Your son sounds in many ways like my own. I know that my son could do a lot more than I give him but he is one of four children so I have to draw some boundries on what I can and can't give. He just turned five but is going to finish third grade math this year with ease. This is lower than his level but my reason is that we are doing a full program of subjects and there is a lot of writing to do in many of the subjects. I want this year to be a lot about refining his writing skills as well as training him to work a little more independently (nescessary in our home because we have other children to work with). He writes fluently in cursive and I am working on bulding his endurance so when he is a seven or eight year old doing algebra and high school level subjects all aournd the board he will be able to keep up in writing as well as working with independence. This is just what I have to do though since there is little chance that I could play the role of secretary for him for much longer. Though it would be unwise to expect such a young child to work fully on his own it certainly is a good time to start training the child to work independently whether you have the luxory of sitting with your child all day or not. I can't really give advice on a math program to use. It highly depends on needs. I have tried many programs. My ds is such an amazing abstract thinker already that I prefer to use a very conrete curriculum with him at an accelerated pace. I know a lot of other parents of gifted children prefer quite the opposite though. I used to drive myself buggy trying to accomodate my ds's needs and preferences. I gave up trying that and just decided that like it or not he is going to have to get with a program that isn't going to burn me out! He was a very demanding baby who always needed constant stimulation night and day. He is still very needy but now he can fend for himself a lot more because he has the ability to read and comprehend at at least a middle school level or higher. I am surprised I didn't burn out already tryign to accomodate his serious need for materials and his drive to absorb information. This year I made a program for him that is both easy in some ways but very challengiing in others but he has to do it on my schedule because he is old enough to realize that the world isn't going to revolve around him. In a home with four children and growing it can't. Does he always like what I give him to do? No, but I do know what he needs and I also know that it is good for him to learn to do some things he doesn't like to do. I think that he is happy with this set up and if he doesn't find as much challenge one day in one subject he will find it in another. Gifted or not some day he is going to have to function in an average world such as when he goes to college and finds that things aren't made to accomodate him but rather he must sometimes yield to schedules adn agendas other than his own preferences. Or when he enters the working world and things are on terms not always his own or to his preferences. I guess for me I see that looking at the whole picture means educating a gifted child very well but at the same time preparing them to deal with the realities of life and those aren't alwasy goign to be as accomodating to the gifted person as we can make the world for our child in the home. It doesn't mean dumbing a child down or that a child is being held from reaching out to his full potential though. I don't think you are in the wrong to have your child do more written work than most five year olds...mine does, for sure. I can't say I insist he do every problem though on every page. If he knows it and it solid on the concept it wouldn't kill him to not do a few of the practice problems. Since we are doing a full program we don't always have time to do a whole page of problems but half is many times sufficient. If you are really doing a full program and not just a couple subjects then maybe it might be a bit much but I don't recollect you mentioning what else you all were doing in addition to the math. We are doing: Math English Grammar Literature Study Spelling Vocabulary Science History Art Music Religious Studies Foreign Language The grade ranges of the subjects are mostly 3-6 grades with a couple starting at 2 but will be up to beginning fourth at the end of the school year. This is a lot for many five year olds. I wondered for awhile if it was too much but my husband pointed out that it isn't fair to compare him to an average five year old so it isn't fair to have to same expectations in all areas of development as an average five year old, academically speaking, of course. In terms of emotional maturity I would say he is many ages. He is as comfortable acting younger than five as he is acting much older. I think this is common with gifted persons and a fact of life. It may seem odd that he does what seems impossible for most young children several years older than he is and then he still walks around with a stuffed animal or throws an occasional tantrum. I guess the key is moderation in all things as well as looking at the whole picture and how it will pan out in the long term.

Yes, we do know each other and I thought you'd have recognized me by now! I will email you.

