra flexibility. I wonder whether the same would apply to karate.

 

 

My ds has low tone and gymnastics was great for him. The key was the coach/facility. We attended a class for homeschoolers, which meant it contained a range of abilities among the kids and not simply olympic wannabees. Additionally, I spoke to the coach ahead of time about ds's issues, so he knew what could be expected of him was different. I would recommend looking around at facilities and asking questions. You might look for facilities that offer "adaptive" classes, because even if you don't do an adaptive class you could try to work with a coach that understands special physical issues.

[PeterPan]

Michele, you're thinking too in the box. Find someone who will do OT with him once a month and give you lots of homework. Or do OT every week or every other week for a while, till you learn some things, then back off to once a month with lots of homework. Just because you're willing to do things at home doesn't mean you need to do it ALONE.

 

Speech is the same way. Go for a while, learn, then decrease the appointments with you filling in the gaps actively and purposefully. There IS stuff you can do with this, absolutely. But there's also a lot an experienced therapist is going to bring to the table in those fields. I wouldn't go it alone. You don't know what you don't know, and I think you'll kick yourself later.

[PeterPan]

one reason I was afraid to look into gymnastics early on was dd's low tone. Her PT had said she might be more prone to injury due to the extra flexibility. I wonder whether the same would apply to karate.

 

Our OT mentioned this too, but it was specific joints. Of course my dd isn't exactly a swan on a gymastics mat, lol, so we didn't pursue it farther than the initial, intro classes. :)

[rafiki]

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[rafiki]

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[Tokyomarie]

Michele, you're thinking too in the box. Find someone who will do OT with him once a month and give you lots of homework. Or do OT every week or every other week for a while, till you learn some things, then back off to once a month with lots of homework. Just because you're willing to do things at home doesn't mean you need to do it ALONE.

 

Speech is the same way. Go for a while, learn, then decrease the appointments with you filling in the gaps actively and purposefully. There IS stuff you can do with this, absolutely. But there's also a lot an experienced therapist is going to bring to the table in those fields. I wouldn't go it alone. You don't know what you don't know, and I think you'll kick yourself later.

 

I think this is what I was aiming at in my post. Speech/language was so helpful for helping me learn how to help my daughter. Actually, I wasn't even thinking about my son, who was nearly non-verbal on his 3rd birthday- maybe 20 unintelligible words. For him, ST was absolutely essential. I had exasperated myself trying every trick in the book that I knew about to facilitate his speech but it just wasn't coming. But I digress. My daughter was already bilingual, fluent in two languages by the time she was seen. But there were some very peculiar aspects to her language that I couldn't get past until we worked with a professional. After picking up various tools from the SLP, we got to a point where I could continue on without the extra help.

[PeterPan]

Well there's something to what your dh is saying. $600 for an evaluation????? Wow. Just wow. I understand it's expensive where you live, but that's a lot of money. That sure better be a lot of hours and multiple evaluations by multiple therapists.

 

That chaos would concern me. That doesn't bode well for the results you'd get in therapy. Those big places can have big turnover in therapists and be poorly run. Best as I can tell, therapists like to get out of those situations and on their own as soon as they can.

 

To find a therapist, either get recommendations from people you know or look by technique. If you want Interactive Metronome, then look on their search/practitioner locator. And when you find one good therapist, they usually know others in town. I already suggested to you to email/talk with the person who is most qualified in PROMPT. Many kids needing PROMPT are on the spectrum, so it means that person is seeing lots of kids getting the *other* therapies you're looking for.

[wapiti]

Is there a listing like the COVD but for therapists? :bigear:

For OT you can start here http://www.spdfoundation.net/directory/index.html though i'm not entirely sure how reliable this list is

[peacefully]

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[NittanyJen]

one reason I was afraid to look into gymnastics early on was dd's low tone. Her PT had said she might be more prone to injury due to the extra flexibility. I wonder whether the same would apply to karate.

 

We incorporated gymnastics and swimming as part of DS's PT plan because of his low tone and anxiety and coordination issues. His coach was fantastic and worked closely with him even though he was in a neurotypical class. The physical therapist stayed on top of what he was working on and having trouble with in gymnastics and personally taught the first two and a half years of swimming. Now at 7/almost 8, he has been in a separate swimming program for a year and is thriving on it, loves gymnastics, which is no longer under close supervision (same coach though, who knows the PT, and they know I communicate as well) and the PT has evolved to 3-4 month check-ins with a primarily home-based program. DS remains very motivated to do all of his exercises, because he wants to conquer his fears and play like a regular kid, faster and stronger and no broken bones (none so far, either! He is healthy!). He still has some issues, but we are super happy with how this is progressing.

 

I would never have skipped the early years of PT, as they were crucial to my and his understanding of how he works, and his early successes. There was more going on there than just playing with him more; he needed specific corrections that people who have gone to school know how to diagnose and work on sequentially with his gait, hip strength, etc.

 

I would also not have skipped his early ST. He graduated sooner than I am happy about, but I am glad he got those early gains in a specific manner.

