Joyce Swann & Accelerated Education

[Linda...inOwasso]

Michele's post stirred up some good questions for me. Not about scheduling, but about our home education goals. When I read some of Joyce's articles I learned that her expectations were for her dc to complete master's degrees in the same amount of time most U.S. children complete high school.

 

I have no doubts that it can be done... but now my mind is swirling with "should it be done?" I want to provide my dd's with the BEST education possible, which until now, I thought I had figured out. But Joyce Swann's goals have me puzzled.

 

I never planned to do the minimum required -- in fact, just the opposite. I've always wanted an accelerated track for dd's so that we could make better use of our time and be able to study more things. What never occurred to me was pursuing higher education (degrees) while still at home.

 

College was a wonderful time in my life. I met life-long friends, enjoyed the environment, learned how to live on my own as an adult, etc... Even though I could get my dd's through college while still at home, would I want to?!

 

I'm rambling... obviously this thought has disrupted my brain's regularly scheduled programming. If you want to share your thoughts I'd love to hear them!!

[WyoSylvia]

I had the same reaction. I have the same attitude toward homeschooling as you do, I am excited to see how far I can take my ds. I would love to get a front and center view of his college learning, that sounded exciting but I wonder, especially about the age at which she gets them through, what are the consequences?

 

Here are some questions that I think should be asked:

• How much whole-person or experiential subjects does one wish to cover in their school and with the Swann system are those included? e.g. sensory manipulatives for exploration for the young child, art, foreign language experimentation (These all come from what I happen to be exploring right now so I hope they make sense to others.)
  
• Are important topics or skills getting short-shrift? The trivium and its acknowledgment of age-specific abilities comes to mind - does the child get to explore history etc., during their rhetoric stage?
  
• Are the students concrete on items that need repetition at various ages, again, history comes to mind?
  
• Can a child, or even their parent, know what a child of that age should pursue in college? (or is it implied that the children keep attending higher education?)
  
• Do they have any fun?

I would love to hear other people's takes on this topic as well. I will be watching this thread.

[rafiki]

.

[Greta]

I was thinking about this as I was drifting off to sleep last night! I want to give my dd the best academic foundation that I can, but it's never even occurred to me before to want her to start higher education early. There's a lot more to the college experience than just the academic side of it. It really changed my life and opened new doors to me, in many ways other than academic ones. My dream for my dd (which I realize may not turn out to be her dream!) is for her to spend part of her undergraduate years as an exchange student in Europe. There's just so much more to higher education than classroom learning. And I think she will get more out of the experience if she's older and emotionally ready for it. In fact, I wouldn't mind her taking a year off between high school and college. On a trip to a wildlife sanctuary with our Girl Scouts troop, we were given a tour by a young woman who was doing just that -- taking a year off after high school and before starting college to live and work full time as an unpaid volunteer at this wildlife preserve. I was just in awe! I would be more proud of my dd for doing that (personally) than for completing her degree early. There's so much more to the experience of education than just having completed the degree.

 

ETA: That said, I'm all for academic rigor! I hope to give my dd a very challenging high school education that will prepare her for college better far better than I was prepared!

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

"should it be done?"

That depends on the child in question. The "best education possible" is not a one size fits all goal.

 

It would be very wrong for me to come on this board and say, "My 6 year old just read The Crucible. All these other 6 year olds reading easy chapter books are way way behind." It is equally wrong, IMO, for a mom of an older child to ignore or chide a mom of a younger child working out of the same curriculum as her older.

 

I remember when dd was just a little baby and started recognizing words, someone said to me, "What will she learn when she is 5?" I will never forget the ridiculousness of that moment. I even made a point to find this person last year when my daughter was 5 and told her about all the wonderful things my daughter was learning last year.

