How much is enough?

[twoforjoy]

Between $2000 and $3500. Closer to one end or the other depending on whether I'm teaching at the time.

 

It's enough to get by, but not really enough at this point to do things we'd like to do, like saving up for college and retirement and a down payment on a house. We're happy, though.

[Nestof3]

I will never be convinced that those things are needs in this world. I truly believe our wants have just increased because we tend to be insatiable people.

 

Kids can throw balls, play in mud, help with a garden, play board games, jump rope, play hopscotch, go to the library, etc. And, yes, if parents need to be outside to ensure their kids' safety, so be it. I am not saying people shouldn't pay for these extra things; I am saying they are not needs. I will never see bowling league as a need. If you really cannot afford to homeschool and provide the extras you feel your children need for the education you want, then send them to public school.

 

I know that I feel that my kids' activities are needs... otherwise they would be sitting at home doing absolutely nothing. Not because it is a choice (although video games are a preferred activity for them), but because there is absolutely nothing for them to do that they can do in our neighborhood safely and for free.

 

Nowhere to go play a game of baseball, no where to just run around and have fun. The playground is only for kids under age 10 and in between the police patrols, the older kids are there doing drugs, swearing every other word, being disrespectful, getting into gang fights, etc just not the social interactions I want my kids to be having. And we are in a "good" neighborhood.

 

Nothing for them to do here... and I mean nothing. They can't use school fields or playgrounds to play, they can't use the park district fields unless they are an organized sports and pay the usage fee, no fishing allowed in any of the fishing ponds unless you are lucky enough to live in that subdivision (and we do not).

 

In our neighborhood, kids do not play much outside... too many sex offenders. Now days kids just can't be outside without constant adult supervision, and I don't know about other parents... but I cannot be outside 8+ hours a day with my kids to keep them safe. And add in that schools are not offering anything in extracurricular activies nor fine arts, etc. Just not much of a life then.

 

So if I want my kids to learn to swim, learn to play an instrument, learn to play a game of baseball, etc... I have to pay $$ for them to do so.

 

And then add in giving them opportunities in this crazy world... they need to do things and it costs money.

 

Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Civil Air Patrol, music lessons, Kung Fu, Bowling League... these are needs in this day and place in this world. I just choose what activities give us more bang for our buck.

 

My kids do not get a ton of things. They don't have the latest in cell phones (just a simple phone to use for emergencies is enough and they don't get that until they are about 14 yrs old), they don't have TV's and such in their bedrooms. We have one TV for the family to use (and that is about 6 yrs old now). We do have computers... but my laptop is the only one that is under 5 yrs old. The rest... are homebuilt pieced together desktops that Dh and Ds put together. The don't have Ipads, they don't have designer clothes, etc. They have video games... that relatives buy them or that we get used.

 

We spend what Dh and I feel is necessary to give our kids a solid foothold for their future in this world. The extra fun stuff they have... do not have the bells and whistles.

 

And with cost of living now days... it just isn't possible for most people to live on anything under $4000 a month.... not in a 150 mile radius of where we are. And so we have chosen to up and move 800 miles now that the opportunity has come. But not everyone can do that. The move will free up some money to put to kids activities, especially education.

[Nestof3]

I know there are people like this in the world. There are also people in America today who are malnourished, go without clothes/shoes/coats, live without a/c in the summer and with little heat in the winter, drive vehicles that are dangerous b/c they have to go to work and the $ they earn at work barely sustains this lifestlye...

 

A/C is not a need. I am not saying there aren't any of these people in the US now, but I bet the people of which I speak weren't spending their money on other things while still being malnourished. It was a life of constant work -- washing clothes by hand, drawing water from a well to use, there was very little time spent on entertainment. I've heard the stories.

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

 

Our household budget runs about $4,500 for all that you mentioned for 5 people.

 

 

:iagree: We bring home about $4,000, and it's just enough. A bit of wiggle room would be nice.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I will never be convinced that those things are needs in this world. I truly believe our wants have just increased because we tend to be insatiable people.

 

Kids can throw balls, play in mud, help with a garden, play board games, jump rope, play hopscotch, go to the library, etc. And, yes, if parents need to be outside to ensure their kids' safety, so be it. I am not saying people shouldn't pay for these extra things; I am saying they are not needs. I will never see bowling league as a need. If you really cannot afford to homeschool and provide the extras you feel your children need for the education you want, then send them to public school.

