Considering moving toward something more "unschool-ish" next year. Thoughts?

[Jenny in Florida]

So, I've been talking a lot to my son and my husband and bouncing ideas off of my daughter, too.

 

The result is that I'm strongly considering loosening the academic reigns a bit next year.

 

I've been feeling for the last two or three years like my son is just going through the motions with school. Any subject he doesn't like gets stalled and stalled. Eventually, when pushed, he'll do a half-hearted job with it. If pushed some more, he'll revise and re-do until assignments meet the bare minimum required. (This is true of both subjects I teach and the ones we outsource.) If his grade suffers, he doesn't seem to care. And, when asked about that subject a few months later, he can't seem to recall anything.

 

For example, he "studied" Spanish for three years and now can't remember how to say please and thank you.

 

Stuff he likes? That gets attention. For most of this year, for example, he's been running an average in the honors level of his online language arts class of over 100% (with extra credit, which he does for fun).

 

I'm just tired of it all. I don't see the point of making him unhappy and wasting so much of his time. He has maybe three or four years of homeschooling left, and I think it's time to change our approach.

 

Here's what I'm considering:

 

A few subject, "the basics," would be designed/defined/chosen by me. For next year, I think that will be English (lit and comp), math, foreign language and some "remedials" (like his handwriting and spelling are atrocious).

 

Some other subjects would be required by me but would allow him a lot of freedom to choose how to study. For example, I want him to do world history and geography next year. We had been planning to have him take history online, and I've been purchasing materials for geography. But now I'm considering letting him choose a book or books to read as an overview for history and then letting him do more reading or research or projects on specific things that interest him. And we'd do something similar with geography, except that I might require him to choose among the materials I have on hand. The idea is that these subjects would have a kind of "framework," guidelines for how much work he should do per week or month, but give him freedom to decide how to do it.

 

We'd probably take the same approach with world religions.

 

I'm not sure yet what we would do with science. We had been planning to have him take it online, but I've never been especially excited about that idea. I might just let him choose.

 

I'm sure other folks here have tried this kind of "hybrid" approach? If so, I'd love to hear about your experiences?

 

And for everyone: I know it's not "classical," but is it crazy?

 

Thanks!

[PeterPan]

Well I only have a dc a year younger than yours, so take this with as big a grain of salt as you'd wish. However to me, when I read all that, it still sounds like the same *methods* just with more freedom. Might be a bigger change to change out the methods entirely. I've got to say my dd is very similar to your ds, and she's just a very different learner from your standard, advanced, textbooky kind of kid. Maybe, because things went so well with your older, you hope to carry the same methods over with your ds? What you're describing is still lots of books, not much doing, still quite in the stream of the way WTM breaks down stuff. (Read a spine, read extra books, write.)

 

Does he WANT to do world religions? What would happen if you assigned him to go to a different church from your norm and learn about them to discuss? He could start with a core list of questions (how they approach heaven, how they approach social issues, how they approach moral issues, what their core values or goals are, how they elect leadership) and try to decipher the answers by covert attendance and reading. Then rinse and repeat with another type of church. Then his task is to find 4 more people in other types of religions even more divergent, meet them, and get the same questions answered. Then his task is to read books from your own viewpoint and sort all that out.

 

I mean that sounds nutty, but there ARE other ways of going about things. My dd, although an avid reader, is fundamentally a DO-er. Give her things to do, and she's marvy, a go-getter. So I'd figure out what he does well and try to capitalize on that a bit. I've come to that point, because I've realized I'm either going to have to do great injustice to her soul to cram in a traditional education, or I'm going to have to loosen up, sacrifice a few superficial things, and harness who she is to turn her into who she can be. Yeah, I can shove her through some system (open book, read, write, rinse, repeat), but, like you say, it's not gonna stick.

 

The problem is, at least for us, *freedom* doesn't help with that. She still needs structure and guidance, kwim? No structure, and we fall apart. But what she needs is different METHODS.

 

BTW, I notice you're planning to use Crossing the River with Dogs. The only other person here I've seen (not that I've seen them all, lol) using that was KarenAnne. If you like that book, you might like other things she has used. You can do a board search for her posts. She's pretty outside the box. :)

Edited June 16, 2011 by OhElizabeth

[elfgivas]

:grouphug: its hard. we've been out of the high school loop for seven years and are just starting back into it with dd#3.

 

if he wants to end up doing something that requires a college education, mostly he needs to figure out how to force himself to work when he doesn't want to. that, more than course content, seems to me to be the critical piece. can he learn how to apply himself to work towards a goal when he'd frankly rather not? this is very different from working hard at things one likes and not at things one doesn't, kwim?

 

for us, education is a matter of how they will live for the rest of their lives, so i'm not prepared to let them punt on that...at all. if they are going to be passive/aggressive (which is what stalling things sounds like to me), then all else except hard chores will stop until they get back on track. as i age, i become more and more strongly NOT an unschooler..... that said, i am in the process of giving them some subjects as semester things and others as year long things with breaks at different times. (eg. this summer in language arts there is a heavy reading comprehension/grammar/fluency component, and in the fall they will have a heavy composition and spelling component with free reading. we take a history break for the summer and do a strong "science" component in that time period...). this seems to be an approach that helps them focus more, because they know if they buckle down, they'll be done with the things they don't like for a while. if they don't, they'll be there forever..... we also link computer and dvd time to being done school each day well. that continues to be a great incentive all these years later.... for me, too. lol.... if i do the dishes and the laundry, i get a half hour of facebook time. etc, etc...

 

hth,

ann

[Teachin'Mine]

IMO there's nothing wrong with stepping outside the box. You can always try your new approach for a year tweeking it as you go, and then you can decide whether or not it's best meeting his educational goals. If not, you can always change. I'd also suggest having him consider his career goals. We still don't have concrete ideas on that here, but I think this is the age to be exploring the possibilities. You may find that he's able to be more focused in his studies if he has a goal in mind. :)

[Karen in CO]

When my ds was about the same age as yours we had a similar problem. What I finally did was to do math and English and have everything else covered by reading and discussing. We'd spend several hours at the library every other week. He'd be required to get a certain number of fiction and non-fiction books. He'd read them, or we'd read them together. He'd write a summary for some, we'd discuss others, and he'd enjoy others. We made it through the year, and he read widely. He learned he like Japanese, art, philosophy and politics.

 

If I had a do-over for that year, the only thing I would have changed was adding more physical activities because 13yo boys are easier to live with if they have vigorous exercise.

[PeterPan]

Karen, can you talk some more about this? I've been thinking I need to make a shift toward more non-fiction reading with my dd, who is crazy for historical fiction. I've just let it get really imbalanced. But what I don't know is how much I ought to make her *do* with the non-fiction, vs. just letting her read. Did you put quantities to your required categories (books to discuss, books to write summaries on, books you can just enjoy)? See what I'm concerned about is that she tends to gloss, or understand generally, things that might serve her better over the long-run to be more thoroughly or specifically understood. But maybe that comes by reading about the topic multiple times, from multiple perspectives?

 

So there, my great shortfalling of the year is out of the bag. :)

[Jenny in Florida]

Maybe, because things went so well with your older, you hope to carry the same methods over with your ds? What you're describing is still lots of books, not much doing, still quite in the stream of the way WTM breaks down stuff. (Read a spine, read extra books, write.)

 

Oh no. This is a very different kid, and we've not used any of the same curriculum or methods for him.

 

The thing is, though, that my son LOVES to read. It's one of his two preferred methods of learning (along with listening).

 

And, while I don't remember saying anything about making him write, I did mention projects.

 

Does he WANT to do world religions? What would happen if you assigned him to go to a different church from your norm and learn about them to discuss?

 

Well, we attend a UU church. And his religious education class next year will be doing a curriculum that involves visiting different houses of worship. So, that part is covered. Having taught for years in UU RE classes, though, I know our curricula can be a little light. So, I want to make sure he has a solid foundation of information. I believe that kind of understanding is extremely important.

 

I'm not sure he would WANT to study much of anything, actually. I've discussed this with him, and he agrees that a certain amount of structure from me is a good thing.

 

I mean that sounds nutty, but there ARE other ways of going about things. My dd, although an avid reader, is fundamentally a DO-er. Give her things to do, and she's marvy, a go-getter.

 

My son loves to do things, when they are things he wants to do. Otherwise, it's just another assignment, and he treats it with exactly the same amount of disinterest. Over the years, I've carefully chosen projects I think he'll love and found that, if I assign it, he does the same slap-dash, just get it over with job he does with anything I suggest.

 

He writes when he wants to do so. He spends hours making creations with duct tape and cardboard. He reads many books a week and watches documentaries on TV about subjects that interest him.

 

If I choose and assign any of those things, he hates it and does just enough to "pass."

 

That's why I'm thinking that allowing him to choose his materials may be the key.

 

Thanks for the thoughts. They've helped me clarify my thinking a bit.

[laughing lioness]

couple of book ideas: The Teenage Liberation Handbook by Llewllyn and The New Global Student (my review here).

[Jenny in Florida]

if he wants to end up doing something that requires a college education, mostly he needs to figure out how to force himself to work when he doesn't want to. that, more than course content, seems to me to be the critical piece. can he learn how to apply himself to work towards a goal when he'd frankly rather not? this is very different from working hard at things one likes and not at things one doesn't, kwim?

 

Oh, he certainly can do that. It's just that he doesn't get much out of it when he has to force it.

 

Frankly, I don't know too many people who do.

 

It's one of the reasons my daughter tells us she learned more homeschooling than in college. Formal college coursework was all about jumping through hoops to get a grade, and she hated every second of it and forgot it all once she got through the exam.