 

I have a kid that could complete college early. That is her choice. She will have to at least have college COURSES early, but whether or not she matriculates early is entirely up to her and her personal goals. If you have never met a 10 year old who *needs* to be in college working towards a degree, it is hard to understand the situation. My own child is not very academically motivated, and I don't foresee the need for her, although she sat in on her first lecture at the community college at 4 years old, and is welcome there almost anytime.

 

There is nothing I did to make my child this way. I have gotten a lot of reactions of disappointment from parents looking to "make their baby smarter" when I would not give them my "magic formula".

 

I think Joyce is an inspiration to those of us who might have to go through this, that it can be done successfully. I don't agree with setting goals for any child way way in advance.

[Greta]

If you have never met a 10 year old who *needs* to be in college working towards a degree, it is hard to understand the situation.

 

Interesting point. I guess that is hard for me to imagine since it's just not where my dd is at. Thanks for bringing it up.

[michaeljenn]

I have not read the other replies yet, but here is my 2 cents.

 

At first, I thought that getting them as far as I could the sooner I could, was the way to go. Then I realized it was more of a pride issue for me:tongue_smilie:.. you know... "my kids are already a sophmore in college and they are only 14 years old" type of thing. Kind of a "proving to others" how great homeschool works!!

 

But, I have come full circle. I am not in any hurry to rush my children at all. I want them to take it slow and enjoy their High School and College years! I just don't see any reason to rush them along. Would anyone want to hire an 18yo for an entry level position? It just seems like the maturity would not be there no matter how much schooling they had???!!

[Jenny in Florida]

Here are some questions that I think should be asked:

 

• How much whole-person or experiential subjects does one wish to cover in their school and with the Swann system are those included? e.g. sensory manipulatives for exploration for the young child, art, foreign language experimentation (These all come from what I happen to be exploring right now so I hope they make sense to others.)

• Are important topics or skills getting short-shrift? The trivium and its acknowledgment of age-specific abilities comes to mind - does the child get to explore history etc., during their rhetoric stage?

• Are the students concrete on items that need repetition at various ages, again, history comes to mind?

• Can a child, or even their parent, know what a child of that age should pursue in college? (or is it implied that the children keep attending higher education?)

• Do they have any fun?

I would love to hear other people's takes on this topic as well. I will be watching this thread.

 

Okay, we didn't do the "Swann system." In fact, I'd never heard of them until we were well on our way. And I never set out to "push" my kids into college early. I started at the local community college part-time at 16, and I guess in the back of my mind I kind of assumed our kids would go more or less the same route.

 

My daughter started doing kindergarten work early, when she was four, mostly because I couldn't find pre-K materials and she seemed ready for the kindergarten stuff. She had a light schedule, alternating lots of outside activities (first a two-morning a week local preschool, then assorted outings with a local homeschool group) with short "desk work" sessions at the dining room table. We read aloud a lot in the afternoons. She dabbled in both American Sign Language and Spanish. We took summers mostly off, doing just enough workbook stuff each day to keep her from getting bored. She kept up more or less that schedule for the first two or three years and was finished 2nd grade by the time she was 6.

 

From that point on, once we started getting more serious about schoolwork, she routinely finished 1.5 - 2 grades worth of work each academic year. She continued to do at least weekly park days with the homeschool group for another couple of years, as well as an assortment of fun and enrichment activities and spent most of her summers hanging out at the pool. She participated in Sunday school and youth group at our church, did lots of community theatre (her particular interest), read lots for fun, had sleepovers with friends, wasted lots of time on computer games, spent hours in her room memorizing her favorite Brodway soundtracks, sang with two local choirs, went to many, many stage shows and concerts, etc.

 

Academically, she read many great books and Great Books; covered biology, astronomy and chemistry (including full lab series for bio and chem); took a bunch of online honors classes; studied Latin, Spanish and German; explored some of her interests (course in archaeology, comparative religion, theatre and philosophy); earned credits in music and art appreciation and history; went on field trips . . .

 

By the time she was 12, she had earned enough credits to justify a high school diploma, and it was clear she was getting bored at home.