 

Where in the world did this come from? :confused: Obviously if we were to have to pare down to the "essentials" we would find out that you can survive and even find some joy in a very simple and even spartan lifestyle. The OP and her husband are trying to find out what those essentials are for them. We all identify our own "essentials" and often circumstances will force us to re-evaluate those "essentials" and to even get by with less.

 

But to impose your essentials onto others and to tell them that if they want any more than that they are insatiable? And to say that if they can't homeschool without these self identified needs that they should send them to public school? :confused: I can't speak for Anita but I would consider the one-on-one attention that I give my kids in our studies, the moral and spiritual lessons which naturally come up in a family school setting, the safety and appropriate sheltering they have from bad influences, to be needs too.

[ERue]

Our take home is about $4000/month, and we're ok. There's a lot of stuff we could cut back on (eating out is ridiculous...bad, bad habit), but we are seriously leaps and bounds beyond where we were a few years ago. DH also just started doing freelancing, but we don't count on that income. It's just extra that goes into savings.

[Mrs Mungo]

The thing is, I don't think the poll really has anything to do with wants vs. needs. I think people spend or spend/save what they have. We have extra money that goes into IRAs, college funds, etc. But, the money that is used as our budget could always use a little more wiggle room. We are generally happy. That is partly because our budget allows for fun stuff.

[Renee in NC]

I will never be convinced that those things are needs in this world. I truly believe our wants have just increased because we tend to be insatiable people.

 

Kids can throw balls, play in mud, help with a garden, play board games, jump rope, play hopscotch, go to the library, etc. And, yes, if parents need to be outside to ensure their kids' safety, so be it. I am not saying people shouldn't pay for these extra things; I am saying they are not needs. I will never see bowling league as a need. If you really cannot afford to homeschool and provide the extras you feel your children need for the education you want, then send them to public school.

 

Dawn, what is going on? I can't see where anyone in this thread deserves to get jumped on like this. We're all imperfect people who can be selfish, or discontent, or any of a number of other things.

 

You are right, none of those are a basic need of life. However, this poll didn't ask that question. I can tell you that you can meet the very basic needs of life for less than $1500 a month if necessary, probably even less. That means basic shelter, basic food, and emergency medical care. Even at our lowest, we weren't starving and while we were cold in the winter, it wasn't so bad that people died. So, it wasn't really that bad (comparatively speaking!)

 

Most people *do* want more than that, though. I know that you have issues with people that you know locally who live differently than you want them to and make different decisions than you have. That's fine. However, those answering the poll who *do* want more than they currently have or want more for their dc are not somehow "weaker" or anything else like that. My grandfather wanted more for his own children than he had experienced as a child, so his level of "needs" was higher than his father's was.

 

A/C is not a need. I am not saying there aren't any of these people in the US now, but I bet the people of which I speak weren't spending their money on other things while still being malnourished. It was a life of constant work -- washing clothes by hand, drawing water from a well to use, there was very little time spent on entertainment. I've heard the stories.

 

We don't live in that world, though. What was okay and acceptable and normal 100+ years ago really has no bearing on today. I bet most of the people who lived back then and lived those lives wouldn't begrudges anyone something better. I've heard the stories, too and most of those people died very young.

 

And, no, A/C isn't a need. You can adjust to not having A/C pretty quickly. We lived in a trailer with no shade in central NC for a summer. I wouldn't want to repeat it, though, unless I absolutely had to. I can wash clothes by hand and would if I had to, but I don't.

 

Where in the world did this come from? :confused: Obviously if we were to have to pare down to the "essentials" we would find out that you can survive and even find some joy in a very simple and even spartan lifestyle. The OP and her husband are trying to find out what those essentials are for them. We all identify our own "essentials" and often circumstances will force us to re-evaluate those "essentials" and to even get by with less.

 

But to impose your essentials onto others and to tell them that if they want any more than that they are insatiable? And to say that if they can't homeschool without these self identified needs that they should send them to public school? :confused: I can't speak for Anita but I would consider the one-on-one attention that I give my kids in our studies, the moral and spiritual lessons which naturally come up in a family school setting, the safety and appropriate sheltering they have from bad influences, to be needs too.