 

I feel like that's what my son has been doing for the last few years. And it's what I want to avoid now.

 

if they are going to be passive/aggressive (which is what stalling things sounds like to me), then all else except hard chores will stop until they get back on track.

 

Yep. We've been doing that, too. And what I've learned is that, while I can certainly coerce him into jumping through the hoops I assign, I can't make him actually learn anything. In fact, forcing the issue seems to guarantee he won't.

 

I can require behavior, but not learning.

 

we also link computer and dvd time to being done school each day well. that continues to be a great incentive all these years later

 

Tried that, too. In fact, it's been the rule of the house always. However, it results in the same thing I mentioned above. He does the work, but doesn't absorb or care about any of it.

 

This is not a behavioral issue. He's really a pretty terrific kid. He's bright and interested in lots of things. He's funny and charming and caring. He's busy with lots of projects and ideas. He reads non-stop and volunteers at our church. There's not a thing "wrong" with him that needs to be fixed. (Well, okay, maybe a couple of things I'd like to help him work on just a little.)

 

What's bothering me is the waste of time his education has become. He's not interested. He's not learning much more than he would if I just let him read.

 

I love learning. I'm an autodidact, have been my whole life. I've learned so much more from exploring on my own than I ever did in school.

 

I don't want his "education" to turn him off of learning.

[Nan in Mass]

Jenny, I am doing this for my youngest's high school. After much online panicking, Lisa pointed out to me that I was actually defining what I wanted for my son quite clearly: efficient education in the basics so he would have time for his own projects. (Basics means enough to get into one of the more interesting engineering schools.) In other words, half very efficient school (which probably means doing things in a pretty school-y way), half unschooling. He is headed towards engineering, so I pretty much decided to give math top priority, to do language arts and humanities "suitably badly", to do something loose for science with an emphasis on learning to design and write up an experiment until he went to the community college,overtly to work on study skills, and to do a little bit of stuff for me because if I am not learning something I want to learn, I abandon school. I try to keep him working hard on the stuff for me in the morning from 7ish to 1ish, try being the operative word here SIGH. The difference between what we were doing and what we are doing now is basically an hour or two a day of free time for his projects, more resources and help with those projects, and a requirement to document the project somehow. I think I am going to list these things on his transcript as:

Independent Project: Title

Independent Project: Title

Independent Project: Title

That way, he will get credit for working independently. I hope.

 

9th grade was entirely at home except for peacewalking in Europe.

10th grade included a trip to Japan and two community college classes - drawing and speech - just to get him used to being in a classroom and the rest with at home. We worked on getting him working more independently, with very mixed results.

The plan for 11th and 12th grade is to take math, science, and possibly some other classes at the CC; do great books, his histoire/géographie textbook, and a tiny bit of Latin reading and sight singing with me; and various independent projects. He probably won't be able to travel because of being tied down to the CC schedule and our normal family summer plans.

 

I think whether the sort of half-and-half schooling you are considering succeeds or not depends on:

Your son's ability to come up with educational projects for himself

Your son's ability to keep himself working on those projects rather than playing on the computer (or whatever)

Your ability to come up with mentors for those projects

Your ability to come up with the materials or resources for those projects

 

I found that some things need to be considered "school" and required by me to get done, even though he does them entirely independently and I'm not planning on putting them on his transcript. Piano wound up being like this. If I include piano in his morning school schedule, it tends to gobble up more than its fair share of my precious school time because he enjoys it. He doesn't take lessons anymore, but works out how to play things he likes using youtube videos. I don't have to do anything but happily listen while I do the dishes. However, this year, since he was doing it do independently, I took it out of my school time and he hardly played at all. So I am adding it back into the schedule next year.

 

It can get pretty expensive. We have bought and then rebought when he burned them out many electical components. We have bought plane tickets to Japan. We have bought pvc piping and plexiglass and little brass screws and four large bottles of corn oil and boxes of ziplocks and five boxes of corn starch and my husband accidentally threw out all our cereal thinking I had taken it out of its boxes because of meal millers when instead my son had stolen all the cardboard to make patterns. Anyway...

 

I can't tell you yet whether this is going to be successful. I can't even tell if it is a good thing or a bad thing that I am apt to find my son soldering something instead of writing up his history petit texte the way I told him to. I am seriously alarmed at the number of errors he makes in his math and how fast he forgets things, and seriously panicking over whether he can manage a CC science class, with its tests and deadlines and textbook and large quantity of material covered. A different approach might have been more comfortable for both of us. I hope I haven't failed him by taking this approach. On the other hand, I haven't lost him, either.

 

That probably wasn't very helpful. Ask me in about 2020, when my son has graduated from college and has managed to hang on to a job for few years. LOL.

 

Jenny, I *can* tell you that losing your son (really losing him) is not worth a good education.

 

-Nan

Edited June 16, 2011 by Nan in Mass

[Jenny in Florida]

A different approach might have been more comfortable for both of us. I hope I haven't failed him by taking this approach. On the other hand, I haven't lost him, either.

 

That probably wasn't very helpful. Ask me in about 2020, when my son has graduated from college and has managed to hang on to a job for few years. LOL.

 

Jenny, I *can* tell you that losing your son (really losing him) is not worth a good education.

 

-Nan

 

Nan, thank you.

 

Believe me, I understand about the expense! The thing is that we tend to do all of that stuff anyway. My husband gave our son a whole mess of PVC a couple of years ago for Christmas. It's one of the few things he still mucks about with pretty much daily.

 

We spend uncountable amounts of money at Home Depot and craft stores.

 

We travel whenever we can. In fact, we just got back from four days in New York, during which we managed to squeeze in five shows, two museum exhibits and a quick trip to the zoo. The last four years, while my daughter was in school 800 miles away, my son and I made the drive 7 to 10 times per year, always listening to audiobooks and usually trying to work in something educational and/or fun along the way. We visited several museums and living history centers, saw shows, toured a Shakespearean theatre, etc.

 

At home, we regularly have season tickets for at least two theatres and visit museums several times a year.

 

That's the kind of stuff we do for fun. And what I'm realizing is that he's learned at least as much from all of that as he has from any curriculum I've ever assigned.

[Nan in Mass]

I know he learns at least as much. Probably more, in fact, when it comes to content and some types of skills. But unless he is a natural at academic skills, it turns out that a bunch of academic skills get learned doing those school things that he isn't learning anything else from, and those academic skills are important for survival at college. If those skills come naturally to you, you probably won't see that until your son is older and you have higher expectations for his output. It is right about his age that the many of those skills are expected to be learned. Before that, my children appeared pretty bright and could wing most things. After about that age, my children definately struggled, not because of the material but because academic skills don't come naturally to them. Ideally, you would tackle those skills within the context of fascinating, self-motivating material. I found that I had to separate those skills out and teach them as study skills, rather than in context, because mine were semi-motivated to go to college and therefore semi-motivated to learn those skills, but they were less than motivated to learn them when you mixed them in with boring subject matter. You might be better at teaching those skills within the context of material of his own choosing. I was unsuccessful. All that happened was that I ruined something my children had been interested in. Just in case you don't know this already... It is hard, as a mother who can manage academic things easily, to see that those skills are actually skills that might have to be learned. At least it was for me.

-Nan

[Guest]

 

This is exactly the situation with my dd, 15. I have spent untold time worrying about it and wondering which direction to take.

 

What has helped me figure it all out relates precisely to what I quoted above: she learns BEST this way.

 

Dd is a book fanatic. She loves classics (currently she's reading the unabridged Don Quixote, The Three Muskateers, and Emma); but what she loves best is satirical fantasy along the lines of Terry Pratchett and Douglas Adams. I bewailed this for years. Yet every single time a factual, conventionally academic subject came up -- from Schroedinger's cat to string theory to theories of power and governance to the British Civil War -- she had already been exposed to it through the fantasy books, UNDERSTOOD it, and had often done additional research of her own.

 

Like your family, we incorporate lots of outside-the-house learning. We are in our second year of scoring cheap season tickets to not one but two local theaters; we go up to Los Angeles periodically to the Huntington Library or the big art museums there; we visit science museums and natural history museums wherever we travel. I do not consider these extras or enrichment or "field trips," but integral parts of my daughter's education -- even, at times, the centerpiece. Not only do we visit these places; we attend lectures by artistic directors and listen to "talk with the actors" after plays; we go to readings of new books; we talk to docents and guides. In this way my daughter gets to learn about work adults do that they find satisfying and educational and fun, and gets to learn how they go about it. This, too, I consider central to her education.

 

I know there's a lot of pressure, in our culture in general and on these boards, to pursue a rigorous academic program. Rigor is often conflated with excellence as if the two go together in a way that excludes anything else; but there are many more ways to get a terrific education than those linked to specific curricula or conventional approaches. It may help ease your anxiety to know that on another board I frequent, parents comment that the question nearly all college interviewers asked their kids was, "How did you use the freedom homeschooling allowed you? What did you do, how did you go about your education, in ways that went beyond the norm?" In other words, they were most interested to hear about the ways in which a kid was able to take control of at least parts of his own schooling, to set goals and work towards them, to choose materials -- not just textbooks and workbooks -- to investigate topics of interest in a way that a school-bound child (particularly one with hours of homework nightly) is not free to do.

 

Of course some colleges are still homeschooler-reluctant and like to see homeschoolers fulfill precisely the same sort of box-checking that institutionally schooled kids are forced to do; but not all are like this. There are colleges out there that will be interested in the ways your son learns, what HE chooses to do and read, how he spends his time. By the way, this can even include science and engineering schools; I recently read an article in which MIT professors lamented the loss of applicants who spent their high school years taking things apart and building things.