To digress about you might find yourself amazed one day the things she will ask about at four tha tyou mihgt not have thought to hear from a youngster. F. asks stuff all the time that I never imagined I would discuss with a young child :) That is the way with bright children though :) As for some character building storybooks I would really reccomend a lot of the storybooks from Rod and staff books. We don't share the same religion but the values are much the same, as you once pointed out in an email, but even so I only had to occasionally change a word or two here and there. Most of the stories are family centered which show the children helping their parents and playing nice with each other etc... We bought most of the little jewel books thought them very wholesome, across the rose hedge with Aunt Merry is really wonderful, gone to the zoo and other stories, lessons from the clock-poems for children, and story time with grandma are really great stories that I would reccomend to anyone Christian or not. We also love Veggie Tales stories and the joy berry help me be good series. Ds will sneak the joy berry books from the library to read. Also Everyday Graces is another good character building book...I haven't used it yet but it will be used in a year or so. Sarah :)

Putting ear training and technique aside the most important thing to consider is that learning to play the violin incorrectly in terms of how it is held, posture, and wrist movements can cause physical injury. I played violin profrssionally for several years and during my conservatory years several violinist had to give up on their careers from injuries stemming from learnign to play incorrectly and ending up with carpel tunnel syndrome etc... A person most definitely teach themselve how to play most instruments though but one shoul dalways keep in mind the potential for injury if not played correctly. Sorry i can't reccomend any self-teaching programs though.

I assume you mean to read aloud? Some of what we enjoyed: Complete tales of Beatrix Potter Non-sense verse of Edward Lear All the Fairy Books by Andrew Lang Mr. Popper's Penguins Chocolate Fever Where the Sidewalk Ends A Light in the Attic Brambly Hedge (British series) Magic Tree House Complete Tales and Poems of Winnie the Pooh Ride a Cock Horse Hans Christian Anderson Pinnochio Alice in Wonderland Robert McCloskey Collection Paddington Bear Collection Just so stories Those are just a few. You might consider checking out Sonlight'sread aloud lists for P3/4, P4/5, K, and 1 as they have some really good read aloud reccomendations that are very much age appropriate. The Great Books Academy also has good lists for read alouds too. You can also check book adventure for more specific grade level and genre reccomendations. These lists are great but I wouldn't actually buy the Sonlight list...it will just tell you the order to read them in, pretty much. You can just look on their website and see what books they use at the levle and then either check them out from the library or get them cheaper somewhere else. I also had the same book you are reading and sold it. I agree with having to do a lot of pre-reading. FIAR was okay but your children might become nauseated with reading the same story over again the whole week...fiar is another book that is just sitting on my shelf that I read but ddidn't find useful for our family. At least with sonlight, veritas, winter's promise, and ambleside you ca pretty much pick somethign and not worry too much about content. On the other hand you can use controverisla content to teach which is often what we do in our home...because someday the kidlets will be facing things we have sheltered them to so they do need to be prepared for that time. I hope this helps :)

I think my posting was somehow ignored in all the posting about offensive material in R&S. As a Non-Christian, but definitely very religious, I have not had any problems with Rod and Staff. I have reviewed books 2-8 and have not found any propaganda....in fact of all the Christian curriculum privdors that I have looked at so far this is one of the least offensive less pushy that I have found in terms of beliefs. For any parts I do find objectable or offensive I simply place white stickers and write over it. I have found that this is quite easy to do and you still get the great grammar lessons. This isn't for everyone but for those who want R&S without certain things this is an option. It does require a little work but if you have several children you only do it once for all the kiddies to use the same books. You can do whatever you want to a book, for your own purposes, once you buy it, pretty much, so you can secularize it. There are lots of ways to make programs work for you but sometimes you do have to do a little work. I always figure that if a program is really the right one for my children and it is solid in the way I want it to be then it would surely be worth a little work on my part to edit when necessary. I don't use the workbooks for R&S though as they are actually more religious but if you want a workbook steck-vaughn's core skills in language arts is a good supplement and it is secular. You could always do R&S lessons and use the coreskills WB for the written exercises. I don't know about the upper grades but this can at least work through the middle grades. I hope this helps :) It isn't easy finding secular materials :) Sarah :)