 

She applied to an early entrance program in another state, was accepted and started classes there in August of 2007. She is now 13 and home for the summer after a terrific freshman year. She made friends, sang with a couple of vocal groups, got good grades, worked on a couple of theatrical productions, and earned lots of credits. In fact, she is currently on track to earn junior standing by the middle of her sophomore year.

 

Even assuming she takes the full four years to earn her degree--which we're strongly encouraging her to do--she will almost definitely have her master's degree about the same time her local friends are graduating from high school.

 

She's having a wonderful time.

 

So, the acceleration is working out very well for her, but it is driven almost entirely by her own focus and motivation. I absolutely would not advocate this pace for all or even many students.

[8filltheheart]

Several thoughts......

 

First and foremost, I would never attempt to duplicate in schedule or content anyone's homeschool. When you find your rhythm and teaching methods.....those are what are going to provide the greatest success for your family. Simply b/c it produces X results in someone else's household does NOT mean it will produce anything even resembling X in your own.

 

Secondly, my goals for my children are to educate them completely and totally where they are. Period. If I have an accelerated child, I teach them the skills they need to be developing. If I have a struggling child.....ditto. I actually even have 1 child who is both (depending on the subject!!)

 

Goals should not be restricted to grade level.....they should be child dependent.

 

My personal thoughts on how far is too far......well, again it is child dependent. Adulthood is forever. Childhood once. However, some kids are self-driven. My oldest is only 18, is currently taking differential equations in summer school and after this class is only 7 hrs shy of being a college jr. It has been totally his own motivation to do this. He knows what he wants and has mapped out a plan to get there and is very determined.

 

Our 16 yos is like a floundering fish when compared to our oldest. He vascillates all over the place about what he wants to study/do in the future. He is actually much more intelligent than our oldest however advancing him would not be to his benefit. He is emotionally immature and needs to be in a typical high school setting.

 

The thread about looping gives me the same reaction as this one......it is more important to find what works for you and your individual chiildren.

[Jenny in Florida]

. . . that my son, although certainly equally bright and academically capable, probably will not go the extreme acceleration route. It just doesn't suit his personality.

 

He is very accelerated in some subjects (doing high school algebra this year at 10 years old, for example), but he tends to be happier doing more rather than going faster. He's reading well above grade level, for example, but is thoroughly enjoying reading lots and lots of "easy" books for fun. So, although some of the books I assigned this year are typically read in high school and he had no trouble with them, the books he reads for fun tend to be targeted at 9-12 year olds. But he's read about 100 of them so far since August.

 

He is also very involved in outside activities. His two primary ones are dance and choir, both of which are time consuming and demanding. He also does theatre and model rocketry. So, he keeps busy.

 

I suspect he will move somewhat more slowly academically, although, if you had asked me when my daughter was the same age I wouldn't have thought she would be ready to head out of the nest quite so early, either. So, I guess we'll just wait and see.

[OneRoomHomeSchool]

I just posted a book called No Regrets by Alexandra Swann on the sale board. It was a good read. ;)

[nmoira]

We do short school days year round and DD self paces for most subjects. She's accelerated because she started out "ahead" (e.g. we didn't have to teach reading or pre-school/K math) and because she picks up concepts quickly. She's not slowing down. It's not exactly the acceleration aspect that makes me uncomfortable with Swann's approach, but rather the A-to-Z-ness of the approach. I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of a child traveling along a straight line towards.... what? That DD is "ahead" gives us the luxury of time. She can take three languages instead of one or two; we can take two weeks for every history lesson to read an historical novel or other related literature (we're almost done Sutcliff's Arthur Trilogy). There's nothing wrong with a bit of whim. :)

[WyoSylvia]

Follow-up question then. It appears that many of you with experience with this are saying that you basically disagree with the Swann GOAL (implicit in their design) of finishing masters by that age, or have I misunderstood?