 

It all boils down to the way your child learns best and is most motivated to pursue subjects that interest him. Even SWB allows the possibility of specializing in high school, dropping some subjects in favor of others to which a child is drawn. You can minimize work in areas required for general college admission -- still giving him a voice in what materials he'd like to use and how he'd like to go about them -- and give him greater freedom to work in the areas he enjoys on his own terms. Education can still center on mastery without being bound to conventional ways of getting there.

[Susan C.]

Hmmmm. I see he is 13?? He will change so much in the next few years. Around 10th or 11th grade, they seem to realize they need to get ready for life and/or college and kick it into gear. And, boys have a year they literally forget around 13 or 14 y/o when they have their growth spurt. That is the reason for shop in middle school!

 

I have found it is better to structure the classes and then pull it back and choose not to do certain parts rather than do a put together. I have homeschooled two, and each has been very different, and I have tried to feel my way through like you are. Just keep trying different things, and be willing to change it up when it isn't working, and you will find your place.

 

Dd is going to be a senior next year. This year I tried cutting back some of the "plowing through reading" and replaced it with real research. She seems to learn better when she is more involved with it. I don't think it would go well to just let her pick the topics, though, she needs more structure. I pick a topic from what she is studying and have her research it and write a short paper on it (1-3 pages). This has really helped her get out of the cram and spit out on test mentality. I changed literature programs to one that encourages more thought about concepts, and less fact recall. I am trying to be skill focused rather than amount of work focused. Can dd write a good essay? Can she process a good piece of literature? etc. Math and science have always taken a large part of our day. I try to pick programs that fit dd's learning style, but in the end, she just has to work hard on them. I also don't like to push push push hard all the time, I like to work at level, and push harder in small spurts periodically.

 

Hope I made sense and HTH.

[Jenny in Florida]

I know he learns at least as much. Probably more, in fact, when it comes to content and some types of skills. But unless he is a natural at academic skills, it turns out that a bunch of academic skills get learned doing those school things that he isn't learning anything else from, and those academic skills are important for survival at college. If those skills come naturally to you, you probably won't see that until your son is older and you have higher expectations for his output. It is right about his age that the many of those skills are expected to be learned.

 

Nan--

This is exactly the kind of thing that concerns me. I'm wondering if you could expand a little bit? What skills did your kids end up missing?

I'm a natural academic, too. So, I often don't see why things are hard.

[Corraleno]

I've been feeling for the last two or three years like my son is just going through the motions with school. Any subject he doesn't like gets stalled and stalled. Eventually, when pushed, he'll do a half-hearted job with it. If pushed some more, he'll revise and re-do until assignments meet the bare minimum required. (This is true of both subjects I teach and the ones we outsource.) If his grade suffers, he doesn't seem to care. And, when asked about that subject a few months later, he can't seem to recall anything.

 

Stuff he likes? That gets attention. For most of this year, for example, he's been running an average in the honors level of his online language arts class of over 100% (with extra credit, which he does for fun).

 

I'm just tired of it all. I don't see the point of making him unhappy and wasting so much of his time. He has maybe three or four years of homeschooling left, and I think it's time to change our approach.

I had similar issues with my son, and chose a similar approach to what you describe, and the changes in him have been dramatic, to say the least. I posted about it in this thread, posts 16, 18, 27. There are lots of other great posts in there, from JennW and others.

 

There are many ways to learn the skills that kids need for college (and adult life). Kids can learn logic and critical thinking without a Logic text; learning the skills that produce good writing (e.g., analyzing, organizing, and synthesizing information) doesn't necessarily require a writing curriculum, etc. This is a good age to experiment with finding what works best for your son, before he completely loses interest.

 

Jackie

[AuntPol]

I think we have similar children. My DD is like your son. I posted about it a few weeks ago.-http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277532&highlight=edison+trait.

 

Most people tell me that I should push her anyway, that she needs to learn that we all have to do things we don't "like" etc. However, I don't see the point in spending all my time researching, teaching, grading and she spending her time "learning" if at the end of the day she doesn't know anymore about it than she did before she started. The ratio of input to output is not very economic.

 

She does not retain anything that I assign. She does the bare minimum in anything I assign. Even things that she would probably like are hated because I "assigned" them. On the otherhand, she doesn't have the maturity to structure her time and to work toward long-term goals over immediate gratification. When we 100% unschool, she spends all day texting and emailing friends, looking at youtube videos on Monster High and making videos of Monster High or watching Hannah Montana and ICarly.

 

All of this is compounded by the fact that her brother loves to learn. Yes, he'd rather play video games and watch tv but he can find something exciting about just about anything and his inner perfectionism leads him to try even when it's not "exciting."

 

We are going to try a self-directed learning approach. I have gave her some perimeters (read some classics, learn some history, do something scientific, write something, work on math and a foreign language in case you want to go to collage. I'm giving her the option of how to do it and trying to work with her as a guide/counselor/mentor than a teacher or autocrat. I told her 3 hours of basics and 3 hours of self-iniated projects or other out of box learning (just about anything goes w/following exceptions -NO random or non-educational tv watching/internet surfing/ and ZERO social media until after 4:00.

[Nan in Mass]

Hmmm...

I will expand, but it will take a bit of thinking. The problem is that with a fairly bright child, the holes don't show up until they are old enough to do the things they haven't learned how to do. It isn't until then that you can figure out whether they can't do them. Schools get around this by teaching the skills (which look like busy work) while they are easy. I think at home, you risk having them switch off and stop cooperating if you do that. Besides, an awful lot of it *is* just useless busy work and a waste of time. It is sort of hard to tell the difference. On the other other hand, if you wait until you can see which skills are not coming naturally easily to them at this new, higher level, you have to back track. Perhaps an experienced teacher or a very well written curriculum that happens to be a good match for your child would avoid this problem, but I didn't manage to do it. I think the trick might be to require some academic output at the appropriate level (I am a very bad judge of "appropriate level") and then pay really, really careful attention to how much of a struggle that is. My children use the word "boring" for both mind-numbingly boring and I-would-rather-be-working-on-my-own-project and difficult and/or time consuming, so I find I this difficult. Hard and boring are definately linked. It is hard to make yourself do something boring, especially at 13, and difficult tasks tend to take a long time when you aren't good at them and if you didn't want to do them in the first place, that makes the task most definately boring. I can see why my children use the same word for both. If they are feeling cooperative or patient, I can get them to tell me which they mean simply by asking.

 

I know I haven't talked about which gaps showed up yet. I'm still thinking about what they are/were. The reason I can't just reel them off is that I have already plugged some of them up, or managed to see them coming and avoided them. Some are associated with textbook learning in content subjects like history or science (as opposed to skill subjects like foreign languages and math). TWTM doesn't do much of that and I, too, avoided it. That gap I saw coming. I just had trouble predicting how much of a problem it was going to be or not be. Some of them have to do with classroom learning situation - taking notes from a lecture, keeping track of assignments, etc.. I anticipated some of those and did some prep for them, and for others, I decided to throw them to the wolves and then deal with any gaps after I knew for sure they existed. This wasn't such a bad strategy, it turns out. I could have spent a lot of time trying to teach mine to take notes from a lecture when it turns out that they seem to be able to manage that adequately with no practice at all. If mine didn't ever have to meld into a standard academic learning situation, the gaps having to do with textbooks and classrooms wouldn't be as important, but mine (hopefully) are going to college. Some others have to do with writing. Those were long foreseen and I have worked mightily for years to deal with them. Well, some aspects of them. I gave up on spelling after making them memorize a bunch of rules in 10th grade. I don't worry too much about their handwriting, either, except to insist that they be able to write in cursive. They don't have to do it (except in French) but they have to be able to do it easily if need be. Getting them to write any sort of volume has been a long haul, beginning in about 5th grade with me demanding that they write enough by hand each day to make the process physically easy and ending (more or less) with a struggle to get them to use some sort of obvious conventional organization when they present their ideas, back up their claims with some sort of proof, elaborate on things. In between came a lot of steps, like getting them to write more than one paragraph papers and getting them to state the obvious (biggest problem right there). I am still struggling to get the youngest to date his papers and he is about to finish 10th grade. That appears to be something like the multiplication tables for us, something that has to be reemphasized every few months for years upon years before it becomes automatic. Sigh. I wish I had put more emphasis early on on the appearence of one's work. That didn't seem very important at the time but turned out to be one of those essential academic skills. Keeping one's files in a nice orderly tree format and renaming and resaving frequently are other stupid things that I wish I had introduced and insisted on when we first gave them their laptops. Fortunately, I insisted they learn how to type properly early on and they have managed to pick up word processing and search skills from their friends. Jenny - your milage may vary, of course, but we decided early on that their own laptop was going to be such a great learning tool that it was worth the exposure to the occasional undesirable thing. We have had to wipe their hard drives a few times because they got into things that gave them viruses. I fight the amount of time they spend on the computer constantly. But as a source of information, it has been invaluable. My 21yo just spent the afternoon researching wetsuits and the 16yo researching hiccups and the 24yo researching Korfu (he's shipping out from there). Just a thought. Ok, so I know I am still not really talking about gaps and how you can avoid them, mostly just thinking out loud. I'm way too hot at the moment and am going to go for a swim. I will get back to you about those gaps. As I said, I have to think about them a bit. The worst of our gaps, the ones that have me worried now, are the ones having to do with textbooks and classrooms.

 

-Nan

[Jenny in Florida]

We are going to try a self-directed learning approach. I have gave her some perimeters (read some classics, learn some history, do something scientific, write something, work on math and a foreign language in case you want to go to collage. I'm giving her the option of how to do it and trying to work with her as a guide/counselor/mentor than a teacher or autocrat. I told her 3 hours of basics and 3 hours of self-iniated projects or other out of box learning (just about anything goes w/following exceptions -NO random or non-educational tv watching/internet surfing/ and ZERO social media until after 4:00.