I agree with the pp that starting with RS1 might be a good way to go if you are planning to use it anyway. If you want enrichment or hands-on activities you might think about the Critical thinking companies mathematical reasoning books and hands-on thinking skills. These materials are fun and high quality. I would use ithemonly as a supplement though but that is just my opinion. I hope this helps. Math bk level K: http://www.criticalthinking.com/getProductDetails.do?code=p&id=06906 math bk. level 1 http://www.criticalthinking.com/searchByNeed.do?categories=bs&subjects=m&code2=p&catalog3=p&gradeLevel=1&code=p&catalog2=p&x=19&y=14 Hands on thinking skills (manipulative activities) http://www.criticalthinking.com/getProductDetails.do?code=p&id=04901 Building critical thinking skills: http://www.criticalthinking.com/getProductDetails.do?code=p&id=05231

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I love R&S and I am a Muslim. I just bought a pack of white stickers (I suppse whiteout could work too), got out and ink pen, and edited it, when needed, to fit our family. It really hasn't been a big job and it works well for us. I agree the retention is really good in this program. We have used it now for two weeks and I am amazed. DS loves it though I don't make him write everything. We do a mix of written on paper, whiteboard, and oral. Part of the appeal of this is that it does ask for a fair amount of writing as I want my son to start learning to do some book exercises. I actually like the pictures but our family is kind of old fashioned and very conservative so these pictures don't seem odd to us at all the way it might for other families. I also like the old fashioned no non-sense approach as well as the black and white illustrations but then again it is my preference and I think it is less distracting for my children. some children would need a lot of color and excitement on a page but I try to avoid it at every cost. I have no idea what GWG is though. Since i fell in love with R&S and it works very well for us I don't plan to change. I don't suppose it is for everyone but it would be nice, as the pp said, if there was a secular or more secular version of it.

"They schooled similar to how we do, taking off weekends, holidays, when daddy takes his vacation days, and they had from 11:30 on to do whatever. We've lived in the country and in the city, quality of life is a personal choice, not dictated by where one lives. Not everyone who homeschools desires outside activities or fancy vacations. We lead a simple life by choice. You don't have to spend a lot of money, time in a car, be in a lot of activities, or travel to have a close family, happy children, and lots of memories. Children are often over scheduled today and families just go, go go. We take time to explore our own area, be with nature, relax together in our own home, we are active together as a family focusing on a variety of activities they are more likely to carry into adulthood." Although we do school everyday because ds really wants it (but if he didn't we wouldn't) I totally agree with this statement. We also live a pretty simple and plain lifestyle but we are a big and happy family with a lot of love amd joy in our home! I think correespondnece courses and the likes can be very challenging. Almost everyone one that I have every taken has been more difficult than any I have actually attended physically. A lot is expected and you really get judged on your work and effort unlike in a lot of physical campu courses where other factors such as attendance, class particpation, and such are a part of your grade. I personally love online and correspondence type courses but it isn't for everyone. Some people really could not thrive with this and one really has to be self motivated and self disciplined.

Stories of the prophets by ibn katheer The Bible the Quran annd Science by Maruice Baucille Anything written by Bilal Philips The sealed Nector anything by Ahmad Deedat Quran Books I enjoyed by Christian Authors: Created to Be His Helpmeet The Vital importance of Keeping our children's hearts Managers of their homes Passionate Housewives desperate for God raising maidens of virtue

Once F. was fluent in reading we went on to novels and commencing work in vocabulary, grammar, spelling, etc... I didn't do those things before he was fluent. You might try bookadventure.com for some book ideas. If she is stopping to sound out words you might try a somewhat easier level because that one is likely a little hard for her yet. You can also get the book lists off Sonlight's catalog of what they read at each level too and that can help as well. You will probably also do well with the I can read level 3 and 4 books as a starting place and then work into the chapters if you are wanting to spend more time on gaining comprehension skills and having meaningful discussions about the content. I guess a lot can also depend on what your educational goal for her is too and your style of homeschooling. If you are more structured then wanting to know a level will make a lot more sense at this stage in the game. Later, it will matter less because the same novel that could be read by a fourth or fifth grader could also be one that is studied by and 8th or 9th grader but what you do with that reading might be a little differet at each level. As for phonics, we only did a little initially and then he took off with the reading. We don't do phonics workbooks and such. The closest we have come to that is Rod and Staff spelling books because some of the exercises in each lesson use some phonics knowledge to complete. So, if you fear borign her to death with phonics but you want to make sure she has the concpets you can just get it in with a spelling program rather than a phonics program. Also, I am finding that we are likely going to complete several levels of spelling this year...I still suspect ds has a photographic memory. I present the lesson and in the afternoon the whole list is already mastered. I hope this helps :)