 

Great stories BTW, what a fascinating read. :lurk5:

 

It sounds like those of you who have children who are accomplishing an accelerated education are experiencing so much of what I am hoping for for my ds.

[Sarah CB]

I have thought about acceleration as well and I know it would be more than possible but I think that with a classical education we would miss a lot by accelerating - especially in regards to history, literature and science.

 

The skill based subjects (grammar, spelling, math, writing, reading ability, etc.) can easily be accelerated without missing anything.

 

The content subjects (IMHO) cannot. My dd is ahead in math and seems to have a real gift in that direction. She may end up doing college courses in math (and possibly second languages) while she's still at home. However, I couldn't imagine cutting our history cycles short or spending less time on literature. I'm really looking forward to the rhetoric stage and to all of the amazing things we're doing to read, discuss, and write about. I really want dd to have the opportunity to go out and apprentice somewhere or get a taste of real work in an area of interest before she begins a full slate of college courses. I think that I'm going to need all of those years to fully do justice to history and literature (among other things). I'm really inspired by what we have in store for us. I look at TWTM recs for rhetoric and I can't wait to tackle that with my kids - but I also know that I can wait and that the work we do in grammar and logic will really prepare them to be able to fully engage during the rhetoric stage.

[8filltheheart]

. I really want dd to have the opportunity to go out and apprentice somewhere or get a taste of real work in an area of interest before she begins a full slate of college courses.

 

As children become adults, it often becomes a matter of what they want for themselves and their vision of their future. We can offer opinions but they may disagree. ;)

[Sarah CB]

As children become adults, it often becomes a matter of what they want for themselves and their vision of their future. We can offer opinions but they may disagree. ;)

 

Right...but I look at my role as the facilitator. So, while she's still in my house and in my "school" she'll do certain things. What she does will look different than what my other kids do as all of them are unique, but there are certain basic requirements that I want to see filled during their school years at home.

 

I'm not sure how having volunteer or paid work in an area of interest as a part of high school fits into your comment...??? Schools in our area require a certain amount of volunteer hours in order for students to graduate, I'm requiring the same thing except that I'm asking my kids to spend those hours (paid or unpaid) in an area that they feel could potentially be a career for them later.

[Linda...inOwasso]

Michele: I'm not judging or critizing Joyce Swann. The woman has accomplished more than I ever will. But, clearly one of her goals in educating her dc was to see them through the completion of a master's degree. I think that's a great thing by the way. I just never thought of it before reading about her. Her story is making me re-evaluate what my goals are for my dc. And the only thing I knew about Calvert before was that they made spelling cd's! After reviewing their website, it looks like an awesome curriculum. Since you've used it before can you tell me: does it cover everything for K - 8th? What are some options for 9th - 12th? And, did you use the ATS?

 

GretaLynne: YES, YES, YES! Your thoughts are exactly where mine are. I'm a firm believer in rigorous academics -- no question. However, I would love to take trips to exotic places and spend time volunteering with my dc. I want to expose them to so many things in life... different cultures, traditions, and experiences that my first thought was that I couldn't get that done if they were taking college classes so early. They have their whole adult life to work and I don't want to give up a second of their short childhoods.

 

Academy of Jedi Arts: I understand academically gifted children -- I'm educating 2 of them. My oldest dd attended a private school for gifted children at a top university campus for 3 years before I decided to home school. My post wasn't meant to compare, criticize or judge but to share that I'd never thought of including a bachelor's or master's degree in my dc's home education. I am interested to hear other's perspectives. I have a B.S. and an M.A. so I know that many children are quite capable of doing the work. What I'm tossing around in my head is whether that would be the best use of what little time I have with them.