 

It's nice to know my son isn't the only one!

 

What you've described above sounds similar to what I'm working out in my head. I was thinking today about the history syllabus I bought a few years ago from Hewitt. I didn't end up using it for my daughter, but I still have it somewhere in my files. As I recall, it suggested a certain number of projects per quarter and gave a long list of possible kinds of assignments.

 

I'm considering sitting down with my son before the academic year begins and brainstorming lots of different project ideas. We might include writing a report, drawing and annotating a picture, building something with clay or duct tape, writing and performing a skit, etc. Each week or two-week period (whatever we end up deciding), he could choose something from the list to do. We'd probably have to make a rule that he wouldn't be allowed to do the same kind of project more than a few times during the year, of course.

 

We're also planning to come up with a routine or at least an order for him to follow each day.

 

And, by the way, he loved the idea of going to the library every week to check out books and DVDs about the subjects he's studying. We're thinking he would need to check out or choose from our at-home stash of books at least one or two books or DVDs about each of the subjects he is self-studying (probably world history, geography and religions and science).

 

The more I think about it, the more it seems like this just might work.

 

He seems enthusiastic, too, which is, right there, an improvement over how things have been recently.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Jenny in Florida

[Nan in Mass]

Ok - back, nice and cool.

Gaps. Funny how they mostly show up when my children have to learn something they don't want to learn. That is one of the problems with unschooling, I think. The skills needed to learn something one wants to learn seem to differ from the skills needed to learn something one is not really interested in learning for its own sake. And yet, that is actually a valuable skill if one is planning on going to college for something like engineering, something where there is lots of less interesting information that one has to aquire in order to get to the more interesting things. That is one gap that I think shows up.

I taught mine how to memorize and how to review to keep something memorized, but we didn't practise it enough for it to become automatic and not seem like a big hassle, and I should have insisted on their using those hated silly tricks to get things to stick. The same is true of taking notes from a textbook. I taught them how to take Cornell notes, but I didn't make them do it often enough that they could do it fast, and unfortunately, fast is important when you are dealing with a classroom/school learning situation. I also didn't make them practise other things one can do with one's notes in order to cut down on the amount of memorizing needed, like combining lecture and textbook notes. They need more practise with the keywords in textbooks and on exams, things like "discuss" and "analyze". They don't necessarily know what they are being asked to do. They also don't have a lot of experience with the unspoken assumptions behind textbook and exam questions. After years of practise in school, I know automatically what the book wants me to do, even if the question is poorly phrased, but they don't. They don't necessarily think to spit the information that has just been given them back, either. Most of these things have nothing to do with real learning, and at least one of my children is wired such that these sorts of academic skills are difficult, but they are still, unfortunately, important if one wants to survive college.

 

I am leaving out the "real learning" academic skills like keeping a scientific journal, designing a scientific experiment, researching, writing a paper, drawing, speaking other languages, math, making a presentation, proving something, etc.. And I am leaving out important things like making connections and inventing things and problem solving and working in a group and so forth. All in all, I think our approach was the only way I, not being a brilliant, experienced teacher, was able to develop some of those things. It might turn out that taking a little while to back up to practise taking Cornell notes and making flashcards and rewriting one's notes and skimming might not be a bad way to aquire those skills. It might be better than years of taking a textbook approach in order to avoid getting to college and discovering that one can't learn from a textbook or en masse in a class. OR IT MIGHT NOT. I'm not done with my experiment yet, so I can't tell. By the end of next year, as I said, I should have a better idea. I'll you what GRIN - why don't you try for a year but not make any promises for the year after that and I'll email you at the end of next year and let you know.

 

-Nan

 

ETA - This sort of assumes that you read that basic WTM skills thread this spring. In it, I talked about how I now understand how TWTM lead to academic and study skills, something that I wish I had figured out a long time ago. And another thing - I think that if you are willing to put off learning those textbook skills, you can still keep working on the other academic skills while you unschool just by insisting on a more formal structure for the independent projects, something more like the structure that the adult academic world uses. You can make a list of skills like using MLA format (or one of the others), keeping up with the writing in one's field, recording one's work, and presenting or publishing one's work. Then, you can work on the skills in the context of whatever your son wants to study. If you pick a procedure for every project, then he can go through the procedure over and over, and you can help him get better at it with each repetition. You can leave the information to him but you can work on the format.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Nan in Mass

[AuntPol]

This is what my daughter and I have compromised on:

 

3 hours:

Do one requirement (or spend 30 minutes) from a Scout Badge of her choice. She is highly motivated to do badges and there is a ton of skills that can be taught with them.

 

Read (approximately 30 mintues)-1 chapter a day from a classic/Newberry or historical fiction from our time frame AND a non-fiction book (history/science/logic/Uncle Eric book, etc) of her choice. I will read same books (as she is prone to make things up if I don't) and I am going to watch Teaching the Classics to help me facilitate off the cuff. I showed her various ways of finding books -various lists, how to do keyword searches at library, using amazon, etc but she has to pick the books. She is responsible for finding a way to tell me what she learned.

 

Do 30 minutes of math. I let her look at pre-algebra programs and she has picked Kinetic Pre-Algebra. If she is having a hard time, she can try to find a cyberchase video or Khan Academy video.

 

Do 30 minutes of writing -Thank you cards, letters to Grandparents, blog, newsletter, writing contests of her choosing (she likes these), If she did writing in Scout badge then she can waive writing for the day. She can also work in her MCT grammar book or edit previously written work.

 

Do 30 minutes studying Greek (the language she's been begging to learn instead of Latin).

 

30 Minutes working on presentations of what she has learned. (I expect a lot of cooking lol)

 

For history, she has decided to study food and fashion of the 20th century. We've already found some great resources that tie the trends w/what was going on in the world.

 

For science, she wants to study the chemistry in cooking. Again, we've found some great resources at the library.

 

Then 3 hours left in school day for things she wants to do like:

Online film making class/Make videos (but no posting until after school since posting seems to lead to random youtube surfing)

Make crafts

Sewing lessons

Practice her dance and guitar

Do a volunteer work

Field Trips (I've decided that I will tell her about opportunities that come up but I will no longer sign us up if she is not interested)

Work on spelling bees, geography bees, science fairs if interested.

Read Twaddle books

Watch a movie or documentary related to area of interest (has to be approved by me -no Hannah Montana!)

Work on her business

 

She has to make a to-do list every day to stay focused. The kids alternate walking with me and I have been using that time to talk with her about her goals, her progress, what can I do to help.

 

The hardest part for me is to NOT suggest. Once I suggest it, it goes into the "never in a million years" portion of her brain. I may need a support group to hold my hand through this next year to keep me from taking over.

 

I gave my son the same options. He wants me to pick what I think is best for him because I seem to get what he loves 95% of the time anyway and he said I've introduced him to many loves that he would have never picked on his own. (note-my daughter could say opposite that I have made her hate many things she would have loved simply because it was my idea.) He said he was fine doing "more" because he has different goals.

 

 

PS: I recommend the book Strong Willed or Dreamer .

Edited June 16, 2011 by AuntPol

[Jenny in Florida]

This is what my daughter and I have compromised on:

 

3 hours:

 

Thank you so much for sharing that schedule. I'm wondering how the "do this for a certain amount of time" thing is working out for your daughter?

 

We found a few years ago that assigning tasks instead of time worked better for my son, because otherwise I had to spend every minute of the day standing over him to make sure he was actually being productive during the assigned time. But I'm a little flummoxed about how that's going to work if I'm not making defined assignments? So, I was considering assigning by time. But I'm having trouble believing it would work.

 

 

PS: I recommend the book Strong Willed or Dreamer .

 

Ha! The brief description did sound an awful lot like a young man I know . . .

 

I put it on my PaperbackSwap wish list. Thanks!

[Jenny in Florida]

Ok - back, nice and cool.

Gaps. Funny how they mostly show up when my children have to learn something they don't want to learn. That is one of the problems with unschooling, I think. The skills needed to learn something one wants to learn seem to differ from the skills needed to learn something one is not really interested in learning for its own sake. And yet, that is actually a valuable skill if one is planning on going to college for something like engineering, something where there is lots of less interesting information that one has to aquire in order to get to the more interesting things. That is one gap that I think shows up.

 

Thanks again!

 

I'm wondering, I guess, whether a kiddo who's been schooled somewhat more formally for most of his time would find the same kinds of gaps?

 

For example, my son has used textbooks and has taken a number of online classes. (He'll probably continue to take one or two a year, too.) So, he's had experience doing "school-ish" tasks. He hasn't yet had to take notes, but that's on my list of things to cover.

 

Memorization just kind of happens around here, because I'm raising theatre nerds. They memorize lines and song lyrics and those kinds of things all year. (In fact, we've found that setting information to music is one of the best ways to remember it.)

 

I guess I'm kind of hoping that, with a foundation of a few years of more traditional homeschooling, he can have some freedom to explore now without missing too much of that stuff?

[Nan in Mass]

We have a sort of four part schedule. One part is the work he does with me. I don't have to worry about whether he is working hard or not because I am sitting next to him. One part is the independent projects he does during school. I get lots of say in how he does them (or rather, how he documents them) but he is motivated to work on these so he does them without me watching him. One part is the independent projects he does on his own time. I have nothing to do with these except to suddenly be asked how to bend that expensive plexiglass or why he keeps blowing his capacitor and to suggest how he can get the info if I can't answer (often a matter of calling my parents). The last part is homework. This is things like reading, a math problem set, a Latin excersize, or a rough draft. He has to do that on his own in the evening. He can be as inefficient as he likes, but I get upset when 9 pm approaches and he hasn't even started yet because I know that I am going to have to deal with his crossness the next day if he stays up late. This is a problem I haven't figured out how to solve. The rest of the day goes pretty smoothly, though. We sort of have an agreement that he will work hard during school if I try to make school as efficient as possible and don't drag it out past a certain time.