 

:iagree: You do what you have to. Someone very wise told me that years ago and she was right. There is also a psychological component to this topic - it is easier to do without what not many other people have. If you live in a community where most people don't have A/C, or live in tiny houses, or what have you, then it is easier to be content. "Keeping up with the Joneses" is a very real thing and definitely has an effect on most people.

[I.Dup.]

Now, I see people complaining about money but even their kids have droid phones. People are complaining because they cannot afford swim lessons or karate lessons.

 

Frankly, I am just tired of it. I think there is a huge difference between what people need and what they want and expect.

 

:iagree:My 2 parents make around 7,000 per month (for the 2 of them) and constantly complain about not having enough. Granted they live in CA, but they could choose to rent, they do NOT need to own. Most of the expenses they complain and whine about come from the house they recently bought. They have just made terrible financial decisions over the years.

 

Dh brings home around $2,800 per month. We do not pay rent right now as we live in a double wide on his work property sort of as "maintainers of the land." I also recently started a job where I make around $500 a month, and that has given us a lot of wiggle room. We eat out when we want, all of our bills are covered, I regularly buy stuff off of Amazon, so yes we are covered for everything we need and many things we want.

 

If we did have to pay for rent, we would need closer to $4,000 to be in the "comfortable" position we are in now.

[FO4UR]

 

Kids can throw balls, play in mud, help with a garden, play board games, jump rope, play hopscotch, go to the library, etc.

 

Even these cost a small amount of money. These are the extras in my world. LOL

 

 

If you really cannot afford to homeschool and provide the extras you feel your children need for the education you want, then send them to public school.

 

I know you are speaking out of reaction to people you know from irl, and it has nothing to to with me. I'm not offended, but I hope you can see another side to this too.

 

I am right now deciding between putting my dc in school so I can work FT or HS and tough it out another year...hoping dh gets a better job (He has a Master's Degree, for Pete's Sake!!!). My youngest is already ready reading 3-4 letter words phonetically. I think he'd survive the attack of the sight words in Kindy just fine. My middle dc is reading far beyond the average 1st grader...and is ahead in every single area...she'll be bored with the academics but she'll survive. The DEAL-BREAKER is my 8yo. He has visual processing issues/dyslexia. I know enough about how the school system works here to know he is NOT going to get the help he needs at the ps:glare:....and I know enough about him that he is NOT going to have the stamina to survive ps during the day and focus on intensive tutoring with me at night. Putting him in PS is the same as non-schooling him in my POV...he could sit in the classroom, but he's going to fall through those infamous "cracks" in all ps classrooms.

 

For many people, these decisions aren't as easy (or as frivolous) as they first appear.

 

 

A/C is not a need. I am not saying there aren't any of these people in the US now, but I bet the people of which I speak weren't spending their money on other things while still being malnourished. It was a life of constant work -- washing clothes by hand, drawing water from a well to use, there was very little time spent on entertainment. I've heard the stories.

 

A/C is a need for asthmatics. It is truly necessary in order to breath. We have since moved, but when we were in NC the summer highs reached 100+ frequently (though we could afford the A/C there). ds8 would walk from the door to the van and the heat would trigger his asthma. I can't imagine how kids like him would survive southern summers without A/C. Kids like him in times past were simply part of the mortality rate.

 

I've heard the stories too, and I've lived through some horrible times myself (not to minimize anyone else's suffering). I've even had to wash clothes by hand for a while (as in, the entire family wash b/c we didn't have a working machine and couldn't afford the laundry mat)...:tongue_smilie:

[Amy in NH]

I voted $2000-3500, but that is a huge range! We are closer to the $2000 end, which is not enough, but $3500 would be very comfortable for us.

[Mrs Mungo]

A/C is a need for asthmatics. It is truly necessary in order to breath. We have since moved, but when we were in NC the summer highs reached 100+ frequently (though we could afford the A/C there). ds8 would walk from the door to the van and the heat would trigger his asthma. I can't imagine how kids like him would survive southern summers without A/C. Kids like him in times past were simply part of the mortality rate.

 

This is a good point. My son has it in his medical record that our housing is to have a/c due to his medical condition.

[6packofun]

And we, in Ohio, with 6 kids would be very comfortable on $4k take-home per month. That is actually the pay we'd like to attain. :)

[AnitaMcC]

I will never be convinced that those things are needs in this world. I truly believe our wants have just increased because we tend to be insatiable people.