 

Another poster mentioned all the "other aspects of college life" and THAT's what I'm pondering --- not the academics. My higher education was good, but even more educational than the academics was the time I got to spend getting to know people from very different backgrounds than my own. Learning to navigate through a new city without mom & dad's help. Realizing that I'd over-spent my budget by the 15th of the month and suffering the consequences with a week's worth of Ramen Noodles for dinner. Those things were invaluable to me and a wonderful transition into the "real world".

 

Academics are important. But there is so much more to a meaningful life than a degree and a job. My dc are still young and I'm just trying to sort out for myself how to make the most of my time with them.

[8filltheheart]

Right...but I look at my role as the facilitator. So, while she's still in my house and in my "school" she'll do certain things. What she does will look different than what my other kids do as all of them are unique, but there are certain basic requirements that I want to see filled during their school years at home.

 

I'm not sure how having volunteer or paid work in an area of interest as a part of high school fits into your comment...??? Schools in our area require a certain amount of volunteer hours in order for students to graduate, I'm requiring the same thing except that I'm asking my kids to spend those hours (paid or unpaid) in an area that they feel could potentially be a career for them later.

 

 

I didn't gather that you were aluding to during high school in your OP. I misinterpreted it mean as in working a job between high school and college. Not that is a bad thing!!! For many people that is the right choice. My only point was that many children become very vocal about classes, goals, etc as they approach adulthood. Our vision may be very different from theirs.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Please, please do not think I am picking an argument with you in any way by saying this. I am relatively new here and you guys don't know me yet. I think this is an interesting discussion and want to put a little different spin on it, tis all :)

 

My higher education was fun, but even more important than the academics was the time I got to spend getting to know people from very different backgrounds than my own. Learning to navigate through a new city without mom & dad's help. Realizing that I'd over-spent my budget by the 15th of the month and suffering the consequences with a week's worth of Ramen Noodles for dinner. Those things were invaluable to me and I don't want my dc to miss out on any of them.

 

At what point does this begin to sound like some of the arguments we get as homeschoolers? What about prom? Don't they need to be with kids their own age? Anecdote after anecdote about all the great and wonderful experiences other people had in public school and the things our children are "missing out" on. These comments aren't made from people who homeschool or have regular contact with homeschoolers. They are made by people who have little to no experience about what homeschooling is really like.

 

Our children might not have the same experiences as the kids in public school do, but the public school kids do not have some of the experiences many of our kids do. Same goes for early college, in my experience. It's an individual choice and life is full of trade-offs.

[Wee Pip]

I always thought accelerated ed kids were overworked, unsocialized kids whose love of learning had been stomped out. Not so!!! From the articles, it sounds like the Swann dc had plenty of time for free exploration (and playdates and park days, etc.) The kids were required to work without interruption for 3 hours. Imagine being done by 11:30am! And yet how many times have I pushed further and further into the day because my goals weren't planned and I allowed interruptions to creep in, and because in my heart I kept thinking, "well, I should really let them have fun, because I don't want to squash their love of learning..." Swann did give them a full education while still allowing them lots of time. Also, what an amazing gift to have - a full college education by the end of your teen years so that you can pursue anything you want. If you want a college education experience, you can by all means, enter yourself back into college and earn another master's degree with a different focus.

 

There is another thing to consider: where is the future of education headed? I see public schooled & homeschooled teens being "dual enrolled" in both college and school. Some colleges allow kids to work toward an associate degree while they work through high school credits. You are beginning to see more kids with college experience in high school than kids that only stayed in high school until age 18. I venture that high school is going away, and kids will begin college sooner. And I may even venture to say that high school AND college in-school courses will go away to be replaced with Internet courses. It may not happen overnight, but I believe it will happen.

[Jenny in Florida]

At what point does this begin to sound like some of the arguments we get as homeschoolers? What about prom? Don't they need to be with kids their own age? Anecdote after anecdote about all the great and wonderful experiences other people had in public school and the things our children are "missing out" on. These comments aren't made from people who homeschool or have regular contact with homeschoolers. They are made by people who have little to no experience about what homeschooling is really like.