-Nan

[JennW in SoCal]

Jenny, Nan, Aunt Pol, and KarenAnne -- I have only quickly skimmed what y'all have written, so I'm either repeating or off on my own tangent. But I'm right there with you.

 

I wanted to chime in with the benefits of letting a motivated teen mostly read for his education, being more hands off and unschoolish. What you describe, Jenny, of listening to audio books on long drives, and your ds mucking about with PVC pipes -- it is learning, and it is valuable. Even in high school, formal school time in my house has always been brief. By formal time I mean math, a bit of grammar and foreign language, and logic. Reading, projects and internships, visiting museums and seeing plays and discussing everything is simply what we do as a family, and it happens to be a huge part of my children's education. I gave writing assignments which they could do when they wanted during the week, and usually it would be late Sunday night. They've been typical teens, too, and have wasted plenty of time on video games over the years!

 

I haven't worried about study skills. We did a bit of note taking while watching Teaching Company DVDs, but only a bit. My youngest ds told me the other night that he is glad he wasn't burned out on studying and test taking throughout high school. The kids in his classes are fried and jaded about school, they don't care and they certainly aren't better prepared. College classes have been, to him, a delightful treat. He figured out quickly how to study for tests, and has gotten some of the top grades in his classes. Shoot, he came out of the ACT last weekend talking about how interesting the science and reading sections were, wishing he had had more time to really focus on it instead of having to rush and answer the questions.

 

Not every college expects homeschool students to fit inside the same box as every other high school student. The big state schools are more rigid, but small liberal arts colleges just want to know how a homeschool student challenged himself in high school, how he or she took advantage of the unique opportunities in homeschooling. Of course they need the outside tests to verify college readiness, and a transcript needs to have course work summed up in a form that is quick to peruse. You can submit a portfolio and book list, though, and use the essays for the student to sell himself. There are many non-traditional colleges that are quite happy with non-traditional students.

 

I'm always so happy to see others post about their non-traditional school choices!!

[Nan in Mass]

I'm guessing here, totally guessing, but I think you probably will be ok in that case. The whole theatre thing is drastically different than my family. We are sieve brained and overly good at compensating for that in real life. I can't imagine ever remembering any history so I have never tried to get mine to memorize any of it. Now you can be horrified. Sigh. If I were you, I would do this: I would promise a year of at least half unschooling, but with requirements as to documentation and allowing you some input into the sources (so you can try to keep pushing the reading level up). At the end of each year, try having him take notes on a high school or college textbook, something that is content heavy like science or history, and have him answer the questions. See if he can do a reasonable job and see how long it takes him. If he does a bad job or struggles or takes forever, then you will know that he's getting behind in those textbook skills and you can work on them. The problem is that there is quite a gap between early high school level skills and college level skills, one that can sneak up on you. As long as you keep checking, then you should be ok. Meanwhile, you can keep working on the math, research, reading, and writing skills. I'd also make sure he could read a non-textbook about science or history and understand where the emphasis was and what the main points of the chapter were, without all that textbook formatting designed to make that obvious. Mine got caught up in the details they were most interested in and missed the main points. I had to make them label each paragraph with a one word topic and then look at the proportions. I had to teach them to summarize something like that by writing an abstract of it. None of this was apparent from just discussing it with them. They could do that very interestingly. It wasn't until I began asking school-ish sorts of questions that their inability to do this showed. Remember that I have one who is wired differently and two who are engineering types. All three are notorious for struggling with academic skills that other types of people find easy.

-Nan

[Nan in Mass]

Thanks, Jenn.

The question I have is whether there are any non-traditional engineering schools. Ok, I know some of the tiptop ones are, but I'm not sure my future engineer is tiptop. I think he is more ordinary than that.

-Nan

[Jenny in Florida]

We have a sort of four part schedule. One part is the work he does with me. I don't have to worry about whether he is working hard or not because I am sitting next to him.

 

I've always sat next to mine, too. And it's never stopped him from dawdling over things he doesn't want to do. Staring off into space can take up a LOT of his day, if I don't keep watch and re-direct.

 

He has to do that on his own in the evening. He can be as inefficient as he likes, but I get upset when 9 pm approaches and he hasn't even started yet because I know that I am going to have to deal with his crossness the next day if he stays up late. This is a problem I haven't figured out how to solve. The rest of the day goes pretty smoothly, though. We sort of have an agreement that he will work hard during school if I try to make school as efficient as possible and don't drag it out past a certain time.

 

See, that would work for a reasonable person, wouldn't you think?

 

That's why we switched to assigning by task several years ago. The thinking (and the explanation I gave him) was that it gave him control over how long he had to work. If he worked efficiently and got through his assignments quickly, the rest of the day was his. I never assigned extra just to keep him working longer.

 

At first, this worked really well. But, somewhere along the way, I think he got bored and just went back to the old habits, even though he was mostly spiting himself.

 

We tried the homework thing, too, with not a lot more success and all the same problems. We would just end up with him staying up too late, still not getting the work done, having extra to do in the morning, never getting any family time, falling farther and farther beind . . .

 

It became just one more thing I had to argue about and enforce. And then we were right back to the same problem: I can coerce compliance but not learning.

 

What I'm considering is something like the following:

 

- Institute a stricter routine of getting out of bed reliably each day and moving efficiently through breakfast and getting dressed. My daughter suggested making a rule that anyone who isn't up and ready to eat during a certain window has to make his or her own breakfast, and I suspect that will be a motivator for him.

 

- Do work for his online Spanish class.

 

- Work on English (lit and comp) and math with me. He would also work on any writing assignments for the week and maybe assigned independent reading during this time.

 

- Lunch break. He makes his own lunch and likes to read while he eats. So, this ends up taking a good hour.

 

- After lunch, he would be free to work on his independent subjects: science, history and geography until it is time to leave for lessons and activities. (Next year, he'll be taking three dance classes and one in musical theatre. He also sings with a boychoir and show choir and takes private voice lessons. And much of the time he has evening rehearsals for shows in the evening.) This would include reading those library books I mentioned earlier, watching documentaries, possibly some online research if I can find a way to feel sure he's being productive and working on whatever projects he's chosen for that week.

 

I think the rule might be that he needs to accomplish something for each of the three subjects before knocking off for the day. And I'll probably not allow TV or computer time until late in the afternoon, no matter when he claims to be "finished."

 

He took piano lessons and then pipe organ lessons for a total of four years before dropping that in favor of voice. Lately, he's been playing around on the piano again, sounding out songs and working on some simple sheet music. I've told him that, if he works on that stuff with one of the "teach yourself to play piano" books we have sitting in the bench for three hours per week, I'll award him a half credit at the end of the year. So, that would go in the afternoon block, too, probably.

 

Does that sound workable? Or at least worth a try?

[AuntPol]

Thank you so much for sharing that schedule. I'm wondering how the "do this for a certain amount of time" thing is working out for your daughter?

 

We found a few years ago that assigning tasks instead of time worked better for my son, because otherwise I had to spend every minute of the day standing over him to make sure he was actually being productive during the assigned time. But I'm a little flummoxed about how that's going to work if I'm not making defined assignments? So, I was considering assigning by time. But I'm having trouble believing it would work.

 

 

 

The time is not totally set in stone. There is a lot of flexibility. If reading takes her 20 minutes AND she is comprehending, that's fine. If she completes a day's lesson in under 30 minutes, that's great!!! I gave times as a guideline for her to gauge what is an appropriate expectation. Trust me this child would have no problem telling me she read the books, did the math, Greek, projects, etc all in 30 minute (total) a day for weeks on end and then throw together some piddly thing as a "project" and be totally surprised by the bad grade she receives. What I've told her is that if she is not consistently spending less than 30 minutes on a subject (especially if it's under 20 minutes on a regular basis) then perhaps she is not challenging herself.

[Corraleno]

I haven't worried about study skills. We did a bit of note taking while watching Teaching Company DVDs, but only a bit. My youngest ds told me the other night that he is glad he wasn't burned out on studying and test taking throughout high school. The kids in his classes are fried and jaded about school, they don't care and they certainly aren't better prepared. College classes have been, to him, a delightful treat. He figured out quickly how to study for tests, and has gotten some of the top grades in his classes.

I think this is a really important point, and a POV that is rarely represented here. Some kids may need years of formal grammar and years of writing weekly essays in order to learn to write well — but there are other kids for whom this may be totally unnecessary. Some kids need tons of repetition and review to learn math and for other kids that approach would make them hate math forever. Sometimes I see people post things like "Well, all those years of Writing Tales and WWE and [whatever] have finally paid off, because now in 7th grade my DS can write a decent paragraph." It's just assumed that all those years of struggle are what created the success, when it's quite possible that the child would have had exactly the same result simply by waiting until he was ready. The same applies to learning to use a textbook, or take notes, or tolerate a boring class. Maybe some kids really do need to start practicing those skills in 6th grade in order to be ready for college, but many (like Jenn's son) don't, and for some kids it will just end up totally turning them off.