I read the book and really enjoyed reading it. I never once got the impression that the children were pushed or didn't find their lives joyous. They only studied for a few hours each day Monday through Friday and according to what I read there was a large emphasis on history and language in their household. Also from what I read the mother never intended to push her ten children through but they just ended up working through each grade. The mother, according to the book, also didn't accpet a half job from the children so she made sure they fully understood everything and really dedicated herself to their studies. The Author of this book speaks quite a bit about many joys of her childhood and family life in this book so if you haven't read it perhaps it is something worth reading. As for acceleration, in our home, it is happening. It isn't at all because I intended it but because we just have a son who is very gifted. He will likely finish with High School by twelve and this is with me slowing him down....and it isn't an easy job. We school year round seven days a week for a couple hours a day. This was my son's choice and he becomes upset if we don't do school even on holidays. Perhaps the Swann children really enjoyed learning and taking part in their school. I suppose, for many of us, it isn't always easy to think that children can really love it that this is what they want to spend a lot of time doing and perhaps more so if we had bad experiences in our schooling etc... As for the point another poster raised about why you don't hear about the swann children now...do you suppose maybe they just want to live quiet private lives? Being highly successful in one's life and career doesn't mean that one should or even wants to have their image and story plastered everywhere for everyone to see. Not everyone who does something many consider extroidinary want others to pry into their lives. I know I wouldn't.

Well, we did start ds on a new program leveled from 2-5 grades this week. Overall it is goign great and peace and happiness has fallen onto our homestead! It took a lot of work and a lot of thought but it seems to be mainly just right for us. We work off and on throughout the whole day. I spend about 3 hours with him durign the day and at night he does about and hour hour and a half with his dad. The work is more challenging than before and I hope that it continues to be challenging to him because if it is not I will surely be insane by the end of the day that he decides it isn't. I also added in a lot more subjects this year too. We are doing: Rod and Staff Math 2 and 3 Road and Staff spelling 2, 3 and 4 (some editing from religious content) Rod and Staff English 2 and 3 (some editiing to the religious content) Wordly Wise 2, 3, 4 Pentime Cursive 3 and Copywork Critical thinking-Dr. DooRiddles, Mind Benders, Building Thinking Skills Sonlight Readers- 2 intermediate and 2 advanced Social Studies-Our Father's World History-SOTW volume 1 with a bunch of add ins and hands on stuff too Religious Studies/Character Education-self explanatory WTM Science suggestions for grades 1 and 2 Art (using artpacs from Rod and Staff and a lot of art appreciationn books for children) Music (solfege and reading music) Arabic Literature-what Mommy reads aloud So we don't do every subject everyday here is round about our weekly schedule (we need a schedule or things will get nuts with these four children!) but we should easily fnish all this this year. I knwo it sounds like a lot for a child who turned five last week but he never fails to surprise me and he is the one who wants it, afterall. I just can't say enough about how wonderful he is when he is challenged...when he is bored though he is not fun to be around at all.

Thanks. This is perhaps the most helpful post, so far. Sometimes is it just a little hard to define what is normal and what is pushing. I say this because what is normal for us is NOT normal for most famlies, either. I always seem to hear, on many boards, that to expect things from a five year old that a fourth or fifth grader might be expected to do is unreasonable. Sometimes it really makes me think. Sometimes, I wonder if I push when I read these things and i think about not foinf school anymore but then ds whines that we haven't done school. Now, the thing I wonder is that since he has insisted on school and I have to report to the state sometime as well as having other children is if having him on a schedule would be pushy considering his age. My husband says it isn't and that if we put him in school he would be on a schedule. It sometimes feels like an overwhelming decision. I am sure I am not the only one who feels this way! I do expect to require more written work this year. His motor skills are very advanced and I think there is no reason for him not to devleop more stamina to ba able to write, by the end of the year, a paragraph or two without tiring. I plan to do anything that requires writing in the earlier part of the day whereas all the fun reading and project based stuff will be in the afternoon. I am trying to make a balance but as I said sometimes it seems do hard! thanks, Sarah :)