 

Our children might not have the same experiences as the kids in public school do, but the public school kids do not have some of the experiences many of our kids do. Same goes for early college, in my experience. It's an individual choice and life is full of trade-offs.

 

Oh wow, thank you so much for saying this! I've been thinking for the last few hours about how and whether to respond to these comments, and you stepped in and said it so well.

 

All I could think of to do was to babble more about my daughter's experiences and how she is doing pretty much all the things the other poster mentioned and is happier at college than she had been for the two previous years at home. But you managed to make a much more general point.

 

Thanks!

[8filltheheart]

You are beginning to see more kids with college experience in high school than kids that only stayed in high school until age 18.

 

I'm not certain that statement is true. I would really like to know the stats. I really believed huge numbers of kids were involved in dual enrollment until I went for my ds's college orientation. I was in a meeting with other parents of kids in accepted into the honors program. I was absolutely shocked at how few kids had been involved in dual enrollment programs.

 

This yr our 2nd oldest is in high school. When we were going through the admissions process and mentioned the probability of future dual enrollment, it was highly discouraged.

 

All in all.....a very eye opening experience for me since our ds thrived in that environment. But.....again, we only knew 2 other homeschooled students IRL that took any classes via dual enrollment and both only took 2.

[Sahamamama]

I will go so far to say that this is not an appropriate goal for a typically developing child, because of what has to be cut out of their lives to accommodate the academic acceleration.

 

It is an appropriate goal for some gifted students because you want to keep them challenged and enjoying their school work, not bored. I think most kids would lose out on the possibility of a beautiful childhood because it is too focused on academics.

 

jmho

 

:iagree:

[nmoira]

The skill based subjects (grammar, spelling, math, writing, reading ability, etc.) can easily be accelerated without missing anything.

 

The content subjects (IMHO) cannot. My dd is ahead in math and seems to have a real gift in that direction. She may end up doing college courses in math (and possibly second languages) while she's still at home. However, I couldn't imagine cutting our history cycles short or spending less time on literature.

I don't agree that someone has to go through 12 years worth of sequenced reading in literature or history to be well educated. If this were the case, TWEM would start with Seuss and Beatrix Potter. :)

[8filltheheart]

Follow-up question then. It appears that many of you with experience with this are saying that you basically disagree with the Swann GOAL (implicit in their design) of finishing masters by that age, or have I misunderstood?

QUOTE]

 

 

Honestly, I can't imagine many kids mentally capable of writing a masters thesis in their teenage yrs. I think you are discussing a very tiny percentage of kids.

 

Like I posted earlier......my only goal is to work with each child where they are. I have no idea where that will lead over the course of 13 yrs. I also don't push huge amounts of academics in primary grades b/c I want my kids to spend the majority of their days exploring nature, in imaginative play, and romping around.

 

My kids don't sit still for 3 hours of academics until probably 4th grade (though my current 3rd grader is......she is the only one of my kids to work this hard academically in 3rd grade)

[Kay in Cal]

 

At what point does this begin to sound like some of the arguments we get as homeschoolers? What about prom? Don't they need to be with kids their own age? Anecdote after anecdote about all the great and wonderful experiences other people had in public school and the things our children are "missing out" on. These comments aren't made from people who homeschool or have regular contact with homeschoolers. They are made by people who have little to no experience about what homeschooling is really like.

 

Our children might not have the same experiences as the kids in public school do, but the public school kids do not have some of the experiences many of our kids do. Same goes for early college, in my experience. It's an individual choice and life is full of trade-offs.

 

Thank you! I have one who may very well end up in college "early"--maybe he'll live at home, maybe not. But I expect he'll have those same great growing-up experiences wherever he is. When I was in school the dorm I lived in housed freshmen and early admission students. I lived next door to a 14 year old Junior and an 18 year old who was finishing his Masters. They seemed happy, the 18 year old was moving off to start a PhD program the next year. I thought it was kind of cool.