 

Kids can throw balls, play in mud, help with a garden, play board games, jump rope, play hopscotch, go to the library, etc. And, yes, if parents need to be outside to ensure their kids' safety, so be it. I am not saying people shouldn't pay for these extra things; I am saying they are not needs. I will never see bowling league as a need. If you really cannot afford to homeschool and provide the extras you feel your children need for the education you want, then send them to public school.

 

Well it is a need for two of my boys... they are on autism spectrum and these are things that are recommended by their doctors and our insurance won't pay for. So yes they are needs. No I don't have the time nor energy to stay outside to watch my boys like a hawk for hours on end. I have other things to do that I must get done... clean house, do laundry, take care of medical needs for myself, fix meals, take kids to doctors, etc.

 

So, we do activities where I know that the structure and supervision will help in the areas they need and keep them safe.

 

And sending to public school... that is just funny. I homeschool oldest two because public school has messed up and did not meet their needs... even for Ds on a IEP.

 

And I never said I couldn't afford the things my kids need... I just said that kids activities are needs for our family. And because cost of living is going up higher than I like for our income... we are moving to where the living expenses (house, utilities, food, etc) will be less than half for where we live in a suburb of Chicago.

[AnitaMcC]

A/C is not a need. I am not saying there aren't any of these people in the US now, but I bet the people of which I speak weren't spending their money on other things while still being malnourished. It was a life of constant work -- washing clothes by hand, drawing water from a well to use, there was very little time spent on entertainment. I've heard the stories.

 

 

A/C is a need for my family. I and four of my kids have asthma. If I don't have A/C then the days that are hot and humid... I am literally drowning in my own fluids and can end up in the ICU for a week.

 

I don't understand how someone can make judgements about what other people need when they don't know the dynamics. There are people and families that are not typical. And what one person deems as a neccessity, another person may see it as a want...and vice versa.

[Nestof3]

Dawn, what is going on? I can't see where anyone in this thread deserves to get jumped on like this. We're all imperfect people who can be selfish, or discontent, or any of a number of other things.

 

 

 

I've been away with only an iphone, and typing large portions is difficult that way.

 

My comments were never from the beginning specifically targeted at one person either in real life or on this board -- they were aimed at society at large -- including myself. They also have nothing to do with how much money people want to make. I am all for making life comfortable, full of opportunity, as fabulous as possible. Heck, I hate being uncomfortable. I hate being hot. I would hate to have to go back to washing clothes by hand (something my aunt used to have to do). I love having modern technology. Hire a maid, a nanny, private tutors for all sorts of things from Mandarin to horseback riding. Live it up, I say.

 

BUT

 

I've been doing a lot of ancestry study and realizing how people lived and thinking back to the attitudes these people had (from the relatives I remember and the stories they told). It seems in general that the more people have become used to having the more they complain. I think we have gone from defining needs as things which ensure survival to needs being things that ensure the greatest happiness and sense of fulfillment.

 

Clearly A/C is necessary for some people (as pointed out), but there is a fount of other examples of ways we begun treating wants as needs. I cannot believe I am one of the only people who has considered this trend. We women have been freed up so much by modern conveniences yet we still insist we don't have time. Kids complain about boredom all the time even though they are surrounded by stuff.

 

The comments about public school refer to the fact that public schools were created to be there for families that could not provide through private means the education desirable for their children. It was realized that not everyone could afford private tutors. I mean this in all seriousness. I value the one-on-one teaching of my children and the ability to personally guide and protect my children more than I miss any of the extracurricular advantages public schooling offers. We do pay for piano lessons (not needs in my opinion), but there are things we give up by homeschooling that the boys would have access to in the public school system. It's a choice we make because of our priorities.

[Diana B]

I voted $2000 and need more because we are both unemployed at the moment. When we had money coming it, we were living on $1600/mo for 3 people. The biggest thing we need more $ for is to get out of our tiny, nasty, druggy-neighbored apartment.

 

I think we would be happy with about $3-4K a month. That would give us enough to afford rent on a house with some land, and be able to pay for everything else we need.

[Renee in NC]

I've been away with only an iphone, and typing large portions is difficult that way.