 

Jackie

[ma23peas]

Ah! I see you have hit the teen apathy schooling blues! :)

 

All of our kids are different, and our parenting is different, what I do for mine may not fit yours but if something helps, glad it does! :)

 

1. One thing lacking with my children when we hit 8th grade and up (mine are entering 10th, 8th, 7th this year) was competition...meaning simply, they were not 'impressed' by their ability to make an 'A' on their assignments...so what? They actually like a setting where they are compared against their peers. I liken it to a video game....it's fun for awhile to play alone, but your skills and desire grow from being able to play others and gain knowledge from their experiences to improve. So, I sought out avenues to provide this. I found a science class that does a year's worth in 6 months..they get labs, they're in a class with 15 peers and they worked 10x harder in this class than some of our other courses at home..hmm. :001_huh: I volunteered to start a writing class and had 23 students (2 classes) this past year, I was AMAZED at the growth of all of their writing styles and I attribute it to the 'class' aspect...it was new to many of them and they really thrived on the class discussion times. I am so pumped up about this next year and putting in loads of hours of prep, because the more I am prepared and give them 'meaty' lessons, the more they respond...it's not me, it's the dynamics of a class setting...

 

2. I used to try (heck, I think every year I sit and schedule out their 'hours' just to show them how feasible it is to get work done) to schedule out hours/half hours for subjects. Honestly, I only have three kids, but Mondays we have scouts, Tuesdays we have speech and debate, dance classes Tues/Wed nights, Science classes Thursday/Friday, writing classes Tuesdays....it's just crazy once school 'starts'...so we have opted to do 4 subjects daily throughout the year...

 

Fall: Grammar/Composition/Literature (count this as one subject), Science, Language, Debate

 

Winter/Spring: Math, History, Government/Economics, Logic

 

Summer: Math, Handwriting (yes, we are still doing exercises to clean it up! The girls can type 90+ words a minute and question why they need to write, but I take it fairly seriously....they don't mind and 3 months dedicated to it can really impact their print!), Languages (we do Latin and a foreign language so we use this time to catch up on both)

 

Some years the subjects change..but they like having only 4 subjects to do and we have more time to 'discuss' them as a family and focus on them..throughout the year they are constantly knocking off books on their reading list so we sometimes pick one to do aloud.

 

I have just found that when you try to squeeze in 6-7 subjects every day for 8-9 months..there comes a point (reasonably so) where you or the student will start questioning 'why?'....it does become a checking off the box scenario, and we want to grow that love of learning, not squash it..

 

Lastly, teens hit roads where they just would rather not do anything, days like that we get our hands busy busy busy, not with book work, but with hard labor outside...we all join in, washing fences for 6 hours, mucking the stalls and hauling hay...anything to give the brain a break but still be productive...those days really help us all return to the books with a sigh of relief that our muscles can rest! :)

[Nan in Mass]

Yes, it does. I also say things like, "If you do such and such and such and such, I will give you half a credit and we will put it on your transcript." There have been lots of things that I have wanted him to learn and that we have worked on that haven't counted for anything. We just do them. Numbers of credits doesn't seem a problem in the end. I wanted to remind you about that in case it helps with things like world religions. There are things along those lines that I want my children to work on but not so enough for a full half credit. If I can count them towards something else, I do, but otherwise, I don't worry about it.

 

I have no advice about the dawdling. All I can say is that just because he is unproductive this year doesn't mean that every year will be like that. We have more productive years and less productive years. If you figure anything out, let me know GRIN. You can try looking at the book That Crumpled Paper Was Due Last Week (or something like that) when it comes to teaching organizing skills. It seems like a workable system.

 

-Nan

[Corraleno]

We're pretty interest-led, although I wouldn't call us unschoolers. I choose the "required" subjects (math, history, science, foreign language, and reading) and the kids choose the focus and the materials. Here is DS's schedule for next fall:

 

MATH: I have an entire shelf of texts and other resources for these and DS can choose the ones he likes best. I do give the assignments, though (e.g., one chapter, or one lesson and all odd problems, or whatever). Math usually takes about an hour.

 

FOREIGN LANGUAGE. DS asked a few months ago to switch to Attic Greek — not an easy choice for a dyslexic! But he really wants to be able to read Greek literature and history in Greek, so he's very motivated and is working much harder than he ever did with Spanish. He's currently doing at least 30 minutes/day, 6 days/wk, which will ramp up to at least an hour/day, probably more, when his online course starts in August.

 

HISTORY. We're moving through history chronologically, but DS chooses the pace, the focus, and the materials. He's still obsessed with all things Greek and has watched most of the Teaching Co courses and read lots of books. He's particularly interested in warfare and weapons and the history of science, so we have a lot of specialist books in those areas, as well as a shelf full of general reference works on the classical world. He also pursues lots of mini-research projects, like researching the Persian Empire when he was watching the TC course on the Greek & Persian Wars. He'll probably still be doing Rome when fall semester starts, but I think we'll be starting the Middle Ages by spring. I don't require written work for history but we have extensive discussions. (I posted about about using TC courses to model the analysis, organization, and synthesis of information here.) He does an hour/day of history, which might be 2 TC lectures, or one lecture and 30 minutes of reading, or an hour of reading. He often spends more than that, by his own choice. He also does some projects (he's currently designing and trying to build a specific type of Greek ballista, and he and DH are building a model of a Roman warship), but these are his own choice and not anything I've assigned.

 

SCIENCE. This spring he was really into freshwater organisms and ecosystems, and we still have a aquarium full of critters he's caught in the river and likes to study, ranging from algae and protists to fish and crayfish. He knows more about planarians than anyone really needs to know, lol. He's even the "proud owner" (his words) of three different species of leeches! He has also set up a self-sustaining vivarium with a toad, plants, and reproducing populations of insects like woodlice and darkling beetles. He does lots of microscope work, specimen sketching, experiments, online and book research, virtual dissections with Froguts, etc.

 

This summer he's doing geology & paleontology, including a few weeks on a paleo dig in July and an intensive field geology course he begged me to sign him up for in September. He's also just started watching the first of two TC courses on geology and we have a ton of geology documentaries on DVD or the DVR. In the fall he wants to do physics, so he'll watch some TC physics courses & documentaries, read his choice of "living books," and do experiments — I bought him a bunch of Supercharged Science kits, which come with DVD instructions in case DH doesn't get as involved as he's promised, lol. For science I pretty much let him do his thing; he loves science and doesn't need to be pushed or reminded. He generally spends at least 5 hrs/wk on science, although that may be two 3-hr days, or a long weekend, or something other than 1 hr/day.

 

LANGUAGE ARTS. This is the heretical part, lol: we don't really "do" LA, although DS is currently taking an awesome intensive grammar course with Lukeion in preparation for the Greek course this fall. It's funny, engaging, and very visual, and DS is not only "getting" it, he's actually enjoying it. Generally DS reads what he wants to read, which currently averages about 500 pages/wk of fiction and anywhere from 50-100 pages or so of nonfiction. It took a long time to undo the damage from PS, which turned him from a reluctant reader into a nonreader, so I'm thrilled that he's now such an avid reader and I don't want to ruin that. For "literature" we have a stack of classical books that he can choose from; he's currently rereading the Iliad. We've done the Odyssey and some Aristophanes as a read-aloud, and he's read some of Pliny's Natural History, and bits of Herodotus and Thucydides whenever there's a reference to them in a TC history course. In the fall, I'll add a spelling program because his spelling stinks (dyslexia), and we'll drop grammar.

 

As for writing... he just told me a couple of weeks ago that he wants to write a novel. :svengo: He used to love making up stories and illustrating them and when he was in 3rd grade he wrote and illustrated an amazing story called The Prince of Amphibia. But the never-ending narration and dictation in school made him hate writing, so he stopped. He's written about 10 pages of his "novel" so far, and has thought through a lot of the plot/characters/setting. I would love for him to do NaNoWriMo this fall, but if he's not up for it I won't push it. However he wants to record his story, whether it ends up being a novel, a graphic novel, a short story, a storyboard for a video, or whatever, is fine with me — he can learn about plot, characterization, organization, sentence structure, etc., no matter what format it's in.

 

ART/OTHER: One of the things he did last year, completely on his own, was invent a "civilization" — complete with an alphabet and number system, mythology & religion, clothing, housing, weapons, a map of their settlements, etc. He has a sketchbook filled with his ideas, and he's even "evolving" them from forest-based hunter/gatherers to beginning agriculturalists (complete with changes to their mythology, social structure, etc.) This has actually led to other projects, including the novel described above (which is set in his fictitious civilization), and an interest in programming (see below).

 

PROGRAMMING. DH mentioned to him one day, when he was drawing in his civilization sketchbook, that he could use those ideas to create an interactive 3D world, which DS thought was a fantastic idea. So he plans to use Alice 3.0 (which now includes lots of SIMS figures and environments, allows programming directly in Java, and allows output to youtube), plus DH wants him to learn Maya and 3D StudioMax in order to create customized characters and environments.

 

There won't be any particular assignments or time requirements for art or programming, he can just do those when he wants. I've found that when he's allowed to pursue his interests, I don't really need to nag him or try to keep him on task; he's really into what he's doing and does it because he's wants to, not because I require it. Win/win.

 

Jackie

Edited June 17, 2011 by Corraleno

[cathmom]

At a certain point, also, they have to develop their own motivation. My oldest procrastinated a lot, but somewhere around halfway through junior year, he realized that if he didn't buckle down and get stuff done, he would be stuck at home another year. Since he was already going to be nearly 19 at the beginning of freshman year of college, this lit a fire under his behind and he got it done. Even SWB said that her oldest got way more done the last 2 years of high school than the first 2.

[LanaTron]

By the end of the school year this year, we were all pretty miserable, and the kids were asking if they could go to public school next year. :sad: It wasn't just about the particular work we were doing, it had a lot to do with where I was putting my time and energy, which wasn't always our home school.