 

I have no idea what this particular program promotes, but for the parents of most profoundly gifted children it's not about "pushing", it's about letting kids find their own pace. I see enough other kids to know that my 6 year old is (as a friend say) "just a few standard deviations outside the norm." He is just... different. But I get to have other amazing conversations with him, even if they aren't the norm. And that's OK. I love him just where he is, even if that is in college before his peers. Kids need different things. Isn't that one reason many of us homeschool?

[Linda...inOwasso]

Academy of Jedi Arts: I appreciate your spin! And you're absolutely right. Your comments sum up my thoughts perfectly -- I want to educate my dc at home until they're 17 or 18 and then I hope they will head off to a great college or join the peace corp or pursue whatever their heart desires. Like Momof7 (always a voice of wisdom & reason) said: my dc may well have different ideas about their future than I do! I guess what this discussion has helped me realize (at least at this point in our journey) is that while I do want to educate my children at home right now, I *hope* they'll choose to attend a university and live on campus and have that experience in their lives.

 

Jenny: I'm thrilled to hear that your dd is happy and thriving! I love the freedom to choose what is best for our children. And I love having this board available to host such interesting discussions as this one!

[Strawberry Queen]

I've enjoyed this thread:) Something that I am finding interesting is the cultural difference of college in the US as opposed to Canada.(where I'm from) We have a much different college system with few scholarships. It is uncommon for people to automatically go off to college. (which is kind of what I'm hearing-I may be wrong)

Of course there are those that do, especially from rural areas. It's just not as prevalent. We also don't really have junior colleges, so doing college courses while in high school is rare. (except for those who are gifted).

 

So for my children, I'm looking at helping them to achieve their goals and if they want to attend college then it's up to them. I want to give them the best education for them individually while still making sure that they will be a balanced person and an asset to society.

I also have to do what's best for them now and let the future take care of itself. It's way too hard to plan that far in advance.:)

 

I

[Peela]

I find it all fascinating and I can imagine my now almost 14yo accelerating herself through school if she had been started with a package curriculum at a young age. I am certainly in no position to say its not a valid option for many people.

But as mumof7 says, its a rare child able to write a master's thesis in highschool. That's where the WTM "stages of development" comes in, even if it is a somewhat contrived structure of developmental stages, it is somewhat accurate, too.....it takes maturity and integration and life experience, to some extent, to have a) motivation and b) ability to perform, to analyse, to think at that higher level. Even though "that higher level" may be a lower level, at least in some areas, than it was 150 years ago (when I understand being fluent in Greek and Latin translations- including from English - was a pre-requisite to university).

Its going to be a possibility for some students though, and I must admit I am slightly envious...but our system here in Australia is different, too. Not sure if it would work here.

[Rebecca in VA]

I read a number of Joyce Swann's articles years ago in Practical Homeschooling, though I haven't read "No Regrets." One of Mrs. Swann's reasons for advancing her children quickly is that she didn't know how long homeschooling would stay legal (remember, this was back in the early 1980s -- the homeschool pioneer days). I don't think she deliberately made a plan to get them through quickly, but when she saw that the children were capable of getting their work done, she kept on and on. The children had almost no holidays or vacation time. They lived out in the country (in New Mexico, I think) where there was little to do. She mentioned that her first child, Alexandra, took ballet lessons for a year, but the teacher didn't work out and it was too far to drive, so she stopped. There was no other mention of outside activities, like music lessons or theatre or debate club. They don't seem to have taken interesting vacations.

 

If you do internet searches now for the Swann children, you'll find very little other than Mrs. Swann's old articles about acceleration. That's kind of weird, since you would think that people who were capable of getting their master's degree at a very young age would be highly successful in their chosen careers. They seem to have burned out early.

[Laura Corin]

For me, the key is: is this a prescription for all children, no matter what their abilities, or is it an adaptation for an exceptional child? And is the acceleration at the expense of intellectual enquiry and breadth?