[jenncslp]

My dd is 10, has Down Syndrome and a lot of sensory issues. We tried OT, and she hated it and it became a power struggle each time. We ended up starting a "My Gym" class (combined games, exercise, gymnastics, music, etc.) and therapeutic horseback riding...they have helped more than anything. I will not go back to OT.

 

I am also a Pediatric Speech-Language Pathologist. I work with a number of homeschool families (I offer evals and then a home based therapy program, where they can choose from weekly, bi-weekly or monthly sessions) and my honest opinion is that the most progress comes from parents committed to do therapy activities on a consistent basis.

 

Jenn

[merry gardens]

How much has OT and ST alone helped your SN child?

 

Could you have done similar if you had a detailed evaluation for both, then used the results to help guide you as to what areas to hit on? There are many materials on the market to guide one with OT and ST (in comparison to VT).

 

How do you know if your dc is to complex to try this yourself?...I guess I'm wondering if OT/ST is as life changing as VT was or if swimming/martial arts, etc. can fill that need for some children?

 

What kind of growth/change did you see through OT/ST? Have you tried outside activities? Can you compare the results from the two?

....

Michele, you may have phrased this a little backwards. :D For MOST children, outside activities and play accomplish what OT/ST/VT (and other therapies) accomplish. I would even dare to say that perfectly normal, healthy children would likely develop physical and behavior problems if they didn't do at least a certain level of activities.

 

Our dc are not too complicated for us to play with them and enroll them in normal childhood activities; HOWEVER, if we try those things and the child can't cope or the problems don't resolve, then the child may require additional evaluations and therapies from qualified professionals. (And... in an ideal world...we'd always find affordable professionals with the right expertise and experience to catch whatever is going on with our children and fix it. :lol:)

 

Speech therapy:

I did my son's speech therapy at home. I'm very frustrated now that early on two different speech therapists told me ds didn't qualify for further speech therapy. :glare: It gave me a false sense of security and even the one who caught his phonemic awareness problem didn't catch the extent of it. (Since that time I've looked at that report's results and now I think she may put his raw scores in the wrong percentile!) Both SLP were really nice, and I thought they knew what they were doing, but I didn't know enough at the time to raise all the issues that I'd raise with them now.

 

We saw a third speech therapist who evaluated my dd for her lisp. I knew better what to look for in a therapist and what questions to raise. That therapist and I talked about therapy at home/vs in the office, and we're doing things at home right now, (partly due to cost, partly due to loose and missing teeth, partly because the SLP was very pregnant when we saw her.) That therapist was willing to work with us, even though my dd wouldn't qualify for therapy with the school district--and if that third therapist had seen my ds years ago, she would have worked with my son and known what to do for him.

 

Vision Therapy:

We've done some vt exercises at home. I didn't think he really had eye issues, but since he has reading problems I threw those exercises in with our homeschooling. Only recently he went for a vt eval, and while we're still waiting for formal results, he did not show any tracking or convergence problems.

 

Occupational Therapy:

I'm guessing that the vt report will suggest that ds get an OT evaluation. We need to find a really good professional who really knows what to look for and who listens to my concerns--and who knows how to catch and address the underlying problem(s). For the most part, ds comes across as a "normal child"--and if he'd gone for an OT evaluation as soon as I noticed problems, it might not have been very helpful. One our own at home we've done a lot for his handwriting and other issues. He's made some good progress already just doing the things at home that we've been doing.

[Laura Corin]

I don't know how things would have turned out otherwise, but this is what we did:

 

Calvin (coordination delays/SID) was in OT from age 4 1/2 to 7 1/2. At that point we moved somewhere which had no OT available. His previous OT had not signed him off - she definitely felt there was more work to do. We put him into three hours of martial arts a week, which continued until he was thirteen. He also had swimming lessons once a week for about six months a year. He joined scouts and did all the camping/craft that that involved. We didn't work much with him at home, beyond lots of handwriting practice and making sure that he learned to type.

 

He is now a bit klutzy, but not otherwise very impaired. He's not very good at most sport, but joins in and isn't distressed by it. He enjoys long-distance running. His handwriting is more-or-less legible but slow - he has special permission to use a keyboard for exams.

 

Best wishes with your decisions,

 

Laura

[LittleIzumi]

Michele, you may have phrased this a little backwards. :D For MOST children, outside activities and play accomplish what OT/ST/VT (and other therapies) accomplish. I would even dare to say that perfectly normal, healthy children would likely develop physical and behavior problems if they didn't do at least a certain level of activities.

 

Our dc are not too complicated for us to play with them and enroll them in normal childhood activities; HOWEVER, if we try those things and the child can't cope or the problems don't resolve, then the child may require additional evaluations and therapies from qualified professionals. (And... in an ideal world...we'd always find affordable professionals with the right expertise and experience to catch whatever is going on with our children and fix it. :lol:)

 

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Very good point. Dd is gaining much from gymnastics, but I do not know if this would have been possible without her 1.5 years of therapy (developmental & OT) plus energy work (her therapist was *floored* at the change from that) first. The gymnastics seems to be addressing the lingering bits that could definitely have benefited from more OT, but she wasn't bad enough to qualify through the state any more.