 

At any rate, what I heard from them is that they need something to be different. So I decided that the subjects that we are going to focus on this year are Math, English, Music, and Foreign Language (they do French), and I picked those because IMO, they provide the most bang-for-the-buck as far as developing the mind. Secondarily to that are science and history. I haven't decided just yet exactly how it's all going to play out next year--that's what I'll be working on while everyone is at Scout camp next week (even dh). :D But you can bet I'll probably post my plans at some point to get feedback.

[Jenny in Florida]

All I can say is that just because he is unproductive this year doesn't mean that every year will be like that. We have more productive years and less productive years. If you figure anything out, let me know GRIN. You can try looking at the book That Crumpled Paper Was Due Last Week (or something like that) when it comes to teaching organizing skills. It seems like a workable system.

 

-Nan

 

Thanks, Nan.

 

The thing is that it's not just this year. He's pretty much always been like this. It's just that, when he was younger, I could force the issue a little more. I also just kept hoping that, eventually, we'd iron out the kinks and he'd settle into the program.

 

Never worked. In fact, he's gotten more and more compliant while simultaneously tuning out more and more.

 

I've tried all different kinds of approaches over the years, with startlingly and depressingly similar results.

 

It's not even that he's disorganized. He can focus just fine when he's interested or when he knows he needs to do so. He turns in his work for the online classes. His teachers like him, and he gets consistently good grades.

 

He just doesn't absorb or remember any of it once he's past the test or assignment.

[Nan in Mass]

Well, having done something similar with my education (forgetting it as fast as I learned it), I can tell you that it isn't the end of the world. I would venture to guess that a good deal of students take this approach. I'm not saying I don't sympathize or that something else wouldn't be more desirable. I'm just trying to reassure you that it probably is pretty normal. Normal isn't what you hoped for, I'm sure, but with careful management, it probably won't be fatal. I would plan any SAT2 or AP testing very carefully so that there isn't a gap of time between the class and the test.

It sounds like you can take two approaches with the subjects that don't interest him - you can make them as brief and efficient as possible to leave more room for the things that do interest him, or you can try to make them more appealing. I haven't been very successful with the more-appealing approach. All the appealing things just look like more work and more time to my children. I've had much more success with the brief approach. You can try farming them out. That might make them easier for you both. You won't have to look at the minimalist job he is doing and he might be inspired to put a bit more effort into an outside class. You can try doubling up, too. We're doing history in French. That is being very efficient. How is math going? Can he write an essay?

-Nan

[AuntPol]

Thanks, Nan.

 

The thing is that it's not just this year. He's pretty much always been like this. It's just that, when he was younger, I could force the issue a little more. I also just kept hoping that, eventually, we'd iron out the kinks and he'd settle into the program.

 

Never worked. In fact, he's gotten more and more compliant while simultaneously tuning out more and more.

 

I've tried all different kinds of approaches over the years, with startlingly and depressingly similar results.

 

It's not even that he's disorganized. He can focus just fine when he's interested or when he knows he needs to do so. He turns in his work for the online classes. His teachers like him, and he gets consistently good grades.

 

He just doesn't absorb or remember any of it once he's past the test or assignment.

 

You've described my daughter to the T. She's always been this way so it's not a teen thing (Mine isn't even a teen yet). She's organized. She does whatever is on her list. It just doesn't stick unless it is something she wants it to stick. Mine can't even keep it long enouigh for a test.

[Jenny in Florida]

Well, having done something similar with my education (forgetting it as fast as I learned it), I can tell you that it isn't the end of the world. I would venture to guess that a good deal of students take this approach. I'm not saying I don't sympathize or that something else wouldn't be more desirable. I'm just trying to reassure you that it probably is pretty normal. Normal isn't what you hoped for, I'm sure, but with careful management, it probably won't be fatal.

 

Oh, I did it, too, with anything I wasn't interested in remembering.

 

I realized the other day that I literally don't remember taking algebra. I must have, because I do remember dropping out of geometry. But algebra is a total blank.

 

But the reason we're homeschooling is so that our kids don't have to settle for that kind of education. We're homeschooling in large part so that we have the opportunity to help them get the education they deserve, a much better one that we had.

 

 

How is math going? Can he write an essay?

 

Math is fine, mostly. He's very talented but doesn't love the subject. He really enjoyed geometry, did well last year and aced the section of this year's class the reviewed the concepts. He's been taking honors-level math with FLVS for the last few years and gets consistently good grades. Then, anything he didn't find useful or interesting has to get re-learned the next time he encounters it.

 

He writes pretty well. My degree is in English, so my standards are pretty high. I don't think what he writes is stellar, but he's averaging over 100% in his online class. Literature and comp he'll be doing with me next year. We're focusing on Greek mythology, because he loves it. That's one subject about which I'm not worried.

[Jenny in Florida]

You've described my daughter to the T. She's always been this way so it's not a teen thing.

 

Mine, too.

[Jenny in Florida]

We're pretty interest-led, although I wouldn't call us unschoolers. I choose the "required" subjects (math, history, science, foreign language, and reading) and the kids choose the focus and the materials.

 

Thanks for the details! It's encouraging to see someone having success with a similar approach.

 

I think this is where we're heading, too, except that I'm retaining "control" of math, English and foreign language, at least for the first year of this experiment.

 

If things go well next year, I expect we'll give him even more freedom/responsibility after that.

[Jenny in Florida]

Supporting our kids in being lifetime learners is our highest educational priority.

 

That's what we've always said, too. And it's one of the primary reasons I'm looking to try something new.

 

 

...but so far all my kids have been intellectuals. In one way or another they all love learning for its own sake... read literature for pleasure, find at least two branches of science entrancing, get wrapped up in history... they study hard and have absorbed many of our goals as their own. So I have never had to really test my convictions for long.

 

Both of mine are like that, too. They're huge readers, think museums and Shakespeare are fun, research things that interest them, etc. My daughter always craved structure and outside validation. But I'm thinking my son might need to make his own way a little bit more.

[Nan in Mass]

Ok, so his basic skills are fine, right? What more does he need for college? He has to know how to read well, write well, have the math through calc down, be able to make himself study, know how to take notes and digest readings, lectures, and textbooks, to answer textbook/teacher questions, to take a test, know about advisors and add/drop and signing up for classes, know how to follow a syllabus, how to deal with college administration, get help using tutoring and office hours, manage his time and his property, keep himself and his space semi-presentable, feed himself well enough not to run out of energy or get scurvy, and know how to not do anything stupid with his computer, drugs, alcohol, cars, or gambling, and know how not to do anything stupid if he goes off exploring with the outing club or clubbing in the city. That is about all I can think of. I guess it would be nice if he were familiar with the basic forms of writing, MLA format, how to research something, how to design an experiment, how to keep a lab notebook, and how to use science equipment. But often basic science classes and comp 1 cover those things. He has to have stuff on his transcript that meets the college requirements. With your daughter, you pretty much covered those things as efficiently as possible before 12, didn't you? If you could magically give him an adult's ability to manage his time and his life, do you think he would academically survive a lower level college now? I suspect the answer would be yes. And if that is the case, I don't think you have anything to worry about. I think maybe his not great abilities in the organizing and self-discipline department might be disguising his academic skills? Maybe? Anyway, if all that is the case, then you have plenty of time to work on teaching him to teach himself whatever he wants to learn, adult-style. It is just a matter of the two of you deciding if you want to cover those college requirements in a short-but-boring manner or in a longer-but-more-interesting manner, and that will depend on whether the college requirements lie within his sphere of interest or not.

 

This being June, I am now assessing how successful my son's year was. I may not be able to tell you yet whether he can manage college math and science classes yet, but I can tell you that he has taken over teaching himself a number of things. They aren't things like history, but they are things that are going to be very useful for an engineer, like how a computer works. He is good at researching things on the internet, finding forums and asking for help, and finding real life people and asking for help. He is surprisingly persistent. He starts with a question and then picks a project for himself that will teach him the answer. The whole thing is more internet and less library based than I would like, but the adults around us are doing exactly what he is doing when they need to know something. The internet sources he has shown me have been nice reliable ones. He is going deeply enough into technical knowledge that the unreliable sources aren't very satisfactory, if they exist at all. Meanwhile, he has been pretty cooperative about working on writing and note taking with me, enough to allay my fears in that department, and about plugging through histoire/géographie textbook. He worried me by stalling in math. He read a number of adult tradebooks in science, learned to use a microscope, and his ability to design and write up a science experiment improved. I assumed (and I think I was right) that my son would absorb a fair amount of basic science knowledge and terminology just by reading popular adult science books (non-text books) and that appears to have been true. I required him to read one a month or so. He read some classics and some scifi and discussed and wrote about them. He learned a bit of Japanese and went to Japan for a month and spent some time with a Native American man. It was all pretty project based, but then he is a more hands-on person than an academic person, so that is not really a surprise. It turns out that he self-educates in the areas that interest him without any help from me or any need for me even to schedule time for him to do it. I only need to schedule time if it is something that is lower on his priority list because otherwise his current main interest will suck up all his time. Anyway, I am just trying to give you a sense of what his half-unschooling year looked like. Except for the math, it was pretty successful. There were things I wanted to get to that we didn't but no more than the years that we've done entirely in a more regular-school fashion.

 

It occurred to me that if you are worried about missing college skills, you could read one of the books about how to succeed in college. Your library probably has a few in the how-to-study section. That might give you some idea of what he needs to have. Between that and a few of the SAT2 test prep books, I think you could get a fair idea of the skills involved or not involved. I pretty much told myself that science content-wise it didn't really matter what we covered because my son was going to take CC science classes. You could say the same thing for AP classes.

 

Hopefully something in all that was reassuring.