 

Calvin is taking the UK equivalent of (US) SAT-II biology in November. He's 11. Will Hobbes do the same? I've no idea at present. It's been a great level for Calvin, but we wouldn't have done it if it hadn't been a fascinating learning experience for him (and for me, I might add). Taking this exam early leads us to the same level of chemistry exam in a year or two, then physics after that. By staggering them, we have the time to absorb, to discuss, to have fun with them, rather than cramming for university entrance exams all at one time. We'll be adding in maths and arts exams too, over the next five years.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

[sarahberry]

I read the book and really enjoyed reading it. I never once got the impression that the children were pushed or didn't find their lives joyous. They only studied for a few hours each day Monday through Friday and according to what I read there was a large emphasis on history and language in their household. Also from what I read the mother never intended to push her ten children through but they just ended up working through each grade. The mother, according to the book, also didn't accpet a half job from the children so she made sure they fully understood everything and really dedicated herself to their studies. The Author of this book speaks quite a bit about many joys of her childhood and family life in this book so if you haven't read it perhaps it is something worth reading.

 

As for acceleration, in our home, it is happening. It isn't at all because I intended it but because we just have a son who is very gifted. He will likely finish with High School by twelve and this is with me slowing him down....and it isn't an easy job. We school year round seven days a week for a couple hours a day. This was my son's choice and he becomes upset if we don't do school even on holidays. Perhaps the Swann children really enjoyed learning and taking part in their school. I suppose, for many of us, it isn't always easy to think that children can really love it that this is what they want to spend a lot of time doing and perhaps more so if we had bad experiences in our schooling etc...

 

As for the point another poster raised about why you don't hear about the swann children now...do you suppose maybe they just want to live quiet private lives? Being highly successful in one's life and career doesn't mean that one should or even wants to have their image and story plastered everywhere for everyone to see. Not everyone who does something many consider extroidinary want others to pry into their lives. I know I wouldn't.

[Osmosis Mom]

I haven't read all the replies, but like everyone else then I was also impressed initially by the accomplishments. However, then I read about their graduate work and as I recall then it was correspondence. That just doesn't fly with me. We just finished the college-application process and there is a huge, huge gap between schools and their expectations of how to graduate and the student body found at schools. Doing it online would in any case never be the same.

 

I am not trying to downplay adults getting an online degree, but I am not sure it is the most challenging way for a young adult.

 

I also really think too much structure will inhibit personal growth and opportunity for exploration. 3 hours a day is not much, but every single day of your life (except Sunday) does seem to inevitably reconfigure how the child perceives knowledge.

[rafiki]

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[rafiki]

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[sarahberry]

"They schooled similar to how we do, taking off weekends, holidays, when daddy takes his vacation days, and they had from 11:30 on to do whatever. We've lived in the country and in the city, quality of life is a personal choice, not dictated by where one lives. Not everyone who homeschools desires outside activities or fancy vacations. We lead a simple life by choice. You don't have to spend a lot of money, time in a car, be in a lot of activities, or travel to have a close family, happy children, and lots of memories. Children are often over scheduled today and families just go, go go. We take time to explore our own area, be with nature, relax together in our own home, we are active together as a family focusing on a variety of activities they are more likely to carry into adulthood."

 

Although we do school everyday because ds really wants it (but if he didn't we wouldn't) I totally agree with this statement. We also live a pretty simple and plain lifestyle but we are a big and happy family with a lot of love amd joy in our home!

 

I think correespondnece courses and the likes can be very challenging. Almost everyone one that I have every taken has been more difficult than any I have actually attended physically. A lot is expected and you really get judged on your work and effort unlike in a lot of physical campu courses where other factors such as attendance, class particpation, and such are a part of your grade. I personally love online and correspondence type courses but it isn't for everyone. Some people really could not thrive with this and one really has to be self motivated and self disciplined.