 

My comments were never from the beginning specifically targeted at one person either in real life or on this board -- they were aimed at society at large -- including myself. They also have nothing to do with how much money people want to make. I am all for making life comfortable, full of opportunity, as fabulous as possible. Heck, I hate being uncomfortable. I hate being hot. I would hate to have to go back to washing clothes by hand (something my aunt used to have to do). I love having modern technology. Hire a maid, a nanny, private tutors for all sorts of things from Mandarin to horseback riding. Live it up, I say.

 

BUT

 

I've been doing a lot of ancestry study and realizing how people lived and thinking back to the attitudes these people had (from the relatives I remember and the stories they told). It seems in general that the more people have become used to having the more they complain. I think we have gone from defining needs as things which ensure survival to needs being things that ensure the greatest happiness and sense of fulfillment.

 

Clearly A/C is necessary for some people (as pointed out), but there is a fount of other examples of ways we begun treating wants as needs. I cannot believe I am one of the only people who has considered this trend. We women have been freed up so much by modern conveniences yet we still insist we don't have time. Kids complain about boredom all the time even though they are surrounded by stuff.

 

The comments about public school refer to the fact that public schools were created to be there for families that could not provide through private means the education desirable for their children. It was realized that not everyone could afford private tutors. I mean this in all seriousness. I value the one-on-one teaching of my children and the ability to personally guide and protect my children more than I miss any of the extracurricular advantages public schooling offers. We do pay for piano lessons (not needs in my opinion), but there are things we give up by homeschooling that the boys would have access to in the public school system. It's a choice we make because of our priorities.

 

I mostly agree with what you say here. The boredom is caused by too much stuff and electronic stimulation - your brain gets conditioned for more, more, more, so when it isn't there it is seeking it. PS extracurriculars? Do they even have those anymore?:tongue_smilie:

 

I had a college professor once say that modern conveniences such as washing machines made things harder on us, not easier. When there were no washers and all clothes had to be made by hand, you had 2-3 outfits and wore them until they could stand up by themselves.:D That was perfectly acceptable in society because it was the norm. Now, a different outfit for each day of the week is considered "minimum." After doing too much laundry this week, I am all for the former!:lol:

 

So, do you not want more than you have now, or are you saying that you would want more but you want other things more than you want A/C or more activities for your boys?

[Nestof3]

LOL to the clothes comment!

 

Oh, I wish I could be so noble as to say I want less. No, I have a feeling that if we had more income, my wants would just adjust to a new level. We're not scraping by, but I do say no to things quite a bit because of the cost. I decided to sign my boys up for a co-op this year (I don't see it as necessary but beneficial). If we didn't have the funds, I would just not have signed them up. I did choose only two classes because four classes were just too much money to spend, in my opinion. If money were no object, I wouldn't have thought twice about it.

 

 

 

I had a college professor once say that modern conveniences such as washing machines made things harder on us, not easier. When there were no washers and all clothes had to be made by hand, you had 2-3 outfits and wore them until they could stand up by themselves.:D That was perfectly acceptable in society because it was the norm. Now, a different outfit for each day of the week is considered "minimum." After doing too much laundry this week, I am all for the former!:lol:

 

So, do you not want more than you have now, or are you saying that you would want more but you want other things more than you want A/C or more activities for your boys?

[FO4UR]

Oh, I wish I could be so noble as to say I want less. No, I have a feeling that if we had more income, my wants would just adjust to a new level.

 

That is true for everyone. Everywhere. :iagree:

 

 

There is always some poorer than you, richer than you, greedier than you, more generous than you. I am just sensitive to the fact that wanting more isn't always out of an *unhealthy* greed. It is healthy to want to give your dc good food, a safe home, warm clothes, enriching experiences and an education.

 

I think my dc really need the benefits of a HS co-op! (We are pretty isolated here, and reading the other thread about isolated HSers scared me LOL.) I'm opting out b/c of $. I opt out of things that I perceive as needs all the time. Priorities, at this level, means choosing between which needs to meet...which needs are most urgent.

 

Should I feel guilty about "adjusting to a new level" when my dh gets a decent job? Maybe. I mean, there are people who have it worse than I do and for longer periods of time.

[goldberry]

It seems in general that the more people have become used to having the more they complain.

 

I see this in my DD, and don't like it.

 

But I wonder if it really is the "having more" or if those people would be that way no matter what. I have also known many people more well off who were both grateful, generous, and not materialistic. So I don't view it so much as the "having more" that causes it, but the personality trait. It is a parental responsibility to teach my DD to NOT be that way.