-Nan

Edited June 21, 2011 by Nan in Mass

[Jenny in Florida]

Ok, so his basic skills are fine, right? What more does he need for college? He has to know how to read well, write well, have the math through calc down, be able to make himself study, know how to take notes and digest readings, lectures, and textbooks, to answer textbook/teacher questions, to take a test, know about advisors and add/drop and signing up for classes, know how to follow a syllabus, how to deal with college administration, get help using tutoring and office hours, manage his time and his property, keep himself and his space semi-presentable, feed himself well enough not to run out of energy or get scurvy, and know how to not do anything stupid with his computer, drugs, alcohol, cars, or gambling, and know how not to do anything stupid if he goes off exploring with the outing club or clubbing in the city. That is about all I can think of.

 

He may not have math through calculus. We'll see. But that would be the case even if he continued on a more traditional path. I think he's aiming at a liberal arts college major (probably theatre), so it shouldn't be a big problem.

 

Many of those basic skills -- following a syllabus, using textbooks, communicating with teachers, getting help or tutoring, taking tests, etc. -- are things he's learned using FLVS for the last few years. He's very social and has lots of confidence. (We used to say we needed to do something about his shyness problem, like get him some!) So, he has no problem picking up the phone and calling teachers to ask questions, a skill I'm pretty sure will translate well to a college environment.

 

Also, all these years of theatre have gotten him comfortable spending time with and working with folks of all ages and seeking information and help from adults and authority figures.

 

He likes to cook and eat. He makes his own lunch most days. We joke about how popular he'll be in college because all of his dorm buddies will be able to come to his room to eat.

 

He's young, of course. But, at least at the moment, he thinks drinking and drugs are stupid and would rather play a round or two of mini-golf than go out clubbing.

 

Now, keeping his room presentable? Ugh. To be fair, he may be slightly better about it than his sister, and she managed to get through college even so.

 

I guess it would be nice if he were familiar with the basic forms of writing, MLA format, how to research something, how to design an experiment, how to keep a lab notebook, and how to use science equipment. But often basic science classes and comp 1 cover those things.

 

Some of that writing stuff we've already covered, and some of it is on my list for the next couple of years. We've done the basic scientific method in previous years, and he's taking a high school science course this year.

 

I am slightly concerned about science, to be honest. It's not my area of expertise. However, if all else fails, he could always sign up for classes at the local science center. He's done them before and enjoyed it, and that would cover lab science, too, if necessary.

 

He has to have stuff on his transcript that meets the college requirements. With your daughter, you pretty much covered those things as efficiently as possible before 12, didn't you? If you could magically give him an adult's ability to manage his time and his life, do you think he would academically survive a lower level college now? I suspect the answer would be yes.

 

Yes, I think he'd do fine. Honestly, I was less prepared academically when I started college than he is right now.

 

My daughter had completed her high school credits by the time she left for college, but they're very different kids. She tends to learn in a very linear way, one foot in front of the other. She just does it really fast. My son, on the other hand, often looks like he's not doing anything or making any progress at all for long periods of time and then leaps forward all of a sudden one day when you're not paying attention.

 

Like the way each one started talking? My daughter said her first recognizable word at nine months. early but not shocking, and then proceeded to add to her vocabulary at a startling rate for the next couple of years. She was speaking adult-sounding complex sentences by 18 months.

 

By the time of my son's well-child check up at age two, he had not spoken a single recognizable word, not even "mama" or "dada." There was a three-month wait before we could see the only place in town our insurance would cover for an evaluation. While he was on the wait list, one day he started talking. His first word was a phrase, "What's that?" Within two weeks, he'd caught up to and surpassed "normal" for his age.

 

So, we really can't use her as a measuring stick.

 

I think maybe his not great abilities in the organizing and self-discipline department might be disguising his academic skills?

 

Well, the thing is that he's not really lacking in those skills. When something is important to him (learning lines, preparing for an audition or show, making something he promised to his church youth group, working on a Christmas present for someone, etc.), he's really great about getting it done.

 

And it's not like he's doing poorly academically. He's actually ahead and getting very good grades. (For example, he's 7th grade by age but has already taken several high school courses in which he's earned A's and B's.) He does stall and dawdle, but in the end, he's extremely good at going through the motions and getting the work done. He just hates it and doesn't learn much.

 

It is just a matter of the two of you deciding if you want to cover those college requirements in a short-but-boring manner or in a longer-but-more-interesting manner, and that will depend on whether the college requirements lie within his sphere of interest or not.

 

As of this moment, at least for next year, I think we're going to try some combination of the two approaches. Since he'll need two years of foreign language on his transcript and we haven't yet had much success with any of the programs or languages we've tried at home, next year he'll start Spanish with FLVS. I'm going to make it the first thing on his agenda every day.

 

I'm going retain "control" of English and math, at least for next year. After Spanish, he'll need to work with me for a couple of hours on those subjects.

 

I suspect Spanish and math will fall into the "just get it done" category, but I'm doing my best to make English interesting.

 

In the afternoon, he's going to work on the other four subjects: history, geography, world religions and science. We're working on putting together some kind of framework for how those get done, but he'll really have a lot of freedom to either linger or do the minimum, and I suspect he may change that for each subject from week to week or month to month as things catch his attention.

 

Anyway, I am just trying to give you a sense of what his half-unschooling year looked like. Except for the math, it was pretty successful. There were things I wanted to get to that we didn't but no more than the years that we've done entirely in a more regular-school fashion.

 

Thank you! That's very honest and encouraging. I told my husband last night that I am sure this won't go exactly as I hope. However, as long as he's doing the basics I ask of him in the morning, he could honestly sit and stare at a wall most afternoons and come out ahead, I think.

 

And I suspect that, after a few afternoons of staring at that wall, he'll get bored enough to go do something more productive.

 

Between that and a few of the SAT2 test prep books, I think you could get a fair idea of the skills involved or not involved. I pretty much told myself that science content-wise it didn't really matter what we covered because my son was going to take CC science classes. You could say the same thing for AP classes.

 

I was considering handing him a test prep book for the Human Geography AP next year. He has a friend who will be taking the class, and I wondered if it might motivate him to prep on his own.

 

We're funny about science. I usually feel like we haven't "done enough" until I write down and add up what we did do, often things we did for fun.

 

I remember one year when my daughter was younger. We'd had a lot of family stuff going on, and I hadn't been as strict about school as I normally would have been. I got to the end of the year and started assembling her portfolio and panicked when I realized that we hadn't really done science most of the year. So, I started picking through my notes, frantically trying to pull together enough to gloss over the "problem."

 

And then I just kept finding things. Like those classes she took at the nature preserve with the homeschool group? Oh yeah! And that day of workshops she attended at the local university? Right! And those kits she assembled with Dad? Of course! And the science museum membership and exhibits? Duh!

 

So, I'm actually pretty sure he'll be fine there. He's really looking forward to applying to volunteer at the science museum as soon as he's old enough, too.

 

Hopefully something in all that was reassuring.

-Nan

 

It absolutely was. Thanks!

Edited June 21, 2011 by Jenny in Florida

[Nan in Mass]

Good : )

 

I wasn't so much trying to use your daughter as a yard stick for your son as trying to show you that if your daughter could conceivably be finished at 12, you already have demonstrated that you are able to be efficient about how you cover the college requirements. The year she was nine probably didn't look exactly like the typical high schooler's freshman year. Sometimes people are worried that if they don't do everything a typical public high schooler does for classes (eight full length classes a year for four years) the student won't be ready for college. The college req's are shorter than 8x4. They are more like 4 or 5 x4. That's all. I don't see how you can go wrong, with your son's skills where they are already and your experience in covering those college req's. I was trying to say that I think you have plenty of time to learn whatever is of interest to your son.

 

I think your plan sounds very nice. I think you are wise to keep control of math and English. If you do that, farm out Spanish, and keep an eye on whether you might need to farm out science at some point, I really don't see how you can go wrong. Unless he is going into a stem major, I think you can take the same approach towards science as I took towards history. I decided that gaps and less analytical thinking and the ability to continue filling the gaps and thinking about it as an adult were better than covering it more analytically and thoroughily in high school and quickly forgetting it and avoiding history forever after. I'm not sure that would be the best approach if my children were trying to become historians, but they aren't.

 

It should be fun. It is interesting to see what they come up with on their own.

-Nan

[Julie in MN]

I never opened this thread until now, because I knew that unschooling wouldn't work with my ds. However, what a delight it's been to open this thread & read! It's actually right where I am when I evaluate teaching my youngest - balancing basics and self-discipline with true learning and developing a student who wants to learn. Thanks for all the great ideas!

 

Julie

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

My oldest dd was extremely ill her senior year. It was a very unschooling year. She read a lot of books, watched quite a few documentaries, had some good discussions with her dad and myself, wrote some short papers, and did a few Quizlet tests. She has since commented that she felt that she learned MORE that year than any other high school year because the pressure of assignments was gone. She did well her first year in college despite her ongoing illness. Her profs were impressed with her thinking, discussion, and questioning in class.

 

So, yes, go for a year of unschooling!

[Jenn in CA]

I love this. I think all homeschoolers love the idea of our children simply reading, thinking, and learning (MMV).

 

I think we're afraid to try it.

 

Especially to let the boys try it.

 

As my sig says, we use Robinson. I've had to require the books, they are not books my kids would have chosen on their own.

 

But, afterwards they have opinions, whether they like them or dislike them. So I know they are getting something.

 

I have always said that sometimes, what you get out a book is in the attempt, not in the actual getting. And I'm fine with that.

 

They are doing fine in their college classes. They are not amazing discussers-of-great-ideas. But I think they're well on their way to a nice life.